About workshops

Workshops on Neopoet are groups that meet for a certain period of time to focus on a certain aspect of poetry. Each workshop participant is asked to critique all the other poems submitted into a workshop. A workshop leader helps coordinate -- they set the agenda, give participants feedback on whether their submissions and critique are at they level expected of them, and after the workshop is over, give feedback to participants. 

To join a workshop, first find one that is of interest to you. Once you have found the right workshop (and verified that it is open -- you can find this out in the description below), you can apply to join the workshop.


Join the Neopoet online poetry workshop and community to improve as a writer, meet fellow poets, and showcase your work. Sign up, submit your poetry, and get started.

Storytelling in Verse (sempiternal)

Program description/goal: 

Description: An open ended workshop to offer the opportunity to discuss and create a completed story in verse through assisted revision.

Leader: Wesley
Moderator(s): Judyanne, Beauregard, weirdelf

Objectives: To produce over time a large work of storytelling poetry.

Level of expertise: Open to all

Subject matter: Concepts of storytelling and how they relate to verse.

Length: 
13870 days
Number of participants (limit): 
10 people
Skill level: 
Date: 
Saturday, September 29, 2012 to Thursday, September 29, 2050
Short description: 
Participants will be asked to submit poetic storytelling content that may be critiqued in a detailed fashion leading to continuous and beneficial revision.

Comments

Over the past several months I have had almost as many poets wanting to join the closed "Storytelling in Verse" shop as those who joined the first time.
Because of this, I have opened the shop with no end date in sight.
I invite anyone who wants to produce a larger poem that tells a tale to join. Here I hope together we can produce the sort of feedback that drives us to revise our work and expand it. We will discuss in this page story structure (the four basic blocks and more), character development (individual and ensemble) and more.

There is no waiting period. I hope to read participant's comments immediately, but don't hesitate to post whatever you have in whatever form it's in and we'll start hashing it out.
Welcome to The Bonfire.
wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I read the essence of this Workshop and comments by the members who joined it. All of it had the effect of an appetizer but I didn't find any submission in the stream above. Makes me wonder if the submissions to this workshop are somewhere else. Is that so?

raj (sublime_ocean)

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

Thank you William for providing the link

raj (sublime_ocean)

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

Thank you Jess for providing the link

raj (sublime_ocean)

Some of this is my fault. I've been having brutal difficulties with computers, so I've been lax at everything. I hope to rectify that soon. If you have something to submit do so and we'll talk about it. I would love the excuse to get back here.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Thanks Wesley for inspiring me to write and post something in the workshop for epic/long poems...though i appreciate your invitation, i consider my self to be still not ready for such longer version, yet I will first take a look at the submissions thus far via the link provided kindly by William and Jess and give it a shot myself if not immediately but once I am able to come up with something and have enough time and space...warm regards..

raj (sublime_ocean)

Personally, having read some of your poetry, I think you are far past merely "ready". Produce something for the workshop and don't concern yourself with its "quality". If you have never attempted anything long, anything that tells a complex story, there are a number of things you will want to know and the best way to approach them is when you have difficulties due to your ignorance. I did it the hard way- without any real help until I had some twelve thousand lines in the epic. The assistance I received here and elsewhere put me on a path to edit and it was difficult. Please feel free to use this location to discuss the methodology you can use. I'm here with information and truly enjoy sharing it.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Thank you Wesley for your encouraging words and suggestions. I will take that into account.

raj (sublime_ocean)

A great Idea and a workshop that I will follow with great interest, I have looked at your word sempiternal, and please forgive I have found a Senyru that will fit it so well..

sempiternally
my undieing love for you
sempiternally.

One of the hardest works to carry out is probably the long story type poetry or Epic. on your first workshop on long poems something went wrong with the feedback and everything went wrong from my side as the comments dried up, this was after I had rewritten it again taking out duplication etc as I pasted and copied a bit too much lol, my new poem or the most up to date one is still there after 5 months:-
2nd Rewrite Now"Changing Days" Younger Days (story telling in verse Workshop)
I hope that you can have another look at this piece when not too busy, Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

Put the piece into whatever form you want it to be seen now and submit. We'll talk about it. And don't concern yourself with my big piece. Not everyone is wired to read bulk. wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Do I look too ambitious?!
Maybe, but I won't lose any of your workshops for sure.
of course
only if I am allowed to join.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

I don't want to be a burden. Was the first work shop a prerequisite?

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

you're very welcome here, but think about what we're trying to do. We want to write a story in verse. Something that requires a bit of size. There are no prerequisites other than wanting to try. If you have an idea, put something down and submit it. We'll discuss what you have and try to lead you in a positive direction. In the meantime, your input would be invaluable. You've grown leaps, bounds and ballistic flights as a poet, so what you have to offer could only be special.
I will add you and Ian immediately and keep in mind this is a slightly different experiment. This workshop has no ending in sight, so is by nature low key and slow going.
In other words (and this goes for everyone), relax and take it easy.
wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Your words mean a lot.
I am really happy to join.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

This is being written for two reasons. One, because I'm annoyed at myself for having discovered how badly I transgressed in this manner and two, so I might save others from this disastrous end.

First of all, go read my first submissions to the workshop. It's a little ditty already posted in the past with an explanation of what I intend to do here in "Storytelling".

Go on.

I'll wait.

So now you know that I intend to continue into Part Two of my large work following the circumstances set up in "The Ana". Logically (I felt) that required a quick read of "The Ana" itself, so I knew precisely where I was (I haven't read the thing in a year). For the most part I am happy with it. It was deliberately designed to be "over the top" in a pseudo biblical fashion (Part Two will not be written that way... I could NEVER sustain it). Some of it is slightly obtuse and with great purpose, for the story has not been told. Candlewitch once asked me why I capitalized so many words in it like "Now". Well, we're talking about THE NOW. The very first Now. The Essence's Now.

Stuff like that (by the way "Cold in the first line is capitalized for reasons not explained yet, but as a hint.... the title of Part One is "Harsh", the title of Part Two is "Cold").

Enough of that.

To the problem. Many of you will consider this inconsequential. It is not. I will do myself the favor of allowing it to be evidence of continued growth, for since my last edit on "The Ana" I have actively made this change in my writing (and recently picked on Beau about it too).

In poetic meter, a preposition is NEVER accented. Period. It's ugly. Don't do it.
There are over one hundred very specific prepositions in the English language and likely a gazillion maybes. Not all of them are to be avoided when considering stress.
For example let's not worry about something like "following" or "outside" or even "past".
I am speaking of article like prepositions such as "of", "in", "on" and such. Yes, this is a case by case situation. Sometimes a sentence will allow you to blow through a preposition like those without noticing that the stress is ill laid, but not often.

The reason I bring this to the forefront?

"The Ana" is riddled with them.

It makes me want to hurl.
I will, of course, be working diligently to repair them. Why? Because I believe and therefore feel I must teach that we as writers must go forward with ETERNAL REVISION as our yard stick. Each work of worth we have made must conform with how we have improved as writers. "The Ana" at this moment does not reflect who I am as a poet, but it will.
I invite all to aid me by pointing out the flaws without bias knowing I cannot be harmed emotionally.
And beware the preposition. It is a fickle and frightening thing.
wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I have put my poem story on stream I shall be on the naughty step,
or with the others in the Dark room, but that place scares me, I hope you will be kind to me.
I must mention though that I have been talking to Killer so I guess kindness goes without saying.
I usually hire Hit men from Mother care is there a Daddy care???
Yours Little Ian

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

It is very late and tiredness grabs my mind, but I shall endeavour
I wait on a bench. (Sitting on a bench waiting)
I wait on my mom.( looking after your mom) Taking her coffee in bed ?

I'm going by my house.( yes we are visiting, but also passing)
I'm going by the road. ( moving to as if you are passing the street where I live and you are talking on the phone ??Also visiting the road where I live.
Differing accents assume many variations on meanings.

Like in England most people will say "I'm going up to London" no matter where they are.
As you say the variety is the thing that sometimes can make a poem or break it, my accent use to be Broad Wiltshire but over the years and being in the Royal Air Force the accent becomes modified to a standard English.
Must go now I sleepy, always remember that Pre positions are laid out in the rules of most Sports especially Cricket La La , Yours Sparrow..
I sent Ian.T to bed half way through lol

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

... used above I use quite comfortably. So, I'm not sure it's merely regional. Theoretically, English is the "go to" language in international diplomacy BECAUSE it is so literal. Perhaps they should be using German instead. I think English is "a wild bark" (regional: Mineral Wells, Texas: Goofy).

The line in "The Ana" that caught my eye and annoyed me first is-

"Both of / the mind / of Joss / were made

The "article like" preposition "of" being stressed sounds (to my ear) quite forced. I don't like it. After poking around, I found a lot of them and now I'm bummed. I will get over it as soon as I can fix them all, but that will take time.

Good discussion.

wesley

 

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

...l am a story teller but, I believe l'd like another "go".
Let me know,
doc.

Neopoet is "newtriffic" !
...from the heart, or a reasonable faxcimile;
david a. goodwin #{:>{)} @==

bring it on! We're running a little differently this time. Low key and long term. We have no end date. So clean up whatever you have that you want to go with and post away. We will ever so gently tear the living hell out of it. Please don't neglect the rest of us. Your instinct is sound and I for one would like to hear what you have to say on all of our submissions.
wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

...I've posted my "fish story" poem in and didn't click on the workshop. Then, I went back and edited it in. Does that stop it from being officially added to the works for the claSS?
Please advise.
Sincerely,
doc.

Neopoet is "newtriffic" !
...from the heart, or a reasonable faxcimile;
david a. goodwin #{:>{)} @==

I'll have a quick look now and a longer when I get back from work. wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

my bad. You're entered into the workshop. Please go back and edit once more. It will enter in now. wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

...thanx for your help.
doc.

Neopoet is "newtriffic" !
...from the heart, or a reasonable faxcimile;
david a. goodwin #{:>{)} @==

I am partial to storytelling in verse.

---------------------------------------------------------

Jonathan Moore

Annoying the world, one person at a time

(Group discounts available)

I will add you post haste and hope to see a submission soon. wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Even though this workshop is low key, please recall it is still a workshop. Not only is everyone REQUIRED to post regular growth on his or her tale, but let us not forget each other. We are here to critique that we may grow. Please read ALL submissions and comment accordingly. Remember that as we help each other, we help ourselves.
wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I'd love to join this one too.

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

so...

Let's all of us please pay attention to everyone AS THEY EDIT. This is theoretically a growth process, so there should be a great deal of changing and adding going on. Be careful not to read someone's tale, critique it and never return. I hope that the Dashboard warns us when someone has edited a piece in "Storytelling", but let's keep a weather eye out all the same.
I have just posted changes and additions in my piece. They replace what was previously there. Do not practice the habit we had of some in the first workshop where revisions were posted separately as a new work. Please overwrite what you have done knowing that if we wish to compare we can click on the revisions icon and do so.
Now go give me hell over my alterations.
wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

The great Stone Mason is now at its resting place of 106 stanzas.
It will soon be too long for me to read as my short term memory is not good, now where were we ??Oh! yes I have updated my write, if the piece is to be expanded it will now be able to wait till I find out where Cata is..
Yours Bramm. E. Lieve

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

Go off and ponder history. wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

...but, I'm still wondering if we can have an epic poem that still, rhymes. Wouldn't want to offend your "minions", if you will.
Please advise,
doc.

Neopoet is "newtriffic" !
...from the heart, or a reasonable faxcimile;
david a. goodwin #{:>{)} @==

Go for it.
wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

...if you care to comment.
doc.

Neopoet is "newtriffic" !
...from the heart, or a reasonable faxcimile;
david a. goodwin #{:>{)} @==

so as i get notification of any updates :)
love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

[smiles]

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

Can I join? Puhleeze?

Ian

TIME FLIES LIKE AN ARROW, BUT FRUIT FLIES LIKE A BANANA

Ian,

I hope you are well. Work and life issues have delayed my travel plans but I am hoping to get over the pond in 2013, barring the end of the world, of course.

---------------------------------------------------------

Jonathan Moore

Annoying the world, one person at a time

(Group discounts available)

Bring it on. wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

what I am doing to my story in this workshop, as the pieces are so long.
I am putting any additions at the beginning of the piece, so that anyone that has read the rough draft, can see the changes and aditions without having to go through it all again.
Then when the piece is near completed they can be removed and the story read as it should be,
Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

I went to comment on a piece the other day and realised that it had been broken up into multiple posts, which rather modified my comments, observations, and suggestions.

I see Ian T. has indicated he'll be editing and putting his newer stanza up top, and that's a solution. For me, I want to read the piece in order every time as I find it easier to feel if a poem is coherent if I can read it from start to finish.

Lastly, length is not a virtue any more than is rhyming or meter. Including any of these without the story justifying it is a way to kill the story.

As an example:

I was born one day,
it was easier than dying;
for a while.

Is a story with no meter, rhyme, or significant length. Each time you want to add a line to your piece, make certain it exists for a compelling reason, not just to fill space.

---------------------------------------------------------

Jonathan Moore

Annoying the world, one person at a time

(Group discounts available)

Yes I agree with your way of saying things on this..
On my long piece I am only going to insert something like the Hanging gardens of Babylon, and each insertion will be a complete Item as each will be a building process carried out in a specific area.
The lighthouse of Alexandria and the gardens are two new bits, these are just extra for the journey of Cata..
I have also incorporated them in the main piece for continuity now my task is to sort Rhyme and meter for all the Stanzas I have in that story (HELP)..
Thanks for your input as usual it is top rate, Take care out there and it is great to have you back, Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

Isn't it going to be tough re-reading a long poem to look for changes that might be subtle? It's something that bothers me a bit. Could we find a solution to it, say the poet adds notes to the final words section describing the changes made.

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

I, for one, keep a daily log of changes and publish only the aggregate of those changes, but I would not suggest this as a necessity, it's just something I find useful.

I believe noting changes and modifications in the LAST WORDS section is a great idea.

---------------------------------------------------------

Jonathan Moore

Annoying the world, one person at a time

(Group discounts available)

I've decided to withdraw as I feel it a little tougher than what I have expected. I don't want to abandon my little pieces which I really did since I have started working on this lengthy one plus I really need some more experience which I hope I can get from dear judy in her coming workshop about more fixed verse .Hope I am not offending anyone starting with dear Wesley as a leader and all who commented on my first submissions as I am going to delete them . I shall give this a few hours to make sure no one objects the deletion and of course I am not going anywhere, I shall keep an eye here and read everyone's and give comments whenever possible.
Thanks all . Appreciate your kindness and understanding

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

I don't believe you need worry about offending people. Life is bumpy, we adapt or spend our days angry and bitter and if I have to be angry and bitter, I want it to be because the price of Guinness was raised.

Good luck.

---------------------------------------------------------

Jonathan Moore

Annoying the world, one person at a time

(Group discounts available)

Please don't delete them. Anything added is precious. And besides, this workshop is sempiternal, so you can come in once in a while to add something you've learned to the piece. I think that's the point: ongoing work, not a one time effort.

Stick around and come when you feel comfortable.

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

Please stay as your work is needed as it carries a slight change to what we are use to and is so welcome in this workshop, I need you to tell me when I am wrong with Cata's journey and help refine my work into something of use to teach others of the history.
Cata's journey is of the history of man and how they honed their skills being given the basic skill by Cata as he moved from place to place, I need your input and your work to give me a different perspective on many things, Yours with many thoughts, Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

Jonathan, William, Ian and Beau. As I said before I shall keep an eye here and as you're telling that I might add to what I have submitted earlier is sure a good idea. I shall give my submissions a bit of rest and come back later maybe.
Thanks all for the nice words and your wishes.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

rula
As everyone has already said, this is going to be a long workshop, no stress to write – just as the inspiration comes to continue or add to the stories we are writing. So I am really glad that you have decided to stay in the workshop, for I think your idea for the Cain story has great promise…
love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

...l say!
Bully!,
doc.

Neopoet is "newtriffic" !
...from the heart, or a reasonable faxcimile;
david a. goodwin #{:>{)} @==

Juddy
Doc.
Thanks for the trust .

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

so what is the general consensus here?
do people prefer to read a work in parts rather than as a whole?

when it comes to critiquing, I personally prefer to be able to do it in small amounts.

that’s why I have submitted my work in parts. I find it much easier to edit etc…

everybody … wes… do tell me how you think we should submit…
love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

I want to be able to read the whole story. Now, if it's a very long piece, I can understand the equivalent of chapters, because I want to see a coherent thought started and completed.

---------------------------------------------------------

Jonathan Moore

Annoying the world, one person at a time

(Group discounts available)

In pieces.
First of all we have that nifty thing at the top of the page called "revisions". It allows us to punch it and survey a list of edits over a period of time in case we wish to actually compare. Now, I always hate having something in my car or on my tractor or something else that is there unused, so I will use it.

As for actually going through a work with a comb to find the changes, I think this is unnecessary. The poet alters a poem to improve it, so I must assume this is the version he/she desires to have read. It's a bit like switching over from American Standard Measurements to Metric. We don't need to know how many centimeters are in an inch, we merely need to know how long a centimeter is.

I will continue adding to and changing my submission. I will REPLACE the entire thing so that it might be read again from the beginning with a new attitude. The changes don't need to be noted, only what still needs to be repaired. If a critic NEEDS to seek out the specific changes made, the revisions icon is still there, but all I'm concerned with is WHERE THE STORY/POETRY IS NOW AND WHERE THE STORY/POETRY NEEDS TO GO.

I will stress something that may be perceived as a little tedious, but I believe that as these poems progress we will become VERY well acquainted with them as they will require us, as on going critics, to constantly re-read them. Consider them works of music. No musician worth his salt will glance over a piece of music, say "that's keen" and never play it again. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard the Brandenburg Concertos, but I will hear them again gladly.

We are writing music. Play each other's pieces again and again. Who knows we might learn something.

wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

how is one to join a workshop if said workshops are already full to capacity?

<3
Val

we are never full to capacity. They require I put a number and sometimes I put a conservative one. If thousands descend upon me, I may ask someone else to help, but I will never turn a poet away. Particularly under these circumstances. This is a slow go, long term workshop that will lose, gain and regain poets. I doubt we will ever truly have capacity at any one time.
If you would like to join, tell me and I shall sign you in. Then please, look in on some of the discussions held here at the beginning (syllabus) and over at our first Storytelling workshop. This will give you an idea of what we're expecting.
Don't forget that you will be expected to critique all of the works being submitted. It is a joint effort, but don't feel in a hurry or pressured.
Unlike other workshops, we have the time.
wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

i have unpublished them, to avoid confusion, as i have now submitted the story as a whole, as that is what most seem to want...

love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

feel free to post pieces if that is what you wish to have critiqued. Our purpose here is to change what we are unsatisfied with, so throw us what you are working on. Of course, I want to read the whole story, but I want your story to be completed, in a paper published form and handed to me late at night for a quiet read.
Delightful, but not our purpose here.

So this goes for everyone... post what you want us to see and critique. The more you post the happier I'll be, but YOU are the center of this workshop. Seek the critique and assistance that you want and need.

Not that I won't go read your story with relish Judy.
wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Here is a link to a blog entry of mine broaching the subject of "Sing-Song".

http://www.neopoet.com/wesley-snow/blog/fri-2012-11-09-1740

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Now I have this question to ask: what determines the length of each line of the poem? For an epic (or any poem that's going to last as long as we're planning) I think it's an important decision to make, because you'll have to stick with it through so many lines.

I was thinking writing in longer lines, say iambic pentameter, would make it much easier to rhyme, but I'm not so sure if it's accepted in this type of poetry.

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

When I started Caco, Man of the Morning Star, I instinctively began in iambic tetrameter because I had just read Tolkien's "The Lay of Leithian". At the time I felt that if this man wasn't a god, he at least walked with them (still feel that way) and who am I to buck his well educated perspective. I had been desiring this adventure for nearly fifteen years, but still knew so little about poetry that I told everyone my new "epic" is written in iambic pentameter. It took me a couple of months of research to find out my mistake, but I kept with tetrameter because I liked it.

After seven years and 25,000 lines I wish I had chosen pentameter for some of the reasons you mention. Longer lines (if only by two syllables) means arriving at a rhyme less often. Even though you only come to a rhyme fifty percent of the time, after 25,000 lines it adds up. For the "History" story in Part Two I have chosen a combination (The Ana) which should relieve some of the pressure and give the work a very different feel as it bounces back and forth from the present day adventures of Gundhag the Witch and Co.

But wait... there's more. In ancient and medieval epic poetry the longer line was the common line. Look into the Alexandrine which Chaucer used in a number of occasions and Pope used to very good effect. It is a twelve syllable line of any meter. If you have not yet read my post "The Felling of The King", please go have a look. It is an alliterative thing with rhyming couplets that I think is probably the most powerful thing I've written. It uses lines of 14, 16 and occasionally 18 syllables of iamb. As far as the "old" works are concerned, it is likely the closest in character of anything here ('cause most of these poets won't risk the gibes of writing lines that long).

So... don't be afraid to use massively long lines, choose carefully at the first (because I DO believe you enter into contract with the poem) and don't base your decision on tradition unless that is part of the art you wish to convey.

From the beginning I wanted to write something that looked and felt like a medieval poem, but that once inside of it the reader was carried along by its "modernity", its "hipness" if you will.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

...you've REALLY bitten off a large hunk of the thigh, on this; and l quite admire your "hutspuh", and "gumption" on this endeavor.
The ammount of personal, and privately solo investigation you have done is alone, quite remarkable, as well.
I must retire from my computer because of a prior engagement with the termite control specialists, while the house is fumagated; however....I assure I will take an interested look at your effort.
No offense, but you'll never win at a "limbo" competition, if you persist in continually raising the bar!
I'll speak with you later, my friend;
sincerely,
doc.

Neopoet is "newtriffic" !
...from the heart, or a reasonable faxcimile;
david a. goodwin #{:>{)} @==

Hello everyone!
Happy New Year to you! Just wondered where you were with this workshop and whether it was still a "work in progress"? Any place for 'hangers-on'? ;)
Lots of inspiration and connectivity as a group for this year folks!
Regards

Bonitaj

you are very welcome here. It is an ongoing shop with us sharing and griping about each other's attempts at narrative poetry. Because what we try here is usually larger than the usual poem, the shop moves very slowly. Check out some of the other pieces and by all means, let us see what you are thinking about.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

will get on it in the course of the next few days.

Bonitaj

Blow us away please.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Cata will be back soon , he has been on a holiday in Cambodia he was talking about a city there that he helped build in 500 AD I am beginning to suspect he is telling me porky pies but I will ask him later..
I had a year or two away from him around that time so I will have to see what he says.. Take care have a great year, Cata said that most of the places are made in glass and metal with a little stone thrown in, he wasn't very happy and muttered something about going around repairing some of his previous places, Yours Bramm..

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

Can you please add me to the workshop?

Scott

I would like to apply for membership to your workshop. How do i do that?

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Very much appreciated...neopoet has changed from when i was here before...so im learning

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

added.

Please read the syllabus and this thread,

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

Long time no see!!! Do you know who I am? I will read the syllabus as I get the opportunity throughout the day. I look forward to working with you throughout these workshops.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Sorry, can't remember

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

you know me under another name, before the crash, i took some time off from writing and you encouraged me not too long ago to start up again..so here I am.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

didnt write either of those...but that's ok. :)

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

go for the Thai, the Macallan Spelled with an E is a fake ( whiskey - whisky )

Ian

TIME FLIES LIKE AN ARROW, BUT FRUIT FLIES LIKE A BANANA

and welcome on behalf of Wesley.

Adding myself as a moderator, will do my best to catch up.

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

Thank you for covering for me. I know I can always count on you.
I will be doing some reading here over the next few days (and hopefully some writing as well), so I will be joyfully catching up.
It is dreadfully nice being needed and I have missed this outlet for my art.
Yes Stan. Though epiphany doesn't quite cover it.
Talk to you soon Rula.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I would like to join. What are the steps?
Thank You,
Dina Grey

Send Wesley a private message. But when he's seen this, he will add you to it. In the mean time, have fun reading the syllabus (I'm sure you already have) and the submissions so far.

Unlike most other workshops, this one runs on indefinitely.

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

Shows you where my head has been of late with the Mentor Program sucking my time.
I don't remember if you posted anything, so I will catch up if you have.
My apologies for being a bad workshop leader.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I, myself, am in the midst of many commitments (work, school and three kids) so I am not sure how much of a contribution I will be able to make at this point or how much time i am going to be able to dedicate but I will do my very best. Thank you for the warm welcome!!!

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

this workshop is about long story-telling poems and Wes won't always be able to keep up on new posts, especially since he is also working so hard running the Mentoring Program. So whenever you post something new, remember to post a mention here or even better, the URL which is the link, like the link to http://www.neopoet.com/workshop/poems/legend-inve-and-tantalla-vii-silve...
All it takes is copying and pasting the address (URL) in your browser.

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

It makes me positively gonzo when something has been posted that I NEED to see and days (horrors... weeks) go by without my knowing they are there. I should check daily, but I confess I get distracted.
Thank you Jess.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

even when it feels otherwise [grins]

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

Over the next several days I will offer some "food for thought". Nothing dynamic, just some things to think about. Then I may come knocking on a few doors. There are some unfinished tales here that I'm dying to know about. Never leave a poet hanging when it comes to storytelling.
I need my soap opera fix.

Just something to consider:

Many of the tales in this workshop are quite short and thereby don't fall into the category of "epic poetry", but those that do are classically referred to as "epopee".
Our story components in English are Exposition, Complication, Climax and Resolution.
In Classical Greek (which is the official birthplace of epopee even though we have much epic poetry preceding the Greeks) our components are termed (in order);
Protasis, Epitasis, Catastasis and Catastrophe.
Just something to consider.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Why is Cata Strophe mentioned last in your comment lol.
Glad to have you back I have some edits to sort out and apply.
Take care see you soon, Bram, lol

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

May I please join this workshop. It sounds so much fun.

...as l idiotly joined another workshop that is clearly, out of my "loose", and lean pockets of comprehesion and understanding.
Another story.....another poem;
l'm guessing, that's how l "roll";
teel free to tear me a "new" one,
l'm just sayin';
doc.

Neopoet is "newtriffic" !
...from the heart, or a reasonable faxcimile;
david a. goodwin #{:>{)} @==

I am considering entering this shop but with a poem which is still in the making. I think it might qualify as an epic as it presently has over 500 lines. I expect this is longer than you are really looking for and it changes meter (unlike classic epics). But it might also show that strict meter is not always needed. Give me a holler if you think entering an unfinished poem is a good or bad idea. If you decide it's OK I'll enter it in the same way I posted it on stream :raw and in approx. 100 line segments..........stan

I apologize. My purpose is to "drive" those willing to produce a tale in verse. I will change my neglect into something more positive. When Stan is finished with his Imagery shop, I will, with permission, lead a workshop in Dramatic Verse. I will not do it through this shop, but I have hopes that some of the poems in the new workshop will find their way here.
Again, my apologies.
Too much life it seems.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

As the above post attests once again my lackadaisical attitude toward the shop, especially since its nearer my heart than all workshops.
But have hope. I will soon be pestering you again with another workshop centered in this shop.
A full description will be forthcoming, but I can safely say it will be one of the most unorthodox shops ever run at NeoPoet.
When I post the syllabus I would ask that anyone reading this offer up suggestions on format and substance before we begin. This is like nothing attempted here and I need feedback. A discussion on why the shop will not work is requisite for my attempt.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

a rule could be made for this one that after ones initial post no further additions/revisions may be added/made until three (yes 3) constructive critiques have been given to other participant's works. This would depend on the nature of the workshop.

Can you give us some hints as to its nature?

This workshop would need to be formally ended before the new one could begin.

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

I was going to run a workshop within a workshop. First, Stan and I have decided to run my Dramatic Verse shop within Storytelling. The other shop has so many problems I have to think harder on it. I'm not convinced it could work. I also thought I might run an experimental workshop with the round robin story thing. Maybe in a blog with participants knowing it was an experiment to work out the bugs. In that way I could get some real time suggestions on changes necessary to make a later attempt succeed. Stan thinks I'm overthinking this, but I don't know. Lots of problems here.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Don't want to sound negative or anything but you are attempting to combine several entirely new concepts in one. I suspect you are heading for an over-the-top up-cycle that may crash and burn,.

You have started well by taking on one at a time. You have approached semipaternal with great results, you have attempted strory-telling, And you are attempting the most difficult of all, in my opinion, because in a story or novel one is not constricted by form:- collaboration! You are a fucking masochistic maniac. Why do you think the collaborative artforms such as music have such high rates of substance abuse and suicide? Creative sentiments and egos going head to head.

SO NATURALLY I TOTALLY SUPPORT THE PROJECT AND WANT IN, BOOTS AND ALL! I WANT BARBARA WRITES IN TOO BECAUSE OF HER EXPERIENCE IN COLLABORATIVE WORK, WHICH SHOULD BE THE FIRST STAGE BECAUSE IT IS THE ONE MOST POETS WILL HAVE MOST PROBLEMS DEALING WITH.

Things like subject, forms, approach and protocols can be dealt with as we come to them.

A small note to emeka ozurumba, please don't be put off by my over-use of profanity in this, I promise to curtail it in the work itself, I am just so excited by this grand project and I just know that your creative, out-0f-the-box exciting wordcrafting would be a major contribution. Could we draw in that loner genius Esker? The master of form and craft, Lonnie? The Neopoet pool of talent and skill is prodigious. There are even Protectors, who will stand between the Sharks and the minnows,

So many things to address. Will it be in play form? That is huge, daunting and a project in itself, other issues will present themselves along the way.
 

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

This will be a straightforward workshop within Storytelling. I'm delivering the syllabus to Stan today. I don't expect any problems there. Just a fair amount of fun and challenge.

To the tale... you're right... I'm nuts. I'm going to run the first time as an experiment. Everyone come and fuck up with me, so we can find out how to do it for real. I don't know whether to run it in a strict workshop form or in a blog or what. I wasn't planning on writing as a play, but as a strict piece of poetry. Sort of a mini epopee. I think it requires traditional narrative to get the story told. It's going to be hard enough as it is. I've been talked out of rhyming iambic pentameter (which is a bummer, but I see why it would be easier if everyone chose their own meter and whether or not to rhyme).
I WILL create a storyboard (loose), so everyone knows where the story needs to go. After that they are free to throw wrenches at will.

Barbara is already in and will be my technical moderator. The individual pieces put up round robin by the participants will be posted on the main thread of the workshop for critique. Once they are in granite, she will add them to the ongoing poem posted on the Stream. This way everyone can read the full poem as it stands before they are required to add to it. Wish her patience and luck. It's sweet of her to offer.
As it stands I'm planning on everyone getting two octets of poetic space each turn. That should give them enough room to move something forward without hogging the story.
Meter and rhyme are up to the poet.
Where should I run this? Should I just set up a regular workshop and then in the thread explain that they are joining me for something so new that it may or may not work? Or should I set up a blog and add to the story that way?
I'm glad you want to be involved. I'm going to need you.
I'll crash and burn later. All of my prescriptions are filled.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

What have I missed

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

I will be there.

A few suggestions, i would like invite ephraimcrud if either he agrees to write in normal vernacular (which I know he is quite capable of and would be responsible for.) or his own dialect if his character in the story is appropriate. And Scott, eightmenout, for his verbal skills, as appropriate. Workshop, Blog Stream and Workshop stream could become complex and confusing, Barbara has handled Blog and Workshop stream effectively. in Renga, two others could handle the Blog Stream and if necessary.the Workshop Stream. There will be plenty of talent and jobs to go round.

I am tremendously excited by this and see it leading on to greater things. The sense of collaboration resulting in a significant work could be a major achievement for Neopoet.
cheers
Jess

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

Who runs this workshop and keep an eye on the homepage for new workshops starting up.

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

you can go to
Workshop>Find a workshop

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

I'm not a participant in this sempiternal workshop
As my storytelling skills in the past had often flopped
I'm here to learn and receive critique
From storytellers telling it well when they teach
Sign me up before I turn and run from your storytelling in verse workshop.

Bringing in Spring
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/renga-spring-greetings-renga-16

Poetry "Words don't impose they heal";
Create Collaborative Poetry ~ Modern Day Japanese Renga

Barbara

So you want to write a story in verse. You've come to the right place.

EVERYONE WAKE UP! WE HAVE A VISITOR! COME SAY HI!

They will. There are some cobwebs here and there, so watch your step. My fault really. I've held a couple of workshops within the workshop, but this household has fallen on slower times.
Well, that it will all change now that you're here. If you're here that means Rula is here and part time Stan.
Plenty. Though don't get any ideas about collaborative work. I've had enough of that for a bit.

The first thing I ask, all kidding aside, is what do you want from this workshop. I know what I want to give to you, but that may not be what you want and here in "Forever" (that's what sempiternal means) we aim to please (even if we must torture you to achieve the effect).
For your comfort: This workshop is sanctioned by the Olympic Pool only.
More on the subject of pools in another message.

This is how I run my horseback riding lessons (I be teaching a loooong time).
Let's talk about recognizing story. Go back and read the beginning of my message. The tortured part is far enough.
I'll wait.

Back? Good. Did you notice I told you a story? It was missing something, but not entirely. There was an exposition where our characters (you, me, the guys) are introduced. Then a complication sets in: the place is a wreck, but you're going change everything says the mad scientist. Then our climax where our heroine ponders whether she would flee this mad house or could she possibly, madly, even apprehensively learn something completely alien to her?
What we're missing is a resolution. That would be what you want to do next. I have no end of ideas, but you get the first pull of the lever.
Telling stories is easier than you think once you understand how they work. They are all the same. Just variations on a theme.
I look forward to your workshop where I shall be out of familiar waters.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I am here...just lost in where we are at with this workshop

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

This workshop peakedmy interest. I got an idea I think will work. Right I got a resolution to write and some time to figure out what I gonna write lol

Bringing in Spring
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/renga-spring-greetings-renga-16

Poetry "Words don't impose they heal";
Create Collaborative Poetry ~ Modern Day Japanese Renga

Barbara

I will do this storytelling fearing for life
All I have to do is write a resolution, okay I'll give it a try
For me tubleshooting comes easier than telling the whole story
I suppose the great teacher you are knew that I would just worry
I can't wait to write this resolution and see you in my workshop like a fish out of water.

These waters are alien to me but I happy to swim with the Sharks.

Bringing in Spring
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/renga-spring-greetings-renga-16

Poetry "Words don't impose they heal";
Create Collaborative Poetry ~ Modern Day Japanese Renga

Barbara

You agreed to join my workshop.
That's a resolution. Do you see? I used resolution in terms of your story as a noun, as your personal resolution to join this imbroglio I used it as a verb.

Try this for me. Yes, it's a trick, but do it anyway.
Write me a story in four lines. They needn't be long or even grammatically correct.
Your first line must be exposition: introduce the characters and environment.
Your second line is the complication: a problem arises between two or more of our characters.
Your third is your climax. Everything comes to a head. Doesn't have to be loud or big. It can be as small as a hug or whispered word.
Your last is resolution: Loose ends tied up, things return to normal, but with a change of sorts brought on by the complication.
Try that. It's an old exercise, but I cut my teeth on stuff like that. The subject can be anything humorous or not.
And it doesn't have to be poetry. We're training different muscles, so we will use different tools... like prose.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

You are good I wrote a resolution without knowing it. Wow how easy that was that?
Now this is hard.

I watched, took pictures, videos of five squirrels, a few birds and a bird feeder outside the window of the doctor office.
Two birds ate corn from the feeder, three squirrels try to feed there too, jumping on the birds,
Chaos! the birds flew away, three squirrels began fighting, no birds or squirrels left to feed,
Gradually the birds return, ate corn amidst the other squirrels gathering underneath, the squirrels fought for space on the feeder, falling runs away, the birds return atop their feeder one by one.

Bringing in Spring
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/renga-spring-greetings-renga-16

Poetry "Words don't impose they heal";
Create Collaborative Poetry ~ Modern Day Japanese Renga

Barbara

An excellent little one. All the parts were present.

Now though, before we move on let's talk about proofreading. I'm willing to bet you think fast inside your head, wheels always moving. I wouldn't be too surprised if you were one of the tenth of a percent of the population that actually double tracks.
But I digress.

You type the same way. You type fast... am I correct?
This means you leave behind bread crumbs of typographical errors. Not flaws in your writing, but mistakes in spelling and grammar.
In a small poem this can sometimes be forgiven, but in a longer piece like a story these mistakes not only cause the flow to stumble. They can also cause confusion.

Clarity is twice as important in a story than in a poem without a tale to be told.

This is a habit you need to cultivate. I type 65 words a minute when I'm cranking, but my typo ratio is usually ten mistakes. That takes time to fix, so I slow down to about 45 and I have no mistakes... WHEN I PROOFREAD.

Since this is art and art means the presentation of a finished product, why would you be willing to hang anything you wrote on a wall without it being EXACTLY what you intended? This includes comments and critiques, love letters, memo's at work. I'm careful with my laundry list (but I have issues).
Anyway.
The story needs to be proofread before we go on. Can you search through it and find the little mistakes? Then I'll pick at it.
Welcome to Storytelling in Verse. We're going to have more fun than you think.
Call Rula and invite her over.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I proof read so much I get exhausted revising editing as I write. I attempt to get all the detail in as well as check for errors in grammar and spelling. Yes I think extremely fast in my head. Yep this wheels never stop moving at times I write faster than I think skipping words and whole sentences at times. For this I proofread the whole time I wrote. There are too many super highways in my brain. Lol
Bread crumbs of typographical errors yes I go back before finishing the write to clean them up. I fail I see in that attempt. Maybe you can help me find my way out of tha corn maze. Lol I will proofread again. I'm having fun knowing, hoping I'll emerge from here a better storyteller.
Clarity. I probably need to take a class on clarity lol.

Hi Rula, I have an invitation for you
Come join me and Wesley in this story.

Bringing in Spring
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/renga-spring-greetings-renga-16

Poetry "Words don't impose they heal";
Create Collaborative Poetry ~ Modern Day Japanese Renga

Barbara

I am all ears and eyes.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Yes, I am doing much better after knowing Mr. Wesley.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

I hope I can also become much better

Bringing in Spring
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/renga-spring-greetings-renga-16

Poetry "Words don't impose they heal";
Create Collaborative Poetry ~ Modern Day Japanese Renga

Barbara

This discussion as it will continue (and I hope some others will come and take a look) is something I've wanted to do for a while. I have spent a fair amount of time research writing techniques and don't really have anywhere to share them... but maybe here.
A workshop would be too small for what I want to talk about. Rula and Barbara, you both have been on the other end of my argument for The Shark Pool.
Well, this is the sort of thing I would talk about in that pool. Nuts and bolts. Making a formularized machine that is of our own making.
Bach wrote at a time when it was not vogue to write in "strange and different forms", so he wrote music in strict formula as the age demanded and produced some of the most magnificent music the world has ever heard.
If you know the formula, the story comes easier, but taking the time and space to discuss it is almost prohibitive.

This is my way of at the same time thanking you for letting me show you some of this and warning you that if you thought I was long winded before...

Lesson One

Before we go too far we need to discuss the four elements of the storyline.

Exposition. Complication. Climax. Resolution.

Exposition first.
This is where we introduce the factors that will be manipulated (in action) in our story.
But what do we introduce?
First of all characters. Each story must have a protagonist and an antagonist. Neither need be introduced immediately.

We could start with a drunk in the street picking up a piece of paper that when he reads it he has a heart attack and dies…
Story started. A “piece” of the exposition.

This next is important. None of these components should separate precisely. There is no point in your tale where exposition stops and complication begins. They are fluid. You will introduce new characters and places later in the story, hence exposition continues.
You will resolve smaller complications inside your story. Loss of complication, a larger one is now focused on.

They move through your story together and not separate.

Exposition MUST go first as we know nothing yet, but complication can begin immediately.

My dead drunk found something so frightening that it caused him to die.
And now a wind blows it away down the street where a cat attempts to pounce on the rolling object when it suddenly freezes in motion, almost in time, arcs its back and lets forth a feline cry of pain and despair as has never been heard.
Then it bolts and runs.

Think carefully. How many “principal” characters have I introduced? This is a trick question, so think a moment.

Barbara look at your little story about “you” and joining my happy little asylum and note what and or who you introduced.

In my little story I have introduced what is a “primary character” without whom or which nothing will proceed.
Here that character is the piece of paper. A character need not be revealed in a direct way. Someone, sometime wrote something on that piece of paper so hideous it can kill old men and scare the hell out of a wizened old stray cat: a killer.
I have introduced this character. This person, but I have done it indirectly. I know nothing of him (except now I have just decided to make him a man) other than he is powerful.

My second character is the drunk. Is he a drunk or a broken king? I haven’t a clue.
Isn’t storytelling fun? You get to watch it unfold before you as it’s happening. Which by the way, please note that my silly, little tale is a present piece of action. It is happening now… present tense (we’ll discuss analepsis another time).

What I would like you to try is to write (in verse… remember where you are) an exposition by itself. An opening scene. You needn’t explain who the characters are or what they mean to each other. The reader doesn’t want to know everything at once. Just introduce some characters and a location.
The choice of metrical style is of course entirely up to you, but keep in mind we want stories told in verse.
Poetry.
Exposition.
The rest of the story will take care of itself.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
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author comment

The storytelling workshop caught my attention. The teacher immediately welcomed me. His first assignment is to write a resolution that turned out to be me simply accepting the challenge to change the dynamic of his workshop. His second assignment is to invited another student to join us.

Bringing in Spring
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/renga-spring-greetings-renga-16

Poetry "Words don't impose they heal";
Create Collaborative Poetry ~ Modern Day Japanese Renga

Barbara

This is an exposition, but only an exposition. None of our characters have character. We don't want to introduce them by simple acknowledgement. They each need something more to separate them from one another.
Does that make sense?

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

Makes sense to me ,accomplishing that is tricky at this point. I'm sure I'll get it with your guidance

Bringing in Spring
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/renga-spring-greetings-renga-16

Poetry "Words don't impose they heal";
Create Collaborative Poetry ~ Modern Day Japanese Renga

Barbara

Exposition doesn’t introduce only characters. It introduces locale, time period, the surrounding people and oddly enough, it introduces complication.
There is an old saying that a time of peace and tranquility, though lovely to think on, is dull to discuss while a story of danger and fear is too quickly told leaving us wanting more.
That means that a complication must be negative and palpable. By that last word I mean physical, actual, real time. One of negative things that came out of A Study in Pink is the realization that few poets have a sense of the Now. This includes both of you, Rula and Barbara.
The first thing I want to change in a part of your writing is your use of present tense. If you write in present tense for a time you will find yourself writing action AS IT IS HAPPENING.
Present tense means switching from “he was” to “he is”. It’s actually harder than you think. Try doing it in not only your exposition written here, but in another poem also.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I will proof read my exposition to see if I've done this. so you want me to write how? present as in action happening now.?

Bringing in Spring
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/renga-spring-greetings-renga-16

Poetry "Words don't impose they heal";
Create Collaborative Poetry ~ Modern Day Japanese Renga

Barbara

try writing in the present tense. Not everyone does, but we need to be able to recognize the difference, so we don't accidentally mix them (which happens ALL THE TIME... makes me nuts).
We need present tense understood before we talk about analepsis (it's not a disease).

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I had to look that word up. Never heard it before

Bringing in Spring
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/renga-spring-greetings-renga-16

Poetry "Words don't impose they heal";
Create Collaborative Poetry ~ Modern Day Japanese Renga

Barbara

Flashback external (a flashback to a time before the beginning of the narrative) and Flashback internal (a flashback to an earlier time in the narrative)
If you had the time I would have you read Canto One of my epic poem. It follows strictly (perhaps too strictly) the nine dictates of epopee. The first is to begin in "the middle" with the hero at her lowest point, then tell the story of how things got this way. External analepsis.
In other words, exposition need not lead the way. It can be spoonfed all through the piece a little at a time while complication after complication keeps us riveted.
Now rewrite your exposition giving each character something unique, something to remember and add a complication. It needn't be big. The tiniest of arguments, a lost set of keys, children making noise. There are complications everywhere.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

My family and friends already look at me like why you talk like that.? Now more words lol
Okay exposition again. I'll have it right before too long.

Bringing in Spring
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/renga-spring-greetings-renga-16

Poetry "Words don't impose they heal";
Create Collaborative Poetry ~ Modern Day Japanese Renga

Barbara

The storytelling workshop caught my attention. Making it sempiternal mean I can stop in anytime for a lesson in storytelling or to share one. The teacher an expert storyteller immediately welcomed me. His first assignment is to write a resolution that turned out to be me simply accepting the challenge to change the dynamic of his workshop. His second assignment is to invited another student to join us. She's a better storyteller having been taught by him.

Bringing in Spring
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/renga-spring-greetings-renga-16

Poetry "Words don't impose they heal";
Create Collaborative Poetry ~ Modern Day Japanese Renga

Barbara

It's how it usually goes;
the house is a real mess;
their slippers are everywhere,
the pajamas too undone,
the cereal and the bread crumbs,
the jam jar's often open
on a table that's still laid.
Many dishes in the sink
and the laundry basket's full.

Everyone is in a hurry!
They must catch the 7 o'clock bus
or they will probably be late.
Of course, for the school won't wait.

Minutes later, she's alone
but with the chaos they've left.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Wonderful, why I can't do that. When I do get it I'm treating myself

Bringing in Spring
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/renga-spring-greetings-renga-16

Poetry "Words don't impose they heal";
Create Collaborative Poetry ~ Modern Day Japanese Renga

Barbara

A great write now I know why I work late at night LOL.
Good piece though keep writing as you do it is always well read, Yours Ian..

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

I am happy you like it. And your LOL put a big smile on my face this morning.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

A marvelous exposition. Character without giving it directly. The things it "could" reflect: loneliness, dedication, breaking points. So many things and they were all in the present. We were there now.
Cool.
Wait for Barbara and we'll try another game. A smaller one.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Well, thank you. You've at least inspired this. If not directly, but I've always liked the vividness in your writing when you write about your everyday life.
I AM treating myself after your comment.
I wish Wesley agrees with you.
Have a nice day you too!

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

But then I'm not an expert but I see me in your poem clearly

Bringing in Spring
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/renga-spring-greetings-renga-16

Poetry "Words don't impose they heal";
Create Collaborative Poetry ~ Modern Day Japanese Renga

Barbara

Let's make sure that we don't overwhelm ourselves playing over here. I mean, I'll run on with new stuff until you can't stand it, but we all have other workshops we're participating in and need to dedicate some time to them.
However, Barbara write a short exposition that begins with complication like my little story.

"The paper blows in a small tornadic twirl until grasped from the wind by the gloved hand of an extraordinarily well dressed lord who crosses the street as it begins to rain and by the show of the piece of paper gains entrance to the always locked doors of Notre Dame."

A complication need not be explained at the time of introduction. One of the worst mistakes new storytellers make is to try and tell too much of the story at once. The Reader doesn't want to know everything right away. I'm not kidding.
Make things up and explain them later.
I have no idea who the Lord is or why he even wanted to enter Notre Dame, but it will be fun finding out.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

And ready to get this.

What You hink

Exposition and Complication
Candi is riding her bike around the yard then she hears the sound of a barking dog. Before she could stop the bike she is running, bike wheels spinning, screaming “ mommy mommy” like speed of lightening she gains enters to the open door of her grandmothers home.

Exposition .
My sleeping beauty screaming felt something so painful that it caused her to cry out in agony. Now she is running through the darkness her face in her hand trying to make a cup goldenseal tea in the microwave, nasty bitter taste, to stop the knife wielding pain that is cutting into the nerves of her gum straight to her jawbone that is protruding at the base of her earlobe. No more sleep tonight.

Bringing in Spring
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/renga-spring-greetings-renga-16

Poetry "Words don't impose they heal";
Create Collaborative Poetry ~ Modern Day Japanese Renga

Barbara

Nigh on evil, but most importantly it introduced the scene and character while introducing a complication.
All stories are written this way. Endless combinations. When you read note the interplay between expo. and comp.
This is very good.
Now try this. Either solve this complication, calm down and prepare for a slightly greater problem (we call this "stair stepping in complication"... later) or double down and take it to a higher level of complication without leaving out our exposition.
Also, tell Rula to start critiquing your story. She needs Shark Pool practice and I think your skin is thick enough for her.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Rula you can practice on me for the shak pool now.
I will be back with and doubled own take it to higher level

Here it is
Candi is riding her bike around the yard then she hears the sound of a barking dog. Before she could stop the bike she is jump running, bike wheels spinning behind, screaming “ mommy mommy” like the speed of light she gains the open door of her grandmothers home. Before Candi could reach the steps her mother, knife on hand, bolts out the door and attacks the dog snapping at her baby’s dress tail.

Bringing in Spring
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/renga-spring-greetings-renga-16

Poetry "Words don't impose they heal";
Create Collaborative Poetry ~ Modern Day Japanese Renga

Barbara

We need to clean this from any grammatical or typographical mistakes.
REMEMBER we are supposed to use the present tense.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

I'm shark meat. Now where are my typos and grammatical errors

Bringing in Spring
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/renga-spring-greetings-renga-16

Poetry "Words don't impose they heal";
Create Collaborative Poetry ~ Modern Day Japanese Renga

Barbara

I've tried this three times on my bloody phone and had to give up.

I'm here now and so are Barbara and Rula just for the moment. Jess is always in and out. As you might guess things are a little quiet here after having just run two workshops in a row.
Now would be an awesome time for you to drop by with ideas, poetry or just thoughts on storytelling in general. If you read some of Barbara's and my recent conversations they were considering exposition.
I don't know how much you understand nor what you want, but we have resources to change the way you write (hopefully for the better).
If for the moment you want to think about us, why not play my recent game. Write an exposition with a complication being introduced immediately. We don't have to understand it. It is only an exposition. Read some of my examples if you can find them. Then isolate the characters you have introduced. Maybe a paragraph's worth. Then we play with what you wrote. Maybe it becomes something, maybe it's something we can learn/teach.
In the meantime, if you have story in verse that you want to share this is the best place I know for a good critique.

I'm glad we've had this little talk. I feel like I've been chasing your shadow for days.
Welcome to Storytelling in Verse.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

One at a time. We have responsibilities elsewhere to (even though I love this stuff).

Candi is riding her bike around the yard(,)then she hears the sound of a barking dog. "you are separating two halves of a sentence, so a comma is called for as in this sentence. Or you could replace 'then' with 'and'"

Before she could stop the bike she is jump(ing and) running, bike wheels spinning behind,
screaming “(this is picky, shark pool picky. there was an unnecessary extra gap between the quotation marks and the first "m" of -) mommy mommy” like the speed of light she gains the open door of her
If you think I'm teasing, I am not. I am deadly serious. The first rule of failure when proofreading is to not do it. The second is to not do it with an eye for attention to detail. I say it all the time... here goes again- never allow anything you write to slip through your fingers without it being EXACTLY what you want it to be. Down to little extra spaces even. This is step two in "being taken very seriously"

I have to get back to work. Will finish later. I'm not through with you. Thank you for letting me rant on proofreading. It's important to me.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Not a problem. I need to learn it. Grammar is rough bc iits hard to remember when writing. I will make the changes.

How is this
Candi is riding her bike around the yard and she hears the sound of a barking dog. Before she could stop the bike she is jumping and running, bike wheels spinning behind, screaming “mommy mommy” like the speed of light she gains the open door of her grandmothers house. As Candi is approaching the door her mother, knife in hand, bolts and runs toward the dog biting at her baby’s dress tail.

Bringing in Spring
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/renga-spring-greetings-renga-16

Poetry "Words don't impose they heal";
Create Collaborative Poetry ~ Modern Day Japanese Renga

Barbara

his poems would be welcome, remember to credit them

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

this is his workshop.

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

Are they storytelling in nature? If so, then you post the Stream as a poem, but at the bottom when it asks you to mark "workshop" click on the drop down and choose "Storytelling in Verse: (sempiternal)". It will show up on The Stream as a poem, but give us here in the Hole easy access to the piece, so we can talk about it.
Anything you're working on of any length and narrative nature I would love to help you with it if I can. As for credentials I refer to my BAP (Big Ass Poem) littered across the wasteland of NeoPoet's past.

Show us your limerick story in its roughest draft. That's what we do here. We don't critique finished product, we help the author to produce. If you start something like that here you'll wake the bears (there are about a dozen or so), but they are large and talented. Critique Bears one might call them. If you were to research some of the submissions for the workshop you might find some interesting things.
It's been sleepy of late after the two workshop specials.
Between you and Ragdoll it may wake up. I'll have to make some coffee.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

and you should post the latter. We're pretty cool around here. It's the Olympic Pool, but I will warn you Rula and Barbara have been practicing their Shark Pool Cruel for the upcoming workshop on the sonnet (it will be held in the Great White Section). They're not exactly Rush, but they can be blunt.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

last time?

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Where were we?
Gem was going to give us some of her father's pieces to analyze, but I don't know that she has. I will check though I suspect she would mention it if she had.
We were talking about exposition sort of, but I truly don't know the parameters of the conversation without reading over the recent comments (something I'm reticent to take the time to do... just lazy).
I'm open for any kind of conversation, but what I would really like is a story to pick apart.
Not the poetry. I've made it a point to give only cursive attention to the poetry and concentrate on the storytelling that makes this workshop unique.
I think Barbara is too sick to contribute. It sounds like she's having a rough time.
Which reminds me... Chrys made mention of a little participation, but she's having surgery. I need to know how that went.
I will send her a message and ask.
My energy level is low after the workshop, but I will create an exercise for us to play with in time. Meanwhile, whatever you'd like to talk about is what I would like to talk about.
After running two workshop within the workshop I won't be running another one for a bit (don't actually have an idea). I wouldn't run it until we've run the sonnet shop which won't be for a number of weeks if that soon. I want the workshop load to be small on the site before we tackle that.
I hate computers for getting in the way of my life, but truly if I did not have them I would not have you.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I agree that you need a rest after the workshops but I hope it won't go long.
So I will be here waiting the others and your ex. to work on .
Until then, I really appreciate your time and the effort.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

the Ballade.
Look it up and think about trying one. I haven't written one in years, but I remember it being challenging. It has a very complicated rhyme scheme and at least one repeating line... I think.
That shop won't be for a long time, but that gives us time to figure it out.
At any rate, the Ballade is required to tell a story.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

mmmm.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

For understanding. After a few years fighting an gum infection I finally found another dentist ans is on Antibotic for the um teen time. I getting better hope to get your workshop going with my storytelling soon.

Bringing in Spring
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/renga-spring-greetings-renga-16

Poetry "Words don't impose they heal";
Create Collaborative Poetry ~ Modern Day Japanese Renga

Barbara

I've gone into my books and I know what it requires. I believe you could write one (and its evil twin... double ballade), but I don't think you'll like it.
Between having to tell a story and the restrictions in the form I'm momentarily daunted.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

... I’ve just noticed that chapter 2 of my story A Barrow-load of Untold Tales is in aabb form, whilst the other 3 chapters are in abab... do you think it matters? Should I try to adjust it?

love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Your accidental change in pattern brought up an idea from the vaccume of my skull. Could not using a different rhyme pattern for each chapter be an interesting thing to do? It would reinforce the change in chapters and also keep the original pattern from becoming worn..........stan

Especially if you returned to a previous scheme. An alternating scheme more or less. Anymore, I have lightened up on how strictly I produce my poetry unless I am studying a very specific form. Then I am a machine. I think poetry is somewhere in the middle. Consistency enough to give it form, relaxed enough it tells the "story" with emotion.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

As long as its consistent within each part I don't see a reason to mess with it. I have found that major alterations like that to a piece just butcher it and take a massive amount of time to destroy it. Don't do it.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

The romantic period began around the late 18th century
and characterized art throughout the 19th. It concerned itself with the plight of the common man in relation to nature and the natural world. Previously, in the baroque period it was all about the monarchy, the nobility. Romanticism was all about the artist being an individual instead of being sponsored by a nobleman. Hence, the image of the starving writer still plying his art.
One of the new styles of the romantic period was to attempt to write poetry, music, painting and more that actually expressed the emotion of the subject matter.
Beethoven wrote "The Tempest" in an attempt to express the beginning of Shakespeare's play of the same name.
"The Raven" by Poe makes us nervous and uncomfortable.
The romantic changed the way we produce our art and for the moment, considering what and how we write, the beginning of the romantic era still effects everything we do.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

almost everyone thinks 'Romantic' means love poems. You are setting the record straight. Please re-post this as as blog or better still a forum.

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

I think it would be a wonderful forum subject, but I haven't a clue as to how to go about starting a conversation.
I'd like it to lead to a talk on different periods in poetry. Western and Asian.
What do you think?

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I have an experiment I want to try.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

and I'm all ears!!

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Wesley

You asked me to stop by so you could give me something to do. What did you have in mind

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

plus Paul and Barbara, oops, someone misses out, should form the next AC and become truly pro-active in Neopoet issues, such as discussed here plus chat and newsletter. Rula or Carrie, do you think you could take on the newsletter? I would help.

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

I would really like to do the newsletter as I am in need of something to do of a writing nature. What ideas do you have?

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

I scrape at your knees and support you in any way I can.
Check out Lou's last newsletter for an idea of some things that could be included. Maybe start a blog or forum to ask members what they would like. I will drag myself out of the depressive torpor I have been in to support you in this.
https://www.neopoet.com/node/4442
Remember, the trick is to get other people to make submissions, then all you have to do is write an editorial and format it.

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

figure out a way to drag yourself out of the depressive torpor you are in, please advise me as to how to drag myself out of the one I am. Ok. I will look and see what I can do.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

That it looks like up to me
Well, I've been down so very damn long
That it looks like up to me
Yeah, why don't one you people
C'mon and set me free
(The Doors)

Perhaps we can drag each other up Carrie. I'm excited about the newsletter but can't do it by myself and have many other Neopoet responsibilities.

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

You quoted one of my favorite bands and poets. Perhaps we can because I sure am struggling right now...I will review Lou's newsletters tonight when I get home and the kids are to bed.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

When I was younger Glenda had a music teacher of some quality. One of the exercises she had her students do is practice a given piece of music out of order. Play a section from the middle and then the beginning ending with the end. The larger the piece the more pieces played out of order. In this way the musician better understands the work in detail and not merely rote. Only with detailed understanding can a musical story be told.

So with literature, that thing that music emulates.
This is an exercise I do with my big poem. I write first the middle of a canto, then the beginning and lastly the obvious ending.
My challenge is to write an exposition first. It need not be in verse. It must be dramatically written- not merely a description. Write something that moves the reader. It must introduce a character or more, a locale and a time frame.
Keep it short. Not for brevity, but to force you to cram as much information in a little space as possible.

Next you will write a complication HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR EXPOSITION. It will be a free standing complication. The characters and locale and time frame are presumed to be known because obviously we've all read the nonexistent exposition.
Any questions?

The purpose is to learn to recognize what is needed in each of the elements.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

you want me to write a piece out of order (I am putting this in layman's terms as my mind is mush these days). I have an idea of what I would like to do. Something I would like to revisit, play around with, tweak....This might be a good exercise to do this with....So I can start in the middle and work from there is that it?

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

He thinks if he walks he will let go some of the tension.
Too many questions were going in his head. Is he going to pass this interview? What possibly that they are going to ask him? If he doesn't pass, how would he manage the monthly payments for his house? The collage for his eldest daughter and... the many other commitments? He never went through such a tough time, but he always has the faith that Allah will help. Yes Allah knows what we need and what we go through.
"I only need to concentrate and focus on whatever they might ask." He keeps telling himself. "I can do it." "This is my chance." "It could be my last chance." Just then, and while taking the first steps in to the building, he found himself face to face with one of his older acquaintances Ali. At that moment Saber couldn't hide his emotions. Astonishment shows clearly on his face. "No, not Ali." "Not today" and "Not after all these years." "What on earth could possibly bring him to the same company?"
"Will he remember me?"... "God, please help." Saber continues praying.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

do I post here or elsewhere

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

(Carrie, post right here. This is a laid back thing and not a workshop. We're playing with an old exercise of mine).

Rula, you were missing all the things the exposition would give. Now do a weird thing. How can you add just a little bit to the complication to do the job of the exposition? In comic books we do this all the time. We constantly repeat the exposition, but in smaller and smaller forms. This keeps the reader focused on who this is happening to. This is doubly important when switching between scenes.

Carrie, yes start in the middle. Write a complication in short form about characters we know nothing about. Just a complication. No climax. No resolution. Isolate what makes the complication the complication. Don't describe. Write. Literature. It doesn't have to be poetry.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I have added the locale and the time at the first three lines.

He is ready now to leave his appartment in the second floor. He looked into his watch, it is still seven. "It is still early" he said to himself . He thinks if he walks he will let go some of the tension. I have an hour before the interview time. Too many questions now are going in his head. Is he going to pass this interview? What possibly that they are going to ask him? If he doesn't pass, how would he manage the monthly payments for his house? The collage for his eldest daughter and... the many other commitments? He never went through such a tough time, but he always has the faith that Allah will help. Yes Allah knows what we need and what we go through."I only need to concentrate and focus on whatever they might ask." He keeps telling himself. "I can do it." "This is my chance." "It could be my last chance." Just then, and while taking the first steps in to the building, he found himself face to face with one of his older acquaintances Ali. At that moment Saber couldn't hide his emotions. Astonishment shows clearly on his face. "No, not Ali." "Not today" and "Not after all these years." "What on earth could possibly bring him to the same company?""Will he remember me?"... "God, please help." Saber continues praying.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

What was the complication? There was a lot of trouble going to happen, but there was one true complication. The rest are what I call wallowing in mud. Something happened that turned it to quicksand. What was it? And remember that the point of the exercise is to write the independent piece in an entertaining fashion. You became lost a little in his fears. You could have said the same thing in half the words.
Look at this again, but you know what's next.
Write a climax (a rip snorting climax) that has nothing to do with the other pieces.
When we're done with this exercise we will use it to write something in an unorthodox way.
Writing is a little like a puzzle. We put pieces together to make a poem, story or anything else. If we don't look at the pieces as individuals we are at the mercy of the tale itself. It will twist like a snake in our grasp if we can't break it down into its individual elements.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Suddenly, it starts to rain. A wind starts to blow. It hits the town. Lightening stricks here and there. Unequipped with umbrellas or trenchcoats, everyone in the street begins looking for a shelter to escape this unexpected thunderstorm.
Children, who were biking or board skating become afraid as they can not control their wheels. Vehicles of every type can't go any further as fog starts to lower the ability to see beyond two meters ahead.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

It's not finished though. A climax should lead to either another complication or a resolution. This tells a climatic tale, but doesn't go anywhere. If you have finished the climax it should be ready to move on. This tells me it's ready for more climax.
Does that make sense?
What you have is a beginning. Blow it apart. Someone gets hurt. Remember that even though you didn't write an exposition or complication for this you still have central characters. You don't have to describe them. That was done previously (in the nonexistent expo. and comp.). Don't forget to use them. As it stands the only character you have is the storm itself.
Each element should be able to stand alone with all of the characters involved.
This is important to understand when we try the next exercise.
Even though you are writing them separately they still must give the effect of moving on to the next element.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Throwing herself against the padded walls, scratching and tearing them with what was left of her bitten, broken nails, Victoria landed face first on the cold, unforgiving floor. Droplets of blood spattered the white tile as her bottom lip split. She dragged her fingers through the tiny pools leaving angry, crimson streaks. Who was he to throw her away like yesterdays trash? She had given him the best years of her life. Victoria screamed his name as she ripped the hair from her head. Crawling across the floor, snarling like a rabid dog, the rage came again. There were no objects to throw in her secluded "paradise," self-mutilation was all she had to release the internal pain she felt. Red eyed and bloody, Victoria charged at the iron door. As her head collided with its unbreakable exterior, she felt a sudden relief as consciousness escaped her. All that was beautiful flooded her mind for a brief moment, softly music played in the background. Perhaps this was the end.....

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

It doesn't matter. The only thing I miss is how she arrived in the first place. You could solve that with a single sentence I'm sure. Otherwise, it is a clean complication. We were given just enough information to want to see it through without it coming anywhere near a climax.
The Complication is the hardest of the four elements to work. This is where writing occurs. Importantly, we need more that one complication. We need our story to be complicated. You were asked to give us one complication. That's what happened, right? How many complications did you count? Oddly, I counted three.
Can you tell me what they are?
The point of this silly exercise (which by the way is not my idea) is to analyze the individual elements before we try to put them together. We have to figure out what key pieces are necessary to make each element work.
All four of these elements exist in everything we write whether we know it or not. The question is: do they work well individually and do they combine elegantly?

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Everyone knows who Jack "the King" Kirby was, right?
No? How about Captain America? Jack created him in 1941.
In a common Cap comic we would start with a single page of six squares. In these squares would be some low key conversation among any sort of characters. We turn the page and suddenly we have a two full page (splash page) picture of Cap leaping into the middle of a bunch of bad guys. Somewhere on the page is a note that says something like: "We know you're confused and we'd like to explain what's going on, but Cap's a little busy right now, so we'll catch you up as we go along".
Jack completely skipped the exposition, sometimes the complication and dove straight into a climax. Then later... he'd tell us what the hell just happened and why (except that as he told us he'd keep getting distracted by more climatic scenes.
The elements are individual pieces of a puzzle that don't have to follow in a specific order.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Victoria looked around. She had never been here before, than again, she had always been the stable one. They took her jewelry and her purse upon entry; made her change into a dressing gown. The medication she had been given when the ambulance came was starting to wear off. Her body began to shake from the inside out. Mid-thirties and her life was in shambles. She had dedicated the last seven years of her life to a filthy, unappreciative, egotistical waste of space who had really wanted a machine instead of a partner. Victoria looked at the crisp, white walls. The room smelled of bleach and sanitizer. She closed her eyes hoping the images that brought her here would be gone, yet they remained. He didn't have the balls to tell her to her face. He ended things over social media. As she read the message, her heart shattered into millions of pieces. The smug look on his face when he got home, as if he was teaching her some great lesson. Three days of hellacious fighting, they finally seemed to resolve a few things. After a night of making love, Victoria was sure they would be able to resolve things. Not so much. This morning had been bad. The argument started because she had gone Christmas shopping after work and left him with the kids. He had them all day since it was his day off but she had to get the shopping done while they weren't with her. He was vicious and hateful, completely unremorseful. He was glad the relationship was over. He did not want to get back together, nor did he want her. Victoria suffered through her day at work. She was so tired of putting on a brave face. The kids were with her mother. Victoria left work and returned home. It wouldn't be her home for much longer since she would be moving out. The less memories of him the better. She walked through the empty apartment, staring at the life they had built together, wondering how he could just toss it away like it never meant anything. She paused in front of the mirror and stared at her pale, gaunt face. Her own reflection had become unrecognizable. Victoria held her hand up to the glass, suddenly consumed with rage. With a violent, earth shattering scream, she put her fist through the mirror. Victoria continued to scream. She looked around wildly and saw a rather large piece of jagged glass laying on the sink. She picked up the glass and began hacking away at her arms, still screaming. The blood ran down her arms and into the sink. Victoria didn't feel a thing. She was numb from the inside out. Sirens blared in the background. Someone must have heard her scream....

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

There's a lot of complication here, but that's alright. We can start with a complication and bleed the exposition in. You also had a rather explosive climax. Too much information for a mere exposition. What it means is that you were unable to separate the three elements, but rather used them all. For actual writing it works, for the exercise... too much information.
Also, I suggest paragraphs. You've created a "wall of words" that makes it difficult to read. Just break it down into paragraphs and line breaks. Don't change a word.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I got carried away with emotion. I have an awesome climax planned later on :)

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

It’s Tuesday and I gotta mount that colt.
The groundwork’s not gone well~ he tends to bolt.
But I been paid and gotta get it done.
We need no more than walk…don’t wanna run.
He’s cinched up slow as always. That’s our way.
The greenhorns think he only wants to play.
They point with greenhorn fingers while they laugh
when flips his damn, fool head like some giraffe.
But somehow we get bridled ere it’s noon.
I think he’s only gazin’ at the moon
and settin’ up to take a careful aim.
He’s gonna launch me high and try to maim.
I gip him ‘til he’s hot and frothy brown
and then I work to pull his head aroun’.
He bites at me and damn near doesn’t miss
and now, of course, I need to take a piss.
This happens every time. Can’t tell you why.
The bladder fills up fast though mouth is dry.
Left foot to stirrup oughta light his wick
and just like that my right’s a pogo stick.
I’m up and pull his nose round to my knee,
then kick such dust that I can barely see.
He huffs and snorts with legs spread holding still.
I only need a minute if he will.
I stretch and try to pet him so he knows
ain’t nothin’ gonna harm him~ then he blows.
Once saw this colt kick both hind feet so high,
they both were four feet higher than his eye.
And now we’re sideways headin’ for chain link.
My heart, but most my bowels begin to sink.
This all is gonna hurt so awful much,
but frantically I try a gentle touch
and with a gasp that’s filled with fear of death
he stops and shivers while I catch my breath.
I stroke him whispering while he grunts and moans.
Slow words that have no meaning past their tones.
It takes a while before he starts to walk
and I just let him wander while I talk.
Then everything gets quiet for a bit.
I sit real still so’s not to cause a fit.
The hump beneath my backside wants to sag.
I think I feel his hind feet start to drag,
so I get off and count this as a win,
but pull his head to left~ he still could spin.
I’m suckin’ dust and thinkin’, “That went well.
He really coulda bucked me clear to Hell.”
Could be I’m much too old for all this crap,
but I’d not trade it for a quiet nap.
At lunch I’m gonna own up all my sin,
‘cause Wednesday we both do this all again.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I would call it " A Day of a Horse Whisperer" , maybe? Am I any close to what you wanted?
Has this anything to do to that accident you had a couple of years or so?
And then I wonder why haven't you streamed it as a separate piece?

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

I posted it here to see if anyone was listening. I don't need a response, but yours is nice.
"Once more into the breach" is Shakespeare. Henry the fifth has finally a horse (a horse, half my kingdom for a horse) and this begins his speech to his army right before they go into battle.
It didn't have anything to do with the accident, but the story is real. That's what I do for a living.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

This was a great write and as you may write a complete book on your ways, this will be an excellent part of your writings.
We have lost touch with this workshop, there is a need for a place to put these pieces up for critique, but not on a continuous stream as this is, The entries can be a Blog entry with the title then:- Storytelling in Verse (sempiternal) added.
As with the Cata series, and the others that wrote they have been forgotten, please do something or I shall have to resurrect Digit and Mog, and give them your address.
Yours Ian..

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

I'm currently writing an anthology and would love some advice and this workshop seems perfect,
Thanks,
Nick

Ian, this workshop is simply taking a break from the last two workshops Dramatic Verse and the collaborative shop both of which were run under the umbrella of Storytelling in Verse.
Very soon we will do it again with The Ballade. I'm going to give Stan his opportunity for the three part workshop and then we will begin.

In the meantime we have work to do.
Riotface has just asked to join and I welcome him (welcome Riotface).
The routine here is that we ask you to post what you have. The closer to a draft the better. Then we sick... um, call on our specialized crew (us, Ian, Rula, Mand and others). They will offer their critiques on the piece.
Don't be concerned with some length. We're used to long poems in these parts.
Post it as a poem and here. The reasons are these. We want to open the work to the full community for the widest array of critiques, but in this thread we will talk less about poetry than about storytelling.
Does that make sense? If you'd rather keep it here in this thread that's acceptable.
Anyway, we are ready for you. Post away and prepare yourself for a conversation.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Beginnings

Breathe
in the beginning there was nothing but breath
like gentle whispers it clung to the air
fragile,
like a small child clinging to their mothers arm

When I was a small child, to me, you were as beautiful
as the light casting crimson colors
of auburn, pink and red
across an ageing horizon

The chill in the winters air
would always give your breath life blood
illuminating the particles of grandeur
escaping your mouth

You stood tall
towering over complications
you were my savior
my christ

breathe, my dear
please
just breathe

Spilling air

The air spilled out of your mouth
with disintegrating passion
as you lay there gasping
just one more moment, I plead, one more

I looked to the woods for solace
for a comforting blanket
to cover the
weight this room brought with it

Yet no comfort was extended
and the only message I could decrypt
in the wind or the trees
was to be, just to be

and as the lifeblood seeped out of
the corners of your eyes
and light turned to stone

I planted a final kiss
on the icy skin of your forehead
a goodbye from ages past and I
Let
You
Go…

Sinking

The marks that you’ve left
scorched my earth
and as you left hope left also
lifting its fingers from my stubborn forehead

Did this not mean anything at all?

If there was a single moment
which, after introducing itself at the door
was turned away
then I’m sorry and I deserve this

but seeing the orchids
like a blind man
although not wrong
is slightly melancholic and out of place

You once told me if ever sinking to get lifeboats
or know how to swim
for this ocean is large
and can sometimes get quite cold

Father, I’m sinking now
and you were my lifeboat

Paris

You always perplexed me with notions of romanticism
Like the lamps of Paris
as they cast doubtful shadows on cobble pavements
as the mysterious lull of midnight serenaded the air

Let me now drive down alleys
Of narrow nostalgia, under bridges
Of notions, disproven, yet beautiful non-the-less
if only for this moment, this point in time

for to love is to lose
and I thought my stubborn fingers
would never part from your coarse skin
as we sat beneath the stars

could I not have fooled myself?
For one more quiet evening

Smiling

As a small child you made me smile like warm butter
and musical rather than cold, thoughts of home
waltzed from the far-reaching corners of the globe
and into my peripheries

The snow fell silently onto the mountaintops
and gods canvas was littered with
splashes of green
while the sky told a tale of beauty

Restless thoughts of you rushed in
like excited children I couldn’t calm them
for radiating in their energy
was a better fate than silence

In this moment I realised memory
had extended a warm gentle palm
as blue marbles spilled out of the corners of my eyes
not with sadness, but childlike awe

and my smile cracked open like the corners of the sun

I read this with care, I feel that there needs to be a story here.
The expressions are great and the flow sweet but where is the story it is hidden under lovely words.
You need a starting place either truth or myth, fact or fiction.
You have wandered across the pages with many good lines, these sort of poems, epic's or whatever need a structure.
Write out a structured sequence and then apply your words line by line, be born live and then stay at the top of life or fade away, in poetry it is our choice..
Yours as always Ian..

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

to this workshop soon.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

still can't post my poem in the workshop. I need you to add me in.

Alid

please add me in.

Alid

You're there
Welcome

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

First let me get the criticism out of the way:
"As a small child you made me smile like warm butter" (I have a problem with this line. Warm butter does not smile in any way. It flows, it cuts easily, but the metaphor doesn't work).

"and gods canvas was littered with" (if you are using "gods" as a personal pronoun it needs be capitalized. Also, it is possessive and needs the apostrophe. If you speak of the "gods", the powers of the Earth, you need the article "the" before "gods". I think you meant God).

Now, you must have attended the metaphor workshop because the poem is covered in them. Some quite special. It is a beautiful poem (even though I don't much care for verso libre), however I agree with Ian that it lacks story structure. The component parts are there (exposition, complication, climax and resolution), but they are not always clear. Sometimes the language itself is so full of "flowery lines" that we're not always sure what's happening.
In this workshop we are focused more on story than poetry. We let the poetry take care of itself.
Read it again as though you had never read it and see if everything (the internal logic) makes sense.
Remember, we need to go from point "A" to point "C" without skipping "B".
As to the length... don't be concerned. It is NOT a long poem. You would have to stretch it to a few thousand verse before you MIGHT call it a long poem.
Epopee (epic poetry) it is not.
There are too many characteristics of the epic that the poem is missing to be called epopee. Real length is one. Don't be afraid to expand this, change it.
By the way, I consider this true poetry and not prose with line breaks.
I look forward to your edits. I will read it all the way through each time you post an edit.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Can a poem already posted on the stream a few months back be re-submitted here. I had written one titled The Charlatan which might be more suited for this

We're off in our own little corner here and do what we want. Post it here and let's have a look at it.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I wonder if you know how much music is
poetry in motion acting out the words we
feel and expressing with emotion!
I love music and the rhythm of the beat.
Finding words that excite soften and blend
within our souls haunting and lending
depth to our being and inspiring others.
Poetry lifts our spirits, gives us pause to
consider the meaning of our lives,
binds us together in common synergy, and
grants peace and offers hope allowing
despair and sadness to be released.

Poetry is words in motion. Music is its own art and craft with an entirely different paradigm. Even lyrics to music are structurally different from poetry, which is not to say that lyrics aren't often very good poetry. Some really superb poetry has emerged from rap.

By the way, William, who is/are the 'you' you refer to? Everyone at Neopoet? Some imagined opposition? Think about it, who is/are the 'you'? At Neopoet we are mostly 'we', not me versus them.

The rest of what you say is a lovely poem in itself, though hardly inclusive of all poetry which can also be merely entertaining, humorous, pedagogic, self-revelatory, story-telling and more.

Thanks for this post which could be the seed for an informative dialogue.

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

> Even lyrics to music are structurally different from poetry...

I'd like to know how different lyrics in music can be from poetry

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

Lyrics can get away with poor meter because the singer can stretch or compress vowels to fit the music.
Line length tends to be more uniform because of the bar count.
Lyrics often use a great deal more repetition.

Look up the lyrics of a song you really like and read them off the page and tell me what you think. Generally speaking lyrics don't bear up structurally to poetry.

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

THIS WORKSHOP NEEDS TO FINISH.

It takes away from real ongoing workshops with a beginning, middle and end and especially a purpose.

I will argue this with you, Wesley, publicly or privately but it is detracting from real, valuable workshops.

I think it must end.

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

start a real workshop my friend. you are not even working on this one.

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

And I will do something here. I will write because that is what I need to do. If I am joined by others all the better, but in the meantime I will produce a story in verse and post it to the Stream as the workshop requires. If this doesn't happen... I will close the shop, but for now I need the growth and will find it if it means my end.

Join me and write a story in verse. You have done so before. Do so again. For me if for no other reason. Not to save the shop, but to do it.

I will invite others. I may end up alone. I shan't be lonely. I will be invigorated or die.
Welcome. Welcome all who would write with me.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

post it to the Stream and please close this workshop unless you are prepared to commit to really keeping it running with energy.

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

This isn't a travesty of a WS...
It is supposed to be a long term enterprise....

It takes time to write a story, and the inspiration for a long work comes and goes too
Love judy
xxx
.

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

I've had the crankies a fair bit lately.
Inappropriate reaction to more pain than usual. A lot more.
It's not going to get better so I've got to learn to deal with it better.

Thanks for keeping me... a bit nicer.
Edited the post.

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

I submitted my moving muses poem a while ago, and have been itching to edit it a little. This has given me the perfect opportunity to do so, and to ask if you feel up to ctitiquing it....
love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

I thought I would be the only participant. To have you show up heats the cockles of my heart. I will be posting what draft I have on a totally new piece in blank verse and would love to share critiques.
Welcome back my love. You have me excited.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

like I said to Judy, I've got to learn to deal with pain better.
Feel free to pull me up when I'm out of line.

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

I'm ready to look at storytelling in verse. How can I not when I was bought up on Beowulf. Lot of Norse blood in my neck of the woods. Jx

------------
Some great workshops at the moment.
Do you still have your first poem?
Then sign up to the 'Poets first poems' workshop.
Share your first poem with us all.

Can you reopen this workshop on a new stream page.
There can always be a referral to this long page of ideas and writes.
It takes far too long to filter through the comments of the past few years.
I am now Sparrow as Ian.T is in hiding somewhere.
I have several new epic type of poems to use so could we have a new start.
The new members would love to join in.
Take care young horse whisperer, and know we love you as always,
Yours, Ian.T, Sparrow and Yenti..

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

Free
A story in blank verse.

This is a story of Free as you knew him,
ere came the tale of the Mountain of List.
A tale of a pie and a wise little girl
of the sort we have seldom to know of.

Free walked in a wood (of which Stan often speaks
In his poems which have since turned to song).
A pastoral wood in which blooming’s begun
(as we know Stan would tell were he here).

A village was near and old Free knew the way
(although Free’s never been very old now)
And he followed a scent so much grander than blooms
which he’ll find with his finely tuned nose.

A sign he had passed but a short while ago
(oh no, not one with letters and words).
For strawberries ripened and that was the smell
that had drawn on that great angled beak.

This was the sort of the thing (you’ll recall)
that’s got him in trouble afore now.
(In fact it was just what had brought him such grief
In the Garden of Ash long ago).

But tell that to Free with pie in the air
and you might as well talk to the trees
(oh not the great Trees of the Mulberry woods,
for they will all listen and speak).

Now Free picked a flower to stick in his hair
(which was still long and black as a crow).
Not silver as moon beams as Tillian caused
on that fore mentioned Mountain of List).

He broke into song (as was always his wont
when in search of adventure or pie,
but we’ll not put words here for Loved knows them well
and she’ll sing them much better than I).

His hair was still long and will probably stay
In a state such as that ‘til he dies
(although you will tell me that never will be,
for Free is the sort that won’t cease).

His pants were worn loose for he’s thin as a rail
right down to his feminine hands,
but his eyes were as large as that pie plate he sought
or so it would seem to both you and to me.

This is a rough draft of a beginning. I have been trying to write a story about Free for years and this is the latest attempt. Please feel "free" to tell me what you think.
Judy, just post your rough drafts here and we'll talk about them. When you think you have something to post do so as a poem in the usual way. Like I said, we're pretty informal here and welcome anything rough you may produce.

I will be adding to Free when it comes by reposting the whole thing as I go. I recommend you do the same. Anything works here. We just want to see what you have no matter how long. Sometimes things can get pretty long, so you may become confused. Doesn't matter. Just post what you have here until you're ready to post on the Stream.
Most of all... have fun doing it.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I think we should post to the stream
Jess suggests it, and I agree
It makes for less clutter on the WS page, leaving it easier to follow the shop's education, suggestions, etc.

All the poems in the shop are available for viewing, at the top of the shop page, as long as people remember to hit the WS button before publishing.

Also, it makes it easier to follow changes, which are an important part of learning to write and critique, as they can be followed via the revisions tab on the poem, rather than scrolling through the (now huge) WS page........

Will be back to critique your write soon
Love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

If I can figure it out.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Same as any workshop poem.
When submitting the poem scroll down to the 'Workshop' square, select the drop list and select 'Storytelling in Verse (sempiternal)'.

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

Feeling abit down of late, but I'll try to catch up.

Alid

Back soon.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Old chap.
See you soon.
Jx

------------
Some great workshops at the moment.
Do you still have your first poem?
Then sign up to the 'Poets first poems' workshop.
Share your first poem with us all.

And if so should I post here or on stream?..........stan

this thread is already unreasonably long.
Remember when submitting the poem scroll down to the 'Workshop' square, select the drop list and select 'Storytelling in Verse (sempiternal)'.

Cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Members Coordinator
Contact me or the AC with any queries or problems.

Will combine 2 part poem already on stream and label it correctly......stan

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