About workshops

Workshops on Neopoet are groups that meet for a certain period of time to focus on a certain aspect of poetry. Each workshop participant is asked to critique all the other poems submitted into a workshop. A workshop leader helps coordinate -- they set the agenda, give participants feedback on whether their submissions and critique are at they level expected of them, and after the workshop is over, give feedback to participants. 

To join a workshop, first find one that is of interest to you. Once you have found the right workshop (and verified that it is open -- you can find this out in the description below), you can apply to join the workshop.


Join the Neopoet online poetry workshop and community to improve as a writer, meet fellow poets, and showcase your work. Sign up, submit your poetry, and get started.

fixed verse – it's not a curse

Status: 
Program description/goal: 

Description: Context can be critical to poetics. For example, poetry that records historic events in epics, such as Gilgamesh, will necessarily be lengthy and narrative, while poetry used for liturgical purposes (hymns, psalms, sutras and hadiths) needs to have an inspirational tone. Elegy and tragedy are meant to evoke deep emotional responses, while comic is supposed to provoke laughter.

Various forms of poetry have been ‘invented’ throughout history, as poets have attempted to find the most appropriate and effective way to use sound to present their message.

Poetic form refers to various sets of "rules" followed by poems of certain types. The rules may describe such aspects (amongst many others) as the rhythm or meter of the poem; its rhyme scheme; use of (for example) repetition or alliteration, even length.

This workshop will be an ongoing (superficial) examination of various forms within the ‘western’ tradition, in which we will simply take one at a time and, after a short discussion to ascertain its purpose, attempt to write one ourselves (or more if we so desire).

Leader: judyanne

Moderator(s): wesley snow

Objectives: The goal of this workshop is to familiarise ourselves with various types of poetry in order to raise our awareness as to the effectiveness of different forms to deliver different messages. It is also the goal of this workshop to practice our iambic/ trochaic, in preparation for a future sonnet workshop.

Level of expertise: Open to all

Subject matter: A form of poetry will be presented once a week. It will not be necessary for you to try every form if you join the shop – merely the ones that interest you. It will be necessary, however, to contribute to short discussions and comment on any poems posted by others in the shop.

Please note: the AC has changed it so Workshop postings no longer count in the one-poem-to-be-submitted-a-day rule. Members can post as many workshop contributions as they need to and still post a poem a day.

Length: 
100 days
Number of participants (limit): 
100 people
Date: 
Sunday, October 28, 2012

Comments

just if you and Wes accept me
I know you don't mind

Thanks in advance.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

going to help in the other workshop too..That's why I am really anxious to join.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

you are not only always welcome, your participation is always appreciated
love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

Lovely judy

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Mind if I join?

you are in and more than welcome
love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

Thank you so much.

I'm joining to learn

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

great to see you
love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

I'll love to be a part of this too. :)

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

great william
love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

I'm joining to get back in the swing of things. I've been gone for too long an haven't written anything in that time. I'm going through a rough patch and I'm now to the point where I want to write about it, so I want to reaquaint myself with the community, hone my skills and learn new ones, and hopefully oil the metaphorical rust that's built up in my long period of poetic abstanence.

i hope the shop will be of use to you and you won't be disappointed :)
love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

I doubt I will be disappointed. Lol

Although the shop isn’t starting until next week I thought I would begin discussion as we lead up to our first form.

Before we can start any shop to do with poetry form, we need to refresh ourselves regarding meter and line count

 

Metrical feet may be two or three syllables in length, and are divided by slashes: |

 with metered poetry we count the feet not the syllables

There are six basic rhythms:

Iamb/Iambic  - | ta dum  | be-cause |…  a foot consists of an unstressed syllable followed by a stressed one

Trochee/Trochaic = | dum ta | dead-line | … a foot consists of a stressed syllable followed by an unstressed one

Anapest/Anapestic = | ta ta dum |  to the park | … a foot consists of three syllables two unstressed followed by a stressed

Dactyl/Dactylic =| dum ta ta | fre-quent-ly | … a foot consists of three syllables one stressed followed by two unstressed

Spondee/Spondaic = | dum dum | true blue | … a foot consists of two stressed syllables

Pyrrhic =| ta ta  | what if | a foot consists of two unstressed syllables

– spondaic and pyrrhic are merely mentioned here for interest sake – one can find them within one or two lines of a poem, but they never would be used to write the whole thing

 

Line count – A line is the regular succession of feet

 The correct terminology is actually verse

That is, a line of poetry is called a verse

Two or more verses of poetry are called stanzas

 

monometer - one foot to the verse

dimeter – two feet to the verse

trimeter  - three feet to the verse

tetrameter- four feet to to the verse

pentameter – five feet to to the verse

hexameter - six feet to the verse

heptameter seven feet to the verse

octameter – eight feet to the verse

 

for example

iambic tetrameter = ta dum | ta dum | ta dum | ta dum … (four feet of iambic)

trochaic pentameter = dum ta | dum ta | dum ta | dum ta | dum ta … (five feet of trochaic)

anapaest trimeter = ta ta dum | ta ta dum |ta ta dum … (three feet of anapaest)

dactyl dimeter = dum ta ta | dum ta ta … (two feet of dactyl)

….. and so on

 

please feel free to add anything you may think important, or any questions you may have

 

love judy

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

and as usual very well organized . Thank you
Now my question is:

When we usually write, should we decide first decide what metrical feet should we use?

Well, I expect the answer to be yes, because I have tried many times to do it roughly first then change my rubbish -which follows no definite metrical feet you've mentioned then change to a definite one, let's say ,iambic trimiter or whatever, but found it very difficult if not impossible. I failed. This is simply what happened with me when I wrote my lengthy piece "The Arrogant" where I built on the story without paying much attention to the meter but later I couldn't change to something ....you know can be read smoothly. 

 

Thanks in advance.

One more :)

How do you make the slash between the metrical feet?Is it a a capita I?

Thanks again

 

 

 

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

that one needs to choose a meter when composing. Setting a meter or changing it afterwards is horrible hard work.

I made the mistake of setting an exercise in an earlier meter workshop where we tried to change a poem from one meter to another. Everyone went spare, few did it successfully, and I'm sure everyone hated me for it. [grins]

A hint. If you decide on a particular meter for a work, whether for its innate sound or to fit a fixed form, read some examples of that meter out loud first, you can find them easily by Googling.

That vertical slash | is shift \ on a qwerty keyboard, but a normal / is acceptable.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

Ditto to what jess said
But also, I think it is really important to decide on the meter before beginning the write, because it is important for the feel of the work.

Each meter conveys a different motion. For example, iambic pentameter can have a gentle, sombre, serious tone, whereas iambic tetrameter has more of a playful or spirited mood.

Anapaest has a skipping movement, trochaic can be ponderous, and mixed rhythms – (eg tetrameter alternating with trimeter) gives a song (iambic) or a march (trochaic) effect.

(all dependent somewhat on word choice)

The choice of meter is important for the delivery of different messages.

One suggestion I have when trying to fit meter, is to write what you want to say first, then dum ta dum, or dum ta ta (or whatever) your way around and through, moving words around and adding and taking away as you go… (Does that make sense?)

(And the ‘|’ is found under the ‘backspace’ – three to the right of the ‘p’ - on the keyboard)

love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

Hi Judy!

May I join? I would love to push my limits here. I've been having a crisis of faith in the poetry area and this workshop seems ideal for discipline and straight-forward composition.

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

In its various forms, the quatrain is as old as poetry itself. It appears in poems from the poetic traditions of various ancient civilizations including Greece, Rome, China  and the Middle East.

Simply put, a quatrain consists of four lines of verse, written in specific meter. It can be a stanza, or a complete poem The rhyme scheme can be aaaa, aabb, or abab

There are many forms of quatrains, used for various purposes. Here is a list of some of them.

Decasyllabic quatrain is a term used for a poetic form in which each stanza consists of four verses of ten syllables each, usually with a rhyme scheme of aabb or abab.It can be written in any meter of choice

The decasyllabic or Sicilian quatrain, written in iambic pentameter with an alternating rhyme scheme is often referred to as the heroic quatrain.

example - John Dryden’s

And now | 'tis time; | for their |  of- fice | ious haste,
Who would | be-fore | have borne | him to | the sky,
Like eag | -er Rom | -ans ere | all rites | were past
Did let | too soon | the sac | -red eag | -le fly.

 

Alternating Quatrain - a four line stanza rhyming abab.

Envelope Stanza- a quatrain with the rhyme scheme abba, such that lines 2 and 3 are enclosed between the rhymes of lines 1 and 4.

In Memoriam Stanza- an envelope stanza written in iambic tetrameter

Redondilla- a Spanish form written in tetrameter with any of three rhyme schemes: abba, abab or aabb.

Italian Quatrain - an envelope stanza written in iambic pentameter.

Hymnal Stanza- an alternating quatrain that is written in iambics. Lines 1 and 3 are iambic tetrameter, and lines 2 and 4 are iambic trimeter. It is also a form of the Common Measure which rhymes abcb

Ballads - vary with the style. They were ofiginally written for dance, but the form was picked up by various poets and reworked to their liking. .

Most northern and west European ballads, for example literary ballads, are written in ballad stanzas (quatrains) of alternating lines of iambic tetrameter and iambic trimeter, known as ballad meter. The rhyme scheme can be aabb, abab, abcb

eg The Rime of the Ancient Mariner

‘God save | thee, an | cient Mar| in - er,
From fiends|  that plague | thee thus!
Why look'st | thou so?| With my | cross-bow
I shot | the Al| bat - ross.

however the rules aren’t strict when writing lengthy pieces and trochaic is sometimes mixed

Wa -ter, | wa - ter, |  ev – ery | where,
And all the boards did shrink;
Water, water, everywhere,
Nor any drop to drink.’

 

bush ballads

Banjo Patterson, for example, in his Man From Snowy River, used octameter and hexameter alternating pyrrhic and trochaic feet

There was|  move - ment | at the | sta tion, |  for the | word had | passed a | round /
That the | colt from | old Re | gret had | got a | way...
 

and there are blues ballads, , even ballad operas…

We’ll stick to those that use the quatrain for now, but do look them up

                      

Rubāʿī" is the Arabic term for "quatrain"
The verse form aaba as used in English verse is known as the Rubaiyat Quatrain

an example is Robert Frost's poem Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening

Whose woods these are I think I know.
His house is in the village though;
He will not see me stopping here
To watch his woods fill up with snow.

and probably just as well known, Fitzgerald's translation of the Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám

Moving Finger writes: and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

 

Englyn is a traditional Welsh and Cornish short poem
there are are eight types

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Englyn

 

and, for interest, check out Shairi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shairi

I think we’d need a whole workshop for that one..

 

as we all are so familiar with writing the quatrain, we won’t worry about exercises on them per se – but they are important to our knowledge when writing longer verse in form, thus I am mentioning them before we begin

- but do feel free to throw in one or two if you so desire

cheers Judy

 

 

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

and useful indeed. I am happy you've mentioned the Rubaiyat Quatrain too.
I shall submit a short piece. Not a big deal but it could be a good practice on mixed meter . (trimeter and tetrameter)

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Please sing me up for this workshop

---------------------------------------------------------

Jonathan Moore

Annoying the world, one person at a time

(Group discounts available)

lol i'll sign you up - singing isn't my forte
:)
love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

I thought we might start with a few of the French poems. 

The modern French language does not have a significant stress accent. This means that the French metric line is generally not determined by the number of beats, but by the number of syllables.

However, true to the spirit of this workshop I would like us to attempt to keep to counting feet when writing these forms

we’ll begin with a couple of the easier ones, starting with the quatern

 

quatern is a classic French rhyming form consisting of 4 quatrains.

Each verse is usually written in iambic tetrameter, although, in modern usage, iambic pentameter is often used. There is no prescribed rhyme scheme.  

The distinguishing characteristic of this form is the repeating descending line, so that line one of the first quatrain becomes line two of the second, line three of the third, and line four of the final stanza.

example – (note I have used feminine lines as well)

With pencil, pen, and paintbrush, too
while colours flow in constant flux
I re-create the dream anew -
its mountains, valleys, rivers, hillocks

With tools that have been gifted me -
with pencil, pen, and paintbrush, too -
I can creatively, aptly
intensify my life's tattoo

and virtue true, no doubt, accrue
if I can keep to bright-lit highways
With pencil, pen, and paintbrush, too
I'll capture shades, my soul ablaze

then after passing of the eons
with comet tails, I’ll paint new hue
to harmonies from all the seasons
of pencil, pen and paintbrush, too

an easy one - go for it

 

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

but I think we are the bright ones, aren't we guys? :)

P.s .I think your lines are really great!

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

for someone who doesn't follow any of the meters that you've mentioned above; no iambic or trochaic....etc. How do you judge the meter and the flow of the rhythem?
Does my question make any sense?

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

your question doesn't make sense to me... can you clarify it a bit?

there has to be meter – and I explained the different meters above…

sorry if I’m thick
please ask again
love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

let me explaine

now if I don't write pure iambic or pure trochaic ,anapestic ,dactylic...etc. how do you judge the meter if it is flows smoothly or otherwise?

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

well I really don’t think it will flow smoothly

there has to be meter

you can mix meter (being really careful with the transitions) but there still has to be meter

and judging the flow – well, it's all on how it reads…

sorry, I know I’m not being helpful here – I’m not sure I’ve answered your question even yet…

keep asking – we’ll get there eventually
love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

This is one of my oldest writings , before learning anything about meter. How do you decide how it flows /reads ? Can we do it by simply count the stressed / unstressed syllables?

Shame on a destiny
that puts tears in eyes
draws fear and agony
instead of smiles.

Shame on a destiny
that grows weeds ‘n thorns
urges no songs to relief
some anguished souls.

Shame on that destiny
and shame on it again
if steals our pleasures
and leaves us in pain.

Shame on that destiny
if only comes to blow
blissfulness and dreams
we earlier sought.

And if we don’t fight to restrain it,
then shame on Me and You

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

I am too late to join but maybe not too late to help with this question. (or at least add to the confusion lol) For a true beginner the easy way to judge whether or not the meter or mixed meter works is to read it out loud and hear if there are pauses where they sound natural. In my opinion meter can be considered as a method of furnishing punctuation without actually having to punctuate (sorry Wes)
A well written poem has the needed pauses "built in" by judicious use of language and reads without awkward pauses .
Now I'll duck behind this wall to avoid the vollies Judy and Wes are probably preparing to send my way lol.....stan

but take foot out of mouth please regards ability to join here - it is not too late to join this workshop - it is ongoing and one may come and go as they please (you may note that it is still at the enrolling stage)

you have a point in saying to read a work aloud - both jess and i have said that already... but one must be very careful to read as one would speak naturally - not to fit the stresses to the rhythm as the poem's rhythm needs

love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

I had a problem with the smoothness in

'urges no songs to relief'
and
'we earlIer sought'

and the poem itself is so mixed in meter that I find it hard to see a pattern throughout

it works on the whole for rhythm, but you can’t claim any set meter, thus you can’t claim it fixed verse… at least not 'classic' - but we all know frost mixed his meter don't we

try breaking it into feet and see what I mean

love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

Shame on | a des | ti - ny –

that puts | tears in | eyes

 draws fear | and ag | on -y

 in stead | of smiles.

and then check if the following stanzas follow the pattern you have set...

xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

as I said it was a year ago before knowing even that there is something called meter LOL
I don't know how do people around could read me or bear with my words.
I'll break it into feet but only OFF LINE so no one will see how bad I was.:)

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

rhythm was fine

mixed meter is fine - you just have to be careful to follow what you set, and take care in the transitions - word usage, thought process...

and remember - feet not syllables

xxx

 

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

it really helps to read examples of metered verse aloud while reading the parsed verse. Do it with a few different meters and you will soon develop an 'ear' for it.
Try googling
examples iambic meter
examples trochaic meter
etc

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

I believe this is a talent by it self. I don't think my EARs have this talent. Maybe a regular training might strengthen it
now my question is

Do you really read out loud each poem you compose or you're planning to crit. ?

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

doesn't everybody?
poetry is an aural aesthetic - like music, it is for the ear

- only beethoven could hear a symphony in his head

love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

and I often read aloud other peoples poems, especially if the language use is exceptional or I am having trouble discerning where scansion is not working.

I live alone now but for years my flatmates thought I was nuts, reciting poetry aloud at all hours.

Definitely recommended.Reading aloud is the exercise you need to train your ear, it can be learned, it's not an innate talent.

Take note anyone struggling with meter.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

Note taken. The advice you gave me earlier worked, but I still need some more practice. My writing has been particularly poor lately.

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

should we follow a 100% iambic or it's alright to cheat sometimes?(by adding an article or a preposition or so)

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

to keep to iambic or trochiac... if you feel adventurous maybe try a verse of so of anapaest or dactyl

but remember, the secondary purpose of the workshop is to practice our meter

love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

perhaps this will help

when you write a poem, parse it

then read it aloud, being sure to put the emphasis on the stresses as you have parsed them

so often we will make the mistake of putting the stress on a word as we expect it to be, as we get carried along in the rhythm of the poem, not where the stress actually is in everyday speech

as you read it, when you then put a stress on a syllable you have parsed as unstressed, or vice versa, you will see and hear where the meter is out

and as far as writing mixed meter - if an iambic foot followed by a trochaic foot (for example) still sounds ok if you are stressing the words correctly, then I would say the meter is ok (unless you are attempting a sonnet or other fixed form)

one's mind may not hear it, but the ears will, especially with the visual reminder

is that a little clearer?
love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

thank you
Indeed this helps. I usually parse , but I have recently (after jess's advice) to read loudly . I think with time it's going to work.Hopefully. :)

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

not either or. When you see

And now | 'tis time; | for their |  of- fice | ious haste,
Who would | be-fore | have borne | him to | the sky,
Like eag | -er Rom | -ans ere | all rites | were past
Did let | too soon | the sac | -red eag | -le fly.

 

read it aloud, over emphasising those stressed syllables. That's what makes the eye/ear connection.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

no matter what you write, it can be scanned (parsed) in poetic terms. You can "assign" a specific term to any part of any line. The more mixed the meter becomes, the more varied these "assignments" will be, so that you will scan a particular part of the poem in multiple ways.
Confusing, right?
If you read each word with its correct stress and can assign multiple poetic feet to each segment of a line, that alone will tell you if your poetry reads choppy. The more you multiply the ways a line can be scanned, the more difficult it becomes to read as different readers will read it differently. A smooth and elegant poem will give you (generally) only one way to scan it. It will be obvious.
If it is not obvious, there are likely problems with the meter.

And just for fun... I usually decide on a subject matter for a poem first, write an opening line and allow that line to determine the meter for the rest of the poem. This of course does not take into account the poetic forms I attempt for practice and experimentation.
One last... I don't necessarily read my poems aloud, but I do "read" them in my head. In other words, I SAY the words in my head. I took a speed reading class once that taught me how to read multiple sentences at a glance, but that does not allow me to "hear" the rhythm. Many people do this instinctively. Stephen Hawkins once said he seldom actually uses words in his head to think and bypasses them with concepts resorting to "words" only when the concept becomes truly original.
That is a much faster way to think and likely why theoretical physicists can tackle the concepts they do, but it is anathema for poets.
wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions sir.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

 

The rondeau is a 15 verse poem divided into 3 stanzas,

stanza 1  –  five verses  (quintain)
stanza 2  –  four verses (quatrain)
stanza 3   – six verses     (sexain / sestet)

It is written in iambic or trochaic tetrameter

The rhyme scheme is  aabba aabR aabbaR. 

The R denotes the refrain line and these are shorter verses (iambic dimeter) derived from the first words of verse one

In some other French forms we can get away with writing a feminine line (using an extra iamb - unstressed last syllable – at the end of an iambic verse) as I did in the previous exercise in quaterns, but not with the rondeau.

The French stress of the rondeau is written in verses of 8 and 4 syllables (remember – they count syllables, we are counting feet) and an extra beat would defeat the purpose of the rhythm gained with this form.

 

example

when worlds unite, when hearts adhere
complexions glitter dewdrop clear
while heaven sends a new content
the sod below sighs verdant scent
when energy of love is near

and disappears forsaken fear
as souls connect to pioneer
a fairy tale of wonderment
when worlds unite

even bards like William Shakespeare
have trouble paintng clear revere
waxed emotions glossed to poignant
trust awakes and buzzes vibrant
then takes away the harsh veneer
when worlds unite

 

.

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

please try to remember to go to the workshop stream at

http://www.neopoet.com/workshop/view/10036

to check for any workshop poems to review, before going to the main stream

we should check all the streams of workshops in which we are participating, and review those poems before those in the main stream

the workshop streams are easy to find - the first poem and the link to the stream is on the right hand side of the workshop page itself

love judy
xxx
 

 

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

another French form

consists of two stanzas of eight verses each

The rhyme scheme is aBabccbB, ababddbB where the capital B denotes the repeated line that rhymes with the lowercase b

(you might be starting to notice that French verse is all about repetition)

The syllable counts are 8-4-8-4-8-8-8-4 (remember, the French count syllables)

– remember though, we are counting feet so we will write ours in tetrameter and dimeter

example

I hope I do not sound blasé
we should not mourn
when loved ones pass through death's dim way
and leave us worn
the day we're born to this classroom
we know the journey's womb to tomb
from birth, our leaving here pre-warned
we should not mourn

by everyone one feels betrayed
such pain be borne
and life that once was pure bouquet
is now all thorn
but every loss will serve remind
to cherish what is left behind
while who have gone, new life adorns
we should not mourn

.

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

I thought we'd do a different meterical feet like the anapestic or dactylic , just for a change and to give it a hand , just thought I'd suggest it. (Don't mean though to violate your plans.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

i did so with the last exercise (someday he will come) although it ended up mixed, as it is very hard to keep to the same pattern throughout

go ahead and try if you wish - you'll notice in the exercise that i just said tetrameter and trimeter - no mention of iambic or trochiac

it'll be good to attempt some of the other
just as long as we continue to count feet not syllables

love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

Between the fibers
of this page,
an ancient magic
has been laid

Pressing leaves
with mystical power,
kissing the corners
to grow sunflowers

Cherish a word
a wish or rhyme,
making it grow
deep in your mind

Taking the letters
that are your divine,
weave them into
a master design

Make your own mold
and pour yourself in,
to not be yourself
is the greater of sins

Feel the earth
beneath your feet,
build your own kingdom
a heartlands retreat

With the gift of hands
you can shape a world,
and the only barrier
is what your mind holds

Sowing the seeds
you collected through life,
tend them with love
they will flourish with light

Dream with your heart
and ever be true,
the universe will gather
just to know you

After searching for faults
letting pride blind my eyes,
I stripped off all masks
to soar a blue sky

Now planting my seed
with love in my sight,
I wish it to flourish
a precious long life

Covering these pages
in tendrils sublime,
Thus binding loves magic
I send it through time

tear it apart while I am gone lol

Thanks Judy xxx

("Always and Forever") - (Never lose a holy curiosity.-Albert Einstein)

"that are (yours) divine," I believe the word is used possessively and don't forget not to use the apostrophe.

Otherwise, as a collection of quatrains, I like it. However, Judy is likely going to give you grief for the free use of meter (and rightfully so). But I like the gentle uplifting nature of the thing, something I can't do. I need misery and horror or something close to it.
I'll let Judy suggest that you should post it in workshop submissions.
On to your quatern.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

the pantoum is a series of quatrains, any number of stanzas, that follow a repeating pattern

the second and fourth verses of each stanza are repeated as the first and third verses of the next.

so the verses (lines) of the stanzas would read as follows

1,2,3,4
2,5,4,6
5,7,6,8
7,9.8,10 and so on

the final stanza differs in the repeating pattern....
as well as the first and third verses of the last stanza being the second and fourth of the penultimate (second to last stanza) the first verse of the poem is the last verse of the final stanza, and the third verse of the first stanza is the second of the final.

so if using the the four stanzas above
the last stanza should be

9,3,10,1

example   (mixed meter I know – let’s have some leniency with this one)

when I moved house

dammit you know they have not yet arrived
it's still only me and Louise I stress
the selfish bitch won't advise the triad
to where I have moved and my new address

it's still only me and Louise I stress
my other muses don't know where I am
to where I have moved and my new address
only one has found me, the rhyming fan

my other muses don't know where I am
and all day all I do is think in rhyme
only one has found me, the rhyming fan
Louise just gets her way now all the time

and all day all I do is think in rhyme
there's no-one here to counter-act her style
Louise just gets her way now all the time
I give her a damn inch she takes a mile

there's no-one here to counter-act her style
I don't think I can go on much longer
I give her a damn inch she takes a mile
(of Louise I am growing less fonder)

I don't think I can go on much longer
and just as I'm about to do her in
(of Louise I am growing less fonder)
something we've done catches my attention

and just as I'm about to do her in
I look back at what we have been writing
something we've done catches my attention
with Louise I am no longer fighting

I look back at what we have been writing
- 'tho I need to check with muses who know -
with Louise I am no longer fighting
I believe we just wrote a pantoum. No?

'tho I need to check with muses who know
right now they don't know where I am living
I believe we just wrote a pantoum. No?
Louise knows zilch re the literary thing

right now they don't know where I am living.
and this rhyme, will it desist any time?
Louise knows zilch re the literary thing
she just wants to go on with rhyme on rhyme

and this rhyme, will it desist any time?
The selfish bitch won't advise the triad
she just wants to go on with rhyme on rhyme
dammit you know they have not yet arrived
 

cheers
judy

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

pieces are getting longer. I was sure you're leading us to Wesley's storytelling workshop:)

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

it doesn't have to be this long - lol
it can be as long or as short as you like...
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

I think the form effectively works when it goes long . I shall try to make it this long . I bet Wesley will feel a bit satisfied now. (((smiles)))

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

i hadn't thought of wesley - he might not be able to stop
((((smiles wes))))
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

... I need one hundred verses just to get up speed.
Now I just need an idea simpler than my octogram.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

We’ll take a break over the holiday season, so this exercise will be the last before the new year.

Hopefully this will give us a chance to take a breath and check we’ve commented on all the poems in the shop.

It may also give those who haven’t had a chance to contribute, to perhaps have a bit of time to peruse the exercises and maybe try one or two

so, back to a more simple form… and we’ll pick up again in the first week or so of January

triolet

a small poem of only one stanza containing eight verses (octect)

rhyme scheme ABaAabAB where the capital letters denote repeated verses

It's usually written in iambic tetrameter or pentameter

 

we could challenge ourselves here, so if you so desire, write as many stanzas as you like.

 However, each stanza will need to be related in some way to the others, as well as able to stand as a poem on its own

 

example

he hurts himself so purposely
to see if he can summon pain
and carves her name for her to see
he hurts himself so purposely
and numbly, proudly, bloodily
surveys the damage with disdain
he hurts himself so purposely
to see if he can summon pain

she watches, as he cuts his arm
awakening fills her dark-lashed eyes
as her initials join the harm
she watches, as he cuts his arm
a silent bell, a dull alarm
ignored, it's too far to descry
she watches, as he cuts his arm
awakening fills her dark-lashed eyes

in co-dependent unison
he cuts his arm, she watches him
together, separate, one prison
in co-dependent unison
existing in their red dungeon
he lives, she feels, but light is dim
in co-dependent unison
he cuts his arm, she watches him

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

I've been ill and I'm trying to slip in quietly... then I get this poem, this triolet thing. Is that yours? Wow, you have been staying up way too late at night writing young lady.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

you might be right wes
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

Is there still room to join, please? If not, I will just happily sit and paddle my toes and try not to be envious.

Jenifer

yes, you are most welcome. I will add you to the participants list. Please remember when submitting a poem to the workshop near the bottom of the page is a Workshop droplist, choose 'fixed verse" and it's also a good idea to add in brackets which particular form you are attempting to the title.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

welcome
please feel free to try out any of the forms that have been discussed so far
i look forward to your writes
love judy
xxx

and thanks jess, but you added Frenchf instead of jenifer -i think
i have deleted frenchf - do add her again if i missed her request...
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

hi all…
 

I hope everyone had a great Christmas and new year.

I thought we might start the shop up again with a form to have a bit of fun with … the minute poem… created by Verna Lee Hinegardner, once poet laureate of Arkansas.
 

The Minute Poem consists of 12 lines of 60 syllables written in strict iambic meter.

The poem is formatted into 3 stanzas of one verse of tetrameter and three of dimeter.

The rhyme scheme is: aabb, ccdd, eeff.

The Minute Poem is narrative poetry. It is a 60 syllable verse form, one syllable for each second in a minute. The theme should be an event that is over and done completely, as in a minute.

Since the dominant line is short the effect is likely humorous, whimsical or semi-serious.

 

example

that lady luck is what I lack
at horse race-track
with starting gun
the ponies run

an Arab grey has greater speed
than does my steed
around the turn
the sod they churn       

to finish line, the grey has won
I’m left undone
my money’s gone
I'm overdrawn

.

 

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

of one verse of tetrameter and three of trimeter.

But your example is of one verse of tetrameter and three of dimeter. I gather this is optional or a variant?

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

i keep doing that - writing trimeter when i mean dimeter
i guess i'm more used to the tetrameter/ trimeter mix than the tetrameter/ dimeter
anyways - thanks for the heads up
it needs to have sixty syllables - i'll fix the mistake in the exercise
- lol - glad you're keeping an eye on me xxx
.

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

The villanelle is a nineteen-verse poem of two rhymes only, made up of five triplets with a closing quatrain.

The poem is characterized by having two refrains that are initially used in the first and third lines of the first stanza,  and then alternately used at the close of each subsequent stanza, until the final quatrain which is concluded by the two refrains.

Thus the rhyme scheme reads

A1, b, A2
a, b, A1
a, b, A2
a, b, A1
a, b, A2
a, b, A1, A2
- where A1 and A2 denote repeating and rhyming verses

example

wind through wattle’s perfume to me whispers
pure essence enticing taste-buds to spread
visions of old god’s and ambrosias

emulating honeyed-nests of lovers
as eighty angels dance in each flower-head
wind through wattle’s perfume to me whispers

Independent yellow-haired Septembers
down in the land of the Waratah bred
visions of old gods and ambrosias

with the wattle Australia remembers
endurance, by its floral emblem led.
wind through wattle’s perfume to me whispers

image of  strength, influential flower’s
symbolic qualities of health that fed
visions of old gods and ambrosias

and with the choice of the rainbow’s colours
from all the golds the best segregated
wind through wattle’s perfume to me whispers
visions of old god’s and ambrosias

..

cheers 
judy xxx
.
 

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

this will be the last exercise in this workshop… and I’d like to thank everybody who participated, especially Rula, who should get a medal for loyalty (((smiles)))

 

The Rhyme Royal Stanza or Rime Royal was originally written for ceremonies celebrating the entry of royals into the city and was also used in mock ceremonial festivals put on by guilds.

The form has roots in 13th century France. It was later used in England by Chaucer in his Trolius and Criseyde and is sometimes called the Chaucerian Stanza or Trolius Stanza. But, because King James chose this form for some of his writings, royalty won out and the more popular name became Rhyme Royal.

Rhyme Royal is lyrical verse that is flexible and can be written as a narrative. It can also be written as a commentary or literary burlesque.

The rhyme royal stanza consists of seven verses, usually in  iambic pentameter. The rhyme scheme is a-b-a-b-b-c-c.

In practice, the stanza can be constructed

1. as a tercet and two couplets (a-b-a, b-b, c-c)
eg
Chaucer ‘s Canterbury Tales, for example from the Prioress' Tale

Among these children was a widow's son,
A little scholar seven years of age,
Whose daily wont was to this school to run;
And if he chanced to see at any stage                      
An image of Christ's mother, he'd engage
In that which he was taught: he'd kneel and say
His Ave Maria ere he went his way.

or a quatrain and a tercet (a-b-a-b, b-c-c).
eg
Sir John Davies’ Orchestra

Where lives the man that never yet did hear
 Of chaste Penelope, Ulysses’ Queen?
 Who kept her faith unspotted twenty year
 Till he returned that far away had been,
 And many men, and many towns had seen:
 Ten year at siege of Troy he lingering lay,
 And ten year in the Midland-sea did stray.

 This allows for a good deal of variety, especially when the form is used for longer narrative poems.Along with the couplet, it was the standard narrative meter in the late Middle Ages.

 ..

 

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment

Simply haven't been up for the discipline, and not surprisingly others found it difficult too.
I have entered my poem 'Corporate Villanelle' http://www.neopoet.com/node/corporate-villanelle from a year ago to the workshop, just as my attempt at that form. There are some other forms you have dealt with that really interest me and I will surely try them when I can. I know how valuable it is working strict verse forms to our 'art and sullen craft', having tried most of them in prehistoric times.

This has been a terrific workshop and I want to thank you for your wonderful efforts. Perhaps you could revive it with a promotional blog or two? Or think about another workshop on similar lines? I am certain everyone who participated learned a great deal.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

i don't think any promotional blog would revive this - it seems to have been dead for too long lol
i have closed the shop.
love judy
xxx
.

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

author comment
(c) Neopoet.com. No copyright is claimed by Neopoet to original member content.