About workshops

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The right amount of imagery (let's begin)

Status: 
Program description/goal: 

Description: Imagery, what it is and when is too much. Will begin with a discussion on imagery (which will be ongoing throughout shop) Will then move on to a couple of exercises designed to help people start using more imagery without overdoing it. One will be a "fill in the blanks" exercise and the other will be writing a new poem in partnership with another. Each exercise will be open to discussion as the steps are completed by members.

Leader: scribbler
Moderator(s):

Objectives: To help people become more comfortable in using imagery in their poetry

Level of expertise: Open to all

Subject matter: Correct use of and learning how to use imagery

**NOTE: to view page two of comments, click this link: http://www.neopoet.com/workshop/right-amount-imagery-lets-begin?page=2 ***

Length: 
35 days
Number of participants (limit): 
20 people
Skill level: 
Date: 
Wednesday, February 26, 2014 to Monday, March 31, 2014
Short description: 
A participant driven shop in which various uses of imagery will be explored

Comments

Hi Stan.

This is to formally re-confirm my interest to participate in this workshop.

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

Thanks for listing me in Stan

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
www.instgram.com/rularules1

I will be to my advantage having you both in..........stan

author comment

Forward to this...can definitely use help developing imagery in my writing.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

on the ocean of knowledge available in the rosy aroma of scintillating, softly sussurating sighs arising in this workshop.

Oh yes, imagery can be over done [grins]

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Yes it can. Hopefully this will help us all to avoid overdoing while at the same time using enough to draw readers in..........stan

author comment

getting on this thread.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

This is me acknowledging lol..........stan

author comment

I can use imagery to paint a picture. It is visualized, but I cannot seem to use it as a "decoration" for lack of a better term. I cannot elaborate on my picture. It is cold and real, but dull.
If you don't help me... I will find where you live and... was that imagery?

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

So what you're saying is that you have problems using imagery in order to connect with the reader? One thing to remember is that the reader considers himself to be the "I" within the poem. So it's a combination of imagery (to set the scene) and using first person which helps to establish a willing suspension of disbelief in a poem .This suspension is the open door which allows the reader to enter the poem. I better shut up. The shop hasn't even started and here I am allowing you to lure me into beginning discussion..............stan

author comment

Happens to me all the time. Excitement is a bummer.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

Only in that it's unfair to those with patience lol. Kinda like that somebody is so eager though...........stan

author comment

officially started? I have been off the radar this weekend, popping on and off as time allowed. I might be a little scarce this week as I have a mid term to study for and two papers to write but I will do my best to check in and keep up with everything :)

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Be officially begin Wednesday. Best of luck on mid terms

author comment

One exam this week, two papers due next, off for a week, than a huge paper which will be the mid term for Group Dynamics. I will check back in Wednesday.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

in the exam.

Alid

Am I too late to join

Jayne-Chloe

("Always and Forever") - (Never lose a holy curiosity.-Albert Einstein)

you're in

author comment

Beats me, glad Stan is in charge. Ask him.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

trying to get me started early? Hopefully my opening comment will help define imagery.........stan

author comment

Reconfirming my interest to participate in this workshop with a big smile :o))

 Alid

Life is wonderful!

Thank you. I'd already put you on the list . We will begin tomorrow.........stan

author comment

forgot to add me in there Mr. Stan

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

typed your name in and I apparently hit wrong key or didn't hit right key hard enough......Will enter you now.......stan

author comment

Haven't seen you in a while. Very good.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

Hello have had a lot going on

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

It's Wednesday for a lot of ya'll and getting within a couple of hours of being Wednesday here. So let's go ahead and get started.
I guess a good start is to define imagery according to Webster. But I'm only going to post the part of the definition that I think best applies to poetry : mental images especially the products of imagination.........pretty stale ain't it? lol.
So let me define what imagery in poetry means to me. Imagery is the stage on which a poem takes place. It is a means by which we can put a reader within a poem. Too little imagery is like watching a play about adding numbers on a stage with naught but the players there. Too much is like watching a play with a full orchestra for background music, a fully animated background set and costumed actors all talking at once.....while a fireworks display is going on. You might feel entertained but won't be able to tell what's going on.
I'm not going to attempt to dominate the discussion so I'll stop now and let you all put forth your ideas. I'll drop in to answer what questions I can and to help keep the conversation going..........stan

author comment

Just how much is too much and how little is too little? how many descriptive word will you recommend in a single line? where should we draw the line?

Alid

the question isn't it? The short non-helpful answer is that it depends lol. As an example, say you're writing an entire poem about a specific type of bird. In this instance you would likely describe the bird in detail:colors, song, size, ect. But if the bird is just mentioned in a poem about ,say, a journey through a forest then likely just saying what type bird it is and maybe the manner in which it flies or where its flying to is enough. If a blue jay I don't think in any instance that you'd want to write something like : The diving white and blue bluejay with dashes of black squawked in a raucous voice as it fluttered to the ground. But hopefully this discussion and the exercises which will come later will help us all better tread the line between enough not enough and too much..........stan

author comment

good reply.

Alid

Thank you for the quick start on the workshop considering all time zones and providing your take on right amount of imagery in a poem. In doing so you have provided a good insight into "just enough" and "too much" imagery which I will definitely attempt when the time comes to post my submission to this work shop, as I would too, take into account insights which would be provided in due course of time.

Since you have invited ideas from other participants, i have a couple to offer

1. Right amount of imagery could be like watching a semi nude lady performing a belly dance and slowly let your mind and imagination capture the essence of her movements as against a disco when the dance gets lost in blaring music and cascading lights which is more like a frenzy than revelation of the beauty to admire

2. It should progressively lead to the larger picture / image like say a bud blooming into a flower

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

The hardest part of trying to decide what's too much and what's not enough is that one reader is likely to have vastly different tastes than the next. And the minimalists might even consider any imagery too much. But hopefully by the time we get done here we will all be able to recognize that right amount when we see or write it...........stan

author comment

(that's kind of my job description)
It is entirely possible to write good poetry entirely without imagery, based purely on ideas.
They do, however, have to be very good, powerful ideas.

Whilst there is no set rule for how much imagery to use per verse or stanza it is probably a good idea not to mix different imagic themes too much, like my earlier post in this thread
"The sun shone brightly on the ocean of knowledge available in the rosy aroma of scintillating, softly sussurating sighs arising in this workshop."

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

There's imagery and then there's imagery. Very few poems on any subject work well without Some descriptive words. There aren't many Eskers around lol..........stan

author comment

Esker uses heaps of potent imagery.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I love the overbearing alliteration.
I may be in real trouble in this shop. I want so much imagery in my poetry I will stop at nothing.
One of the suggestions I have is this.
When I teach horse back riding I am always asking the rider to give me too much. Heels low? No, too low please. Head up? No, please get your head too high.
It is always easier to back off than go forward.
If you put too much imagery in your poetry it is easier for us too say- TOO MUCH than to say not enough.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

Is alliteration a form of imagery?

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

It is a technique of phonaesthetics. It is rhyme and not imagery. Sound as opposed to idea.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

I agree.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Hi There

No I wouldn't think alliteration is imagery

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

rhymes generally create imagery especially vowel sounds, each rhymed word becomes a symbol and transforms to a greater image of the meaning intended

Is a tool that when used well draws the reader into the poem, I use it to set the scene and maybe shed some light on what the writers seeing(me). But I agree with Jess you don't have to use imagery in poetry I think if I went through my poetry I would find one or two that would totally lack imagery

Using imagery isn't just about what you can see in your mind if its used properly it can induce the other senses like smell and taste, I read a poem about chocolate once and I could taste it as I read the poem, it was that good, there is a poem of Neruda's I cant remember its name but the way he described the sea brought back memories of the beach in my youth I could feel the splash and I could smell the sea

ok just my first thoughts I leave the floor open, Mr. Speaker lol

Jayne-Chloe

("Always and Forever") - (Never lose a holy curiosity.-Albert Einstein)

Very good expansion on how imagery can affect the reader........stan

author comment

I believe all the senses are involved in imagery

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

That's completely right

Jayne-Chloe

("Always and Forever") - (Never lose a holy curiosity.-Albert Einstein)

In my humble opinion imagery is when a reader can form a mental picture of the printed words
Using your five senses is this best way to form images
take for example
the sentence
"I walked into the kitchen and saw a stove"

now that is pretty boring
But what if I said
" I walked into the kitchen and saw the stove ladened with grease" a little better yes

Or I stepped into the kitchen and the old pot bellied stove cast shadows upon the wall"

Or The kitchen held the odor of fried fish
we all know what a greasing stove looks like and we all have experienced the fact that fried fish is one of the most difficult odors to get ride of
see we used sight and smell
to produce an image in our minds eye
I could go on but this is a big workshop so I will let someone else have the floor

The question was posed as to how much is to much or to little
how many of us have been reading a book and the author describes every thread of a garment I know it annoys me as I want to read the story line and really do not care what they were wearing
why not just say he wore a gray armani suit , that fit him to a tee. and be done with it

however if to many details are left out then you are left with questions.
take an eye witness description
tall , dark hair , fat
that does not tell enough but what if I said
tall well over six feet, pitch black hair, and a scar that ran from cheek to chin
I said I would stop but this is exactly what I used to teach sorry for the diatribe

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

As soon as I entered the white-walled kitchen in the light of early evening the acrid smell of burning fried fish assaulted my large and sensitive nose while the flames from the fire danced a rumba in crackling chords and cast udulating random shadows above the 4 year old stainless steel electric stove...........reckon that might be a bit too much detail? lol

author comment

yup I would say so but that is just me

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

I am learning so much already.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

I was just yanking your chain, lol I wouldn't be me if I wasn't being a pain in the ass now would I

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

away. Nothing wrong with a bit of fun while we learn from one another........stan

author comment

if i say imagery is what stimulates the heart and the brain of the readers?

Alid

You'd not be wrong but that's just a partial description don't you think? (well, maybe not as All senses stimulate the brain. )..............stan

author comment

Ideas can do that.
Imagery invokes the senses to enhance meaning.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I don't know if I should be responding but I would think Yes especially the brain as that is what is used the most when reading I used to listen to tories n the radio and boy that was a joy since I had to use my imagination to picture what the storyteller was describing

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

I so relate.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I'll be gone now for at least a half day. But don't let that slow down the exchanges of ideas...........stan

author comment

imagery is part of ideas as it inputs the description of the stuffs in the poem itself..

Alid

it is not ideas themselves.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I might be only half-right as not all ideas could invoke the senses as jess has suggested...

Alid

to write poetry without imagery. It is sensual and emotional by nature.
Whilst not part of this workshop you might set yourself the exercise of trying to write a poem based entirely on ideas without imagery.

I can not stress enough that the word 'imagery' implies a visual thing but in a poetic context it involves all the senses.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

If you think you are only half right then does that mean the other half is left
sorry couldn't let that go

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

flog her.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

learn something new.thanks, Jess

Alid

Coordinate the workshops and most importantly, be a pain in the arse [grins]. Really, it is a serious job, we need to be ever vigilant to not become self-congratulatory and to maintain a high critical standard to best improve our poetry.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

might I add that after further thought
imagery is triggered by key words and comparisons
for example
the air was as sweet as new mowed hay

or her screams shattered the night like broken glass

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

you are in fine form.
Much of the power of imagery lies in association.
Therein lies a problem though."new mowed hay" might provoke a sweet nostalgia for some, or the agony of exploited hard work for others.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Thank you so much for the compliment my friend
I thrive on this stuff right here

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

(an old friend of mine… yes, that was name dropping) singing her song “Part of Your World” from “The Little Mermaid”.
One of the lines had Ariel asking the question… “what’s a fire and why does it… what’s the word?... burn?”
It made me cry.
Not because of the imagery generated by the word “burn”, but rather due to her ignorance. The MERMAID wanted to know what was this thing so common to me. Physical, emotional and intellectual burn was unknown to her and it forced me to feel all of it at once.
Reverse Imagery?

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

There are other types of imagery than just visual. There's the senses of smell, touch, hearing which can also be used. i.e. The water melon scent of newly cut grass. The groan of gravel beneath tires, A random chorus of spring peepers.The caress of wheat heads as I walk through a field. So don't let yourself become wed to only one type.

author comment

you have just reminded me of that old parable of the three blind men and the elephant

each one described the elephant differently based on the sense of feel(touch) which is all perception as Jess stated above one thing (word, phrase etc) may mean different things or trigger different emotions or images

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

The statement is: The bozos in the American Congress are buffoons.
Which has more impact, the statement given by
A. Rush Limbaugh, loud mouthed radio commentator or
B. Barack Obama, President of the United States.
The speaker has as much influence on the image as the image itself.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

that perspective assumes that the reader knows the writer doesn't it?

author comment

The character must be elaborated on either in the poem itself as in the case of the mermaid or being previously known. Yet, still the speaker has an influence on the image. Such as your "character" in many of your poems. The old man reminiscing.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

the simultaneous image of fire is burn , so using a fire as imagery to express burning without using the word "burn"deepens the sense

Butting in to provide one more explanation about "right" amount of imagery.

It could be like often written in recipes "Add salt to taste" :)

raj (sublime_ocean)

I created this sample piece below just to know if it is too little or too less

The silence was thicker than misty eyes.
with death staring back from the corpse,
heads drooping, hands clasped,
was it in remorse or fear
only the tear would know

It was a numbers game,
to some it was one less
to some, who next?
many made up for numbers
to say God Bless,
the poker faced were hiding a smile
while for the undertaker
it's a busy day
with one more coffin sold
as he hit the final nail
with a jarring note
before dusting his hands
for a job well done.

raj (sublime_ocean)

This is vivid raj. Especially the first stanza. It really shows me much!

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
www.instgram.com/rularules1

thanks for the comment nut I also wish to know if it is too little or too much :)

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

the right ingredients and the right amounts, which makes it vivid without being boring.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
www.instgram.com/rularules1

Thanks for sharing your opinion. Much appreciated as we explore the realms of too little and too much

regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

Spot on..

Alid

i love it! now back to our discussion, i personally think that you are the least person to worry about overdoing imagery. if i am not mistaken, it gets too much when there are just too many descriptions on a certain subject in a single line. yours are evenly distributed. At least, that's what I think..

Alid

Thanks for sharing your opinion. So far you and Rula have given me a sort of thumbs up, let's also learn hat others have to say.

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

Getting a bit ahead of the shop lol. Save this poem for the latter part in which we will All be submitting a poem. But just one thing on your poem: silence can be thick but I'm not too sure misty eyes are. A better comparison is likely in order................stan

author comment

thanks for your r opinion which is appreciated. Let me clarify though that it was not my intent to be ahead on the shop, rather it was to give an example / sample to get real time clarifications, like you could do while commenting about thickness of misty eyes. I hope you appreciate my intent which was not to be smart lol.

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

didn't mean to come across as calling you a smart aleck lol. But for now let's limit ourselves to single lines or at most a single stanza in giving examples. Easier for you and easier for others. A verse or stanza should suffice at this point...........stan

author comment

My comment about "smart" was in humor so please don't take it seriously :) As for restricting to one line or one stanza for examples / samples your point is well taken. We have just started with the shop and already the hits have crossed 80. You certainly have a lot to chew on already lol..

raj (sublime_ocean)

http://vocaroo.com/i/s01vGBwbyVHB

I think this is a good mix of idea and imagery.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Thanks Jess for your comment and also for reading it aloud and posting the link here.

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

I for one like this piece. It had just enough imagery for me
besides that one doesn't want to give all away , leave room for the imagination to work and your poem did just that

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

It is good to see you back and actively participating in this workshop. I have and will always look forward to your comments and critique as with this one too. Thank you.

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

too much has been said and all is a great stuff!
Imagery for me is to show the reader rather than to tell him what is intended.
How about that?

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
www.instgram.com/rularules1

Pretty good take on the subject Rula

raj (sublime_ocean)

yes, and there are so so many ways to show something...........stan

author comment

yes ,as long as you do not show the reader to much lol
this is a good description

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

showing and telling differ, when telling if not all is revealed but when showing you only signify leaving the mind of the person more active

but direct answer from Rula. Very much appreciated..

Alid

I feel that I sometimes mix the metaphore and the simile with imagery. Does anyone here think as I do, that these are strongly related.
I am really confused.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
www.instgram.com/rularules1

You are not the only one Rula, add me to that list :). We will soon find out when big players take the field and dish out their thoughts. For now, the master \chef (Stan) already has a lot served on his plate. Let's wait and hear him out when he returns to the table :)

raj (sublime_ocean)

are Both useful in conveying imagery

author comment

So far we have concluded that imagery can:
induce a state of mind in the reader
place the reader beside the poet and thus personalizing the poem
add that elusive "poetic touch" to a poem

And it can do this by engaging all the senses as well as the mind

That not just direct descriptions but also simile and metaphor can be used.

We have also determined that there IS such thing as too much and too little imagery

Also that what might be too much or too little varies from reader to reader and even from poem to poem (with subject likely determining what is too little or too much in a given poem)

In this particular shop this discussion will be ongoing as we all find things to add. For those who feel "talked out" right now let's do a small exercise. I'l like everybody to write at least 3 and up to 4 lines of poetry which has No imagery then post it here...........stan PS you will find this is harder than it sounds

author comment

During my walk I saw a bird
it was perched upon a tree
and promptly it let flee a turd
which I think was aimed at me

author comment

Did i read you right? you said posting 3 to 4 lines sans imagery, which i agree is harder than it sounds. But your example did create an imagery for me and i could see the bird perched upon the tree and you looking up and imagining that the turd was aimed at you and could see you move out of the way too. That's imagery, isn't it?

raj (sublime_ocean)

hmmm wouldn't you say using "I saw" triggers the mind to see as well
and the rest would follow suit you would visualize a tree etc
but it is amusing lol

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

If one uses that argument there may not be a way to write without imagery because almost any word carries associations with it doesn't it? I guess the "I saw" could be replaced with seeing but even that doesn't negate that a bird was observed does it? Told you it was hard to do lol. Even just omitting adverbs and adjectives is difficult. But I hope my example was at least bland............stan

author comment

but there is some really disgusting imagery there and I hope you ducked.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
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I am away from base at the moment but if it is OK:-
The images you give here Stan are great if you have trees and birds, or even know what they are, Inuit's may not know what you are talking about.
This means that Imagery has to be carefully written so that it portrays an image to the senses and the experiences of the reader.
Our problem is that we expect everyone else to have the experiences that we can imagine.
Here is the take care point, I wrote one piece where I was walking on the wing of a butterfly, being so small etcetera to be able to see and feel the place it only worked on a few.
The lead in to any imaginary scene has to also contain imagery, in the butterfly wing thing, I should have been shrunk first, as with the bee on the Sunflower head seeing Van Gogh die or hearing it.
I will sort out more when I return home, Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

but perhaps somebody who has always lived on the ocean shore would be pleased at hearing what is on the high mountains or interior prairies. Or a bayou dweller could enjoy hearing about the shifting desert sands.........A cheap ticket to immerse themselves in a different environment is reading poetry about regions which are unfamiliar.........stan

author comment

examples 'cos I really don't have a clue how to do it.

Alid

How many of you have read John Lennon's poetry?
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1EaYzWszP4R

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Wonderful example of imagery, and smoothly read by you.
Thanks for introducing Lennon too.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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my eyes are getting tired.didn't realize it 's already 4am here. i'll wait abit before i leave...

Alid

Any discussion taking place over as many time zones as this will naturally require that Everybody will be gone for certain intervals. So get some sleep and catch up as time allows..............stan

author comment

(as Stan wants us to write for the shop without any imagery)

A blank slate
no chalk, no talk
gone are the
chalk-a-talk days

raj (sublime_ocean)

I just saw a classroom black board lol

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

Ooops. You left me scratching my head to find out how to write a blank 4 line piece. But this is a workshop and you have inspired me to keep trying and hash out an image less piece ...lol

raj (sublime_ocean)

I hope no offense was taken as I have a Very vivid imagination
and this little task is going to be super difficult for me but
our fearless leader Stan knows what of he speaks

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

No, I didn't feel offended at all. My apologies if something i said made you think that. I always appreciate your comments, suggestions and critique because I know they are always with a good intention.

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

A very clear image of chalkboard and chalk writing, maybe even a lonely message written on the board about how much it hates Ipads. Imagery 2 (Stan's), Poets 0.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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that was really vivid.
Try again :)

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A BLANK slate
CHALK-A-TALK days..............lol told you it's a hard thing to do

author comment

no sound heard
no sight seen
no scent captured
there is nothing

Alid

IMHO
this does not provoke any image for me
I think this is what Stan wanted I'm going to think about mine for a bit but wanted to give my take on your lines

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

there where you're Khalid.
Unlike Chrys, I had a strange feeling. Can't tell what is it exactly, but there was something.

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its late here. can't hold on anymore.gotta go.catchup tomorrow

Alid

I meant to say that there was some kind of imagery in your lines.
At least i could perceive some dull darkness there.
Why don't you just give it another shot? :)

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i don't know
what to say
when words
are useless

I thought this's imageless. :)

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I feel despair. This is a joke. Stan gave us an exercise that cannot be done.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
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this is a good example of how different people perceive different words. I saw nothing you felt something and I am sure others will have a different take

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

dear Chrys.

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think this is excellent in its lack of imagery (unless visualizing a void counts)

author comment

But it has more to do with feeling rather than vesualizing .
The question is, is feeling things part of imagery?
I'd say yes.
what do others think?

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Indeed one of the best uses of imagery is to invoke feelings

author comment

the poem should be strictly followed with knowing the mind of the poet is supreme as he is the voice, what you feel depends on you but what the poet feels is the basic of the poem so feelings of the reader doesn't create imagery

the intention or mind of the poet does not have to be known. What the reader feels and imagines when reading the work is what the point of the workshop is or at any other time. Images come to a reader they do not have to be the same that was intended that is hat makes the poem as diverse as the reader If we all saw the same image as was intended then where would we be all thinking and feeling the same we may as well not bother thinking. So i short the original point of the poem as written does not have to be known Only the person that wrote it knows what they were thinking at the time
Mind that this is only my opinion and may not be shared by others but there in lies the beauty of it all yes

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

is dictated by the reader? then whats the basis of theme, is it not to express the mind of the writer?if the mind of the poet is known it gives you by what to critique it by, do you think so?

but so far you are the one. Imagery 2, Poets 1.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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Here's my share

I wouldn't say that I can
nor I'd say I can't.
Every word has its weight,
what I say I should grant.

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Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
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You made Stan's assignment look so easy.

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

Imagery 2, Poets 2.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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more of less
less of more
same words
different strokes

i hope no one finds any images in this one :)

raj (sublime_ocean)

Ah Ha no images at all lol

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

Thanks, I could see the image though of your pat on my back . I hope Stan approves too lol.

raj (sublime_ocean)

should stop worrying about whether I approve or not. We're all pretty much equal as writers and this shop has a lot more to do with getting people to think about their use of imagery while they're writing than it does with any right or wrong............stan

author comment

we're winning.
Imagery 2, Poets 3.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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Words

Words without description
odorless ,colorless without meaning
no more than letters strung together
a grocery list would do much better

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

saw a grocery list. Imagery 3, Poets 3. Of course this is only my opinion.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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I knew this would not be as easy as it sounds will re write that line but not tonight I'm seeing things through one eye right now

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

you could see imagery in my lines?
If yes, What kind of imagery is there?

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All three of the 1st 3 lines contain descriptions which is kinda what imagery does.............stan

author comment

the elegance of numbers
induces many slumbers
though who could possibly resist
a Fibonacci list?

You are right Stan, it is almost impossible to avoid imagery, though the image of a number scarcely counts (pun intended) does it? And I guess 'slumbers' could evoke an image of someone dozing.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Sorry, Imagery 4, Poets 3.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
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It might well be that any poem which contains adjectives or adverbs, almost by definition, also has imagery........stan

author comment

adjectives and adverbs are the most perfect images in English language when substituted with the words they are to modify, this is more linguistic

Eternity, where does it lie?
No where my vision can espy.
Eternity is not a place.
For All and Aye, it is a race.

I think I succeed (I will let someone else score me) because I used abstract language (things like eternity or truth) instead of concrete language (as turds or chalkboards).
Poets use concrete language more than abstract for just this reason: because it invokes an image more readily than something like "world peace". We can envision something like that, but it is incredibly ethereal and relative.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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by comparing one thing to another you evoke an image don't you?
I think this small exercise might be judged a success. For it shows that even the idea of no imagery is hard to grasp and also reinforces that there IS a difference between No imagery and too little imagery. We'll all give folks another day or so to come up with an imageless stanza while we keep on discussing :
1. can anything of much length Be written totally without imagery and still be called poetry
2. some of less obvious types of imagery, such as inferred imagery. I'll be back in the morning at latest (approx. 12 hours from now).............stan

author comment

last line
I can think of things much better

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

1- No I do not believe you can write anything of length without invoking some type of imagery. As the exercise has shown even the most simple lines contain some form of imagery. I believe our minds automatically imagine even the slightest of images when we read, they seem to be set that way

2-inferred imagery , but isn't all imagery inferred?

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

I had a go at writing a few lines without imagery but I don't quite think I pulled it off here it is

with the question
of creation
comes the beginning
of fascination

That's my shot at it

Jayne-Chloe

("Always and Forever") - (Never lose a holy curiosity.-Albert Einstein)

close but no cigar lol. Beginning forms the image of a starting line. Don't feel bad though as this little exercise has made it obvious that it's nearly impossible to write even 4 lines without invoking,even by accident, an image in somebody's mind

author comment

write without using imagery. My writing seems to thrive on it.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

nope I did not form any images with this

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

I tried to say something without showing anything...its so not easy

Thanks hun Jayne x

("Always and Forever") - (Never lose a holy curiosity.-Albert Einstein)

You did as well as anyone. Better than mine.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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I am almost shocked at the effort everyone has put forth. This shop is almost running itself. As a reward instead of the fill in the blanks part being next, lets each intentionally write 3-4 lines which are so overfilled with imagery that they read like a run on sentence. Please choose from one of the following topics:
I am sad
seeing the first flower of spring
seeing the first leaf change of autumn
hearing a train whistle in the distance
tripping on a vine
I am So mad
a streetlight at night
waves at the beach
.............don't worry if somebody else has already used the topic you liked best. Different versions of same topic
are welcome....................stan ...........here's mine:
On such a dreary cold late winter afternoon
when all seems asleep,dormant or at least dead
and the entire world is pleading,begging that extremely soon
I spy the very first emerging yellow daffodil's cheerful golden head

author comment

I can see you have got plenty up your sleeve to keep us engrossed and engaged :) The choice of topics listed by you is pretty tempting, hard to choose one over the other, so I might try a hand at more than one...lol..

i guess what could be next up your sleeve is to put all belonging to one topic together for others to see different perspectives on the same topic...was i good at guessing that? lol..

raj (sublime_ocean)

with something up my sleeve? He asks with a look of pure innocence? Well, maybe a little something to keep everybody thinking lol

author comment

a little behind. Between studying for my mid-term tonight and having the flu, I am not able to read through the 98 comments that were on my screen this morning right away, I will read them all though I promise. Could someone please catch me up as to where we are in the workshop?

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

We're still in the discussion phase although there has been one small exercise. This consisted of trying to write 3-4 lines of poetry with No imagery. The exercise which is now underway is to write 3-4 lines of poetry with way too much imagery. ..........stan

author comment

Don't look at me when I'm...
Ah! I did and saw...
but I wish I had not seen

I challenge everyone to find images in these 3 lines, if you imagine something it's your own imagery not mine lol

raj (sublime_ocean)

the 2nd line did suggest you see something.isn't the action of looking considered imagery? if i am to put myself in the writer's position, its like i saw something and regret it. closing my eyes and shaking my head. That's what I think.

Alid

I don't think so because if you could see what i saw you would have been able to describe it. Am I right?

raj (sublime_ocean)

but the last line, doesn't it signify regret?

Alid

well, you are being assumptive about it being a "regret"

raj (sublime_ocean)

but for some reason i myself don't understand i still got this image of looking,then somewhat a face seems embarrass,hmmm.. very assumptive, i know. but i can't help it. LOL. lets see what others have to say..

Alid

stan wants us to write 3-4 lines of our own poem, overflowing with imagery..on the topics he has chosen

here's mine on rage

my heart screams with burning rage,scorching any hopes for a whisper of forgiveness
turning them into filthy, black ashes, banished by the flow of the careless wind
peace and harmony lay trampled on the floor, cracking into a thousand pieces
as my wraith grew bolder and stronger, masking my face red like the devil's kin

standing alone
being bored
nothing to do
nothing to see

*this to me has no imagery whatsoever.*

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Sorry, I could see a bored face, so I don't think it would qualify as image less ...lol

raj (sublime_ocean)

the mere use of words like vision, see, smell...etc evoke the senses.
At least what I feel.
Try not to use any to produce a less imaged verse.

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Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
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see how you cant use imagery...even if you write a something like

the wall

we still see a wall...do you know what I mean? It is an incomplete thought but we still see it. We visualize everything when we read. Just my thought.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

You might be right but I'll give it one last try :
actions may
negate thought
but one might say
not by a lot

author comment

When the purple fluffy rounded head
first pansey smiles into my walkways,
my little heart swings out, sings and sways
where every word falls false and fake.

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A good overloaded piece of imagery in this one. Well done in terms of the present exercise. Though, suggestion are not part of this exercise at this stage, I feel you could tweak up the fourth line for a finesses to this four liner.

raj (sublime_ocean)

I am not sure if I got it right. I've tweaked a little.
Does it meet your suggestion now?
If not, can you elaborate please?

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I will come back tomorrow night and may be I would have some suggestion to offer. I will sleep over it for now.

raj (sublime_ocean)

I have tried...

When the purple fluffy's maiden heads
burst in smiles on my walkways,
my little heart swings, sways and sings
a song, in speechless wilderness

raj (sublime_ocean)

"almost" the same meaning, but more elegantly presented.
Thank you. Much appreiated raj

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My pleasure always if in a small way I can suggest and the suggestions are found ok. It is not easy always to make a suggestion unless one is on the same page with the writer in terms of the way it is perceived by both. At times it can go hay wire but good to know it worked well for you.

raj (sublime_ocean)

you have completely succeeded in making this sound like something you would read in a greeting card sappy, sweet and dripping with yuck way to flowery lol
good job sorry Raj I see this was Rula's work

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

dear Chrys. This is the worst I've ever written. Flowery it is indeed. But you go and blame stan for it. It is sure not mine.

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you are right, Rula deserves your comment because i made just a wee bit of suggestion and no more :)

raj (sublime_ocean)

The original of this piece is very simple and straight forward little piece.
I have modifed and tweaked a little to meet the ex. Stan asked us to write.
Here is the original version for you

When the flowers smile,
my heart swings
and sways
then all the words
go silent.

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Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
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Ah Rula that's the right amount of imagery made me smile and my heart sing and sway. I know in your example before, how you have burdened the same poem with too much imagery and by presenting both versions demonstrated the "just right" and the "too much"

raj (sublime_ocean)

A good example of how too much imagery can make a poem flowery.........sorry, I couldn't help myself

author comment

sorry I thought this was a piece Raj wrote but drip, drip, sappy sappy very pretty but you went into overload with the imagery and I guess that is what Stan was looking for

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

this recent exercise is driving me nuts with vision. help! my head is overloaded with images . too much info. lol

Alid

First Bloom
The joyous,overwhelming elation felt
at the brilliant.colorful,vibrant sight
pushing,struggling,peeking
through the long arduous winter worn ground

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

Sounds almost like something I'd write so it Must have too much imagery lol..........stan

author comment

LOL no Stan you add just the right amount we will see what others might think

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

I have to disagree I think your verse is borderline with a tiny trim it would be the makings of lovely verse but I always love what you write ... I have to say not too much it needs more for me to say ahhhh enough

Jayne x

("Always and Forever") - (Never lose a holy curiosity.-Albert Einstein)

if you think so ,I thought I went over the top but will see how I can make you say enough lol

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

lol okies overload me

Jayne :)

("Always and Forever") - (Never lose a holy curiosity.-Albert Einstein)

Except for line three, I think you did really well in your overloading ex.
I also can't see how winter's ground is arduous. But it must be me.

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It is the winter thaat is arduous not the ground

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

the Master of Imagery "Stan: has already give you a soft pat on your back, so I need not comment more, except might be tempted to give it a try to tweak it up if i can, which would also be a good home work exercise for me efore the real exam (workshop)...lol..

raj (sublime_ocean)

Tweak away

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

How about these mini changes?

The joyous,overwhelming elation felt
at the brilliant.colorful,vibrant sight
[probing],[sneaking],peeking through
the [trying] winter [thawed] ground

raj (sublime_ocean)

why the brackets

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

The brackets were to help you identify the small changes I had made.

raj (sublime_ocean)

The joyous,overwhelming,over the top elation felt
at the brilliant,vibrant ,colorful exciting sight
pushing,fighting, struggling to
peek through the rain ,ice,snow tortured hard ground

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

That just about does it Chrys

Jayne x

("Always and Forever") - (Never lose a holy curiosity.-Albert Einstein)

working on this exercise feel free to offer suggestion to others. And when this phase gets to be too much, maybe we can consider how visual imagery can be used to affect mood in a poem..........just something to fill in spare time with (he says with demonic grin)........stan

author comment

with that demonic grin you just confirmed that my guess was spot on about you keeping something up your sleeve ..lol

raj (sublime_ocean)

Can we do this (putting much imagery) and still keep it elegant- at least to some degree?

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These two exercises were/are designed to show that we mostly already know what too much or too little imagery is when we see it. In answer to Rula's question about whether too much imagery can still be elegant. One definition of elegant is being of restrained body or style. So being overloaded kind of negates elegance. But if done right a poem Can have a Lot of imagery and still not be perceived as having too much just as a poem can also have scant imagery and still evoke a lot.............stan

author comment

I am going to go with a streetlamp at night :) I only just seen the exercise so I wont be around till later with my homework... lol

loving the exchanges in the workshop :)

Jayne x

("Always and Forever") - (Never lose a holy curiosity.-Albert Einstein)

The dark, orange and bright moon
glistened against the shiny, crystal like ice
fluffy, black, threatening clouds rolled in
as silver snowflakes danced and skipped
along the frozen surface

*this sucked but a good attempt*

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

This is bad enough that for purposes of this exercise it is well done lol

author comment

I know. It was painful to write as Wesley has so meticulously worked on my grammar, punctuation etc etc...glad it served the purpose of the exercise. I am slowly returning to the land of the living so hoping to be more involved.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Just played a bit with your write, for the sake of my workshop practice :)

The deep orange and bright moon
glistened upon the crystalline ice
soon black, fluffy, dancing clouds
spun out a silvery snow laced gown

raj (sublime_ocean)

I like how that sounds much better than my own version. I think the flu has clouded my mind somewhat. Hopefully with it being the weekend, I can recouperate some and do a better job.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Good to know you liked the changes. Yes, flu can affect our capabilities. What is good to know that in spite of it you attempted it. Take care and get well soon.

raj (sublime_ocean)

go do what you need to do, girl. don't worry. if you missed out on the discussion here, all you need to do is ask and someone will fill you in.

Alid

wonderful imagery through the words, dark, orange, and bright

a razor-sharp blight of bright
split the spectra of the moon,
while the streetlamps dull
caressed the light shade

eh ? not sure if I have overdone it enough

Jayne

("Always and Forever") - (Never lose a holy curiosity.-Albert Einstein)

Compared to your usual writing style this Is overdone but I have faith you can do even ......Hmmmm when attempting to do something bad on purpose , is it correct to say that doing more badly is doing better? lol

author comment

He he he I will see what I cant do with it, hmmm overloaded it will be lol

Jayne x

("Always and Forever") - (Never lose a holy curiosity.-Albert Einstein)

I did a practice round for the workshop by fidgeting with your poem lol

a laser-sharp beam of light
split the lunar spectra bright,
while the streetlamps diffused
caressed by the luminous hues

raj (sublime_ocean)

now lets see if anyone else could top that.

Alid

I am going back to the drawing board with this one it just wasn't enough,

Jayne

("Always and Forever") - (Never lose a holy curiosity.-Albert Einstein)

maybe another shot at this? you're right. i don't think its overdone enough. but don't take my word only. see what the others have to say....

Alid

I will have another go at it later today its nearly 5 am my brains packing it in

Jayne

("Always and Forever") - (Never lose a holy curiosity.-Albert Einstein)

then you can have a go at it again...i'm sure you will do much better when you have rested.

Alid

I am Mad

Mad are the clouds in their riot of colors
banging and flashing in blinding light
Mad is the sea lashing at the shore
thrashing and bashing all in its fore
Mad go those mountains who go broke
bursting and billowing lava and smoke

I am in awe when I play with those clouds
I am at sea when I am lost in its wake
I am that mountain when I blow smoke rings
Yes, I am mad, when I play those roles

Oh Yeah! I am mad, to be a poet :)

raj (sublime_ocean)

exquisite poetry with imagery deaf, i loved it deft

The first major exercise will begin Monday so we have all weekend in which to play with these minor exercises. Anything which you might want to discuss in the way of imagery can also be done at this time. One such subject might be the difference between direct imagery and comparative imagery. Direct : I sat beneath an old oak tree. Indirect : The tall oak tree was old as me.

author comment

A small problem though with the examples you have given about direct & Indirect. How can a reader know how old the writer is by reading "oak tree was old as me"

raj (sublime_ocean)

That's part of being indirect. It leaves a bit of wiggle room for interpretation. In this example the use of the word "me" put the reader in the protagonist's shoes and allows the reader to relate to the poem in such a way that the oak is the same age as the reader. Whenever we use 'I", "me" or such it helps the reader enter into the poem as the protagonist. Doesn't Always work but usually does.............stan

author comment

thanks for the explanation....

raj (sublime_ocean)

this is getting interesting..

Alid

Everybody needs to be clear that nouns and verbs in and of themselves are not imagery . The way in which they can be used can often produce or reinforce imagery . Two of the main ways that memorable imagery can be produced is by way of metaphor and simile.
Metaphor : figurative language; a figure of speech in which a word or phrase which literally denotes one specific thing is used in place of another thing in order to suggest a similarity between the two....Example, "His resolve was a bastion."

Simile : figure of speech comparing two unlike things. Often uses the word "Like" or "As". Example, "There he stood like a stone wall."

We will be discussing these two things in more detail during the "fill in the blanks" part of the shop which will begin Monday.
During that phase of the shop, I will post 2 poems which have had almost all imagery removed and assign 2 participants to provide their own imagery for the poem. While they do this the discussion can continue on metaphors, similes and other stuff to do with imagery while we await the "new" versions of the poems to be posted. Please do Not post your version of rewritten poems until I assign a poem to you. ...................Now to dig up a couple of poems that I can strip the imagery from lol...........stan

author comment

I must say you are conducting this workshop very methodically. It would be interesting to see how the next step being worked out by you unfolds.

raj (sublime_ocean)

Agree more raj.
hope the next homework won't be difficult :)

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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a little mercy for this novice, pleeease. meow!

Alid

Hope that's not another word for BORING lol. I have a touch of a stomach bug right now but hope to get the 1st 2 poems ,sans imagery, posted today and assign the first two people to supply their own imagery for them......gotta go and I mean GO lol....................

author comment

Its1am and I am going to bed here, I went out for lunch today and ended up with food poisoning I am sick as a dog as well, I know what you mean about going lol, I will check out the assignment in the morning when I wake up hopefully feeling a little better right now I feel like I been rode hard and hung up wet

love Jayne x

("Always and Forever") - (Never lose a holy curiosity.-Albert Einstein)

Take best care of the stomach bug...plenty of fluids, fruit juice and good salt sugar (electrolyte) intake is advisable...and may be you can write a poem about it too :)

much love and hugs...

raj (sublime_ocean)

Last week, evil flu...just now feeling human.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Your "Methodical approach" in conducting the workshop was with due respect to the efforts you are saying and not at all boring. How can it be boring when the hits on this thread are well beyond 200? So I guess you may have said it jocularly.....Do take care of the stomach bug...have lots of fluids and salts...take care..

raj (sublime_ocean)

take care, everyone, I myself have caught the flu but it is getting better.. for those of you who are not sick, may you'll remain healthy throughout this workshop session. for those of you who are already ill, may you recover quickly..

Love
Alid

Raj is right. I won't describe this workshop as boring. In fact I find it very nourishing for the mind..

Love
Alid

Painting and poetry are very similar in many respects. With both, one starts out with a blank sheet. Then comes an idea or muse. The first sketch of a painting is line the title and opening line of a poem. They determine what the finished product will be. The outline of the painting is like the form chosen for the poem. In both art forms it is knowledge of the art which determines the "polish" of the outcome. The painter roughs in the picture he wants to share, the poet formulates what he wants to convey. The painter then fleshes out the details of his painting, the poet does this fleshing out just prior to putting pen to page. Then the painter adds the colors and shading to complete his work. The poet adds in the details to make his words more vivid in the readers' minds. These details and the way they are presented are imagery. The main difference between painting and poetry is that with a painting the artist supplies a total vision of what he wishes to convey. A poet's "finished" product is more open to interpretation by the beholder. And since truly great poetry is memorable, a poets work can far outlast the paper it is written on.
Now on to what is too little and too much imagery. One can write a perfectly good poem with either too much or too little imagery. Perfectly fine.......but not great. Frost didn't say "I came to a fork in the road" nor did he say "I came to a forked divergence in a patch of woods aflame with autumn colors".....He wrote :"Two roads diverged in a yellow wood." So as we do the following exercise what we are going to attempt is to provide enough imagery to allow the reader to envision the setting, feeling or whatever without telling so much that the reader is left with nothing to interpret himself

General discussion will continue of all the things we've discussed so far as well as the "rewritten "poems as they are posted on stream. Which leads to instructions for this exercise. I will post 2 poems at a time here on the workshop thread. They will all, except one, be by well known poets. And I will have removed most of the imagery from them. Along with each of the two poems I will assign one of ya'll to "rewrite" one of them by supplying your own imagery. When you get your version completed Post The Poem On Stream with"imagery shop" next to the title. I also would like the comments on the revised poems to be on stream also. By doing this there's a chance somebody not in the shop can also learn something.One it appears that each pair of poems has received about all the comment that it's going to get, I'll post the original versions on line. This will enable everybody to see how close you've come to matching the originals..PS if I assign you a poem you already know, please tell me and I'll give you the choice of either getting a later poem or I'll find another one,

OK poem #1
THOSE WINTER SUNDAYS by Robert Hayden

Sundays too my father got up..........
and put on his clothes in the.............
then with....... hands that ached
from labor..................................
he banked fires .No one thanked him

I'd wake and hear the cold............
When the rooms were warm, he'd call
and....... I would rise and dress
fearing the....... angers of that house,

Speaking.......... to him,
who had.....
and polished my......... shoes....
What did I know, what did I know?
of love's....................offices?
* ellipses denote where original imagery was placed

Raj, this is your poem to rewrite. Take your time

author comment

Once again a great job in comparing a painter and a poet. You have assigned me a poem to fill in the ellipsis with my words to create appropriate imagery. It is something I have never done before, but there is always a first time and I will apply my mind and give it a good shot.

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

Just remember that this shop is about not over or under using imagery and you'll do fine...........stan

author comment

Do the number of lines and line breaks in the assigned poem match the original poem?

raj (sublime_ocean)

I didn't want this to be Too hard...........stan

author comment

A LATE WALK by Robert Frost

When I go up through the.............field
the...........aftermath
...............like the thatch with the ........dew
........closes the .........path

And when I.........to the......ground
the whir of......birds
......from the tangle of.........weeds
is ........than.....words

A tree ....the wall stands........
but a leaf that........brown
Disturbed, I doubt not, by my thought
comes..................down

I ..........not far from my going......
by picking the..............
of the...............aster flower
to carry again to you

* ellipses denote omitted imagery China Blue, this one's for you

author comment

my least favorite poet( I know I'm going to get a lashing for that) lol I'll see what I can do without looking up the original give me a bit of time to think about this one I won't take long

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

By knowing this is a rhyming work at least you have a hint at how many feet are missing in each line. And remember the object is to supply the right amount of missing imagery, not the exact Same imagery........stan

author comment

Do NOT post any versions of these 2 poems until those assigned them have posted their versions and even the only do so if in the context of commentary on Their versions. Your turns are coming soon enough lol.........stan

author comment

let's hope that I won't be a disappointment when my turn comes..

Alid

In this shop it's hard to actually do something which is wWong. When it comes your time just do your best in walking the thin line between not enough and too much.............stan

author comment

How will we be notified what we have been assigned will you do that here or by pm

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

Look above and you will see that you have been assigned the Frost poem. Guess I need to also PM in the future lol........stan

author comment

Please confirm if the following Approach I shall be taking is appropriate while getting started with the assignment given to me by Stan

1. Wear my school uniform (imagine me to be) lol
2. Take into account the various nuances offered by Stan, such as:-
a. Look at the Opening line, Title of the assigned poem to fill in the words
b. Get into the father and son characters and imagine it's Sunday and Winter
c. Try to use Simile and Metaphors, where necessary to let the reader imagine
d. Try to create Direct and/or Indirect imagery
3. Knock my brains and imagine that I have Authored this poem
4. Check for punctuation and see if Stan has deliberately mislead on that aspect lol. Wesley will knock me if required when I post the first draft in war zone (Read Stream)
5. Check for cadence and flow

It would be better if Stan mentions how many words from the original poem he has replaced with ellipsis. Is that possible Stan? say YES :)

Let me know if I have left out some essentials in the list above

raj (sublime_ocean)

Got all correct except #1. Instead of school uniforms all should be wearing thongs lmao. Whew! I just visualized Me wearing a thing....talk about imagery.......If you'd like, I'll supply the missing words as well as the number missing.........did the sarcasm come through with that? lol. Remember we're Not trying to recreate the exact same poem . We're trying to avoid using the wrong amount of imagery. So the number of words used in a free verse doesn't really matter that much.

author comment

You look pretty ready :)

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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No, far from it. Still not able to start the engine :) and I see Chrys is already done with hers.

raj (sublime_ocean)

you make me laugh with the first line...All the best with your assignment.

Alid

Don't laugh, I am pretty stressed out not being able to get the engine started ...lol...pray for me :)

raj (sublime_ocean)

OK as per instructions I have posted assigned poem to stream. Although I know that outsiders will have a lot to say about it without following what the original instructions were.

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

Hats off to you. You amaze me when you say you already done with it. Lemme go an see in stream

raj (sublime_ocean)

had a little bit more to go on as a rhyming poem gives hints of how many beats per line are missing. Plus Frost is her "favorite" author (wink)...............stan

author comment

LOL I wsn't aware this was even a rhyming poem so I went my instinct do you want me to give it another shot or leave it as is

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

Probably best to leave as is. Whether the poem rhymes has little to do with the amount of imagery it has.............stan

author comment

I'll see if I can help you get started. In the first line : Sundays too my father got up................
This lacks telling the manner in which he got up. Could be Where he got up, could be When he got up, could be the mood in which he got up, or so forth. Remember that there is not so much a "correct" choice to be made as there is a range in the length of description of his getting up should should fall.

author comment

Thanks. I will be now getting into the tick of it. Just returned after a day at work. the degree of difficulty is a bit more for me, being from a tropical country (india) where the winters are not that chilly leave alone snowfall except in the far north in the Himalayas. So it is sort of chilling and thrilling for me to have a go at this...will wear my thinking cap now :)

raj (sublime_ocean)

use that imagination and you will do fine

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

Thanks for your encouragement. Yippy! I did it....I am now eager to see the score by Stan the Tutor...and I must congratulate you for beating me to the post...you did it in a scurry...

raj (sublime_ocean)

Just think about the coldest day you Have experienced then imagine it while wearing nothing but swim trunks...............stan PS thank god I live down south where it never gets as cold as it does way up in Yankee land

author comment

I had in fact visualized myself the way you have said to a freezing point and then brought myself back into the tropics to let the ideas thaw...lol...I have worked a bit more in the form of tweaking up my post this morning and await evaluations, comments and critiques by fellow participants...

raj (sublime_ocean)

To think at one time you were hesitant about running a workshop. This one is incredible. Are you sure you never taught lol

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

I guess if one counts teaching people carpentry and other trades on the job counts then I Have taught before. But I've never taught in a traditional sense of the word. And in trying to help others I find I'm learning a bit more than I teach. I'd Never given much thought to imagery in my own poetry because I apparently just wrote it without thinking about it. Now that I have to try explain the process it Requires that I think about it lol. Please pass the head ache powders................stan

author comment

It is said "Experience is a tough Teacher, she tests you first before giving lessons" Stan is an exception to this because he first gave us lessons before testing us and continues to do so even after that in his friendly jovial mannerisms..

raj (sublime_ocean)

I guess if one counts teaching people carpentry and other trades on the job counts then I Have taught before. But I've never taught in a traditional sense of the word. And in trying to help others I find I'm learning a bit more than I teach. I'd Never given much thought to imagery in my own poetry because I apparently just wrote it without thinking about it. Now that I have to try explain the process it Requires that I think about it lol. Please pass the head ache powders................stan

author comment

I DID IT :) Tell you what the final hurdle was a stiff one set by you Stan. I had to wreck my brains to find what connection love's has with offices in that line "of love's......offices?...I am posting it in the war zone now, come fire your ammo I am wearing a bulletproof vest lol.. but before i do that, I echo Chry's comment by tipping my hat to salute Stan for the way he is running this shop...

raj (sublime_ocean)

Now that me and Chrys are done with the home work and posted it in stream for the most welcome comments and critique, I wonder who are the next in Stan's firing line...lol..

raj (sublime_ocean)

of the rewritten poems I will await most others' comments before I post mine as I don't want to influence others' thinking. I intend to assign the next two poems Wednesday. In the mean time if you are bored post two lines of poetry which uses indirect imagery (imagery which uses one sense to describe something described by another sense.) here on shop stream. Example :
The bare limbs of the winter trees displayed a sense of doom
As I lay helplessly in bed restricted to my dismal room

author comment

The leaves lay still on snow laden pines
reflecting the pines of my stillborn chimes

raj (sublime_ocean)

The acrid odor of wet leaves smelled like death
while stopping on my walk to take a breath

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

A fertile mind neatly furrowed and tilled,
where seeds of thought quickly sprout.

how about these two liners which were inspired by your two liner, which created an indirect imagery for me...

raj (sublime_ocean)

Very effective indirect imagery.
Here is my share:

Bombs and cannons are firing up the hill
while a robin's singing at my window sill

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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Thanks for the pat. You have done pretty well too. It did create the indirect imagery of the scene created by you.

raj (sublime_ocean)

INCIDENT by Countee Cullen

Once ....in old Baltimore
Heart-...., .......- filled with glee
I saw a Baltimorean
...........looking.......at me

Now I was eight and very............
and he was no ...........
and so I smiled, but he..... .....
his tongue... ...... ...Nigger

I saw ... ....of Baltimore
...............until December
of all the things .... .... ....
that's all I remember

* this poem is rhyming with abcb rhyme pattern.

Serendipity, this one is for you

author comment

Now what is this abcb pattern?

raj (sublime_ocean)

Just made a copy of it Stan will work on it tonight

Jayne x

("Always and Forever") - (Never lose a holy curiosity.-Albert Einstein)

that verse two and four rhyme the same, while the first and fourth are different raj.
I think this makes it a bit harder ex. Congratulations dear Jayne :)

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
www.instgram.com/rularules1

Thanks for the tips it now makes sense. If you feel comfortable with the assignment given to Jayne, you may ask Stan if his shop follows barter system :)

raj (sublime_ocean)

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