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Exporting Oppression (Workshop revision)

Conservative Christian fundamentalism
I know good people who hold these beliefs
they are blind to fatal flaws of thought
I tear my hair,
face sinks to my hands
despair

Corporations
are anti human
anti planet
and support only profit.

The facts are clear
CEO’s salaries,
corporate incomes
rise rise rise
as the people get poorer

Job creators?
job cremators.
wherever possible
it’s machines or die
the 'trickle down effect'
is as filthy a lie
as original sin

Socialism, Communism, Marxism
are dirty words to some
so what do they call it
when the government
bails out corporations?

Conservative Christian fundamentalism,
a carefully constructed export industry
using faith in fictional powers
to make the workers believe the lies
of possibility and potentiality
in the face of
a dying working class
a dying planet

We have rulership by unelected government.

Review Request (Intensity): 
I want the raw truth, feel free to knock me on my back
Last few words: 
I've taken many of the suggestions from critique. A bit better, it may need some time.
Editing stage: 

Comments

and I believe it is an important one.

Why is this poem bad?

More questions that relate to the same:

Why does it need improvement?
Is it because you call it bad, that we should accept that it is?
If someone of Maya Angelou's or (insert any other modern poet who is widely recognized)'s wrote this, will it be considered good?

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

and a simple answer.
It lacks prosodic values. Rhyme, meter, coherence. None of which are necessary in total, but all of which are necessary in part.

I am asking for specific suggestions for improvement. This is partly an exercise. When we critique on the Stream some poems are so bad they need a complete re-write, somehow incorporating the value of the original.

It takes guts to give that sort of critique.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

and goes a very long way.

By this, I can boldly say that any poem be it written or performed (Spoken Word) that does not lack these prosodic values, or uses them poorly, is not a good poem. And should be mended.

This goes a long way to clear things up with me, and fellow poets I meet daily. I'll get back to the poem soon.

Thanks Jess.

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

*If I am allowed here to give a critique to improve this piece,
I would remove all the (((bad))) words. I think they hurt. Even though the whole poem's theme doesn't appeal to me (as I am not a christian in the first place and not part of that wing and not even someone who is engaged deeply in politics) and even though it doesn't touch me, I don't feel happy when I read those words (((f...))), (((dirty))).Why should we insert such words? I think the poem can stand without them , unless you feel the opposite.

**I won't also attack any religion if I want this to be a universal one and read by as many people as wish to...
 *** and finally, I believe in most places it reads as prose with breaks so I think some internal rhymes added here and there and shortening the somehow lengthy lines would give a better feel  and give this a smoother read.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
www.instgram.com/rularules1

It is my opinion that for poetry to be good, it must first be memorable. And to be memorable the title should be concise which this one isn't. For one thing it leads one to think this poem is about Christianity when in fact it's about economics. Perhaps you were trying to overcome this by simply repeating the title twice within the poem itself. In my limited experience repeating a title in a poem seldom works and to repeat it twice almost never works unless the specific form requires it.

There are also many poetic devices that can improve a poem and almost none are evident in this. Now I'm aware that I'm not much a free verser but a few rhymes to lend emphasis here and there wouldn't hurt nor would a bit of alliteration. Now some stanza by stanza thoughts :
S-1,L-2 I think radical might not be the word you really want. Mayde "fatal" is closer to your intent. Plus it would supply a bit of alliteration.
.......L-3 "double face hands"? I think you mean to descibe burying your face in two hands, just swap places with hands and face
S-2 l-1 I think Christian should be capitalized. Would you have not capitalized the name of any other religion?
S-3, I think this entire stanza needs an overhaul.....something like :
It is clear
there has grown a disconnect
CEO's bonused for jobs done badly
corporate profits built on lay-offs
as everyman
suffers
S-4, l-2 delete such
........l-4 try mechanization or die
........for some reason I don't think the last two lines say what you mean them to convey.
S-5, l-1 begin line with "If"
........l-5 self indulgent and doesn't help the poem
S-6, l-1 delete and replace with "corporate ethos"..after all this poem hardly mentions religion
.......l-2 delete is
......l-6 change dying to vanishing....just seems to fit better
last line try Governed by purchased puppets. A bit more accurate PLUS a bit of alliteration

Now to the poem overall. I think this reads as more rant than poem. The title misleads into thinking religion will be discussed when it's actually given mere lip service. Now to the good part : I think I know what your philosophy is and this does a good job in conveying that message. A bit of work could well transform this into a banner poem for these troubled times........................stan

Note the different styles. I love Beau's explanations and Stan's annotations are clear and easy to follow. I have incorporated many of the suggestions.
A note to Rula- I really like expletives and strong language, I removed it in this case because it didn't add anything.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

"A note to Rula- I really like expletives and strong language, I removed it in this case because it didn't add anything"

I know you do (((smiles))) and that's why I assured you that this poem could stand without them. Good decision!!!

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
www.instgram.com/rularules1

I read the poem yesterday (before you edited) and agree
with the edits. I too would have removed the expletive in this
particular poem, not that I am opposed to them (not at all in fact),
but in order to get ones point across it sometimes requires a
bit of finesse. I do have a few suggestions (merely suggestions)

Second stanza; "they" support only profit. The word "they" is redundant,
you've already established who it is you are talking about, a few ways
to go with that, replace it with "and", remove it and use "supporting" or
tell Richard to stick it (lol).

Third stanza; income twice? how about "profit margins" for the
corporate line? I would remove the "and's" from the next line leaving
you with "rise, rise, rise", sounds better to my ear.
"as the people get poorer" ... sounds like bad grammar.

Fourth; is as filthy a lie, you've already used the word lie in
this stanza, plenty of ways to go there, farce, tale, etc ...

The last two stanzas read more like prose than the rest, but,
it would take a bit to fix this ... I do have some ideas but I do
not want to rewrite your work as I feel I've already stepped in
further than I should. I do agree with the content and you've
done a good job in that it isn't so offensive (to the average
Christian) that he/she would not finish the read and that is a
feat in itself. Great start and truly excellent feedback offered
by the other poets.

Richard

Don't be afraid to step in too far. The poet can always ignore you.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

What a team.
With the backing of our poets, it is making a silk purse out of a sows ear.
I used a cliché,
Take care, Yours Ian.T
PS:- I think that this poem???, is a one side object that decries something without a thought of a thing that could replace its flaws, so expertly pointed out.
I have a ruler on my desk here that has both metric and the old Inches on, a balance of a universal way of doing things, each to their own which gives the reader of the ruler an alternative without bias..
This was just a rant about a type of control not a poem or even coming near prose, and I definitely wouldn't write it in a greeting card.
There is no real point to the whole thing, just as a poster held up at Hyde park Corner... LOL It made me smile though, which is good.

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

Quite an improvement. I still think that leading off with the first line is not quite right because you begin talking about economics then wait until near the end of the poem before you say much about religion. Maybe something like "free market capitalism" would be a better first line.............................stan

I have too much to say here for a poem of any reasonable length. The idea that I failed to convey is that faith in any deity predisposes people to arbitrary rulership whether it be by corporations or despotic government.

Free market capitalism is a fallacy. Corporations do everything within their considerable power to unfree the market.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

If you ever decide to lengthen this poem you might want to re-examine one of your presuppositions. "faith in any diety prdisposes people to arbitrary rulership"..........The bloodiest war in American history, and the precursor to modern warfare, was begun by people who were on the whole deeply religious. And it was fought because these people refused to be pushed around by an over-reaching federal government. And this same state of mind is evident in many even to this day(including me).

I know you value truth in writing so don't make such generalized assumptions because the actuality is that there are many who are of religious bent yet also free thinkers. Of course your statement may well be true among the people you have met....................stan

I think it would be helpful for some of us that are fashionably late to the party to see both the original and edited version.

That being said, you proclaimed the work to be bad poetry because it lacked prosodic values (rhyme, meter, coherence). Outside of a little more coherence, I still don't see where these values have been incorporated. I in no way mean any disrespect to you or those that have offered before me, but this is still a bad poem.

In my humble opinion, the language in this poem attacks the time period. If you want to attack the time, then I believe that you should write an essay. Challenge the time in prose and provide clear well thought out passages to convey your true meaning; not brief and subtle stanzas of a poem. Which leads us to a different question. How do writers select the appropriate vehicle for their message? Perhaps another workshop?

To me, the only way this poem ever becomes a good poem is if you stop attacking the time and allow the time to attack the language. I have included an example below from Mr. Donald Justice for reference.

Pantuom of the Great Depression
by Donald Justice

Our lives avoided tragedy
Simply by going on and on,
Without end and with little apparent meaning.
Oh, there were storms and small catastrophes.

Simply by going on and on
We managed. No need for the heroic.
Oh, there were storms and small catastrophes.
I don't remember all the particulars.

We managed. No need for the heroic.
There were the usual celebrations, the usual sorrows.
I don't remember all the particulars.
Across the fence, the neighbors were our chorus.

There were the usual celebrations, the usual sorrows
Thank god no one said anything in verse.
The neighbors were our only chorus,
And if we suffered we kept quiet about it.

At no time did anyone say anything in verse.
It was the ordinary pities and fears consumed us,
And if we suffered we kept quiet about it.
No audience would ever know our story.

It was the ordinary pities and fears consumed us.
We gathered on porches; the moon rose; we were poor.
What audience would ever know our story?
Beyond our windows shone the actual world.

We gathered on porches; the moon rose; we were poor.
And time went by, drawn by slow horses.
Somewhere beyond our windows shone the actual world.
The Great Depression had entered our souls like fog.

And time went by, drawn by slow horses.
We did not ourselves know what the end was.
The Great Depression had entered our souls like fog.
We had our flaws, perhaps a few private virtues.

But we did not ourselves know what the end was.
People like us simply go on.
We had our flaws, perhaps a few private virtues,
But it is by blind chance only that we escape tragedy.

And there is no plot in that; it is devoid of people.

Scott

I have all these thoughts on my mind and an essay, paper or article is certainly the way to deal with them, or maybe memes on Facebook [grins].

You can compare the revisions to the original simply by clicking the 'Revisions' button above the title.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Didn't know about the revisions button.

Scott

Who among you has ever said, effectively "This shouldn't have been a poem"?
But I bet you've thought it.
This is real guts and honesty.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

You've summed it up in a response to the workshop;

Workshop

I have too much to say here for a poem of any reasonable length. The idea that I failed to convey is that faith in any deity predisposes people to arbitrary rulership whether it be by corporations or despotic government.

Free market capitalism is a fallacy. Corporations do everything within their considerable power to unfree the market.

I don't agree that it shouldn't be a poem, make it one !!!

Richard

At the same time would you agree that some poems should not have been written and that the poet needs to know?

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

but, for different reasons. Some poets refuse to research,
and want to write about things they haven't a clue about, it
generally comes out in the writing, that isn't the case here.

telling people they don't know what the fuck they're talking about, though I may have learned a little diplomacy since then. Nonetheless it needs to be said. We are not doing anyone any favours by letting them spout ignorant drivel unchallenged.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

I too believe ignorance should be challenged, but with at
least a certain degree of diplomacy. There aren't any ideas
or beliefs that are above question but a person can be
reasonable on either side (usually).

cheers to you

cold and crumbling books, pseudonymous
breathed through to broods adactylous
blinding minds to yawning flaws, metal strands
to tear the heir
face sinks to hands
despair

The words of prophets nourish
the curds of profits flourish
political genome linked
watch the planet decay, we blinked

the obvious is there
oppressive games pick their
players like FBI or M1, KGB, or CIA
corporate incomes pay
rise rise rise, a bully's knuckle
dense weight at top, the clay legs buckle

Job creators for Ivy league
connected families intrigue
the ironic cyclonic lies
are trapped within the eyes
myopic view of future, next quarter

Socialism, Communism, Marxism
demonized to a wobbly schism
as they gulp their bowls
of soylent green and acme holes
well oiled machines and a hunchbacked porter

belief in a creator to ease broken backs
gripped tightly by power lest there be attacks
using faith as voting, political agenda
and fool the workers with this referenda
"what matters a wage slave life
or a sickly world, our payment rife
with silver mansions on streets of golden mortar"

as one insignificant planet heaved
from the most virulent parasites ever recieved:

humankind

I guess that's more the way I would have done it, for better or worse, Jess. I don't know if it will be useful for you but often if I'm coming from a prosiac point of view (trying to explain a point rather than be 'poetic', my first step is to remove the from the sentences. I couldn't agree more with what you've written though it was more like a news report than a poem style-wise. I also have a hard time separating the peripheral topics like why do we stand for it? The answer is reality TV, The Kardashians, Football, baseball, and basketball, Beer and cigarettes more heavily marketed in rural factory areas and inner cities so we'll die before we collect our Social Security. If this were 200-300 years ago, we'd be taking it to the streets with guns and machetes, so even our deaths would stand as a warning. Not now, we're sheep. It may be Dadaist to say but without the unforseen occurrence of some really big event that halts our current path, we're doomed, and despite my family and future generations, maybe it's for the best.

Ron
BlueDemon77

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

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