About workshops

Workshops on Neopoet are groups that meet for a certain period of time to focus on a certain aspect of poetry. Each workshop participant is asked to critique all the other poems submitted into a workshop. A workshop leader helps coordinate -- they set the agenda, give participants feedback on whether their submissions and critique are at they level expected of them, and after the workshop is over, give feedback to participants. 

To join a workshop, first find one that is of interest to you. Once you have found the right workshop (and verified that it is open -- you can find this out in the description below), you can apply to join the workshop.


Join the Neopoet online poetry workshop and community to improve as a writer, meet fellow poets, and showcase your work. Sign up, submit your poetry, and get started.

Show And Tell: Intensive Critique Workshop

Status: 
Program description/goal: 

Leaders: BlueDemon77and weirdelf

Moderators: weirdelf, beauregard

Description: Each participant will submit one poem they feel needs work, one they are having trouble perfecting, or feel is under-appreciated. One other participant will be assigned to give it a vigorous critique at every level. Some of the areas or topics of the critique would include
- form, rhyme, assonance, consonance, meter, poetic technique (metaphor, alliteration, ect.) and how effective it is to the readers understanding of the work. Ultimately the critic should quantify the poem, including how well it works and how it relates to the content
- content, what the content is, whether it is significant, meaningful, true. What is revealed by exposition and in -subtext. Do you agree with it the writers opinion as you see it? Why?
- style, is the poem well crafted?, is there a strong lexis? Interesting and creative use of language?
- imagery, what imagery is used, what kinds, how effective is it?
-emotional content, what are the feelings evoked? Are they "universal'? Are they genuine or masked by sentiment?
- epiphany, does the poem change you? Have a significant impact on your way of seeing the world? If not does it matter? What does it give you?
- redemption, does the poem offer an insight into the human condition? The betterment of the species? Political understanding? Does it need to?

Subjective impressions are encouraged. You’ll give the poem a thorough working over.

Then other participants will critique the critique itself.

Finally the original poet has a right of reply and can submit a revised version.

 

Objectives: To hone our skills in critique to enhance our undertanding of poetry and be better able to give fellow poets menaingful feedback to help improve their craft.

Please remember to tick “Show And Tell- Intensive critique” in the workshop box on the poem submission page and include “(Shark Pool Show and Tell)” after the title of your poem.

We’ll open with a discussion of critique.

This will be challenging for both those critiquing and those being critiqued. Complete honesty is the best approach. This is a unique opportunity to have group attention and focused critique to a piece or pieces of your choosing (we can always begin anew if the group is interested in doing so). This workshop can help our critical abilities as well as our ability as poets. Leave the kid gloves at home though, this is Shark Pool. While we will have a policy of 'across the board' respect, the key to the success of the workshop is honesty in the critiques.

Please join us!

Ron and Jess

Level of expertise: Open to all
 

Length: 
30 days
Number of participants (limit): 
20 people
Skill level: 
Date: 
Thursday, February 28, 2013

Comments

I want to be a part of this!

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

This will be challenging but worthwhile.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

and most welcome. I am excited about this one.

I think I have finally put my nasty, impatient, losing my shit stuff away, with the help of the entire Workshop team and it should be all tree (or cactus) hugging valuable fun.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

I'm not sure about any group that would have me as a member, but what the hell...
We should be able to survive each other for thirty days. so sign me up, If youdare!

Kidding aside,

I actually appreciate you guys who Know how to pull these things together
thanks

Al

Go ahead and count me in . Lord knows I need as much help in understanding subtext and such as I can get. But it might take me a few days after start date before I do anything other than submit my poem...............stan

yep

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

[grins]

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

I might actually join in on something!! see how life here at the position
is ....Might be able to devote more to working then just writing!!!

I am so excited!

Your poetry is so difficult to critique this will be a real challenge.

Welcome!

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

Though I'm not a shark
to swim in this pool
Yet I've always thought
that learning new things is cool

Thanks for the invitation .

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Welcome!

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

Please remember to tick “Show And Tell- Intensive critique” in the workshop drop-down box on the poem submission page and include “(Shark Pool Show and Tell)” after the title of your poem.

Also we will have a few days discussion on the terms of critique before posting any poems for critique.

Please wait till you are asked to post a poem so that we don't get overwhelmed with postings. All posting to the workshop can be found at the link at the top right of this page
http://www.neopoet.com/workshop/view/11251
(Ron! Slap on wrist)

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

Set in motion upon a sinister temple vane thump ticking
for no less than two minutes of liquor lubricated self-debating
with my many a selfishly self hating slave selves in waiting...

I and the bloody gone thirsty for progress in culture curved mirror envy,
oh we will agree that it to be ignored is to be cast off so dis-courteously
So let us unite here to challenge our own words wills as spat into eventuality
humbly and bumbly in none other than a love foolery spree by you, thee, and me.

Apparently the drunk version of me has asked to join this contest.
May I the sober counterpart be his +1?

May I play?

_godshouldnthave (Danny)

now deal with it drunk or sober

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

I feel like I am in a queue of word chaos - who does what, when? Help!

Jenifer

to this workshop, using the dropdown list at the bottom of the poem submission page, and remember to put in brackets (Shark Pool critique) after the title. this is to avoid scaring off newcomers.

And wait your turn to give everyone a fair go at the critique.
William Saint George will post a poem to be critiqued by
ephraimcrud who will later post a poem to be critiqued by
Beauregard who will later post a poem to be critiqued by
Esker who will later post a poem to be critiqued by
Rula who will later post a poem to be critiqued by
brittle light who will later post a poem to be critiqued by
scribbler who will later post a poem to be critiqued by
etc etc.
Allowing a couple of days for each critique so that it proceeds in an orderly manner and no-one is ignored

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

First, how harsh is harsh? If you can't find a redeeming feature in a poem, and some poems have none, how do you say so?

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

Well if we go back to the sandwich technique i guess one could say something like "This poem displays a lot of emotion but it could use some real work on---fill in the blank.....which I am sure you can do much better than I." Then you could give a few specific examples on how a line here and there could be reworded. This can leave the writer free to change as she/he sees fit while also pointing the way toward improvement and also making it clear that there's plenty of room for improvement. Or one could be harsh and say something like " Man this is a poor excuse for poetry" which is not only harsh but will pretty well assure your advice in the future will likely go unread as well as unheeded....................stan

It should never be our intent to be consciously cruel. Criticism is one thing, obliterating is another. I think it's our duty to state the truth about the work we critique, but to do so with an air of a fellow poet.

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

doesn't work with all people especially soft covered -just like me :)
Stan and Beau have said it all indeed !

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

That sums it up well. This is a workshop to help poets with their work by potentially discovering flaws that stop the work from reaching its' potential. Personal attacks and condescenscion should never play a part.

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

Now there are some newcomers in this workshop who might be uncomfortable with some technical terms like meter, prosody, feet (the unit of meter), assonance, consonance and many more.

How will we address that?

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

now we are talking about how to deal with technical terms

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

If there is a concern that the people being addressed don't know the technical terms or language of whatever subject is being discussed it's best to avoid the terms. In engineering it does no good to mention moment arms with a lay person. just say resistance to deflection. Since this shop is open to all levels In my opinion it would be best to avoid technical jargon. After all this shop is about intensive critique , not learning poetic vocabulary. And those here who Do know the language can as easily say flow or beat as rhythm or repeated sounds as illitteration...........................stan

I sort of agree and sort of disagree... I have taught adults in simple language so that people don't get lost - but that can become patronising too. All professionals (or serious people) have developed their own language and terms which can be viewed as intimidating by others - so good to keep some awareness around that. I would suggest explanations are given to clarify terms - I liked ( Beauregard's link, by the way) so that there is another element of adult learning here without talking down. It would disappointing if there good poets are put off , or poets with a good basis of language feel it is too simple.

Jenifer

This is the Shark Pool and I would encourage everyone to discuss the poem with whatever level of understanding they have. We can always clarify later and some technical terms tossed about judiciously might send someone to their craft books or Beau's link.
I have always wanted poets to be critical of my work in the most honest fashion, so I have no fear of this workshop. Indeed, I look forward to it.
The only rule I think need be followed is the standard- critique the poem, not the poet. And of course let's not use "ugly" language. Remember that the grandest compliment one can give an artist is being able to tear their work apart. Junk cannot be critiqued. If someone can be critical of each line in a poem of mine, I can only feel that I'm "on to something". The worst thing I can hear is- "nice poem wes, needs work."
I want to swim with sharks, not goldfish.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

Well said. gin and tonics later.

Jenifer

...like trying to herd cats. Defining lines and limits is ok, but be prepared for anything to happen...sometimes detrimental to the cause, sometimes brilliant surprises....stay loose

Al

Nobody else out there to disagree with me? I don't mean we should talk down to anybody but we all need to remember that although this is a shark pool it has also been opened to minnows like me so don't use technical terms just to prove you know them lol..............stan

Of course we should use the technical terms, how else are we all going to learn if no relevatory information is shared?

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

you are a thresher.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

scientific term is alopias vulpinus but no need to get technical lmao.......................stan

.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

You are real sharks You make these technical terms like minnows , easily can be digested.
thanks Beau for the link . It is more than satisfying.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

Thanks for the repost.

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

there are always similes, if not exact.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

like me is in the shark pool. Sharpening canines as I speak. PS Tough as a boot, don't give a toss bring it on.

Jenifer

Is there anything else anyone wants to bring up before we get toothy on each other's poems?

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

Will there be a limit to poem length?.....................stan

remember the next person is going to do a deep critique on it, so an epic would be awfully long long hard work

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

I'm ready.

Jenifer, can I borry the file?

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

to see if there is anything else we need to discuss then William Saint George will post a poem that ephraim can sink his jaws into.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

Yikes! So it begins...

Quick question, can the poem be one that is already published on this site?

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

of a reasonable length, is chewable. [grins]

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

to this workshop, using the dropdown list at the bottom of the poem submission page, and remember to put in brackets (Shark Pool critique) after the title. this is to avoid scaring off newcomers.

And wait your turn to give everyone a fair go at the critique.
William Saint George will post a poem to be critiqued by
ephraimcrud who will later post a poem to be critiqued by
Beauregard who will later post a poem to be critiqued by
Esker who will later post a poem to be critiqued by
Rula who will later post a poem to be critiqued by
brittle light who will later post a poem to be critiqued by
scribbler who will later post a poem to be critiqued by
etc etc.
Allowing a couple of days for each critique so that it proceeds in an orderly manner and no-one is ignored

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

er... perhaps except in the case of a General

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

Yes, this is the toughest Workshop on Neopoet, but all rules of respect are adhered to. You are totally free to disagree with critique given and accept or reject suggestions.

We just do away with the soft soap here.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

Oh mista Jess, Ah'm So relieved to know that ah'm not guina be assaulted bah a buncha rood people ..............stan................but seriously to all newbies, If I joined you know it won't be That bad

Jess,

I am listed twice in the participants. should i just go with the first listing?

thanks,

Scott

How far down are we on the list? How long do I have (wait, that's two questions)?
I'm writing original for the workshop and I'm almost through, but you can't rush these things... especially if I'm going to have it ripped to dog food.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

I'm ready. Should I go ahead?

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

Jess said he would PM when it comes your turn or my turn or each person's turn. ..............stan

Send me in coach.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

Let's do it two at a time-

William Saint George post a poem to be critiqued by ephraimcrud

ephraimcrud post a poem to be critiqued by Beauregard

let's go for it!

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

has already posted  perhaps you should take the critique, Ron.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

Try to follow the instructions on the thread.

We post a poem, one person critiques is, then the rest of us critique the critique.

You will find poems posted to the workshop at the link top right of this page
>> View all poems submitted to this workshop
http://www.neopoet.com/workshop/view/11251
 

And above all please don't post until asked to! This is to allow everyone a fair go at their works.

Although Ron and have already posted the order, once again is:

William Saint George will post a poem to be critiqued by
ephraimcrud who will later post a poem to be critiqued by
Beauregard who will later post a poem to be critiqued by
Esker who will later post a poem to be critiqued by
Rula who will later post a poem to be critiqued by
brittle light who will later post a poem to be critiqued by
scribbler who will later post a poem to be critiqued by
eightmenout who will later post a poem to be critiqued by
wesley snow who will later post a poem to be critiqued by
Jenifer James who will later post a poem to be critiqued by

William Saint George and ephraimcrud should post now

Please remember to tick “Show And Tell- Intensive critique” in the workshop box on the poem submission page and include (Shark Pool Show and Tell) after the title of your poem.

 

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

I know I posted Point Omega too early, but I've sent it to the stream proper and will write something new for the workshop. I think it's only fair. So shoe-horn me in for a post somewhere if you would, kind sir.

Thanks,

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

hope it goes well.
We'll sort out when you post when you get back

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

I hope it all goes well, friend.

Will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

So Beau can you post your poem and Esker crtique it?
Ta

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

Since we'll all have a go at the assigned participant's critique, I suggest the critique should have a title like I've done with this comment.

It should make the critique easy to identify when the comment stream becomes very long.

Just a suggestion.

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

thanks William

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

is ready for critique at
http://www.neopoet.com/comment/86096#comment-86096

This is an important part of this workshop- reviewing each other's critiquing techniques, so go for it everyone.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

now we all need to respond to that critique.

http://www.neopoet.com/comment/86300#comment-86300

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

It raises another issue in this workshop. How to give specific suggestions that the poet can relate directly back to their poetry.
I usually quote the line in question and put the suggestion in square brackets at the end of the line. Is that helpful?
Stan usually quotes the stanza and line number and makes a suggestion. Is that preferable?

Any suggestions?

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

in the last post I said how Stan and I do it .
Show us how you do it.
And forget the sandwitch technique. Be harsh and make suggestions.
My question is how to make suggestions so the poet will understand them and relate them directly back to the poem.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

There has been some acrimony and even perhaps censuring (do not mistake the word for censoring) about the critiques of critiques.
The objectives are "To hone our skills in critique to enhance our understanding of poetry and be better able to give fellow poets meaningful feedback to help improve their craft."

The syllabus encourages a vigorous critique, it does not request a thesis. Remember that for those of us back in the stone age still sitting at desks and typing on keyboards, not reclining in an armchair with a 'puterbook, we still read screen by screen and I guarantee you that long critiques or replies will not be read in full by most readers. I know this for a fact because clearly most syllabuses are not read in full by participants.

I'm not saying "dumb it down", quite the opposite, I'm saying make every word count towards helping the poet improve their poem in your opinion. Subjectivity and objectivity have been well discussed.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

Thanks for clarifying that. But just to remind you, I'm still waiting my turn. And Wesley has written on my poem.

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

I was going by the order of participants lists but as that got re-arranged by availability, I kind of missed you. Brittle light is posting next so how about you ravage him and we'll let Stan sink his fangs into whoever I figure out is next. ok?

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

I saved all year for that.
And do I post "my" poem or wait?

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

you will find Wesley's Critique of "Hearts And Unicorns" by William Saint George
at
http://www.neopoet.com/comment/86431#comment-86431.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

http://www.neopoet.com/comment/86611#comment-86611
and
http://www.neopoet.com/comment/86618#comment-86618
They are Stan about Rula's work and Beau about Al's work.
Points to consider. Does the critique help the poet improve the poem and does your critique of their critique help them appreciate more, or less, about poetry.

Everyone will get a turn, I'm just spacing them out a little. Imagine if everyone posted their poem at once! Through no lack of care or appreciation you would get little attention, so please be patient.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

to compare styles and interpretation. Responses to William's take on Al's "Gated"
http://www.neopoet.com/comment/86652#comment-86652
please.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

eightmenout on Ron's 'Predatory'
http://www.neopoet.com/comment/86794#comment-86794

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

See Al's crit of eightmenout's 'I Couldn't Live' at
http://www.neopoet.com/comment/87240#comment-87240

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

Remember, if you want feedback on your poem or crit, you also need to give feedback on others.

10 poems have been posted for crit and crit on crit, have responded to them all?

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

This workshop has dealt only with superb poems that are hard to improve. Now exert your talents at helping someone improve a seriously flawed poem.

This is crap poetry and I present it as a challenge for critique.
"Right wing conservative christian fundamentalism is an export industry"
http://www.neopoet.com/workshop/poems/right-wing-conservative-christian-...

Would anyone like to volunteer to give the critique to be critiqued?

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

I'll give it a shot. I've only read it once and even so have ideas for improvement. I'll stay away from message though as I don't think arguing philosophy is what you want. Just holler if you want me to take a bite at this lol............stan PS I know there are many much better free versers here than I so no offense will be taken if you decide to use someone else

And content is valid to critique. If you disagree say so and why.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

Will post this evening.............stan

Am i late? can i be part?

I'm afraid the workshop is very close to finishing, however if you follow this link
http://www.neopoet.com/workshop/view/11251
you will find all the poems posted so far and you can see each one has a "Workshop Critique" which the other participants then critique the critique itself. Feel free to contribute your views there and then if time perhaps you can post one of your poems for critique.

I will add you to the participants list so that your comments can be highlighted as part of the workshop.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

This workshop is now ended.
Thankyou all for your invaluable participation and input.

Please give me feedback, either here or by PM, as to how you benefited from the workshop and criticisms, ways future workshops could be improved,

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

I don't think this makes but the second of your shops I've participated in. However I've tracked most of the ones I Didn't join. So maybe my saying this might be the best one you've run so far counts for something. The instructions were clear. The participation level was high.

Now on to shops in general. It is my belief that the shorter the duration of a shop, the more involved people will be and the less chance they'll drop out. So the only real advice which might have helped this shop and others is to not let one or two members slow it down too much. Be clear that those who fall behind without good cause will be left behind. It is more important that the majority of members benefit from a reasonable pace that it is that those who for whatever reason lag behind be waited upon. Sounds kind of mean I know but that's my belief.

I appreciate the time you spent running this shop and I think all benefited in that they probably will not be as hesitant to give needed advice on others' poetry in the future...............stan

I agree. It's a little harsh, but "keep up or be left behind". If poets find that a workshop can be bogged down by a lax response, those who will lag behind will be encouraged to allow it to happen and those who are prompt will become (at the least)- bored, (at the worst)- irritated. Bored and irritated poets don't participate in later workshops.
Jess, this shop moved forward promptly even considering the difficulties organizing the original critiques in the beginning.
Also, this format is sound. Now that it has been worked out, I suggest it be repeated every quarter.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

pacing is critical.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

I participated with much fear as it was the first shark pool to do, but as it goes on with all those who participated,my discomfort started to disappear and i started to enjoy how everyone was receiving the critique. Sometimes it went down and slow due to one reason or another but this is OK I think.If I would suggest anything for improving, it would be to limit the participants' number so that one can concentrate more on each piece and the critiques submited

Many thanks for all the shop leaders for giving the time and the effort. I know this isn't easy to be achieved without having a strong will to help others to improve.
Thank you

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

and good suggestion, though it is hard to say no to anyone who wants to join.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

Rula, it is virtually impossible for me to say no to ANYONE who shows an interest in participating. It's much easier to deal with large groups in something like Storytelling in Verse because it is a long term workshop with special circumstances (we're writing stories which generally means much larger works). In that workshop we have plenty of time to be tardy and a large work will mean a larger commitment, so no one will drop out because the shop is slow- that's its character.
In the short term workshops it is harder to maintain enthusiasm and NeoPoet wants to grow, so we don't want to deny participation for any reason if we can help it. We want poets contributing and telling the world what they are contributing to. That's how snowballs are made.
I would rather brainstorm for solutions on how to keep the shop briskly paced and relevant than send someone away because they were tardy in signing up.
By the way Rula, I was pleased with your contributions in this workshop. Not just the quality of your critiques, but because critiquing (anything and everything) is precisely what you will be asked to do on a regular basis as a mentor.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

I thought we musn't let our enthusiasm lead us so that we sacrifice the quality for the quantity. :)
However, neither would I say no to any participant if I had the chance to lead a workshop in the future.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

I also have personal issues about whether I am being too controlling or not. Some say let it be, some say drive 'em hard. We all learn as we go running these things and will all develop our own styles.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

author comment

Your workshop was in the Shark Pool. That should be enough said. However, strangely, I think the highest level of discipline needs to be in the Splash Pool. "Train up your children in the way they must go and they will never depart from it."
Theoretically, by the time a poet is willing to swim in the Olympic Pool (or heaven forbid, swim with sharks) one would think discipline is no longer a problem. But then I've noticed the more esoteric the artist, the looser is his regimen.
But Shark Pool, dude. Sharks. If the blood isn't a tawdry color of rud, then someone needs to open the gates and let them loose.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

One way to maintain pace is to give sufficient time for each participant to complete the step which is required. If they don't get that step done in time, move them to the end of the line and let them catch up with their work then. It doesn't delete them from the shop, doesn't allow them to slow the pace yet encourages them to be punctual so that their works will be read and commented on first while enthusiasm is still high. And of course any preliminary discussion should have a reasonable time limit also with it being understood that later thoughts can still be tagged onto the end of discussion phase...................stan

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