Join the Neopoet online poetry workshop and community to improve as a writer, meet fellow poets, and showcase your work. Sign up, submit your poetry, and get started.
The Rise Of Boadica (Rula WS)
This day the Roman pigs have come to me
I feel the wind of fate has brought me ill.
They're thieves who strip all men of strength of will,
the slaves of sin of greed, they're known to be
For now, a storm has raged across the sea
My rights denied, they're coming set to kill
and add the stain of shame, my soul to chill
they whipped my back to break the heart that's free
They surely don't believe I'll hide in fear -
They may but spit, and mock my clan in pride?
They know me not! I'll rise to stand and fight!
I'm queen of Iceni, I raise my spear!
Unite, my men! Together we will ride!
and may your courage free us from this blight
Style / type:
Structured: Western
Review Request (Intensity):
I want the raw truth, feel free to knock me on my back
Review Request (Direction):
What did you think of my title?
How was my language use?
What did you think of the rhythm or pattern or pacing?
How does this theme appeal to you?
How was the beginning/ending of the poem?
Is the internal logic consistent?
Last few words:
I know this isn't perfect but I've tried my best. Go ahead and send me your comments, critiques and suggestion and I'll get back to you after some rest.
Editing stage:
Workshop:
(c) Neopoet.com. No copyright is claimed by Neopoet to original member content.
Comments
Rula
Thu, 2015-01-29 15:34
I know you're impatiently waiting
The DAY| the RO|man PIGS| have COME| to ME| (PERFECT IAMB)
I FELT |the WIND |of FATE| has BROUGHT |me ILL| (PERFECT IAMB)
for THEY |are THIEVES| who STRIPPED |POOR MEN |of WILL| (ONLY FOOT NO. 4 NEEDS YOUR ATTENTION)(you can easily say "the men"
the SLAVES |of GREED |at HEART,| they're KNOWN| to BE| (PERFECT IAMB)
BRAVO! BRAVO! BRAVO! Khalid
❤❤❤❤❤❤
Please follow me on Instagram https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Rula
Thu, 2015-01-29 15:40
ANOTHER PERFECT QUATRAIN KHALID!!!
For NOW,| a STORM| hasRAGED |inSIDE| of ME|
when THEY| deNY |my RIGHTS |and RAISED |their STEEL|
and ADD| the STAIN |of SHAME| to BEAR |and FEEL|
they WHIPPED |my BACK| to BREAK| the HEART| of ME|
YOU'RE SUPER!!
❤❤❤❤❤❤
Please follow me on Instagram https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
alidzain
Thu, 2015-01-29 15:53
Salam, Rula
Believe me, it take hours to compete this draft, so I'm happy you liked it. The ending stanza however, is messy. Don't know how to edit it.
Alid
Rula
Thu, 2015-01-29 16:46
Khalid
I am giving you tonight to bask in your achievement (that's what sir Wesley used to ask me to do) then look into it after few days with fresh eyes.
Don't panic.
Enjoy your time and relax. You deserve a rest. :)
❤❤❤❤❤❤
Please follow me on Instagram https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Rula
Thu, 2015-01-29 15:56
YOU ARE ALMOST THERE!
doTHEY| beLIEVE| I'll HIDE| and SHAKE| in FEAR|
that THEY| may SPIT| and be|LIttle| my PRIDE?(this line needs your attention)
they KNOW |not ME|! I'll STAND| and FIGHT!| (you need one more foot here)
I'm QUEEN| of I|ceNI|, I RAISE| my SPEAR!|
uNITE|, my MEN! |ToGE|ther WE | will RIDE!|
and MAY| your COU|rage BE|with YOU| toNIGT|
VERY WELL DONE KHALID
sorry for screeming, but I am really really happy. I really applaud your effort.
❤❤❤❤❤❤
Please follow me on Instagram https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Rula
Thu, 2015-01-29 16:04
One problem
lies in the rhyme scheme. In a strict form like a sonnet, it is not allowed to repeat the same word as you did here with the word "me", so I am sorry to say you need to think of other alternative to perfect your sonnet.
Also in the sestet, you rhymed "fight" with "tonight" where one is ONE syllable while the other is two. They should have the same syllable count.
The poem and the theme is profound and well expressed. It hits home if you know what I mean .
The volta is strong and you did the turn required so smoothly.
Thank you Khalid. I really like what you did here.
I am so proud of you brother!!
❤❤❤❤❤❤
Please follow me on Instagram https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Rula
Thu, 2015-01-29 16:07
one suggestion
the line
"they know not me! I'll stand and fight"
Perhaps
they know me not.....sounds better to my ear. Let's see if others have better suggestions.
❤❤❤❤❤❤
Please follow me on Instagram https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
alidzain
Thu, 2015-01-29 17:06
Salam, Rula
having trouble sleeping so I did some edits. What do you think?
Alid
Rula
Thu, 2015-01-29 17:24
Salam Khalid
Good edits indeed!!
I however just noticed S.2 " feel" and "steel".
Those should rhyme with "ill" and "will" in stanza one or vs.
That is "will" and "ill" to rhyme with "feel" and "steel".
Sorry I didn't notice when I first parsed this. I think I am half sleep!
❤❤❤❤❤❤
Please follow me on Instagram https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
alidzain
Fri, 2015-01-30 01:53
Salam, Rula
so there you see lies my probem. I don't know how to edit them to follow the rhyme patten for sonnet. Any ideas?
Alid
judyanne
Fri, 2015-01-30 02:13
suggestions for the rhyme
when they deny my rights and come to kill
('when they' still off scansion, as I pointed out below)
( they try deny my rights... ?
and add the stain of shame, my heart to chill
love judy
xxx
'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)
alidzain
Fri, 2015-01-30 02:22
judy
I thought "they" is a stressed word. hmmmm
Alid
judyanne
Thu, 2015-01-29 23:50
awesome Alid
A few little things - very little things...
for they | are THIEVES...
when they | DEN -y | my RIGHTS...
DO they | be- LIEVE...
that they | may SPLIT...
and may | your COUR | -age FREE...
great sonnet Alid, well done
love judy
xxx
'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)
alidzain
Fri, 2015-01-30 02:05
judy
oh dear, I don't know which one is correct. You see, Rula's one differs from your comments so frankly, I'm abit lost. Even when I try to edit I can't find a way to do it and still deliver the same message. Help, please. I'm really out of ideas. I'm calling SOS.
Alid
judyanne
Fri, 2015-01-30 02:24
then check the dictionary Alid
I don't think Rula's parsing of this differs too much from mine
It's easy to miss little stresses and mis-stresses - especially when the poem is good (as this is) for one gets into the rhythm and then puts stresses where the poem calls for it, and not where they actually are.
the very best way, is to listen. Stop before reading each line, than read it aloud and as if it is part of a work of prose....
love judy
xxx
'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)
Rula
Fri, 2015-01-30 02:38
Salam Khalid
I see the difference between Judy's and mine.
There is still a disputation between us on this. It is something I read in a published article and I still have a screen shot of it but unfortunately the direct link to it is broken, therefore unable to link directly to it, but here I quote:
"In any series of three unstressed syllables in a line of verse, one of them, generally the middle syllable, will take a secondary stress through promotion, and the promoted syllable will stand in place of a stressed syllable:
Thus in your case, (and many other) for they are ...THEY is promoted and take a secondary stress and therefore replace the STRESSED syllable
for They| are THIEVES
and
that THEY|may SPIT
and
may YOUR cou RAGE ....or COUrage (both are right according to my dictionary)
I still don't agree with DO they.... I believe it depends on the context. As I understand your line here, You're stressing on THEY not Do (IMO)
BUT I agree with judy's DEny ......my mistake
❤❤❤❤❤❤
Please follow me on Instagram https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
alidzain
Fri, 2015-01-30 03:33
Salam, Rula
"when they deny my rights and raised their kill"
got you its DEny, so how to edit/
Can't take away "when", unless its oky to do this
"they deny all my rights and raised their kill"
if I did, will the the link with the previous verse be broken since I link them with "when"
Alid
judyanne
Fri, 2015-01-30 03:49
you maybe need to
look at the whole line Alid
maybe something like
Denying rights and raising hoards to kill
love judy
xxx
'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)
judyanne
Fri, 2015-01-30 03:41
my argument
is that an unstressed syllable will take on a stressed role only after a word with a vowel ending
For they are thieves - the word 'they' comes after 'for' which ends in a consonant.
There are times that 'they' can be stressed - but this is not one of them
love judy
xxx
'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)
judyanne
Fri, 2015-01-30 05:43
published article
Your emphasis on that in your comment, implies that I am just talking off the top of my head Rula. I assure you, anything I state regarding grammar comes from being taught it (English major) or read in published articles..... or it just plain being my mother tongue (lol)
i have discussed homomorphic consonants and stresses with you a few times now. Perhaps if you still think I don't know what I'm talking about, you could look them up yourself?
love judy
xxx
'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)
Rula
Fri, 2015-01-30 07:51
Dear judy
I am not implying anything. I am only stating what I have read and it is what I depend on as a non-native.lol
You might be right too. So, why don't you simply quote or link us to one of these, then the poet has the choice to decide which one convinced him better. :)
In fact such discussions and quotes from published article or books for known specialists enrich the workshp and add some spices. :)
However, we need not to forget the importance of the context which will often dictate whether an unimportant one-syllable will take a rhetorical stress.
Here is again an example:
È ¢ È ¢ È ¢ È ¢
I wish you were my honeybun —
È ¢ È ¢ È ¢ È ¢
If I were you I'd run away.
PS .
"¢" represents the STRESSED syllable While "È" represents the UNSTRESSED syllable and they are placed on the vowels
❤❤❤❤❤❤
Please follow me on Instagram https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
judyanne
Fri, 2015-01-30 07:49
Rula, am I missing something? sorry
The above examples seem to me to have the usual stress of those words...
I am sorry, but I haven't time to hunt these things down... ask google questions and you'll be led on a journey of information, if you're interested enough. If i happen to come across a citation next time I'm cruising a phonetics article, I will be sure to draw it to your attention.
I only know, that three unstressed words together are more likely to be said quickly - due to the music of rhythm ...they BOUGHT the TICK -ets for the SHOW ... TICK -ets for the SHOW -'for' is not emphasised
there are certain times that an unstressed word can be emphasised, but the rules are very rigid
As I say, the best way to really hear if the stresses are there, is to read each verse on its own, and approach it as a sentence that you would be reading in a novel.
In a sonnet, the emphasis needs to be strong. Even if the emphasis could, rules permitting, be put on the middle word, it is usually weaker than the surrounding stresses, and quite noticeable to one whose ear is tuned
Love judy
xxx
'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)
Rula
Fri, 2015-01-30 08:17
I agree
when an unstressed word promoted to stressed due to the surrounding syllables, it takes only a secondary stress (but any way it replaces the stressed syllable )and it is always weaker than the originally strong one.
So I think it is advisable to avoid these series of unstressed syllables and limit using them as much as possible.
❤❤❤❤❤❤
Please follow me on Instagram https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
judyanne
Fri, 2015-01-30 04:14
I have some suggestions if you like
Only 4 verses seem out to me now in this very awesome write. I like it very much
When they deny my rights and raised their kill .... already given suggestion
For they are thieves who strip the men of will
Those thieves who strip all men of strength of will
Do they believe I'll hide and shake in fear
They surely don't believe I'll hide in fear
That they may spit and rock my clan in pride
They may but spit, and rock my clan in pride?
love judy
xxx
'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)
alidzain
Fri, 2015-01-30 12:24
judy
is 'they're', in your opinion, stressed word or not?
I'm thinking of editing this "For they are thieves who strip the men of will" into
"they're thieves who strip all men of strength of will"
as for "Do they believe I'll hide and shake in fear "and
"They surely don't believe I'll hide in fear"
The thing is I want this verse as a question like chidding or the character is saying like they think I will fear them, they got it wrong. I'm tempted to switch it to
"surely they don't believe I'll hide in fear?" but that will messed up the pattern here. Anyway I could send the message without making it all wrong?
Alid
judyanne
Fri, 2015-01-30 21:17
Alid
'They're thieves who strip all men of will' is good iambic
And, re my suggestion with the other lines - I knew what you wanted to say - hence the question mark.
If you still don't think that expresses it properly, then perhaps a dash at the end of the previous line to join the two more into one thought
'They surely don't believe I'll hide in fear -
They may but spit, and rock my clan in pride?'
Hope this helps
love judy
xxx
'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)
alidzain
Sat, 2015-01-31 01:16
Hi Judy
I've edited 'when they deny my rights and raised their kill' to 'they're denying my rights and raised their kill'. What do you think?
Alid
judyanne
Sat, 2015-01-31 01:46
no sorry Alid
they're de | -NY- ing | my RIGHTS | and RAISED | their KILL
How about something like
my RIGHTS | den -IED, | they're COM | -ing SET | to KILL
love judy
xxx
'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)
judyanne
Sat, 2015-01-31 01:46
or even
my RIGHTS | de -NIED, | they COME | prep -ARED | to KILL
xxx
'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)
alidzain
Sat, 2015-01-31 03:03
judy
just asking to clear up the confusion..
In your earlier comment - when they | DEN -y | my RIGHTS..., so I thought I ws wrong that the 'Den" part is the really stressed one, thus I edit it the way you see it but now in your recent comment - 'they're de | -NY- ing | my RIGHTS | and RAISED | their KILL', its the 'NY" which is stressed, how does this come about? Am I missing something here?
Alid
judyanne
Sat, 2015-01-31 05:26
Alid
Sorry - may be my mistake, I think
I'm on my phone - can't see clearly what I have done
but it is de -NY... de -NIED... de -NY-ing-
love judy
xxx
'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)
alidzain
Fri, 2015-01-30 12:34
ladies
I wonder where are the other participants. I'm waiting for them to offer their input too. A little disappointed. lol.
Alid
Rula
Sat, 2015-01-31 07:37
Hello Khalid
I think everyone is busy wrting a Petrarchan sonnet. :))
Seriously, you are doing really great, and I am expecting more questions from all.
❤❤❤❤❤❤
Please follow me on Instagram https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
raj
Fri, 2015-01-30 13:29
Alid
So good to know you could achieve so much success in your maiden Sonnet in spite of what you are going through. I salute you..
Regards,
raj (sublime_ocean)
alidzain
Fri, 2015-01-30 14:22
Raj
thanks for the visit and the comment. All I can say is when you need something to distract you from pain and the meths aren't helping much, writing helps a great deal especially when you've got a good teacher to guide you through.
Alid
raj
Fri, 2015-01-30 14:24
Alid
You are being humble. It is true though that getting help of well meaning folks like Rula and Judyanne is a bonus.
Regards,
raj (sublime_ocean)
alidzain
Fri, 2015-01-30 14:38
Raj
I concur with you on that one 100%.:D
Alid
judyanne
Sat, 2015-01-31 10:41
applause
Great edits alid
now you have the iambic down, can I make a couple of crits on a couple of other unimportant things. This write is so good, I just think it needs these looked at, so that absolutely nothing detracts from it
The first two verses seem to have mixed tense...
The day the Roman pigs have come to me
I felt the wind of fate has brought me ill
Maybe
this day the Roman pigs have come to me
I feel the wind of fate has brought me ill
(and I would capitalise Roman)
'heart' - you have used the word three times throughout the write
I know it is hard to find many synonyms for it, other than soul, that are monosyllables
Perhaps stanza 1 verse 4 could be
the slaves of greed and (something else they are slaves of )
Or
the slaves of sin of greed...
just suggestions
leaving 'heart' in verse 3 stanza 2, I would change the 'heart' in verse 4 to 'soul'
But that's just imo
You might feel you want to stress the heart of Boadica (lol - no pun intended)
love judy
xxx
'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)
alidzain
Sat, 2015-01-31 13:50
Done the edit, Judy
thank you for the , the patience, the lessons and suggestions you've given me. Really appreciate them.
Alid
Rula
Sat, 2015-01-31 12:39
Kudos Khalid
great edits. Hope the rest to come up with their sonnets soon.
I didn't expect perfection from the first attempt, so I hope they won't shy sharing what they have.
Thank you Khalid.
❤❤❤❤❤❤
Please follow me on Instagram https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
alidzain
Sat, 2015-01-31 13:53
Shukran, Rula
for the time, patience, teachings, encouragement and suggestions. Can't do it without both you and Judy's aid.
Alid
Sparrow
Sat, 2015-01-31 19:10
Alid
I don't think my comments at this level will be of use to you the two ladies have all the knowledge in their minds to sort this out.
I liked your write and it was a great attempt, and of course you have done better than me.
I stopped being taught English at 15 so haven't the skill of Rula and Judy.
Poetry to me if fun , and if the fun becomes too strained it no longer is fun, I shall return to my cave and tinkle with my crystal radio, though now they have gone digital my lump of coal no longer picks up any of the good programmes, Take care young Khalid, my thoughts go out to you as you struggle so and my best thoughts to your Kin,
Yours as always Ian
.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti
alidzain
Fri, 2015-02-06 04:42
Thank you, Ian
for the visit and comment.
Alid
wesley snow
Thu, 2015-02-05 21:55
I've been monitoring Alid.
Quite a conversation going on. I hope you are taking it all in. Remember not to believe everything you hear, but take what sounds reasonable and experiment with it to see if it has merit. This conversation has been more enlightened than many, so be pleased they chose your poem to have their discussion about.
By the way, without any critique, let me say your poem is a triumph.
W. H. Snow
A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley
Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about
alidzain
Fri, 2015-02-06 04:39
Thank you,Wes
for the visit and comments. I'll try to folllow your advice.
Alid