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The Rise Of Boadica (Rula WS)

This day the Roman pigs have come to me
I feel the wind of fate has brought me ill.
They're thieves who strip all men of strength of will,
the slaves of sin of greed, they're known to be

For now, a storm has raged across the sea
My rights denied, they're coming set to kill
and add the stain of shame, my soul to chill
they whipped my back to break the heart that's free

They surely don't believe I'll hide in fear -
They may but spit, and mock my clan in pride?
They know me not! I'll rise to stand and fight!
I'm queen of Iceni, I raise my spear!
Unite, my men! Together we will ride!
and may your courage free us from this blight

Style / type: 
Structured: Western
Review Request (Intensity): 
I want the raw truth, feel free to knock me on my back
Review Request (Direction): 
What did you think of my title?
How was my language use?
What did you think of the rhythm or pattern or pacing?
How does this theme appeal to you?
How was the beginning/ending of the poem?
Is the internal logic consistent?
Last few words: 
I know this isn't perfect but I've tried my best. Go ahead and send me your comments, critiques and suggestion and I'll get back to you after some rest.
Editing stage: 

Comments

The DAY| the RO|man PIGS| have COME| to ME| (PERFECT IAMB)

I FELT |the WIND |of FATE| has BROUGHT |me ILL| (PERFECT IAMB)

for THEY |are THIEVES| who STRIPPED |POOR MEN |of WILL| (ONLY FOOT NO. 4 NEEDS YOUR ATTENTION)(you can easily say "the men"

 the SLAVES |of GREED |at HEART,| they're KNOWN| to BE| (PERFECT IAMB)

BRAVO! BRAVO! BRAVO! Khalid

 

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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For NOW,| a STORM| hasRAGED |inSIDE| of ME|

when THEY| deNY |my RIGHTS |and RAISED |their STEEL|

and ADD| the STAIN |of SHAME| to BEAR |and FEEL|

they WHIPPED |my BACK| to BREAK| the HEART| of ME|

YOU'RE SUPER!!

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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Believe me, it take hours to compete this draft, so I'm happy you liked it. The ending stanza however, is messy. Don't know how to edit it.

Alid

author comment

I am giving you tonight to bask in your achievement (that's what sir Wesley used to ask me to do) then look into it after few days with fresh eyes.
Don't panic.
Enjoy your time and relax. You deserve a rest. :)

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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doTHEY| beLIEVE| I'll HIDE| and SHAKE| in FEAR|

that THEY| may SPIT| and be|LIttle| my PRIDE?(this line needs your attention)

they KNOW |not ME|! I'll STAND| and FIGHT!| (you need one more foot here)

I'm QUEEN| of I|ceNI|, I RAISE| my SPEAR!|

uNITE|, my MEN! |ToGE|ther WE | will RIDE!|

and MAY| your COU|rage BE|with YOU| toNIGT|

 

VERY WELL DONE KHALID

sorry for screeming, but I am really really happy. I really applaud your effort.

 

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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lies in the rhyme scheme. In a strict form like a sonnet, it is not allowed to repeat the same word as you did here with the word "me", so I am sorry to say you need to think of other alternative to perfect your sonnet.

Also in the sestet, you rhymed "fight" with "tonight" where one is ONE syllable while the other is two. They should have the same syllable count.

The poem and the theme is profound and well expressed. It hits home if you know what I mean .

The volta is strong and you did the turn required so smoothly.

Thank you Khalid.  I really like what you did here.

I am so proud of you brother!!

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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the line
"they know not me! I'll stand and fight"
Perhaps
they know me not.....sounds better to my ear. Let's see if others have better suggestions.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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having trouble sleeping so I did some edits. What do you think?

Alid

author comment

Good edits indeed!!

I however just noticed S.2 " feel" and "steel".
Those should rhyme with "ill" and "will" in stanza one or vs.
That is "will" and "ill" to rhyme with "feel" and "steel".
Sorry I didn't notice when I first parsed this. I think I am half sleep!

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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so there you see lies my probem. I don't know how to edit them to follow the rhyme patten for sonnet. Any ideas?

Alid

author comment

when they deny my rights and come to kill
('when they' still off scansion, as I pointed out below)
( they try deny my rights... ?

and add the stain of shame, my heart to chill

love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

I thought "they" is a stressed word. hmmmm

Alid

author comment

A few little things - very little things...
for they | are THIEVES...
when they | DEN -y | my RIGHTS...
DO they | be- LIEVE...
that they | may SPLIT...
and may | your COUR | -age FREE...

great sonnet Alid, well done
love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

oh dear, I don't know which one is correct. You see, Rula's one differs from your comments so frankly, I'm abit lost. Even when I try to edit I can't find a way to do it and still deliver the same message. Help, please. I'm really out of ideas. I'm calling SOS.

Alid

author comment

I don't think Rula's parsing of this differs too much from mine
It's easy to miss little stresses and mis-stresses - especially when the poem is good (as this is) for one gets into the rhythm and then puts stresses where the poem calls for it, and not where they actually are.

the very best way, is to listen. Stop before reading each line, than read it aloud and as if it is part of a work of prose....

love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

I see the difference between Judy's and mine.

There is still a disputation between us on this. It is something I read in a published article and I still have a screen shot of it but unfortunately the direct link to it is broken, therefore unable to link directly to it, but here I quote:

"In any series of three unstressed syllables in a line of verse, one of them, generally the middle syllable, will take a secondary stress through promotion, and the promoted syllable will stand in place of a stressed syllable:

Thus in your case, (and many other) for they are ...THEY is promoted and take a secondary stress and therefore replace the STRESSED syllable

for They| are THIEVES

and

that THEY|may SPIT

and

may YOUR cou RAGE ....or COUrage (both are right according to my dictionary)

I still don't agree with DO they.... I believe it depends on the context. As I understand your line here, You're stressing on THEY not Do (IMO)

BUT I agree with judy's DEny ......my mistake

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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"when they deny my rights and raised their kill"
got you its DEny, so how to edit/
Can't take away "when", unless its oky to do this
"they deny all my rights and raised their kill"
if I did, will the the link with the previous verse be broken since I link them with "when"

Alid

author comment

look at the whole line Alid

maybe something like
Denying rights and raising hoards to kill

love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

is that an unstressed syllable will take on a stressed role only after a word with a vowel ending
For they are thieves - the word 'they' comes after 'for' which ends in a consonant.
There are times that 'they' can be stressed - but this is not one of them
love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Your emphasis on that in your comment, implies that I am just talking off the top of my head Rula. I assure you, anything I state regarding grammar comes from being taught it (English major) or read in published articles..... or it just plain being my mother tongue (lol)

i have discussed homomorphic consonants and stresses with you a few times now. Perhaps if you still think I don't know what I'm talking about, you could look them up yourself?

love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

I am not implying anything. I am only stating what I have read and it is what  I depend on as a non-native.lol

You might be right too. So, why don't you simply quote or link us to one of these, then the poet has the choice to decide which one convinced him better. :)

In fact such discussions and quotes from published article or books for known specialists enrich the workshp and add some spices. :)

However, we need not to forget the importance of the context which will often dictate whether an unimportant one-syllable will take a rhetorical stress.

Here is again an example:

È   ¢    È      ¢     È   ¢  È   ¢

I wish you were my honeybun —

È  ¢   È    ¢    È   ¢   È  ¢

If  I were you I'd run away.

PS .

"¢" represents the STRESSED syllable While "È" represents the UNSTRESSED syllable and they are placed on the vowels

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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The above examples seem to me to have the usual stress of those words...

I am sorry, but I haven't time to hunt these things down... ask google questions and you'll be led on a journey of information, if you're interested enough. If i happen to come across a citation next time I'm cruising a phonetics article, I will be sure to draw it to your attention.

I only know, that three unstressed words together are more likely to be said quickly - due to the music of rhythm ...they BOUGHT the TICK -ets for the SHOW ... TICK -ets for the SHOW -'for' is not emphasised

there are certain times that an unstressed word can be emphasised, but the rules are very rigid

As I say, the best way to really hear if the stresses are there, is to read each verse on its own, and approach it as a sentence that you would be reading in a novel.

In a sonnet, the emphasis needs to be strong. Even if the emphasis could, rules permitting, be put on the middle word, it is usually weaker than the surrounding stresses, and quite noticeable to one whose ear is tuned

Love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

when an unstressed word promoted to stressed due to the surrounding syllables, it takes only a secondary stress (but any way it replaces the stressed syllable )and it is always weaker than the originally strong one.

So I think it is advisable to avoid these series of unstressed syllables and limit using them as much as possible.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
www.instgram.com/rularules1

Only 4 verses seem out to me now in this very awesome write. I like it very much

When they deny my rights and raised their kill .... already given suggestion

For they are thieves who strip the men of will
Those thieves who strip all men of strength of will

Do they believe I'll hide and shake in fear
They surely don't believe I'll hide in fear

That they may spit and rock my clan in pride
They may but spit, and rock my clan in pride?

love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

is 'they're', in your opinion, stressed word or not?
I'm thinking of editing this "For they are thieves who strip the men of will" into
"they're thieves who strip all men of strength of will"

as for "Do they believe I'll hide and shake in fear "and
"They surely don't believe I'll hide in fear"

The thing is I want this verse as a question like chidding or the character is saying like they think I will fear them, they got it wrong. I'm tempted to switch it to
"surely they don't believe I'll hide in fear?" but that will messed up the pattern here. Anyway I could send the message without making it all wrong?

Alid

author comment

'They're thieves who strip all men of will' is good iambic

And, re my suggestion with the other lines - I knew what you wanted to say - hence the question mark.

If you still don't think that expresses it properly, then perhaps a dash at the end of the previous line to join the two more into one thought
'They surely don't believe I'll hide in fear -
They may but spit, and rock my clan in pride?'

Hope this helps
love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

I've edited 'when they deny my rights and raised their kill' to 'they're denying my rights and raised their kill'. What do you think?

Alid

author comment

they're de | -NY- ing | my RIGHTS | and RAISED | their KILL
How about something like
my RIGHTS | den -IED, | they're COM | -ing SET | to KILL

love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

my RIGHTS | de -NIED, | they COME | prep -ARED | to KILL
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

just asking to clear up the confusion..
In your earlier comment - when they | DEN -y | my RIGHTS..., so I thought I ws wrong that the 'Den" part is the really stressed one, thus I edit it the way you see it but now in your recent comment - 'they're de | -NY- ing | my RIGHTS | and RAISED | their KILL', its the 'NY" which is stressed, how does this come about? Am I missing something here?

Alid

author comment

Sorry - may be my mistake, I think
I'm on my phone - can't see clearly what I have done

but it is de -NY... de -NIED... de -NY-ing-

love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

I wonder where are the other participants. I'm waiting for them to offer their input too. A little disappointed. lol.

Alid

author comment

I think everyone is busy wrting a Petrarchan sonnet. :))

Seriously, you are doing really great, and I am expecting more questions from all.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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So good to know you could achieve so much success in your maiden Sonnet in spite of what you are going through. I salute you..

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

thanks for the visit and the comment. All I can say is when you need something to distract you from pain and the meths aren't helping much, writing helps a great deal especially when you've got a good teacher to guide you through.

Alid

author comment

You are being humble. It is true though that getting help of well meaning folks like Rula and Judyanne is a bonus.

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

I concur with you on that one 100%.:D

Alid

author comment

Great edits alid

now you have the iambic down, can I make a couple of crits on a couple of other unimportant things. This write is so good, I just think it needs these looked at, so that absolutely nothing detracts from it

The first two verses seem to have mixed tense...

The day the Roman pigs have come to me
I felt the wind of fate has brought me ill

Maybe
this day the Roman pigs have come to me
I feel the wind of fate has brought me ill
(and I would capitalise Roman)

'heart' - you have used the word three times throughout the write
I know it is hard to find many synonyms for it, other than soul, that are monosyllables

Perhaps stanza 1 verse 4 could be
the slaves of greed and (something else they are slaves of )
Or
the slaves of sin of greed...
just suggestions

leaving 'heart' in verse 3 stanza 2, I would change the 'heart' in verse 4 to 'soul'

But that's just imo
You might feel you want to stress the heart of Boadica (lol - no pun intended)
love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

thank you for the , the patience, the lessons and suggestions you've given me. Really appreciate them.

Alid

author comment

great edits. Hope the rest to come up with their sonnets soon.
I didn't expect perfection from the first attempt, so I hope they won't shy sharing what they have.

Thank you Khalid.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
www.instgram.com/rularules1

for the time, patience, teachings, encouragement and suggestions. Can't do it without both you and Judy's aid.

Alid

author comment

I don't think my comments at this level will be of use to you the two ladies have all the knowledge in their minds to sort this out.
I liked your write and it was a great attempt, and of course you have done better than me.
I stopped being taught English at 15 so haven't the skill of Rula and Judy.
Poetry to me if fun , and if the fun becomes too strained it no longer is fun, I shall return to my cave and tinkle with my crystal radio, though now they have gone digital my lump of coal no longer picks up any of the good programmes, Take care young Khalid, my thoughts go out to you as you struggle so and my best thoughts to your Kin,
Yours as always Ian

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

for the visit and comment.

Alid

author comment

Quite a conversation going on. I hope you are taking it all in. Remember not to believe everything you hear, but take what sounds reasonable and experiment with it to see if it has merit. This conversation has been more enlightened than many, so be pleased they chose your poem to have their discussion about.
By the way, without any critique, let me say your poem is a triumph.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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for the visit and comments. I'll try to folllow your advice.

Alid

author comment
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