About workshops

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Meter Is Our Friend

Submitted by wesley snow on Sun, 2015-02-22 17:27

Status:

Concluded

Program description/goal:

Description: A workshop concerning the fundamentals of poetic meter.

Leader: Wesley Snow
Moderator(s): Rula, Judyanne

Objectives: For those who have found meter difficult in the past, this workshop will be a comprehensive attempt at solving the difficulty once and for all.

Level of expertise: Open to all

Subject matter: Poetic meter and its application.

Length:

30 days

Number of participants (limit):

15 people

Participants:

lonlyhrtsclub13

Enos Kwaku Dade Boadu

Skill level:

Date:

Tuesday, March 3, 2015 to Friday, April 3, 2015

Short description:

Participants will be asked to work with a number of exercises including writing verses in meterical arrangement.

Comments

scribbler

Mon, 2015-03-09 13:05

it seems

that trochee works best in high emotion poetry

judyanne

Tue, 2015-03-10 06:33

yes

Ta dum ta dum ta dum - walking/happy
Ta ta dum ta ta dum ta ta dum - skipping/dancing
dum ta dum ta dum ta - serious/miserable
dum ta ta dum ta ta dum ta ta - tap dancing/corroboree

xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

wesley snow

Tue, 2015-03-10 14:09

I agree.

Anapest has traditionally been used in light hearted faire, where dactyl was the meter of the ancient heroic epics.
Trochee is more immediate, where iamb is less so.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

wesley snow

Tue, 2015-03-10 14:12

That last syllable

makes me crazy also. I always have to add it later when I figured out what was wrong with the meter.
Every time I do this.
On the other hand, I love your verse length.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Rula

Mon, 2015-03-09 09:30

trochaic

Precious moments last forever...

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Please follow me on Instagram https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

wesley snow

Tue, 2015-03-10 14:07

Yes.

But I expect it from you.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Seren

Mon, 2015-03-09 10:29

I am meter brain dead, wish

I am meter brain dead, wish you all well this is a workshop I really wish I had the time to join its one that I would greatly benefit from its such a shame my time here is only sporadic... I've had a read through and there has been some amazing work done ... congratulations folks the dream of this place being a workshop is realized in my mind ... Wesley you are a wonderful teacher you missed your calling, I think I said that before right ? lol hugs good to see you !!

I will come back when I can and try and wrap this ol' mind round it

love Jayne x

“The world is full of magic things, patiently waiting for our senses to grow sharper.” — W.B. Yeats

alidzain

Mon, 2015-03-09 13:34

Hi Jayne

Hope you are feeling better now, hun.

Alid

lonlyhrtsclub13

Mon, 2015-03-09 11:41

I am here but completely lost

and am not sure if I can catch up. I will try though. My life keeps getting in the damn way of things.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

wesley snow

Tue, 2015-03-10 14:05

There is no catching up.

You work at your own pace regardless of how the workshop moves. Whatever exercise you were on continue working it. Where were you?
Don't panic. The workshop will continue for as long as is necessary even if there is only one participant.
I am Director of the Mentor Program and I intend to act like it.
I repeat it again: if anyone is having extraordinary trouble with this, then PM me and we will work it out together.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

raj

Tue, 2015-03-10 14:07

Rula...My confusion continues

I tried to do a google to see if there is a simple explanation to see if a syllable is unstressed / unaccented or stressed / accented. Rather than finding a solution..it led to even more confusion...e.g. in the following example "in" is shown as both unaccented and accented....

indeterminate - IN de TERM in ATE

so i hope you can appreciate why I am finding it difficult to differentiate between the two..
at least I now know why there is no reliable guide to check if a syllable is unaccented or accented...

the google search also says that it also depends upon the "context" which further increases the degree of difficulty to be absolutely sure about a particular syllable being unaccented or accented....

besides if it has to do with "accent" the accents are very likely to change being subjective e.g. the "a" in "raj" can be pronounced by some as "a" in "far" or "a" in "fat"

you know what i mean? ;(

raj (sublime_ocean)

wesley snow

Tue, 2015-03-10 16:11

First of all

stressed and accented mean the same thing. It's just what you have learned. I use accented.
Second, you're overthinking this whole thing... like Stan said: slow down. You don't have to master it today. This is scheduled to be a long workshop moved slowly.
Third, you're scan of "indeterminate" was correct. What meter is it?
It is a catalectic trochaic trimeter.
Hang in there.
I'll be back.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

scribbler

Tue, 2015-03-10 23:08

Let's see.......

Stay! you hands don't move so quickly.
STAY you / HANDS don't / MOVE so / QUICKly

wesley snow

Thu, 2015-03-12 16:27

It's trochee,

but it feels forced. Sort of shoved into the meter, but I said I didn't care about anything but the meter and this is trochee. Time for a verse of dactyl. A falling meter. That should tell you enough, but I'll remind you it's one accented syllable followed by two unaccented syllables.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Rula

Tue, 2015-03-10 14:59

Dear Raj

I heard Wesley saying "don't panic", so I won't.
Look at the good side of it and how much we are gaining in a relatively short time.
Have you tried the trick of reading aloud?
I'm trying to develop it. It takes time, but who cares
it's all for fun and everything is gonna be OK :)

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Please follow me on Instagram https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

raj

Tue, 2015-03-10 15:20

Having one more shot at anapest

not sure if i hit the bullzeye :)

raj (sublime_ocean)

wesley snow

Tue, 2015-03-10 16:28

They worked.

It didn't make enough sense, but I said I didn't care. All I want is meter. A couple of spots are shaky:
being WHAT | i am ( I ) OUGHT | to be GOOD But of course that smucks with the meter. Life is hard and then we write poetry.
Go on to Part Two.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

raj

Tue, 2015-03-10 23:12

Wesley

are you saying I is stressed (accented)? makes me more confused ....

raj (sublime_ocean)

judyanne

Wed, 2015-03-11 12:54

i

can be stressed, or unstressed, depending on where in the sentence it is placed
Often at the beginning or end of a sentence it is stressed

But it can be stressed in the middle, if following or leading into vowel sounds
I know this is confusing, but read it aloud, and you can't help stressing that second 'I'

Note the first 'i' is not stressed - it follows a 't' sound, which makes the speaker use the tongue and lips to meet... all pronouns are naturally unstressed after that

love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

raj

Wed, 2015-03-11 13:25

Fresh attempts

anapest quadra meter:-
in the LONG | -ing of HEART | are the NOTES | of a SONG

iambic pentameter:-
a SONG | is SOOTH | -ing WHEN | two HEARTS | igNITE

not sure if i got one or two or all three right or one or two or all wrong

keeping my fingers X ed

raj (sublime_ocean)

judyanne

Wed, 2015-03-11 13:50

anapest quadra meter:- yes

anapest quadra meter:- yes
in the LONG | -ing of HEART | are the NOTES | of a SONG

xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

judyanne

Wed, 2015-03-11 13:53

Raj - good attempts

anapest tetrameter:- yes
in the LONG | -ing of HEART | are the NOTES | of a SONG

xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

raj

Wed, 2015-03-11 14:38

:( back in the doldrums

Judyanne I wish you could loan me or lend me your phonetic ears at least when I have a go at these monsters :)

raj (sublime_ocean)

judyanne

Wed, 2015-03-11 15:19

Don't be disheartened

You have iambic and anapaest under control, and in a very short time
just a small error in this submission of iambic - you know what it is, and can do it with practice

Forget trochee... for now... have you mixed iambic and anapaest yet?

If you have - sorry, so then... as for trochee - I find it the hardest of the four major beats, so don't be upset with yourself if you don't get it on your first few tries

Rome wasn't built in a day, and meter won't be mastered quickly - it takes practice
You have taken in a lot about feet, verses not lines, stanzas and meter in a very short time, and it shows in your poetry

Love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

wesley snow

Fri, 2015-03-13 15:50

Trochee.

It doesn't bother me, but dactyl makes my head hurt. It's the only one of the four I simply cannot "write" in (if you know what I mean). I have to piece it together like a puzzle.
So see Raj and Alid, we all have difficulties with the metric structures, just not necessarily the same.

Trochee
In the rubbish of the attic.

Accent the first syllable in your mind and the rest will follow.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

raj

Wed, 2015-03-11 15:12

Judyanne

LEND me | FOR a | WHILE the | STRINGS of | VIOlin
Is this a Trochaic pentameter?

then will STRUM | them to HEAR | the unSTRESSED | or the STRESSED| de ci BELS
is this anapest pentameter?

if I | keep HEAR| -ing THOSE | a THOU | a DAY
Is this iambic pentameter?

raj (sublime_ocean)

judyanne

Wed, 2015-03-11 15:27

cheers and wolf whistles

Well done Raj
only the last foot of anapaest is out - DEC - i -bels
and I read your 'I' in your iambic as unstressed - making that foot one of two unstressed syllables, which is called pyrrhic ... but someone may disagree with me because of the context
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

raj

Wed, 2015-03-11 15:43

Judyanne

thank you for all the trouble you have taken. I don't know what i need to do to convince everyone that these restrictive forms are not for me...i don't have an ear to figure out the accented and unaccented syllables...i really don't...all my attempts are like 1 step forward and 10 behind...

raj (sublime_ocean)

judyanne

Wed, 2015-03-11 15:55

whether you know it or not

it is coming from your subconscious
you already were naturally pretty good with rhythm before you started learning what it actually is

even though you think it is not, what you are learning is sinking in, as it is coming out very definitely in your poetry

xxx

raj

Thu, 2015-03-12 16:28

May be right, may be wrong

Like the summer rain rouses sweet aroma --Trochaic?
a pink blush does glow upon your rosy cheeks -- anapest?
what is felt in such a tiny measure -- Trochaic
is bliss not a dime or a dollar can bring -- anapest?
a passing cloud may not bear drops of rain - Iambic pentameter?
though a drop of dew often moisten most eyes -- anapest + trochaic ?

if not meter consider let go as free verse..

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

raj

Fri, 2015-03-13 12:18

Finally

everyone is tired of giving comments to my attempts....I don't blame them at all..because there comes a time when even the mentors and well wishers realize the truth...

it is pretty satisfying in a way that i tried and tried to the point that others gave up on me...so with due regards to all...i retire from this as well as any future WS...

raj (sublime_ocean)

judyanne

Fri, 2015-03-13 20:14

patience is a virtue Raj

You need to give people time to comment
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

wesley snow

Fri, 2015-03-13 16:41

No way I'm giving up.

If this were the Shark Pool I would circle you menacingly until you figured it out. Tough love.
In the Wading Pool I will beat you with a rubber ducky.

First verse begins trochee then you switch to I don't know what.

Iamb. The first three syllables make an iamb into a spondee (two stressed syllables together), the rest is essentially iamb. You could force an anapestic read, but that's what it would read like.

Third line is trochaic pentameter.

It IS anapest, but there is something different that mucks with the meter. It's not a bad thing. The line is Catalectic. This mean that one foot, either at the front or the rear, is minus part of it's full structure. An iamb begins without the unstressed syllable or a trochee absent its stressed syllable.
Your verse is missing the first unstressed syllable then the rest of the verse is anapest.

The next is iambic pentameter.

I will not comment on this verse. Do not combine trochee and anapest. They are each other's natural opposite and therefore work horribly together. This is why I separated the workshop in two. I wanted to teach the use of combining meter, but also which meter NOT to combine. Try it and you will get a poetic mess. The meters fight like cats and dogs.
Alright, I will critique the last line. It is a combination of iamb and anapest. Not very clear, but better than I feared.
I think you're getting the idea here. You're having way more success than failure. It's time to up your game. You've shown me trochee. Let's see dactyl. More than just dactyl, but "heroic" dactyl.
Dactylic Hexameter. The meter of the ancient poets like Homer, Virgil and more.
Dactyl is nothing more than the opposite of anapest. It is an accented syllable followed by two unaccented syllables.
Hexameter just means six. Six poetic feet per verse. That's only one longer than pentameter.
Just one verse will do.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

wesley snow

Thu, 2015-03-12 16:21

The best tool you have is your own instincts...

and your voice of course. Say the words out loud naturally. As though it were prose and you will hear where the accents truly lie. Then fix the poem accordingly.
For example: you could accent any one syllable in "indeterminate" and it would work. It's the context of the verse that will decide the accents.
There is no guide. That's why we have workshops. To work these things out.
What exercise are you on? Don't give up 'til the fat lady sings.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

raj

Thu, 2015-03-12 16:31

Wesley

all i can say is i am trying like i just did., even though I know my best may not be good enough, Period.

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

scribbler

Thu, 2015-03-12 16:58

Hi raj

Have you ever read a poem which had the right number of syllables per line, perfect rhyming and good word use but for some reason it just didn't seem right? (I know you have because you read a lot of my stuff). Likely what you were bothered with but didn't have a name for was a mixing of more than one of the wrong (uncomplimentary) meters. Avoiding doing this type writing on accident is what this shop is a lot about. So hang in there at least as long as I do because it gives me trouble too........stan

wesley snow

Thu, 2015-03-12 18:28

No, no

what was the last exercise you did? Are you on trochee?

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

scribbler

Thu, 2015-03-12 17:01

comic relief

which syllable is stressed in trictridecaphobia?

weirdelf

Thu, 2015-03-12 18:46

trictridecaphobia huh? OK, I'm in.

Trictridecaphobia foils my intent attempts
To replicate Hitchcock’s twenty first own film

Trictri/decapho/bia foils/ my intent/ attempts
iamb/anapaest/anapaest/anapaest/iamb/

To repl/icate Hitch/cock’s twen/ty first/ own film
iamb/anapaest/iamb/iamb/iamb (or possibly spondee)/

Mixed iambic and anapaestic pentameter. Just couldn't resist the challenge. And it actually makes sense if you define trictridecaphobia as the irrational fear of the number 39. [grins].

And here is what it sounds like

https://soundcloud.com/user536630132/trictridecaphobia

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

scribbler

Thu, 2015-03-12 21:34

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

alidzain

Fri, 2015-03-13 05:56

My try for dactyl

SING to the /DAWN for the/ QUEEN has re/TURNED to us!

Is this right?

Alid

judyanne

Fri, 2015-03-13 06:32

excellent

clapping
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

wesley snow

Fri, 2015-03-13 15:26

I also think excellent.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

alidzain

Fri, 2015-03-13 17:13

To Judy and Wes

Thank you. Couldn't have done it without your aid.

Alid

judyanne

Fri, 2015-03-13 06:55

mine

once in a while situations can change for societies benefit

dactyl hexameter

xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

wesley snow

Fri, 2015-03-13 15:29

The very meter of the ancients.

Homer, Virgil, Sappho, Ovid.
A very special meter and yours is excellent. Jess will be pleased you used polysyllabic words.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Rula

Fri, 2015-03-13 15:08

trochaic

Lilies sing and sway then words go silent

❤❤❤❤❤❤

but I HAVE done the tryout for dactyl and both you and Judy passed it!

SING to the /DAWN for the/ QUEEN has re/TURNED to us!

Alid

wesley snow

Fri, 2015-03-13 17:55

I have bad news.

That verse is anapest. It opens with two unstressed syllables followed by an accented syllable.
anapest.
Now think like a poet. Dactyl is the natural opposite of anapest. Where will that place the accent?
It's still a three syllable foot and known as a falling foot.
All these things point to dactyl being an accented syllable followed by two unaccented syllable.
Note that the first syllable in each trochee and dactyl are accented. This is why they work well together.
Please try again knowing what you know now.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

judyanne

Fri, 2015-03-13 20:12

Wes

You're confusing Alid
Sing to the dawn for the queen has returned to us ' .... is dactyl
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

wesley snow

Sat, 2015-03-14 16:23

My mind is oatmeal.

Alid, ignore me, my brain was elsewhere on another poem and I just rambled. My apologies.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

alidzain

Sat, 2015-03-14 22:00

No prob, Wes

with so many comments here, I can see how hard it is for you.

Alid

scribbler

Fri, 2015-03-13 19:12

I appreciate Everybody

in both this shop and others who have had so much patience with a stumbler like me. There may be a lot more to good poetry than exacting form and rhythm but without at least a bit of both the best we can hope to produce is poetic prose........stan

Rula

Sat, 2015-03-14 10:07

A link to the second page

Of the workshop.

https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/meter-our-friend?page=1#comment-119499

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Please follow me on Instagram https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Rula

Sat, 2015-03-14 10:13

sorry..duplicated

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Please follow me on Instagram https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Rula

Sat, 2015-03-14 10:12

echooooo

❤❤❤❤❤❤

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Rula

Sat, 2015-03-14 10:23

dactyl

Watching the buds of the Spring in their blooming emits a hope in the ominous

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judyanne

Sat, 2015-03-14 10:51

Rula

you have a trochee in the 5th foot, which turns you around to anapaest

xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

wesley snow

Sat, 2015-03-14 16:27

I don't see the anapest.

I do see the two trochee which screws up a perfect dactyl, but makes a nice entry to combination.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

judyanne

Sat, 2015-03-14 19:08

now it's me who's not concentrating

All dactyl, except 5th foot - only one trochee though - where do you see the second Wes
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

wesley snow

Sat, 2015-03-14 19:22

You're right.

Just one. A combination verse.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

wesley snow

Sat, 2015-03-14 19:24

I think the last

is dactyl also.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Rula

Sat, 2015-03-14 14:59

dactyl tetrameter

DANCE in the/ SHAows, the/ DEmons are /HIDing there

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Rula

Sun, 2015-03-15 13:19

is the above

verse approved?

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wesley snow

Sun, 2015-03-15 15:59

Yes.

Creepy.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
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author comment

Rula

Sat, 2015-03-14 14:50

I'd like to know

if these meters have special function.
In other words, what kind of writing each of these meters work better?

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wesley snow

Sat, 2015-03-14 16:42

Excellent question!

These are not all my ideas. Iamb seems most popular because it most reflects the rhythm of the natural human voice. English speaking people use it in poetry in larger amount because... it is easy.

Anapest has a softer sound and has traditionally been used in humorous or sentimental poetry. Anapest as iamb is made for love poems and other romance. Pastoral for instance.

Trochee has a harsher, more immediate sound and its pair, dactyl, have been the metric basis of not only the ancient epics from such as Homer, Virgil, and Sappho, but also epic adventure tales through the centuries.

So the meters have personalities. Remember that iamb and trochee don’t play well together.
When you write in dactyl be sure you write with some length in honor of the epics.
When you write your Ballade you will write in a metric scheme that matches the drama in your story.
Does that answer some of your questions?
.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

Rula

Sun, 2015-03-15 13:16

Thank you sir!

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Now where is everyone else? I think my workshop has died a natural death. That makes you the official die hard.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

Barbara Writes

Mon, 2015-03-16 11:48

Wonderful workshop

But I've ran to the hills. Sorry. i will though be back

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka.

Neopoet Community

Barbara Writes

Sun, 2015-03-15 19:06

I will be back

I'll join meters again anytime I did get anapest but I ran for the hill on this. Lol sorry((hugs))

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka.

Neopoet Community

weirdelf

Mon, 2015-03-16 03:18

A splurt for your perusal

poets worship drama, almost willing
poets/ worship/ drama/, almost/ willing [trochaic pentameter]

death to something lame or puerile, leading
death to/ something/ lame or/ puerile,/ leading [trochaic pentameter]

needlessly, tragically, virtually, truth is not withstanding,
needlessly,/ tragically,/ virtually,/ truth is/ not with/standing, [mixed trochaic and dactylic hexameter]

forces forcing a new refrain, it's easy, really.
forces/ forcing a/ new re/frain, it's/ easy,/ really. [mixed trochaic and dactylic hexameter]

This reminds me of an aspect of dactylic and trochaic not aforementioned, there is such a strong impulse to end a verse on a stressed/accented syllable there is a strong urge to enjambment in these forms.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

wesley snow

Mon, 2015-03-16 12:52

That last syllable has made me nuts.

I would write a trochaic line and couldn't figure out why it wasn't right with it staring me in the face.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

scribbler

Tue, 2015-03-17 08:57

Why not stop

beating around the bush and let us try combining 2 complimentary meters in a short poem?

judyanne

Mon, 2015-03-16 22:44

lol - can't help myself

Do you want to combine myers and target Stan?
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

scribbler

Tue, 2015-03-17 08:59

You don't know what meyers are???

They are a special type meter which describes my usual rhythm. MessY +metER = meyers.

judyanne

Tue, 2015-03-17 09:30

lol

You cheated and changed myers

Still laughing
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

wesley snow

Tue, 2015-03-17 11:54

For gosh sake,

go for it. I'll announce it.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Sparrow

Tue, 2015-03-17 11:48

Dactyl attempt 2

Murmuring deepening water will fall then disappear,
Lost in the mountains own deepening vistas now beckoning

Yours Ian.

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

Rula

Tue, 2015-03-17 10:43

Almost there Ian

murmuring/, deep waters/ meander from/ my view.

Lost in the/ mountains of/ beautiful /vistas now

The first line.... feet No. 1 only is dactyl

2nd line, 1, 2 and 3 are dactyl

A good attempt.

Feel free to give more. :)

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Sparrow

Tue, 2015-03-17 11:51

Rula

thought I would try the hard ones first, then the rest should be easy, I have now changed the two liner I hope it is better as I have now gone over to penty something lol,
Take care young lady and know we think of you, Yours Ian

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

Rula

Tue, 2015-03-17 13:26

Murmuring /deepening/ water

Murmuring /deepening/ water will /fall then dis/appear... the last foot is iamb

Lost in the / mountains own /deepening /vistas now /beckoning... the second foot messed a little.

but all in all, a very good attempt.

Now it would be really great to see your attempts in a full poem.

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wesley snow

Tue, 2015-03-17 12:03

Stan has made a request.

He would like us to have the opportunity to write a poem with two complimentary meters and post it on the Stream to demonstrate what we have learned (I know I have).
Let's limit the poem to four quatrains (four verses per stanza). Remember that complementary means: iamb and anapest or trochee and dactyl. Don't try mixing them all or say, iamb and trochee, you'll just make a mess.
Everyone still hanging in this workshop let's see what you've got now. Clean meter, appropriate combinations.
Post them just like a poem to the Stream with Meter next to the title.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

raj

Tue, 2015-03-17 13:47

Just for fun

It's easy/ it's pleasing/watching Li/lacs in teens
Swaying in / wilderness/ dancing on/slender feet

raj (sublime_ocean)

Rula

Wed, 2015-03-18 01:33

Well Done!

It's ea/sy it's pleas/ing watch/ing Li/lacs in teens ( a mix of anapest and iamb)

Swaying in / wilderness/ dancing on/slender /feet ( a mix of dactyl and trochic with a half a foot less by the end of verse two.)

Well done raj!

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raj

Wed, 2015-03-18 13:44

query

how long is a foot in each of the meters discussed thus far (in terms of syllable counts)

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

wesley snow

Wed, 2015-03-18 15:50

It depends on which mode you are using.

You can answer this yourself by now.
Iamb has two syllables, anapest has three. That's the maximum in modern poetry.
Don't sweat syllable counts. Count poetic feet. If a line has five iambic feet, what does that make the metric structure?
It is "pentameter" (penta is Greek for five).
All of these have been put down in lists by Rula and Judyanne earlier on. Seek them out. If you can't answer your questions with those lists then come back and talk to me some more.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Rula

Wed, 2015-03-18 15:56

the length of each feet in

the length of each feet in terms of syllable count

(iamb) two syllables unstressed STRESSED e.g / he LIVES/
(anapest) three syllables unstressed unstressed STRESSED / I be-LIEVE /
(trochee) two syllables STRESSED unstressed /TER-ror/
(dactyl) three syllables STRESSED unstressed unstressed / LI-mit-less/

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wesley snow

Tue, 2015-03-17 16:36

I'm anxious to go to submissions and see what's there.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

raj

Wed, 2015-03-18 14:05

Sharing a few song lines i

Sharing a few song lines i had written to know if they follow a particular meter or would be categorized as free verse. (Verses belong to different songs?-

If you wish I sing for you, you never have to look so far
feel me humming in your ear, hear me whisper in your heart

Waiting on the beach, i keep pining for your heart
searching for your eyes, my sweet heart
soon you will come flowing in my arms
with a twinkle in your eyes like the stars

Tall as the trees and green as grass

In our garden let the jasmines spread your fragrance all the while
may the tulips dew and luster through each dawn, through each morn
lavendars do love to mingle with fragrance of jasmine
dahlias too love to dangle, in all hues, in all blues

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

wesley snow

Wed, 2015-03-18 15:52

Yep.

Verso Libre.
There is very little that I would call a consistent meter, but put to music all meter is different.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

raj

Thu, 2015-03-19 14:41

How about these?

her almond / eyes instant / -ly engrossed / me in depths / of her charm [anapest pentameter]
magic / factor / within / is beyond / her eyelids [ trochaic - anapest]
the myth / will never / be resolved / until dreams / of her form [anapest pentameter]
stop se / -ducing / and she / is my bride / me her groom [trochaic - anapest]

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

Rula

Thu, 2015-03-19 14:57

Raj

the first line is a mix of both iamb and anapest , which is good
line 2... Remember, don't mix trochaic and anapest
Line 3 ... I read as iamb mostly except "until (the) dreams... "and of her form" (anapest)

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raj

Thu, 2015-03-19 14:59

Rula

Thanks for the time and your honest comment. So the story of my failure continues with these strict forms...

Regards & thanks,

raj (sublime_ocean)

Rula

Thu, 2015-03-19 15:03

Oh raj

please don't be over disheartened.
Keep it for the fun side of your life or quit it forever.

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raj

Thu, 2015-03-19 15:20

Never mind Rula

Please note that I have appreciated your honest comment which is valuable.

The positive side of these failures continuum is that good folks here would realize my limitations and will appreciate why I opt out of Workshops and contests.

Moreover, as a way out, even though I keep trying out various forms, I am now careful not to mention which form this poem is about. For me whatever I write is free [freedom of mind] form

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

Rula

Thu, 2015-03-19 15:35

I started to believe

that there are people who are more comfortable with iamb and anapest while others with trochaic and dactyl. I heard someone saying it's like being right handed and left-handed people.
On my submission yesterday, I attempted trochee and dactyl, but the result was horrible, so I changed to anapest and iamb. Still not sure if it works any better with sir Wesley.

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raj

Thu, 2015-03-19 15:40

If i feel suffocated, I am

If i feel suffocated, I am considering migrating to another site for a while, till i regin my self confidence which presently is at a very low ebb...

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

scribbler

Thu, 2015-03-19 16:10

now raj

there is no need to migrate. You are a very good poet who is trying to become better by stepping outside your comfort zone. And any time anybody leaves their comfort zone there will be mistakes made but they will be off set by increased skills. If you do anything, why not take a break from shops. I Know they can become a grind. Missing one or two while letting your muse run free won't hurt and it's pretty likely any shop you miss will be repeated at a later date...........stan

alidzain

Thu, 2015-03-19 16:27

Raj

hold on. Maybe you just need a few more practice to get it right.

Alid

alidzain

Thu, 2015-03-19 16:21

Salam, Rula

I posted another one with dactyl and trochee combo entited "Quest". Tel me what you think.

Alid

wesley snow

Thu, 2015-03-19 17:19

Raj,

Don't overthink this. Stan was right and after all... it's only poetry.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

raj

Fri, 2015-03-20 15:18

My Story

someone here once said to me
Hey come! meter is our friend
I tried so hard to get her nod
but she refused to befriend me

in hushed tones I asked some dear friends
what's the trick to please Ms. Meter
I tried to match every code of conduct
but she refused to even look my way

so i paused for a while to follow the signs
which perhaps could lead me to her domain
I thought I did find a way to her den
but she snarled at me when i did get there

so for now i thought i would duck
each time she happened my way
may be for now i must lie low
and hope for that moment of luck..

So for now I bid her adieu
wishing best for all her friends
sooner or later, I hope to be
one amongst a lot of them

raj (sublime_ocean)

wesley snow

Fri, 2015-03-20 15:48

And after such an exemplary farewell...

let's end this adventure and move on to new ones.
Thank you to everyone who struggled with us. I have good news though... expect this workshop on a regular basis. I said everyone will understand and you will... if it takes me years.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Rula

Fri, 2015-03-20 17:00

Thank you sir

It was an adventure, but I always felt safe knowing you are the leader.

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