About workshops

Workshops on Neopoet are groups that meet for a certain period of time to focus on a certain aspect of poetry. Each workshop participant is asked to critique all the other poems submitted into a workshop. A workshop leader helps coordinate -- they set the agenda, give participants feedback on whether their submissions and critique are at they level expected of them, and after the workshop is over, give feedback to participants. 

To join a workshop, first find one that is of interest to you. Once you have found the right workshop (and verified that it is open -- you can find this out in the description below), you can apply to join the workshop.


Join the Neopoet online poetry workshop and community to improve as a writer, meet fellow poets, and showcase your work. Sign up, submit your poetry, and get started.

Meter Is Our Friend

Status: 
Program description/goal: 

Description: A workshop concerning the fundamentals of poetic meter.

Leader: Wesley Snow
Moderator(s): Rula, Judyanne

Objectives: For those who have found meter difficult in the past, this workshop will be a comprehensive attempt at solving the difficulty once and for all.

Level of expertise: Open to all

Subject matter: Poetic meter and its application.

Length: 
30 days
Number of participants (limit): 
15 people
Skill level: 
Date: 
Tuesday, March 3, 2015 to Friday, April 3, 2015
Short description: 
Participants will be asked to work with a number of exercises including writing verses in meterical arrangement.

Comments

Twelve inches one foot (Four inches one Hand)
Three feet one yard
Five and one half yards one rod, pole or perch
Five rods one chain (A cricket pitch)
Ten chains one furlong
Eight furlongs one mile,
One mile Equals 1760 Yards,
Where the hell are these meter things LOL,
I will be so interested to find out what they are,
Yours, Ian

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

this is the kind of thing that made me despair on meter workshops.
You at least weren't as bad as Anna and Ephraim, Ian. They were positively aggressive to the whole concept.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

I is just putting a smile on a difficult subject matter.
You also know I am bad at meter and always have a jab at it.
But I hereby promise to be a good boy for the rest of the Workshop which will start on 3rd March which is two weeks time.
You take care out there, I found a sense of humour box on "E" bay the other day but they wanted a life of experience for it so I passed.
Take care Yours, Ian (Still loves yu!!)

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

I know you can do it, just take this one seriously.
I trust your abilities more than you do.
Do try to make some test recordings on www.vocaroo.com, for fun at first, then and post them with your meter exercises.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

I still remember the Corner shop we wrote for meter in the workshop you ran, it was great and when Wesley's workshop starts I will be serious,
Meter teaches poets the correct poetic form
Each offering lends our phraseology a pathway
Teach my keys to flow in sequential freeways
Let the teacher teach me and let me listen

Yours as always Ian (Loves Yu)

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

As requested by Raj. I am herein accumulating in one thread what has been so far discussed and covered to be refered to easily. For details, please detect through the thread.

1-Rhythm vs. Meter

**Rhythm is the flow of the poem. It is how it gets from point A to point B and beyond. It is the sound of the poem. It is the music of the poem.

**Meter is a way by which we may DESCRIBE the rhythm of the poem.

2-Quantitative vs. Qualitative

**Quantitative is the meter of the ancient world. In this type of meter stresses are irrelevant. What varies the verse is the use of long and short vowel sounds.

**Qualitative is the meter of the modern era (beginning with the Renaissance) characterized by stressed syllables coming at regular intervals

3- The verse = one line in poetry

4- Types of meter depending on the Numbers of feet in one verse

* Unimeter is one foot for the verse.
* Bimeter is two feet for the verse.
* Trimeter is three feet for the verse.
* Tetrameter is four feet for the verse.
* Pentameter is five feet for the verse .
*Hexameter is six feet for the verse.

5-Types of meters so far discussed
*iambic (unstressed STRESSED
** anapest (unstressed unstressed STRESSED)

the length of each feet in terms of syllables

(iamb) two syllables unstressed STRESSED e.g / he LIVES/
(anapest) three syllables unstressed unstressed STRESSED / I be-LIEVE /
(trochee) two syllables STRESSED unstressed /TER-ror/
(dactyl) three syllables STRESSED unstressed unstressed / LI-mit-less/

to be updated accordingly

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Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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Move it to the end please and I think I will use it as a springboard into Part Two.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Good to know my suggestion was found to be useful.

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

I think you missed out to list Trochaic

raj (sublime_ocean)

Trochaic and dactyl will be part two of this workshop.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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Can I join

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

A while since I have tried meter. When does this start

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

aren't we dear judy?

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
www.instgram.com/rularules1

Participants will be asked to work with a number of exerceses including writing verses in meterical arrangement.

Will we be doing exerceses in spelling too?
:}
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

I don't care how anyone spells anything, but you watch me... I won't be able to help myself... I will correct bad spelling. It's a curse.
You are my moderator, so you have a certain amount of leeway on what you teach. Moderators should follow the leader's... um, lead, but if you don't add your own thoughts and perspectives then what good are you to have around.
Scan your face off and correct anything you find out of kilter.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

As Leader I will be uber focused on the subject at hand, but moderators have a little more leeway. It's a little like being a poet critiquing, but with authority. This is the Wading Pool, so I'm cutting major slack, but if we have typos and misspellings you need to call them on it.
I hate (I'm not kidding... I really hate) missing something in my proofread. It gives me the hives.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

All those super sonnet poets are going to join in and talk metric .
I shall get out my yard stick and wait till they make a mistake and beat hell out of them lol.
Oh, I do have a yard stick here, it was used for dress making when they measured the material..
Have a lovely day out there and great to see you all here meterically speaking, (New Word)
Yours, Ian..

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

Friendly
Meter
Poetry
Stanzas
Correct way is with Friendly Meter
When writing a good Poetry Stanza..

I know the damn words don't rhyme but it a damn good banner for this workshop lol that's why I called it a new Tyburn, back to the word board, the silly bulls is fine..
Love you all yours, Ian

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

This is a Sparrow's Tyburn. :)

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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Yes this is a new type of form a "Sparrows Tyburn"
The words don't have to rhyme but have to be incorporated in the last two lines of 9 silly bulls.
Love to all I suppose I will have to get serious when the workshop starts ???
Yours as always, Ian

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

can I join?

Alid

I have studied meter and tried incredibly frustratingly to teach it in workshops. I wish you three all the best and will support all I can.
Plus I need the practice. That sonnet was harder than I thought it would be. Meter is not riding a bicycle, it needs constant practice and is, I think, the single most important and neglected aspect of poetic craft. It shits on rhyme for prosodic value.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

needs this shop, judging by my trouble with sonnets, I do. So should I bow out and continue in ignorance, declare that the U.S. never went metric so how does this affect me, or join in and at least TRY to get better?.....???? ..........................................long periods of intense indecision............................................Aw heck, why not? Count me in. If nothing else i can improve people's lung capacity by laughing at me lol.

Khalid
Jess and Stan

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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I guess that I could use some increase in my lung capacity, so I will join just so I can laugh at Stan!
Maybe Killer will come too, he needs the practice.
Thanks for inviting me, ~ Gee

Comments and critique are a vital part of our community!
Critique or comment today!

.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

everyone should have it.
After a great deal of detailed discussion, the first exercise (see Judyanne? Me spel good) will be two verses of iambic pentameter. They need not rhyme. They need not make sense. Only the meter is important.
All will be explained before the exercise, but this gives you a head's up.

And since I have you: a "line" of poetry is a verse. "Verse" will be the term we use in this workshop, please.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

The workshop begins on the third, but I will start tomorrow.
I have a few subjects to broach before we commence.
Welcome to all who dare.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Could we, as a community, inform some of our new poets and those of us having senior moments...
Where was I?
... that they need to leave a comment here to receive updates?

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Ready to tackle my old enemy meter

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Purchased a new meter stick to replace my yard stick so now I have the correct stick with which to beat myself when I mess up.......stan

I may need to borrow that stick as you know how meter and I get along

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

I'll not lend you that stick. Such is reserved for hard edged men like me lol. But in the event you Do need to beat yourself up, I'd be glad to lend a turkey feather instead.......stan

Thank you for having mercy on a meterless soul. I am sure Wesley will get out the appropriate beating stick when I go astray, LOL. I will tell him to see you for the feather first. :)

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

There I have now carried out the task that Wesley asked fro if you have forgotten already he said Leave "A Comment" this I hope is directed at the new poets we have many of.
Now Stan, where did you get that new stick??
I have searched high and low even went on "E" bay to see if they had any but none.
I received the Arrow head in the post yesterday thank you, I have now reconstructed the whole thing and restrung my long bow to test it.
It would have been another story had the North American Indians had our long bow, it would have been the "United States of Apacheland"
Have a lovely weekend, I am off hunting grizzlies,
Yours Ian.. lol

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

I'm pleased you received that prize for having participated in the test contest which has led to having official contests.
As to the meter stick you have overlooked the obvious hiding place. They are usually on the back side of the yard stick lol.

I see you have one of those modern gadgets.
I have the real Ma-coy on the reverse it is inches but the other way, we is clever as you can put this stick down either way and it reads the same "Inches to the Yard ,lol its a - "Rabone Rule" wooden yardstick with brass ends made in Birmingham. many were made by prisoners in the USA - Wooden Yardstick Made in Michigan State Prison Industries..
Have a great day, Yours Ian

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

In the meantime I have some information to pass along that will aid us in discussing basic meter.

The first is Prosody.

Prosody (from the Greek) in linguistics is the rhythm, stress and intonation of speech.
The term is also used to describe the study of poetry and is related to the natural rhythm of prose as well, though not as commonly used in such a way).

To begin the study we must first understand “accentual-syllabic” verse which is a form of qualitative poetry. Accentual-syllabic verse describes the most common form of poetry written in English for at least a thousand years.
It places limits on both the stresses and syllables within a verse or stanza, usually requiring an even rhythm (we’ll talk about rhythm later).

Therefore we can create an unstress/stress unit (which we will call a foot), repeat it through the verse five times and we have iambic pentameter.

Accentual-syllabic verse.

We will return to this last later in more detail.
Until next time,
Rula gave us cool tips, but I’m dull, so I will give weird facts.

Fact number one: Iamb and anapest are known as rising meters as they rise from an unstressed syllable to a stressed. Dactyl and trochee are falling meters.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

It is quite confusing and stressful to scroll up and down while searching specific examples provided by the WS Head and Moderators as one progresses through the WS. To make it easier, it would be good that right at the top of the stream each type of Meter is uploaded with an example. In other words, there should be a progressive summary in one place.

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

may I suggest we adopt a standard form for parsing? Which can be hard boring work, a chore, unless we use tricks to make it easier.  It can be done in several ways.
Take this line of Iambic pentameter-
Shall I compare thee to a summers day?
we can parse with caps
Shall I | comPARE | thee TO | a SUMM | ers DAY?
this is really easily done in MS Word, you select the syllable and press Shift/F3, automatic caps! No retyping!
Or Bold the stressed syllables
Shall I/ compare/ thee to/ a summ/ers day?

This can be done in Word or even here in Neopoet if you choose Advanced formatting. Simply select the syllable and press Ctrl/B. Again no retyping.

Note that I have used / and | to separate feet. Either works, / is easier and requires less disruptive extra spacing, just choose a standard.

Hope this helps. It certainly helps me (I prefer the Bold and /), either way they require no typing. Just copy and paste the line then add spacers then formatting.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

That's how I'm already doing it
With capitals
I'll use bold if everyone prefers
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

using Shift/F3 or Ctrl/B. The dividers concern me more. I feel that / disrupts the reading of the poem less than | which must have a space each side of it.

It's not just about making the meter clear, the form that allows the poem to be still readable is a factor. That's why I prefer Bold/ over CAPS |

I will conform to the consensus, of course, consistency being helpful to the poet whose work is being parsed.

 

 

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

The 'change case' utensil, it's just as easy
but happy to do bold
And I do use the bar you prefer
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Using caps is easier for tech challenged folks like me

which allows errors as we have seen, Ctrl/b is exactly as easy as Shift/F3 or the caps tool.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

lazer transit is easier to use measuring distances than dragging survey rods too, but not if you don't know how to use it

Not usually my field the Parsing and Bold work, but have followed your instructions and it's great.
This is one thing that all poets should have, another thing to go on your new Neopoet information, tell them not to post to stream before doing this as it is a "Word" thing,
Yours Ian

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

much of his touted philanthropy was given to countries where Microsoft was about to launch.

My point? MS products are actually pretty good these days. It is so easy to learn keyboard shortcuts and useful tools, it is not like trying to learn Japanese when you are over 40 and your brain is not producing much acetylcholine, the neurotransmitter largely associated with learning, it is really easy. Click and drag to select, Ctrl/c to copy, Ctrl/x to cut to memory (very useful when editing), Ctrl/v to paste, Shift/F3 to convert to caps, Ctrl/b to make Bold.

No need for tech requirements, Ian, it is that fucking simple.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

Let's see which one sir Wesley prefers. I'd follow.
Thank you.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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BETTER use caps or I'll beat Him with a meter stick lol

simply because we have more who can use them. Fewer are truly familiar with Advanced Formatting (sad that, actually). I like the slant / because I know where it is.
Is that good for everyone?

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

your model what ever it is sir.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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question. Define meter. Is it the number of words or the syllable counts?

Alid

As best as i can muster two syllable is one foot. In case of iambic pentameter five two syllables with an unstressed - stressed sequence make an iambic pentameter

raj (sublime_ocean)

to start with, I'd say it is both the number and the order of the stressed/ unstressed syllables in a foot.  what makes the meter and makes one meter different from another.

I am sure Wesley is going to add. Examples show better.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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I think I got it.

Alid

We don't begin until the third which brings me to lesson two of what we will study. Don't panic. This is just me mouthing off before we start. Alid, all your questions will be answered.

Quantitative vs. Qualitative.

It sounds worse than it is.

Quantitative is the meter of the ancient world. In this type of meter stresses are irrelevant. What varies the verse is the use of long and short vowel sounds (note I said “sounds” and not merely “vowel”. All consonants utilize a vowel sound), where a long vowel physically takes longer to say than a short vowel. “O” is a long vowel sound that is naturally stretched. “I” even with its diphthong is short. This is actually a very difficult way to write in English as it is not as “syllabic” as other of the Romance languages such as Ancient Greek or Latin. Also include in that list Italian, French and Spanish. They all use syllables in a “longer” way than English.

Qualitative is the meter of the modern era (beginning with the Renaissance) characterized by stressed syllables coming at regular intervals.

This will be the subject of Meter is your Friend Part One.

Stupid fact 2: Can you say Gilgamesh? It’s the oldest surviving poem in man’s possession.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

There is a contradiction in terms when one says " it seems we always make changes in flow to sacrifice for meter. "
Correct meter IS flow.
This will become more clear in this workshop. When we learn to use meter, well, the learning process is often painful, whatever the subject. It will seem like many sacrifices of meaning, content, rhyme etc are made whilst learning the craft of meter. Then you can fuck with it. It's that old cliche "learn the rules in order to break them". Few of the really great form poets adhere strictly to meter because they know when they can break it without disrupting flow.

It goes so against the anarchistic grain of the poetic sensibility to learn "rules", true. Great sculptors must know when a piece is too structurally imbalanced to stand without breaking. Great musicians must know which succession of notes will create a pleasing effect in order to be able to create dissonant successions that won't make the listeners stick pencils in their ears.

Poetry is not a direct connection from brain to paper/screen. Skill, craft and knowledge allow that connection.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

Good commentary.
Everyone listening I hope?

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

all is new re terminology.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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What is rhythm?
Rhythm is the way sound moves against the flow of time.

Rhythm is the flow of the poem. It is how it gets from point A to point B and beyond. It is the sound of the poem. It is the music of the poem.
All writing has rhythm whether good or bad.

Rhythm is not meter.

What then is meter? Meter is a way by which we may DESCRIBE the rhythm of the poem. If we can analyze a poem’s pieces we can determine what is working and what is not and most importantly: why.

Imagine Meter as the scaffolding surrounding a poem of pure Rhythm. The Meter will not remain. It will do its job giving the rhythm recognizable order. It will aid in the beauty of the architecture. It will limit useless tangent by confining language thereby creating “brevity” (one of a poet’s best tools).

Then it will go away.

That is the meter we will talk about in this workshop.

Last stupid fact: Cento (from the Latin for “patchwork”) is any collaborative poem. A poem written by multiple authors.

We've been talking for a while. Let us turn to a single subject for a moment.
What is meter (besides being hard) to you?
Tomorrow we will begin with the single, poetic verse.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

we need/ to see,/ we need/ to hear/ and smell.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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I LOOKED aBOVE and LOOKED aROUND
a MIGHty God i THERE have FOUND

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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I can be right so easy in da dum

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

when we are talking about a verse, it is the number of stressed or accented syllables and their order in that verse.
When we are talking about a stanza, the meter is determined by the length kind and the length of the lines

How far am I?

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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Write a verse of Iambic Pentameter and post it here. After my opening comments we will use it as our first example.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

From what you have explained, my perception of Rhythm and Meter could be similar to
Rhythm - A Charming Lady
Meter - A Graceful Lady

Are these similes right, near right or wrong?

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

Meter is a shrew.
Since everyone is already ahead of me I might as well go on.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I want to start by guaranteeing that it is indeed your friend. It is not here to limit your writing, but rather to liberate it by allowing understanding of how a poem works- any poem, from the most complex ballade or epopee to subtle verso libre. Meter is there. It is not something we put in a poem. It is already there DESCRIBING what is happening in the poem… good or bad.

Understand meter and you understand nearly half of what poetry is about.

First assignment.
This is being given immediately not that you should start, but rather to give you something to think about as we discuss metrical form. Know that this is Part One of this workshop and in it we will discuss only iamb and anapest. Later, we will attempt to use them together as they commonly are.

Your first assignment will be to write a single verse (not line… verse) of iamb. It’s “meter” will be determined later.
Tomorrow I will discuss what that is from the beginning.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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author comment

The best is yet to come,is what is said

Query
I am yet to figure out if it is " iambic" or "lambic"

raj (sublime_ocean)

Now do it again.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
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author comment

the BEST is YET to COME, is WHAT is SAID - verse1
the WORST will PASS as LONG as YOU beLIEVE - verse 2

does that work?
i think here, after verse 2 i may have lost in rhythm if it is read with verse 1....is that so?

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

Way to go.
Wait patiently for the next exercise and help everyone else.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
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author comment

Since Raj has clearly got it, the next attempt should include polysyllabic words. That's where it gets really tricky.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

Meter is the thing you notice when a poem's rhythm is off. It's like a bubble level. Once a wall is built, it's forgotten unless the wall visibly leans.

To move onward, one must embrace wisdom.

Alid

Here is my reading, can you hear the stressed syllables?
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0ic8eojgPsi
Perhaps using vocaroo.com or soundcloud? They are very easy to use if you just have a microphone, a mike built in to your laptop, or a mike/headset.
I agree with Wesley on the parsing of that verse, though I would love to hear it as you would naturally say it.
There is a significant difference in natural syllable stress not just between English, American and Aussie english speakers, but also within America, those goddam jonny rebs (Southerners) speak with a French influence, though they would never admit it.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

but the headset is now spoilt and I'm saving what little cash I can spare to get a new one.

Alid

I am bringing more and more live sound to our craft.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

Here's my scan and listen (say it out loud) to where you have stressed it for iamb.

to MOVE / on-WARD / one MUST / em-BRACE / wis-DOM

Many of these words are not pronounced you way you require them to if you are writing in iamb.
"onward" is pronounced with the first syllable accented. Same with "wisdom".
Think (and you'll hear this a lot) da-DUM, da-DUM, da-DUM.
What do you think your meter is?

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
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author comment

Actually two.
"I want the best for all the poets here."

And

"When I have fears that I may cease to be
before my pen has gleaned my teeming brain,
fore high piled books in charac'try
hold like rich garners the full ripened grain...

Questions?
They should be about the last verse of the Keat's piece.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
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author comment

"hold like rich garners the full ripened grain"

is it really iamb?!

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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No one else mentioned it. How do you think it scans? It has everything to do with exercise three (which I haven't officially announced yet).

"hold LIKE / rich GAR- / ners the FULL / ripened GRAIN."

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
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author comment

that parsing is going to revolutionize everything I know about the stressed/ unstressed syllables.
I think we can't take one verse alone, but should read it in the context.

Maybe that makes the difference?

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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One verse of iambic, the meter is the poet's choice.
Unimeter is one foot for the verse (we can do better than that).
Bimeter is two feet for the verse (still, let's go further).
Trimeter is three feet for the verse (tolerable, but let's do more).
Tetrameter is four feet for the verse (perfectly acceptable).
Pentameter is five feet for the verse (most common).
Hexameter is six feet for the verse (and as far as we will go).
Choose your meter and submit a verse for critique.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
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author comment

"Let the teacher teaching make us listen."

With a Sparrows Love

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

One verse iambic whatever meter. Try tetrameter. See above for explanation.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

The whole write there was a try at meter, penty or more, thought it would bring a smile to you.
Just to be sure I looked up "Verse" it appears that they have changed the meaning of the word Verse since I was young.
To me a verse is the same as a stanza, consisting of a number of lines, all biblical verses are more than one line, but that is why we are now old fashioned, wonder when it changed ????
I shall correct my input to conform with the task ..
Yours Ian

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

Wesley and I may never agree on this but he is the boss here. I think line is more descriptive and useful especially considering the correct use of verse causes confusion. In this case I think clear and effective communication beats technical correctness.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

I had forgotten about the one line as a verse.
Don't forget my memory is bad on these things.
Always remember quoting chapter and verse as a standard saying, now you can see how old I is, lol
Have a good night out there young Jess,
Yours, Ian and the Children

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

LET the | TEACH -er | TEACH -ing | MAKE us | LIST -en
It is pentameter, but not iambic
This 'DUM ta' beat is called trochee
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

from the example of Trochee provided by Judyanne, would it be right to say that a Trochee follows the opposite sequence of vowels w.r.t iamb? i.e., STRESSED -unstressed instead of unstressed - STRESSED?

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

trochee is the opposite of iamb. We will talk about trochee in part two. For now, if you're ready, think about anapest.
I will describe it shortly after we've seen more examples of iamb.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

Fancy me putting it inside out Dum Dum, I have had another go, Da Dum..
Line/Verse 1
"I let the teacher teach a lesson true"
Line/Verse 2
"I usually chat the lesson through"

Oh please tell me I have reversed the thing to conform to the lesson,
Loves Yu, yours, Ian..

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

Carry on to anapest. The instructions are on one of those big Wesley talking things. If you have questions... ask.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

Your first accent is the first syllable in the verse and the line follows on in trochee.
Remember that iamb will have the first syllable unaccented then follow suit.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

I came upon a house today

Iambic tetrameter I think...........stan

Stan
it's iamb tertameter.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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Now do it again.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

I want to touch the earth
In ways it's never been
I want you to remember me
It won't be long until I'm gone

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

We asked for one verse only.

Your first verse is good.
I WANT/ to TOUCH/ the EARTH

are you aware of its name?

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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Got carried away...assignment fail. ..is my line iambic pentameter

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

It is iambic trimeter
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

The difference??? I am totally dumb when it comes to meter. I am just glad I got it right :)

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

iambic trimeter = 3 feet de DUM/ de DUM / de DUM /
iambic tetrameter = 4 feet de DUM/ de DUM / de DUM / de DUM
iambic pentameter = 5 feet de DUM/ de DUM / de DUM / de DUM / de DUM

Can you do one more dear Carrie?

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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I want to touch the earth alone
In ways it's never been before
I want you to remember me this way
It won't be long until I'm gone for good

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

stop fighting the  most important aspect of all poetry.
When you learn meter you will never look back. I promise.
I want to touch the earth alone
In ways it's never been before
I want you to remember me this way
It won't be long until I'm gone for good

These are the stessed syllables as I read them. You see if they make a pattern of feet.

 

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

explain pattern of feet to me again...I seem to be stuck on trying to get the sound right.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

to record your own voice and listen to it. You will hear meter or lack of it.
As I've said before, poets are anarchistic by nature and hate structured learning, but if you hear your own voice saying words with "flow" you will realise it is meter.
I can be a patronising arsehole, but please trust me on this.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

Perfect iamb.
Now figure this out. Think like a poet. I have given you the answer earlier in this thread when I listed all the meters.
What are the meters that you use? I'll start: Your first line is Trimeter, so the verse is iambic trimeter.
What are the other meters?

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
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author comment

The night is young and full of life

Iambic Tetrameter.

Alid

iambic tetrameter.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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Error

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Now do it again. I would like two successful verses (not necessarily at the same time, they don't even have to make sense as long as the meter is right).
I'm asking everyone, so I'm not singling you out: What is the "meter"? How long is the verse?
Is it Unimeter or Hexameter or something in between? I gave you the answer earlier in the thread.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

iambic damn pentameter is not so hard to do
oh oops, it seems I’ve added here an extra foot or two

- iambic heptameter
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

are easy, or should be if you can count to two,
using polysyllabic words in the form is more challenging.
My reading
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1Hn1wNLjlEe

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

and left behind its mossy bones

another iambic tetrameter with one polysyllabic word dived into 2 separate feet.....i think

and LEFT / beHIND / its MOSS /y BONES

Am I cheating by using lines from a poem I already wrote?

I don't care where it comes from as long as you recognize the meter. You are absolutely correct.
You are cleared for exercise two. A verse of anapest please. The explanation is further down (I believe... one of those big Wesley talking things).
And later... if no one else does... ask me why iamb and anapest and not iamb and its opposite trochee.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
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author comment

I'll leave that for tomorrow........stan

what you call your length I won't ask you. The meter is flawless as I would expect from my highly paid moderator (talk to Andrew about your check).
Alexandrine is six, what poetic form uses seven? That's a real question. Any ideas?

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
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author comment

It's heptameter

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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Narrative
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

is very like using genus and species to describe an animal. In poetry the first word refers to how syllables are stressed and the second tells how many feet. Iambic= second syllable stresses ; pentameter = 5 feet, tetra=4 feet, tri=3 feet and so one.
I suspect there's such thing as decameter in poetry but I don't think I've ever read any.......stan

de DUM
an iambic foot = / unstressed STRESSED / = a foot >>>>> disMAY

DUM de
a trochaic foot = / STRESSED unstressed / = a foot >>>>> EAsy

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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But don't get ahead of yourself. Trochee is for Part Two. Part One is only iamb and anapest.

Which brings me to this: we're still missing a lot of go's at this. It's only one verse of iamb. You choose the length.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
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author comment

A catastrophe's hitting everyday herein

a CATA/stRO/phe's HIT/ting EV/ryDAY/ hereIN/ (iambic hexameter)

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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A ca TA / strophe's HIT / ting E / very DAY / hereIN

I have a problem with the meter as you can see. The first two feet are anapest and the rest are iamb.
Here's the trick though... exercise three will be using anapest and iamb together.
You're just ahead of the curve, but the verse is not strictly iamb.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

but it's seldom used in English because it's not even. Probably used freely in verso libre. Otherwise, (I think) it's used in Indian (the nation) poetry.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

The night is young and full of life
as mom and dad renewed their vows

Alid

It's time to kick it up a notch.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

Alone I strive to be, such mockery can be sustained
if once my ego can be purposely set free

this could be parsed iambic

Alone/ I strive/ to be/, such mock/ery/ can be/ sustained
if once/ my eg/o can/ be purp/osely/ set free

yet I think both mockery and purposely are actually dactyls.

here is how I say it

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0kYHZE0Vjrd

 

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

i find, no mattter how many times I try, i can't stress 'can' here - it may be just me, but I read your second verse as

if once | my eg | -o can | be purp | ose –ly | set free

love judy

xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

we all say things differently, we stress things differently. There is only one way to parse poetry correctly, but it doesn't necessarily correspond to how we say it.
I am not trying to obstruct or be difficult, fuck knows I've tried and failed to teach meter before, badly. I was too didactic. Yet Wesley is being successfully didactic. I am learning more about running workshops than meter here.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

That's a very satisfying compliment from you.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

I also read "can" as unstressed in the line she refers to. I also agree that to an extent meter is a lot dependent on the reader. And it might not be just a dialect thing either. In that line with aforementioned "can" I could well be the writer wants the word to be stressed because he wants his ability to be emphasized.

And this is why perfect sustained meter to me is so difficult. There are times where I Want a word stressed by the reader which normally wouldn't be and Not just to make the rhythm smooth.

I have the same problem with strict meter rule.

Alid

We all need to learn these strict meters so when we decide to break a rule, it's done on purpose and to good affect. I suspect to those who speak English as a second language this is even harder to do

the problem of wanting to stress an unstressed word in a write can be overcome, to some extent, by using italics
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

The night/ is young/ and full/ of life
as mom/ and dad/ renewed/ their vows

I hear renewed as 2 syllables, newed pronounced nude, tho in older forms the -ed suffix can be pronounced seperatelty. And good on you for using at least one polysyllabic word.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0wxPqhWheXi

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

First to review.
Everyone (almost everyone) submitted two verses of poetry written in iamb. The length was up to the poet. We had everything from trimeter to heptameter (am I spelling that right?).
I believe in the end we had universal success. If there is anyone in this workshop still struggling with iamb, PM me and we will figure it out together.
I guaranteed success and I was serious.

On to Anapest (also spelled Anapaest). Anapest is from the Greek and means “struck back” or in other terms: an anti dactyl.

It is a rising foot as it comes from unstressed syllables to a stressed syllable (like iamb). An anapaestic foot is contrived of three syllables. Two unstressed followed by one stressed syllable. It also may be written in any verse length from unimeter to heptameter and beyond… if you dare.

A famous example:
“ ‘Twas the night before Christmas and all through the house,
not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse.”

This is written in anapaestic tetrameter. I would invite anyone and everyone to scan (parse) this.
Your assignment then is obvious. Write for us all a single verse of anapaest. The length is up to the poet, but the poet must now tell us what the verse’s length is.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

‘Twas the night/ before Christ/mas and all/ through the house,
not a creat/ure was stirr/ing, not ev/en a mouse.”

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0dWlnkKgitn

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

are some who write song lyrics. They are going to find this really hard because they are used to mangling the pronunciation to fit the music.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

was a piece of cake wasn't it?

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

Someone parse that. It should be anapest. Does anyone disagree? One could parse it iamb, but then the middle is clumsy.
No go on trochee or dactyl.
Analyze the verse please.
And write your anapestic verses.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

is how it could well be meant to be read (but likely not how you want it read)

IF you ALL have a go THEN you'll LEARN HOW it works.
but you want it read this way
If you ALL have a GO then you'll LEARN how it Works.

I think you could scan a verse a half dozen ways, but only a couple will work well. I didn't need a particular word accented, so I wrote straight anapest.
And your comment about breaking rules is spot on. If we don't understand what we are gently or aggressively abusing then we tend to make a mess.
It must always come down to rhythm.
Meter simply describes the rhythm. We're holding to strict meter structure, so the meter can be understood.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

a single verse is very dependent on the context in which its written. The way you've done it is as if one is talking in a normal manner and the way I did it was as if one was talking in the imperative way. How's that for nit picking? lol

I don't care if the verse makes sense as long as the meter is sound. That's all I'm fishing for here in the Wading Pool. I promised that I would offer nothing that cannot be mastered in the workshop with a little effort.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

"If you all/ have a go/ then you'll learn/ how it works."

anapaeist tetrameter

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1a9vFxDoSpB

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

Not sure what you call it ???

“On the river I saw many a swarm of flies"

Da Da Dum,Da Da Dum, Da Da Dum, Da Da Dum.

Got to do tetra as pentameter is too long to fit the square here,
Hope its near right, Yours, Ian

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

but play dumb, it really pisses me off. You are a highly skilled poet who conveys more than most in a single poem. Your spirit shines
Please don't act dumb

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

This was an attempt at an anapaestic line instead of saying I am acting Dum, please give a little constructive critique.
Wesel says that the "a" is no good in this line of writing and the last two are not correct ????
How come??
Yours Ian.T

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

On the riv/er I saw/ many a /swarm of /flies

2 anapests , a dactyl, a trochee and a hanging monometer.

See if someone else parses it differently.

my reading

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0qczUNawBkJ

 

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

"a".
You needed an accent there and as you learned in your sonnet workshop articles (such as "the" or "a") cannot be accented.
The last two are iamb which is not a bad thing. Exercise three will talk about and demonstrate how these two meters complement each other.
However, as for a fully anapestic verse: not quite.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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author comment

there was choice of a biscuit or cake with their tea
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Biscuit or cake. But the meters combine successfully which is exercise three.
Not yet Ian. I'd still like to see a verse entirely anapestic. It's actually easier than you think when you get in the rhythm of saying it.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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author comment

biscuit is two syllables

there was choice | of a  bis | -cuit or cake | for their tea

love judy

xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

I was being silly.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
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author comment

Those who DWELL /in the PAST /will lose SIGHT /of toDAY

Alid

those who dwell | in the past | will lose sight | of to -day

xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

those who/ dwell in the/ past will lose/ sight of/ today

trochee/ dactyl/dactyl/trochee/iamb.

 

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1JWFP7dVVEW

 

 

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

We're at anaepest now - not mixed
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

not intent.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

we should parse by intent, to show where the meter is out, rather than confusing those learning with other feet atm ???
what do you think?
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

parsing by intent distorts the meter

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

And the person whose verse it is can see where they are wrong
Remember this is splash pool, and a lot of participants don't know the meters
It can become very confusing to them if you keep talking about trochee and pyrrhic etc, when they only know iambic and anaepest

xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

The Splash Pool is for the big kids.
I want to make sure we are only talking about basic meter here. I guaranteed understanding, so I have to keep expectations low.
Trochee and dactyl are for Part Two.
Let's finish combining iamb and anapest successfully first.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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author comment

We sus-PECT /he's a FRAUD /when he CHANGED / his ad-DRESS.

Is this right?

Alid

sounds good to me
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

You began with a word that just begged to be accented. Once it was accented, it changed the rhythm for the rest of the poem. How you start a poem is critical. It sets tone, meter and subject. A friend of mine once told me that you should be able to jump up and down on that first verse.
Your second verse is correct. Of course we could scan it other ways, but it reads as anapest quite easily.
Now move on. Write for us a verse that combines the use of both of these meters. Remember that an anapest is nothing more than an iamb with an extra unstressed syllable. When it works, simply eliminate that syllable then slip back into anapest. You'll have to trust me on this: it's easier than it sounds like.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

join me. I see my buddy Enos here. Glad you could join. I'll read and get a sense on here. I soon want to learn meter. I'm tired so I won't participate fully but will taste this ws for the fruits within.

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great to see you here, you're added and in ;)

to get started, write one verse (one line) of iambic meter, any length - it can have three feet, four feet, five feet or six feet

let us know, if you can, how many feet and therefore what the meter is called

(cheats's sheet (shhh) 3 feet - trimeter, 4 feet - tetrameter 5 feet - you know this one, 6 feet - hexameter)

xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

thanks for starting me off

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka. All Neopoets welcome to join the Collaborative Poetry Writing Workshop.
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unstressed/stressed
Pentameter
I'm tired as heck make me a kid again

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I'm TIRED/ as HECK / MAKE ME/a KID/ aGAIN

Do you know the name?

Can you do another one of same length or shorter or longer dear?

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I'm tired/ as heck/ I wish/ to be/ a kid/ again.

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a perfect iamb.
Well done dear!!

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No

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka. All Neopoets welcome to join the Collaborative Poetry Writing Workshop.
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which is called "hexameter"

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I forget/ everything and/ remember/ very little.
What would this be.

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I forget/ everything and/ remember/ very little

I forGOT/ EVEryTHING /and reMEMber/VERY LITtle
as you can see, it is a mix of anapest and trochaic

We need one verse of pure anapest first. Can you?
anapest is /unstressed unstressed STRESSED/
so it is very much like iamb but with one extra unstressed syllable.

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I'll try it.

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka. All Neopoets welcome to join the Collaborative Poetry Writing Workshop.
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I canNOT/ for the LIFE/ of me GET/ this sonNET/ in my HEAD

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Perfect dear !

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I got it. Now what next

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka. All Neopoets welcome to join the Collaborative Poetry Writing Workshop.
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Try to mix both iambi and anapest in one verse.

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Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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forGET/ ing EVE/ ryTHING/ reMEM/ berING/ noTHING

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka. All Neopoets welcome to join the Collaborative Poetry Writing Workshop.
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forGET/ ing EVE/ ryTHING/ reMEM/ ber-ing/ NOthing

The last two feet don't match iambic...

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Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
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i AM/ inSPIRED/ to LEARN/ meTER

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka. All Neopoets welcome to join the Collaborative Poetry Writing Workshop.
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Try to read it aloud, it doesn't du DUM

i AM / in SP/ired to /LEARN ME/ ter

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or inSPIRED

If you pronounce as two syllables, then

i AM /in SPIRED /to LERN / (these are all iambic)
/MEter/ is not iambic

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Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
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So it like this
i AM /in SPIRED /to LEARN /son NET

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka. All Neopoets welcome to join the Collaborative Poetry Writing Workshop.
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I pronounce "tired" as two syllables.
I still agree with Rula's scanning.
Make sure you're reading aloud to yourself and force the rhythm of iamb as you read. It will make some words sound strange. That's where your problems are.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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author comment

is to hear from those in the workshop that haven't dropped by yet.
Next, is to see everyone's single verse of anapest. Some have posted and succeeded. I'd like to see that happen for everyone.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
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author comment

understanding iambic verse was simple..i could understand the trochee as well but this Anapest is beyond me...

raj (sublime_ocean)

The two meters (iamb and anapest) complement one another because they are nearly alike. An anapest is nothing more than an iamb with an extra unaccented syllable. Try using the example of Twas the night before Christmas and simply say that rhythm over again like singing a song, then start putting your own words to the rhythm. Don't worry about them making sense, we just want to put words to rhythm; the anapest rhythm. Do this on a number of occasions and you'll find that it takes very little thought to slip into making sense.
Treat it like a song at first.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

I forgot to remember forgetting you...

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To the many men who in their rage have committed an act
I think this might be anapestic hexameter

This would make an anapestic pentameter

to the MAN/y men WHO/ in their RAGE/ have coMITTED/ed an ACT

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coMITTED/ed ?

Excellent verse. Yes it is anapest. You can actually scan it different ways, but anapest works best and would be how I read it.
Everyone is talking about it so...

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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author comment

Line that I submitted
Could be

i forGOT/ to reMEM/ ber forGET/ting YOU (then it is a mix)

Sir?

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It's catalectic. Don't stress the last "you" and then you're missing the last syllable of the last foot.
Catalectic anapaestic tetrameter. Don't laugh. You can't make this stuff up.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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author comment

I forgot to remember forgetting you then

I forGOT/ to reMEM / ber forGET/ting you THEN

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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One word makes an anapestic foot

/com-pre-HEND/ ... monometer
Two short and one long
Or
Two unstressed and one stressed

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polysyllabic. Words of more than one syllable. Jess wanted to address it, but I decided to keep the workshop as simple as advertised.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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author comment

From the beginning one of the tenets of this workshop (we are in the Wading Pool after all... hope you all have your flotation devices on) is that all participants will work at their own pace (you've heard this before, but I wanted to repeat it). Hence we have poets who are late come and working on iamb. Some have figured out anapest and it's time for those poets to be allowed to go forward.
No one is being hurried. This workshop will be open the full thirty days and beyond.
I guaranteed success and I will deliver to those who try.

Exercise Three

Mixing meters.

Some are asking me why I chose to pair iamb with anapest.
The simple answer is they complement one another both being rising meters.
The mixing of these two meters goes back to a popularity of it in the 19th century with such poets as Swinburne.

An example of combining the two meters by Yeats.

"Fled foam underneath us and 'round us, a wandering and milky smoke
As high as the saddle-girth, covering away from our glances the tide
And those that fled and that followed from the foam-pale distance broke.
The immortal desire of immortals we saw in their faces and sighed."

Note he fairly abuses the combination, but never does he use other than those meters.
The last verse is strictly anapest, the others are not.
Trochee and dactyl complement one another in the same way, but that’s for Part Two.

Assignment: to write a single verse combining both iamb and anapest.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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author comment

I'm not happy yet, so this is rough draft. I don't like the transition from anapest to iamb and I wish I could have arranged to ping pong the meters back and forth. But for what it is here is my beginning.

‘Twas the night before Christmas I think cause I was really drunk that night.
Are there lemon sharks in the wading pool. I could use one.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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author comment

parse it for me sir?

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twas the NIGHT | be -fore CHRIS | -mas i THINK | CAUSE i | was REALL | -y DRUMK | that NIGHT
a tinsy trochee in there?
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

It's a very poor example. I prefer writing in anapest alone. The combination throws me.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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author comment

parabolic form...I have no idea...
I suffered greatly school
nio math..no memory
social anxiety bad..had to sit in bathroom stall all day
panic attacks

coped with booze eventually
part of my thinking is I attatch a why
to each small note..
I know adjectives ..nouns..pro nouns
that sort of thing just
like I know fractions...a bit in math

I can play guitar free style..
plunking melodic on strings
sliding some bending notes
but know three chords
and I dont admit to being a guitar
player..
same with POetry
to really be a true poet one must
know all the fundementals

I like you Wesley..You know all
the mecahins through and through
My compture fan is dying at the
moment....bearins done..
time sparingly
before it starts to vibrate
it growls its comic Grrrrrrrrr.
like being a hack writer and
the ink dies on your typewriter..

anyway...will study what this is
about on my own for moment
just means im not a very tehnically
proficient poet?

Thank You!

You are welcome to peruse everywhere. This is the Wading Pool. All are welcome.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

He TRIED /to ma-LIN/ger but FAILED /to conVINCE /his DAD.
iambic/ anapest/ anapest/anapest/iambic

Is this right?

Alid

Well done Alid
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Still find it dificult.

Alid

Why don't you do another one, just to practise.

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I can SEE | that the EGGS | for the EAST | -er SEA | son are AL | -read - y ON | the SHELVES

xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

exercise 2??? I am lost...this thread is getting hard for me to follow. I am trying to be as present as possible but am in the process of packing up house and moving and work has been a bit hectic this week. Please bring me up to speed.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Exercise 1 was write one verse (line) of iambic - any length

Exercise two write one verse in anaepest - three syllables to a foot, two unstressed followed by one stressed
ta ta DUM | ta ta DUM | ta ta DUM....

Exercise 3 - mix the two

take your time
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

thanks for the explanation of Anapest. The degree of stress is certainly going up. iambic now looks easier of the two. :)

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

if you WISH | I sing FOR | you then NE | -ver you NEED | to look FAR |

does that remotely look like anapestic pentameter?

raj (sublime_ocean)

You've mixed up at least 2 words in
if you WISH | I sing FOR | you then NE | -ver you NEED | to look FAR |

SING (stressed word)
for (non-stressed)

Not sure about the rest. Wait for others to comment.

Alid

for pointing out the error. I have never been good at it.

raj (sublime_ocean)

I ony know this because I checked them out in http://dictionary.reference.com/. Why don't you do the same? Maybe this might help abit.

Alid

if you WISH | i SING for | YOU then NE | -ver you NEED | to LOOK FAR
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Alid, you rock and so do you Judyanne.
Carrie, Judyanne's instructions are correct, but don't feel hurried. Everyone is to work at their own pace. You're working only with yourself.
Even when we go to Part Two, stay on what you're working on. I need you to understand iamb and anapest first.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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author comment

Thank you. I will catch up over the weekend.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Of listing piers and cracked hearthstones

of old PIERS / and CRACKED / hearthSTONES
anapest, iamb,iamb

what are you up to? Mixed?
This is iambic iambic iambic trochee, no anaepest

of LIST | - ing PIERS | and CRACKED | HEARTH stones

xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

not "up to mixed" just mixed up lol. If at first you don't succeed...................

HEARTH -stones ------ trochee
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

I thought if given a choice between stressing and adjective or noun that the noun came out stressed

are both nouns... and apart from that, your thesis re adjectives and nouns is grossly flawed ;)

The first part of a multiple word is stressed
SOME -where
SOME -one
MANT -le -piece....

xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

the type of stone. In the compound word hearthstone it would be considered a part of a noun. This type stuff is what keeps poetry an art as opposed to science isn't it? lol

However, I agree with Judyanne's assessment.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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author comment

think you are both confusing hearth stone with hearthstone

HEARTH-stone ---- trochee
or HEARTH STONE----- spondee
...

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

hearthSTONE when used as a compound word. I'm pretty uncertain about a lot of stressed vs. unstressed syllables and was thinking maybe I'd been mispronouncing it all my life due to some dialect thing. So I ((((shudder))))) looked it up lol

Are you sure you're reading the stresses correctly?
I still get HEARTH-stone

And my tongue cannot say hearthSTONE -it sounds forced
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

but the LEAST/ I've TRIED/ to comPOSE/ the SO/nnet 'BOVE/
i mainTAINED/ a RHYTHM/ and a RHYME/to WIN / your LOVE

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Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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the SONN | -et a -BOVE
nice iambic | anaepest
above doesn't shorten to 'bove without sounding forced - it's not a word usually shortened

The rest is fine - well mixed meter
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

In the best of times there will be no crimes

in the BEST / of TIMES / there will BE / no CRIMES

anapest , iambic , anapest , iambic

(You forgot to capitalise 'crimes')
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

It gets easier as you write like that. My combination is horrible, I confess to enjoying anapest by itself though.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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How many participants have had success with the iambic verses?
How many participants have had success with the anapestic verse?
You know who you are, so please tell me.
It's important in determining when we begin Part Two.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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author comment

I have succeeded in both iambic and anapestic verses

Alid

I'm just observing now.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

try as I may, I can't rectify that last foot. Errr help please?

The VE/ry i-DEA/ that I HAVE/ to CHEAT /to WIN/ is ri-DI/-cu-LOUS
iambic /anapest /anapest /iambic /iambic /anapest /

Alid

(as long as you mean a little 'i')
well done Alid
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

I say INsult when it's a noun and inSULT when it's a verb.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

the VE | -ry i DEA | that i HAVE | to CHEAT | to WIN | is ri -DIC | -u -lous
heptameter
iambic | anapaest | anapaest | iambic | iambic | anapaest | pyrrhic

-but the 'lous' in 'ridiculous' may be passed by Wes as stressed, as we tend to go down beat at the end of a sentence - if so, then you are correct
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

I'm seeing stars.

iambic - unstressed/ stressed
trochee - stressed/ unstressed
anapest - unstressed, unstressed/stressed
dactyll - stressed/ unstressed, unstressed
pyrrhic - ?????

Can tell me the definition of pyrrhic?

Alid

that pyrrhic is | unstressed unstressed |
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metre_%28poetry%29

scroll down to

Metric variations

your will find a handy table of the various metric forms

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

A lot could depend once again on the dialect. How the person wants to speak it, but as a combination I think it works. My personal opinion leans toward the last two syllables as pyrrhic.
Don't panic. Go on with a verse of trochee. The directions are above, but if you can't find them ask and it shall be delivered unto you.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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author comment

xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Have also posted all three correctly.

I did them too.

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If you hear your name, say "yes" please :)

Carrie
Geezer
Enos
Barbara
Jess

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I've been far from well, please process as though I have,
trust me, I know them.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

I would very much like to hear from the "absentees" (not in the workshop, just absent in this list) before I begin Part Two.
It looks to me that almost everyone mastered iamb. I want everyone. If anyone is having trouble with iamb or anapest please PM me and we will discuss it together.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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I am away tomorrow for a week or so.
I will be off the computer waves, so will have to stop being in this workshop, sorry about it but I will not be able to sort out and catch up.
Good workshop though, I shall wait for the next one or experiment when I return with the meter forms,
Yours as always Ian.T

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

See you when you get back. We will likely still be here.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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Thanks for the workshop it really teaches us a great deal, one thing I found is that it would need more time for each part.
The whole thing could be sorted into numbered sections and slowed a little,
I remember the story we all wrote where each of us was given a part and a numbered piece to write it worked in the end.
But teaching Form as meter it needs a part for each section then I could re-join at the place I leave.
Take care will try t catch up on return but meter is a hard subject for me,
Yours Ian..

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

This is what has been so far covered and discussed to be refered to easily. For details, please detect through out the thread.

1-Rhythm vs. Meter

**Rhythm is the flow of the poem. It is how it gets from point A to point B and beyond. It is the sound of the poem. It is the music of the poem.

**Meter is a way by which we may DESCRIBE the rhythm of the poem.

2-Quantitative vs. Qualitative

**Quantitative is the meter of the ancient world. In this type of meter stresses are irrelevant. What varies the verse is the use of long and short vowel sounds.

**Qualitative is the meter of the modern era (beginning with the Renaissance) characterized by stressed syllables coming at regular intervals

3- The verse = one line in poetry

4- Types of meter depending on the Numbers of feet in one verse

* Unimeter is one foot for the verse.
* Bimeter is two feet for the verse.
* Trimeter is three feet for the verse.
* Tetrameter is four feet for the verse.
* Pentameter is five feet for the verse .
*Hexameter is six feet for the verse.

5-Types of meters so far discussed
*iambic (unstressed STRESSED
** anapest (unstressed unstressed STRESSED)

to be updated accordingly...

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if I Ever let FEver get HOLD of my HEALTH - anapest
NEver SHALL I SNEEZE aLOUD to SPREAD the BUG - trochaic
i HOPE my COLD is JUST a PASSing PHASE - iambic pentameter
LIKE a FLASH of THUNder, beFORE the HEAvy RAIN - trochaic & iambic fusion

have I done better???

raj (sublime_ocean)

If I ever get a fever

if i E/ver GET/ a FEver
Only the first foot is anapest.
Remember
unstressed unstressed STRESSED

will talk about torchaic in part two of the workshop.

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I am more confused now...didnt you say that anapest is unstressed unstressed stressed..

In If I ever ..i have followed that sequence havent I?
Anyways, since you say i am wrong i accept failure

unless I find a dictionary which breaks down each word into stressed and unstressed syllables..i will continue to stay stressed...no point for me to re-discover that I am dumb when it comes to understand fundamentals of stressed & unstressed syllables...most sportingly therefore i retreat...not before having given this a mighty try..

raj (sublime_ocean)

if you are attempting a pure anapest verse, only the first feet of the verse is working as anapest. The second feet and the third are iamb with half a foot less at the end.
It's always advisable to say which ex. you are working on to avoid this confusion.

Now, which one are you attempting?

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Appreciate your patience with me. Please excuse me and let me get out of this metrics zone. believe me it is driving me crazy..

Best regards and thanks for all the help,

raj (sublime_ocean)

brave men don't usually quit easily. :)

You are doing really good. You only need to lable it as a mix of both anapest and iambic.

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a small timer . period.

raj (sublime_ocean)

you are a highly skilled wordcrafter. Listening to the Indian accent I understand that words are often stressed very differently, which would make this workshop especially difficult for you, but not impossible. I will give an example I have used often before; the British say cigarette (anapest), Americans say cigarette (dactyl). Both are correct to a speaker of the same accent. To formalise pronunciation beyond regional differences I suggest a good dictionary that supplies phonetic spelling. My preference is for British, a British dictionary. It is, after all, the English language.  There are also, as Rula has explained, grammatical rules that help.

Look at how expert Rula has become, with English as a second language.
Her expertise has come not just from natural genius but through diligence and practice.

It would really help, as I have said often before, if you could record your own pronunciation on Vocaroo or Soundcloud, we may be able to give you more effective feedback.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

and don't forget the perfect competent mentor

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will you CHECK my aTTEMPT again?
i will THANK you a LOT

[GRINNing BROADly]

raj (sublime_ocean)

I've CHECKED /and YOU /have PASSED/ and QUA/liFIED /for the NEXT/

BRAVO! But TRY/a GAIN/ to DO/ some A/ naPIS/tic PLEASE/

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if i E/ ver LET FE/ver GET HOLD/ of my HEALTH - anapest

Raj, as you can see the fist and last feet work as anapest.

Trochee... passed
Iamb ....passed

Well done!
Another round? With anapest I mean

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You are being nice to say good things and in a very gentle manner letting me know that
"if I Ever let FEver get HOLD of my HEALTH" - is not an anapest
and that as you have said in

if i E/ ver LET FE/ver GET HOLD/ of my HEALTH - anapest

only the fist and last feet work as anapest...

you can now perhaps understand that I am not able to decide which is unstressed and which is stressed syllable..in the above verse I was under the impression that LET and GET were unstressed syllables...I really don't have a clue how to decide which is unstressed and which is stressed ...hope you now appreciate my quandary..

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

Sometimes I am just with much work with the kids here, so if I am not nice with words please just know it's but a tiring day :)
As for LET and GET are main verbs and hence are STRESSED.
I don't know if Judy or Wesley has any better explanation.
Let's see what they should say.

PS.As native speakers, some have a trained ear and when they read aloud they know where the stress falls.

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The verse is anapest, you simply scanned it wrong. Rula, you scanned it multiple ways.
I think.
"If I E- / ver let FE / ver get HOLD / of my HEALTH; (Don't forget the semi colon as you've written an incomplete sentence. Not important here though).

Anapestic tetrameter.
Stop fussing with it and go on.
Have you mixed meters yet? If so then write a single verse of Trochee. The instructions are above or if you can't...
Oh hell, trochee is a two syllable foot. One stressed/one unstressed. The opposite of iamb. If you already knew this... there's nothing like review.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

seems you've misunderstood me. I feel guilty now if I misled you. Sorry if I did.
Please don't give up. It's very easy and you do only need to mimic the first feet to get the anapest pure verse.

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my decision has nothing to do with your comment. I thoroughly respect your help and good intentions as always. So please don't get me wrong. I hope you appreciate how much I have been trying endlessly to get this metrics kind of stuff right ...but i do understand my limitations and with due respect to all i bid adieu to this WS.....good or bad..believe me please that i find these restrictive strict poetry forms ruining my self confidence...

raj (sublime_ocean)

and I really respect and understand whatever your decision is.

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thanks a lot

respectfully,

raj (sublime_ocean)

someone has reported me to Principal Wesley and he has ordered me back. ..was it you? :)

anyways...i can't be disrespectful to anyone and certainly not the Principal ..so will give those 4 verses a mighty try again...hopefully without getting stressed...

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

Remember,
He is the authority. He knows everything. :)
Welcome back to the horrors of the meter.

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A good description. mmm. even though I have managed to complete the exercises so far, I STILL find myself very incompetent in the subject.

Alid

Learning.
The same applies to you as I said to Raj above. You are a highly skilled wordcrafter...
Look at how expert Rula has become, with English as a second language.
Her expertise has come not just from natural genius but through diligence and practice.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

I just need more practice.

Alid

We're just getting started.

Part Two

Trochee.

As always, some review is in order. If you will peruse Rula’s List above you will find what I think is a very concise review of what we tried to accomplish.

This next is important. Everyone still struggling with iamb or anapest are still in the thick of this workshop. Post your continued attempts and we will continue to aid in your understanding. I again invite anyone to PM me if you have specific questions or just want more help.

Don’t be shy. I’m the Director of the Mentor Program.
It’s what I do, it’s who I am.

For now I’m selling mechanics. It is dull, but necessary work.

Onward.
With what we learned in part one, part two should actually be easier. The hardest step to take is the first one. The idea of thinking in meter at all is alien to how we generally think.
If we can figure out da-DUM, da-DUM, da-DUM, we can figure out every other meter no matter how complex seeming because it is all nothing more than a variation on a theme.
Add an unstressed syllable to the front of an iambic foot and suddenly you have anapest.
Take an iamb and reverse it and suddenly you have Trochee.
There are only so many ways you can evenly order words.

An example of trochaic tetrameter:
“Round about the cauldron go;
in the poisoned entrails throw.”
Shakespeare

Assignment: A single verse of trochee in at least tetrameter. Remember that iamb and anapest do not play well with trochee or dactyl. Keep them apart.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
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THOSE who / STRIKE a/GAINST the / WEAK are / COW-ards.

This is Trochee pentameter. Am I right?

Alid

to the letter of the law if not the spirit. It is trochaic pentameter alright, but it lacks rhythm, flow, feel.
However, that's not the assignment which you passed.
So do it again this time as an Alexandrine (hexameter... six feet per verse).
Don't give up on me now, son... you're getting it figured out.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
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author comment

FLEE you / CO-wards! / FLEE and /HIDE or /FACE my/ WRAITH now!

Alid

Take a break while we wait for the others then we will start dactyl.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

Chasing rainbows, balmy nights of summer sunsets - pure delight
(And trochee makes me write hypermetrical, 'cos it doesn't sound finished to me on an up-beat - lol))

xxxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

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