About workshops

Workshops on Neopoet are groups that meet for a certain period of time to focus on a certain aspect of poetry. Each workshop participant is asked to critique all the other poems submitted into a workshop. A workshop leader helps coordinate -- they set the agenda, give participants feedback on whether their submissions and critique are at they level expected of them, and after the workshop is over, give feedback to participants. 

To join a workshop, first find one that is of interest to you. Once you have found the right workshop (and verified that it is open -- you can find this out in the description below), you can apply to join the workshop.


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Implied Imagery SHOP Here we go !

Program description/goal: 

Description:An exploration of phrases and words that convey more meaning than their dictionary definition

Leader: scribbler
Moderator(s): weirdelf

Objectives:To get folks thinking about how the use of certain words and phrases can expand the message conveyed by poetry

Level of expertise: Open to all

Subject matter:Implied imagery and it uses

Length: 
60 days
Number of participants (limit): 
78 people
Skill level: 
Date: 
Friday, November 16, 2018 to Sunday, January 13, 2019
Short description: 
We will start with an ongoing discussion of what implied imagery is and how it can help our poetry. we will then each submit a poem(other than our own) for shop purposes. After being submitted each poem will be stripped of imagery by another member then r

Comments

Please add me to your workshop, I am busy but it will be a pleasure to be with our poets,
Yours Ian ..

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

I'll add you to list now.

author comment

drops of dew had a tinge of blue
...................................................................

raj (sublime_ocean)

but simply drops of dew leaves the reader free to visualize it any way they want.

author comment

I'd take it as drops of dew
precum
would like it you
and would it also do
look like dew
raj dear
ask him too

best hope my better half doesn't read this lol

author comment

Implied or inferred imagery is a wonderful tool when used right. It's also difficult TO use right or even define what right is lol. But since its use can be such a powerful thing let's see if we can define it:
Implied imagery is the picture formed within a mind from reading a word or phrase which is Not just the word or phrase. We can all give detailed descriptions in order to convey exact images but that can tend to be a bit verbose and can also hinder the reader's imagination.
So let's use a single word and see what it brings to mind...Raven..On first impression it's just a medium sized black bird.,,,

What else does it bring to mind for ya'll? i'll check back in in a couple hours and see what responses are forthcoming......stan

author comment

Eye pecking, dark portrayer of death that many on the Tyburn tree didn't feel..

Dew:- Vestiges of temperature changes, left to glow liken to diamonds, in the suns new day..

Hello Stan, I have put two here, so we can sort out what we are needing, if these two are no good I shall endeavour to write as you require later probably tomorrow,
Yours, Ian

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

But for now let's just concentrate on Raven and see what other participants have to say. I myself hear raven or crow and I think of them carrying should from here to the next life

author comment

Raven-implied imagery - ill omen., lost souls. ghosts of murdered people
......................................................................................

raj (sublime_ocean)

I'd not heard of the ghosts of murdered people before so see how differently a raven might be interpreted? Anybody else?

author comment

Time to start thinking about some poem (it can be yours, somebody else's on site (get permission) or a famous writer's) which has extensive imagery but is not Too long. Don't submit the poem until I ask you to......stan

author comment

I have already posted one a few hours back Stan
.............................................

raj (sublime_ocean)

Leave it posted although it would have been better to wait until I asked lol. Don't want people getting ahead of other people

author comment

apologies Stan
...................................

raj (sublime_ocean)

Problem. With the site members all over the world we have to be careful that some of us don't get ahead of others.

author comment

a black bird all know

makes one's heart sink
feel the guilt when someone is amiss
or dying in a hospy
murky feeling
may kill a living human
raven be still
go to your grave ye will
darkness of night you portray
on a moonlit night
sad bad omen
for lovers any one
they all will a raven shun
now stan
you just imagine your mind
why has it chosen raven
as you are suffering still
deep in knee pain may be
kill me if you will

susan will appreciate this
cast away the blackness
stan quickly

very few good things are associated with ravens

author comment

u can never be
the raven kinda man

you have always
had ur stand
holding better half's hand

lucky man

Could you add me?

IRiz

are in

author comment

This is meant to be a participant driven shop with an open exchange of ideas so feel free to let us all know what you think

author comment

I think "Nevermore”. Hence this poem I posted a while back... I think everybody (every person who ever took an American Literature course) would think the same.
It's in our culture, a cartoon raven always says it. I hope by posting this a bit longer poem is in line with the idea of this workshop....

"Nevermore"

To EAP

Our vehicles swarm on a steel hot day
Around the busy round-about
Where the highway meets Route 4.
It was there my eyes saw a raven
Arriving and defiantly posed
Folding his wings behind his back,
In the center of the berm with dead weeds,
Encircled by a wall of stone.

His eyes followed our every move;
Black like the craggy graveyards
He must have come from
(Like that stupid poem we read in school
About some creepy bird and fool).

The zig-zag of cars avoided his gaze
Amid the thump of rock and roll
And the taste of diesel fuel,
Swerving around the traffic loop,
A bottleneck for we suburbanites
For lo the many years,
Parading daily, always weary,
Drained by work or lack of sleep
Awaking from the dreamless dream,
No different than our kinsmen of before...
(Only this, and nothing more.)

The bird stands his ground in dreadful sight,
Not once to take to flight
Despite the blaring horns
From trucks howling like wolves.
As we pass we try to hide our fright-
He is both half bird and ghost
(Like that poem we once had to read
O what did it mean? What did it mean?)

How long he’ll stay we cannot know
Perched on his pulpit in the weeds,
None of us dare speak of it,
Or worship it, or seek to comprehend
Why we just don’t shoot it dead
As he croaks a word we can’t ignore
That fills us with forgotten lore
(From that poem we all deplore,
The one felt in our very core-
“Nevermore!”
“Nevermore!”)

..

Eumolpus
I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing
than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance
ee cummings

Poe's raven likely is the best known bird in poetry. Using this poem to answer the numerous things a raven can bring to mind works pretty well although to have just stated the things would have been a bit shorter lol

author comment

Hi Stan,
thank you for organizing this interesting workshop and for including me.

My thoughts on the matter are probably not new to anybody, but since you asked:

The word alone without context is usually understood in its direct sense.
When it is surrounded by specific style of language
and by other words that hint on potential indirect meaning of the word, we start noticing that symbolic meaning is implied by the author. The rest is like Japanese drawing the less lines/words the better. None of the descriptions can be complete, imagery is always a scheme that invokes readers' imagination. Where is it enough to stop describing is a matter of taste and writer's fear not to be understood.
Also for implied imagery no metaphor and no symbolic meaning is necessary!

the childless woman
touches the dolls
so tenderly

In this poem by Ransetsu (Basho student) reader sees a woman that touches the doll but imagines everything that goes through her heart

About the word "raven", it has a cultural reference to a talking bird that says to the tormented lover "Nevermore" and has become a symbol of self-inflicted pain, but if I read about nesting and vocalizing ravens, i don't think about the word nevermore. Funny, but when i read the word "nevermore" i do think sometimes about the talking raven.

The last thing i want to say that implied imagery is very common in prose as well. Especially in good one.

IRiz

IS fairly common. What we are going to attempt here is make it a thing we use more on purpose rather than coincidentally.

author comment

Let's each post a single line of no more than 5 words which has a lot of implied imagery. Once they are all posted here we'll all tell what the images are which it brings to mind then we'll hear from the author which ones she/he intended. No rush

author comment

Here are a few words, needed six really as you know I over word things.

"Eyes neatly plucked, from death"
Ravens feast from the old days ..

"Beware you Tyburn tree swingers"
Sarcastic mirth of bad taste lol
Just an addition for fun, Yours Ian .

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

Here are my five words

Solitude.
Not again.
Still waiting.

I can't resist, it is a very good exercise, here are two more sets:

Coming out, exposed, embracing, releaved.

Flying over.
Hopeful.
Too late.

IRiz

I must not have been clear. We are not just posting random words but rather a single 4-5 word poetic verse.

author comment

Lovedly's five words only seed

second set

relieve
self
from all
pangs

third one

stress
high BP
cause
lovelessness

fourth

satisfaction
dreams
fascination
final culmination

Please see my comment above to IRiz

author comment

Deep green winter woods

author comment

lol, my lines are not separate words, my friend.
they are examples of implied images
if you read the first one again, you will see that it implies
that there is someone who just broke up, doesn't like one's solitude and still hopes that one day meets somebody

the second one implies that there is a person who just admitted something about self, feels exposed and freed in the same time

the last one about someone who flew too late for the dying loved one.

On the other hand your line, Deep green winter woods
does't let me imply much
I can not even tell if it is a tropical or snowy winter.

for example, tall evergreens on untouched snow

implies mature woods away from trails in cold winter

or clattering winter rain
green rhododendrons

implies a thicket in a mild climate

or magnolia blooms
green tropical winter

all these images are permitted to be imagined when you read "Deep green winter woods"

so if one's want to be understood the broad terms are better to be avoided
We came to a great conclusion after this discussion! Thanks for your time. I think the workshop will be very useful for me.

IRiz

soles connect soul to soil

soles feel the soul

soul the sole companion

I'm guessing Stan may next ask participants to write a poem which has that line :}
................................................................

.

raj (sublime_ocean)

Soles connected soul to soil very good line. I think it might be about a farmer's connection to the land. Now let's see what others make of it

author comment

Thanks Stan for your comment
........................................................

raj (sublime_ocean)

The main problem with your lines is that I asked for one only. Let's wait and see what Sparrow posts and we'll start commenting on the lines we have submitted. BTW an entire poem IS coming but not next lol

author comment

Okay, pick one.

IRiz

The lovely Sparrow gave you the five word lines as soon as you asked for them two in fact and both were about the Ravens habits.. Take care, Yours Ian ..

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

sorry

author comment

Next lets all take the line(S) that Sparrow submitted and state what images those words bring to mind. Don't cheat and look at others' stuff before listing your own images.
I'll begin :
Eyes neatly plucked from death - I'll list my first impression , I see a person who is dying but then by whatever cause is saved from death

author comment

I abstain because I couldn't connect...
if it is mandatory to respond, you may fail me and exclude me from the SHOP going forward. Too tough for me. I believe this WS is more for the sharks though stated as open to all....
............................................................................................................................

raj (sublime_ocean)

hang in there. Just because you are a bit lost now doesn't mean that you will remain so.

author comment

they might help (or make it worse) [grins]

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

from hospice
back to hospy
incredibly 'tis
one awakes
no one knows how
docs surprise

Eyes neatly plucked from death

I don't like the line, it makes me to imagine
a meticulous surgion who extracts eyes for transplantation
The line implies that probably only the eyes are saved.
The use of the word pluck reminds me that eyes are attached to the head by stems containing blood vessels and nerves
It suggests that this stems are now teared.
What a disgusting image.
My morning is darkened.

IRiz

Echo has arrived..

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

Your summary is so near the real object of the event, it wasn't the surgeon, it was the Raven again lol.
The Black attendant of the Tyburn tree..
Thanks for your attention and realistic thought pattern, Yours as always Ian xx
PS:- I am so sorry that you can see and feel the images, it was my fault x

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

It is okay, Ian. You know I never angry with you.

IRiz

My image for this phrase is: The memory of a dead person's eyes as they looked in life.
.

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author comment

now what is next??? exciting workshop

IRiz

I had a previously planned deer hunting trip for Thanksgiving day and thus will be taking the day off. I'll be back Friday so ya'll just continue without me

author comment

backtracking a bit- ravens, you'll hate this, eyeballs on battlefields.

I'd like to introduce a word seldom used in this context- metonymy. Not quite the same as symbols. I'll give you the dictionary definition-
"a figure of speech that consists of the use of the name of one object or concept for that of another to which it is related, or of which it is a part, as 'scepter' or crown for sovereignty,” or 'the bottle' for “strong drink,” or “count heads (or noses)” for count people."

Think of 'the long arm of the law', 'The pen is mightier than the sword' (two metonyms there), 'The GM car with many holes' meaning a fatuous, abusive and self-promoting person. 'The White House' stands in for the US government. 'Suits' to represent businessmen. It is a much more frequently used alternative to imagery than we imagine. cf
https://examples.yourdictionary.com/examples-of-metonymy.html

Good on you Raj! It is really much better to post example poems linked to the workshop in the usual way, rather than in this thread. They make it unmanageable long.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

thanks for throwing light on metonymy...while i know few words or phrases mentioned by you..knew precious little or nothing about the other examples....it's because a) I am not well read b) english not being my mother tongue my progress is slow though trying to continually improve...

shall be passively following this work shop as part of the learning process..

thanks again,
...........................................................................

raj (sublime_ocean)

Eyeballs on a battlefield?!?! Ouch!

IRiz

The commanders' eyeball on the battle field is a lot different than the soldiers'

author comment

"A breath of fresh air." I think of breathing new life into a subject by another person's view.

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that's an unusual take Gee

author comment

Everybody try to find a poem by a famous poet which has some implied imagery. I'll start out with Frost's "Road Not Taken :
Two roads diverged in a yellow wood.....yellow wood not only says it's autumn but also tells the species of trees
And sorry I could not travel both
and be one traveler long I stood....Tells he's alone and in no hurry
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth...bent implies the road was straight for a spell

Then took the other as just as fair
And having perhaps the better claim
because it was grassy and wanted wear....this implies the road wanted traffic
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black....this tells that the road was in the northeast where the soil is dark grey
Oh! I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way
I doubted if I should ever come back

I shall be telling this with a sigh.... this sigh could mean numerous things
Somewhere ages and ages hence......telling he is young when road was taken
Two roads diverged in a wood , and I-
I took the one less traveled by,
and that has made all the difference.

Alright these are implied image I found. Do ya'll see any more?

author comment

good learning lesson for me Stan...thanks..
.....................................................................................

raj (sublime_ocean)

Then took the other as just as fair
And having perhaps the better claim
[perhaps means, the road was preferred by commoners]

Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same
[perhaps means the other road was also used by some]
...................................

raj (sublime_ocean)

I think these lines could easily be interpreted as you say. But you don't have to use the same poem that I used. If you have or have read a poem with implied imagery please feel free to post it and identify the imagery.

author comment

This is not That hard

author comment

Am short of time at the moment but will see what I can find tomorrow 29/11 Take care it is 1am here I am off to bed..

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

No big rush. Will give us time to talk about you behind your back....just kidding lol

author comment

I rushed to our full length mirror, there is no one talking behind me, just that beautiful me grinning at the reflection..
Oh wait!! There is some men in white coats over my shoulder, they say I have to go with them, bye for now young woodsman lol x

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

The thread has become so long...is there an easy way to catch up and be engaged?

Eumolpus
I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing
than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance
ee cummings

about posting poems to the workshop instead of into the thread?

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

This series of poems is just an exercise and not the poems which will constitute the meat of this shop.THOSE poems will go on stream and thus shorten this thread to general discussion while allowing members to see the shop in action on the stream. There is a method to my madness lol.....wait I said madness so it should be tee hee hee

author comment

It's pretty long but after this exercise the brunt of the shop will transfer to the stream.As far as catching up you can likely read the first 20 items then the last 10 and be in pretty good shape.

author comment

Summer grasses –
all that remains from the dreams
of brave warriors

In this haiku Basho implies that the war is over long time ago, the warrior’s dreams of fame and victory don’t mean much now, only the empty battlefield is kept untouched and grows grasses as a memory and respect to their lost lives.

IRiz

"Flanders' Fields" reduced to Haiku

author comment

This is where I describe a poet we all love yet I try to see through the subtle ways she presents herself to the world, I hope she doesn't mind me using this piece ..
The image seen but still hidden from most eyes..
Described in a sort of puzzle way..

Beauregard

Birthday girl of muddled ways
Ever inside wanting to truthfully see
Antisipating and always seeking a new way
Underestimating her own worth each day
Remembering most of the bad things
Ever losing sight of her own reality
Graced by a mind that is sharp and pure
Always giving way not being sure
Remember as you walk the next age
Dear Beauregard unique in many ways..

Here is a poem written for me by a Buddhist who tends a garden and sanctuary a few miles from us here..
It is a pity that we cannot put photos on here as you could see the beauty of his mind manifested in the garden he tends ..
Perfect weather

Sitting in the summer garden
Inner energy and outer climate are one
Seamless Passion

My body and nature world
are one perfect harmony.
Self and universe are one pure unity.

Perfect Weather
Sitting in the garden
Being one wholeness.

I love the summer
Everything beautiful
Creation wonder
Human life Miracle.

Maitreya

Buddhamaitreya.co.uk
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPqnEODKsdDbXYT7oLUyfxz0iwoXhMtBuLU...

Yours as always Ian.

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

it is not intuitive to post a poem in the "main" or "home page" stream when in a workshop stream, while evey one is posting here... Apologies, but I'm not sure where we are. I left off at ravens, am now in Haiku..?
I appreciate this is very difficult. It is very hard to keep a group discussion focused online. Perhaps what it needs is a chair that all have to follow like in a classroom, and that leader will include the various ideas, like on a blackboard. The group should be limited in their responses perhaps- everyone has a small space to fill in. Like a poetry "prompt" ...I'm just thinking aloud..

Eumolpus
I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing
than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance
ee cummings

as this shop apparently is for participants it has been maybe a little harder for the inept leader lol.

author comment

From this point on this thread should be used ONLY for general shop discussion and/or "fill in time" minor thought bombs.
We now enter the bones of the shop. The rest of this shop will take place on stream. This seems strange I know but there's a reason. It opens up everybody's efforts in the shop to everybody' discussion and also isolates each poem proffered.
Firstly : DO NOT post a poem on stream until I ask you to. This will enable each poem to receive its due consideration and receive feedback without being crowded out by a flood of other shop poems. Be sure to hit "Workshop" tab when entering poem and when making comments on a poem.
We begin by entering a poem, any poem, which is rich in stated imagery. Your own poem, a famous poem, a poem by a friend doesn't matter. Be sure if it's not a poem you wrote that you identify the poet.,
I'm gonna call on ya'll in reverse order of the participant's list as that's about as random a way as any. BTW try to not enter TOO long a poem so as to make it easier on the rest of us.
Now let me check participants list...........Jess (weirdelf) you are first up PS don't forget to put (implied imagery shop) next to poem title

author comment

here with their usual as well as what we think are their implied meanings. I'll start off

author comment

Green- usually used to denote color but could also denote something not yet ripe or inexperienced. Could also in proper context imply evil
Mossy- means covered in mossy, could also implied old, undisturbed, old fashioned or outdated (like Me)
Gay- nowadays usual use is to mean homosexual. In the old days it meant merry or care free.

NEXT

author comment

barren ...unproductive / desolate
echo ...reflection of sound / memory
............................................

raj (sublime_ocean)

my all time favourite and overflowing with imagery.
Kubla Khan By Samuel Taylor Coleridge (Implied Imagery Workshop)
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/poems/kubla-khan-samuel-taylor-coleridg...

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

I am happy you chose that poem, as dear to poetry as the Mona Lisa is to painting.
Are you asking us for any specific thing about the imagery of Coleridge poem or are we free to just discuss it as it just comes to us?

I'm looking up "implied imagery" in my poetry books and online, finding "implied metaphor" and "implied rhyme" but not "imagery". but I know what "imply" means and think it may mean here "to hint or suggest" something true, which can exist even if only in the imagination.

so if the goal here is "To get folks thinking about how the use of certain words and phrases can expand the message conveyed by poetry" there is much to discuss in this poem, I think many have done many a thesis on it!
Is there a certain aspect of the imagery we should discuss..or more general?

Eumolpus
I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing
than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance
ee cummings

Metonomy. It has a place in this workshop.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

Metonomy. It has a place in this workshop.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

metonymy has its place then Place it here lol. Please define and give an example.

author comment

so will copy and paste here-

I'd like to introduce a word seldom used in this context- metonymy. Not quite the same as symbols. I'll give you the dictionary definition-
"a figure of speech that consists of the use of the name of one object or concept for that of another to which it is related, or of which it is a part, as 'scepter' or crown for sovereignty,” or 'the bottle' for “strong drink,” or “count heads (or noses)” for count people."

Think of 'the long arm of the law', 'The pen is mightier than the sword' (two metonyms there), 'The GM car with many holes' meaning a fatuous, abusive and self-promoting person. 'The White House' stands in for the US government. 'Suits' to represent businessmen. It is a much more frequently used alternative to imagery than we imagine. cf
https://examples.yourdictionary.com/examples-of-metonymy.html

See, Stan? I think it is a very relevant concept.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

And their use can easily bring multiple images to mind

author comment

Doing so will hopefully help us get our heads around the difference between the two later.
Now as to finding a definition for implied imagery...that might be hard because I don't think this has Been defined before and seldom thought about. But if we can get to where we can use it on purpose it should add a lot of power to our writing. Perhaps another example might be a good thing...hmmmmm..."green winter woods". this might mean woods of evergreen trees. It might mean woods in the southern hemisphere in the winter months.

author comment

on google search with search words "poems based on implied imagery" one finds a lot of stuff, such as

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/love-poems-for-one-night-only-n...
.......................................

raj (sublime_ocean)

(as wordsmiths, not with your daughter)
Perhaps the greatest wordcrafters culturally ever.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

Please post your poem on stream now. Be sure to put (imagery shop) next to title and to hit workshop button at bottom of page. You can post any poem you want, yours(old or new) some known writer's or somebody's on site.......stan

author comment

Thanks I will

IRiz

Time to post your poem. Be sure to put( impiled imagery shop) next to title and punch workshop button at bottom.......stan

author comment
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