About workshops

Workshops on Neopoet are groups that meet for a certain period of time to focus on a certain aspect of poetry. Each workshop participant is asked to critique all the other poems submitted into a workshop. A workshop leader helps coordinate -- they set the agenda, give participants feedback on whether their submissions and critique are at they level expected of them, and after the workshop is over, give feedback to participants. 

To join a workshop, first find one that is of interest to you. Once you have found the right workshop (and verified that it is open -- you can find this out in the description below), you can apply to join the workshop.


Join the Neopoet online poetry workshop and community to improve as a writer, meet fellow poets, and showcase your work. Sign up, submit your poetry, and get started.

Deep analysis of poetry

Status: 
Program description/goal: 

Deep analysis of poetry- looking for more than the apparent words.

There is a great deal of resistance to "depth analysis" of poetry (often caused by unfortunate school experiences) however it can provide a great tool for insight in review and critique as well as honing our own skills in the writing of deep, rich, quality verse.

In this workshop each participant will submit a poem which the other participants will firstly attempt to describe/summarise as simply as possible the literal meaning. The comparisons will be revealing.

Second we will attempt to explain how the poem extends (or possibly limits) itself beyond simple literality through imagery, symbolism, association, subtext and references. We'll discuss these terms at the start of the workshop.

Finally a brief discussion of how well the poem works at different levels.

Time limits may constrain the number of poems we can cover so- first in first "probed" [grins, I can't guarantee no aliens will be involved but we won't abduct you]

Up to 10 participants. First come first in, anyone who misses a place will be reserved a place in succeeding workshops. Applicants to apply by Private Message to weirdelf or themoonman. A commitment of 14 days is required, you'll need to check in as often as possible.

ok, let's get started by discussing the terms imagery, symbolism, association, subtext and references. Pick one term and post 50-100 words on it here. Then we will go to specific poems.

Please do not submit a poem for the workshop until requested to do so and when posting them do not post them here but use "Submit a Poem" and select "Deep analysis of poetry" from the Workshop dropdown. Also please do not post intent until every participant has been given the chance to arrive at their own conclusions based on the poem itself. Also please do not edit your poem until everyone has given feedback, or we will be commenting on different poems!

cheers
Jess

Leader: Jess (weirdelf)
Moderator(s): Richard (themoonman)
Anna (Kailashana)
Michelle (michellek)

Level of expertise: Open to all

Length: 
24 days
Number of participants (limit): 
10 people
Skill level: 
Date: 
Monday, August 1, 2011 to Thursday, August 25, 2011
Short description: 
Deep analysis of poetry is a great tool for insight in review and critique, and helps hone our own skills in the writing of deep, rich, quality verse.

Comments

I would like to do this, Jess,

Joe

you're supposed to send me or richard a private message to enroll,
but a nod's as good as a wink to an old mate,
you're in.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

“Symbolism is something you can see that has taken on
a meaning beyond what the object actually is. For instance,
when you think of a symbol, think of something that is tangible,
something you can hold or touch with your hand. If it is
something you can not touch, eliminate it as a possible symbol.

Symbol - an image loaded with significance beyond literal definition;
suggestive rather than definitive.

1. natural symbols - symbols recognized as standing for
something in particular even by people from different cultures.
(Rain usually stands for fertility or the renewal of life;
a forest--mental darkness or chaos; a mountain--stability, etc.).
2. conventional symbols - symbols which people have agreed to
accept as standing for something other than themselves (a poem
about the cross would probably be about Christianity; similarly,
the rose has long been a symbol for love).

I question "something you can touch". The other senses can provide strong symbols as well.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

but normally, anything you can see, smell, hear or feel, can also
be touched. One can smell the rain before it's there, but then ...
but you are right, one can see the city sleeping, but you can't really
touch it, there would be a lot of references that wouldn't fit into the
"touch" category. hmmmm

thanks Jess, I'm already enjoying this workshop

Thanks, Jess.

Joe

care to write a little about one of them?

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

Or intertextualty is borrowing a well know theme, motif, line, perspective etc., of a former work (by another poet) and alluding to it in your poem to help define, elaborate, or develop your own idea or image further by having a 'reference' to an older (usually well-known work) that already defined or established said idea.

Think of referencing like quoting or paraphrasing in an essay, you only use the information if it is COMPLETELY relevant to your argument AND will FURTHER/ELABORATE the idea you are trying to express. You only use very reliable sources who know what their doing and do it well, otherwise your message will come across weak, disorganized, and most importantly unoriginal.

The Modernist poets such as T.S. Elliot and Ezra Pound referenced/alluded heavily in their poems, The Wasteland (Elliot) and The Cantos (Pound). With these texts though it is a nice example of if you reference obscure texts the meaning of the work can become muddled, esoteric and frustrating to read. Elliot and Pound did this deliberately to make a point in High Modernism, so don't be afraid or intimidated by the poems if you look them up, just read and try to see how reference can empower a work.

In my recent poem "Left handed" I used the line
"I fart in your general direction"
which refers to the stream of abuse and invective delivered by the Frenchmen in the castle in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail"
Many poets also use musical references and other popular culture.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

Nah you can reference any medium:). I was just trying to keep to poetry:p. I often reference lines from novels myself:).

What a person references(book, poem, speech, ect.) is not nearly as important as the fact the the reference is well known. Does no good to refer to some work so arcane that most readers won't know what you are talking about. As example there is a well known sports humorist name McManus ( well known to his readers). If I were to reference the troll he often cites in his work, would anybody here know what I referred to?..........stan

Some classical references could be easily looked up, especially in these days of google and wiki, and a knowledge of them would enrich the reader and the reading.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

And that brings it down to a very important question. Do we write for general public or only for those who would bother to look up an unknown reference?.............It is my belief that most casual readers will not bother and that most readers are casual............stan

Interestingly, true, I'm afraid, Stan. I read some of my poems of to Barry, one in particular he said he didn't like, well discussion was entered and it seems he didn't get a reference to *beehive collapse (disorder)* in one of my poems.

That meant all the difference. It seems to me that rather than dismiss a poem we don't understand, (I've been saying this for years) we're on the freakin' computer.... google up the reference we don't understand, learn something new... add a new word, a new thought, a new name of author/play/story/place/thing one might not have had the privy of knowing/understanding before having had the luck or luxury to add it to our repertoire.

~A

~A

I have no patience with people who won't look up the meaning of a word, let alone a reference.

I don't write for the willfully ignorant.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

This is very interesting because this the argument the Modernists encountered with referencing in poetry. So you had people like Ezra Pound and Elliot who wanted to keep poetry something exclusively enjoyed and understood only by highly educated (literary) people, whereas other poets like William Carlos Williams wanted poetry to be universal and understood by any reader, so he avoided references.

It would be interesting to try find examples of compromise between poetry being exclusive or universal in relation to references.

more than Elliot or Pound, because his work depended on rather obscure references, rather than using them to enrichen.

I guess one easy way is to use pop culture references, but there will still be people who don't get them.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

And the problem with pop references is they don't carry down the years and although obvious to begin with they eventually become obscure........stan

Now we get to the nitty gritty of poetry, Michelle. Imo Bukowski does it. He writes of the ordinary, raises it to extraordinary and the reader is left spellpound, enchanted, bewildered by a *low life* who has the ability to write of the immeasurable beauty in all of human existence. Both the poor, uneducated, low class and the erudite upper eschelon (if honest) knows in his heart of hearts that there is no difference but what we pretend (is). We are such arrogant creatures, poets even more so sometimes when poetry is made-to-fit a certain genre.

Bluebird

there's a bluebird in my heart that
wants to get out
but I'm too tough for him,
I say, stay in there, I'm not going
to let anybody see
you.
there's a bluebird in my heart that
wants to get out
but I pour whiskey on him and inhale
cigarette smoke
and the whores and the bartenders
and the grocery clerks
never know that
he's
in there.

there's a bluebird in my heart that
wants to get out
but I'm too tough for him,
I say,
stay down, do you want to mess
me up?
you want to screw up the
works?
you want to blow my book sales in
Europe?
there's a bluebird in my heart that
wants to get out
but I'm too clever, I only let him out
at night sometimes
when everybody's asleep.
I say, I know that you're there,
so don't be
sad.
then I put him back,
but he's singing a little
in there, I haven't quite let him
die
and we sleep together like
that
with our
secret pact
and it's nice enough to
make a man
weep, but I don't
weep, do
you?

Imagery is the use of words in describing a sight , sound or feeling. I have found it is best done by adding as much detail as possible. When done correctly it can transport the reader to the exact spot that the writer wishes him/her to be. An example of the impact that simply worded imagery can have can be seen in Frost's "Road Less Traveled". The poem on the surface is about a simple decision on which fork in a road to choose and its future consequences. But the poem's description of surroundings and authors state of mind is what elevates it to being the true classic it is. As a mundane example, which is more pleasing : The lake had ripples or the water's surface was bejeweled as lowering sun's light reflected off small waves? .........stan

you have that uncanny knack f creating images through your words and detailing that's for sure...

raj (sublime_ocean)

here, Stan and I've just worked it out.
"transport the reader to the exact spot that the writer wishes".
That's all well and good if the poem is just a descriptive piece, but what we want to look at is how the imagery transports the reader to the exact IDEA that the writer wishes. The poem you refer to, The Road Not Taken, I think, actually offers few visual clues, perhaps the "yellow" wood implies fall, someone just past middle life?
To where it bent in the undergrowth; [is "bent" an omen or instinctual warning?]
Because it was grassy and wanted wear, [individualism?]
the poem is about choices made, no way back, regrets.

You see how we can use these things?
With the warning of course, that sometimes a wood is just a wood.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

hmmmmmmm you have nicely analyzed and elaborated about the essence of this workshop...

raj (sublime_ocean)

Where the writer wants the reader to be can describe a place or state of mind. I usually send folks to places but occasionally try to transport them to an idea also. Frost's genius in my opinion ( when it comes to imagery) is his ability to describe with spare use of words. Bent in the undergrowth....I have always thought this intent was to show how trying to ascertain results of choices becomes more difficult the farther "down the road" one looks. One short poem containing at minimum 3 and maybe 4messages. I'm lucky to convey 2 once in a great while lol......stan

I was reading up some background information on literary critics, in order to comment with somethng relevant. The one quote that stays with me, precisely because you've countered it so well here, - CRITICISM COMES EASIER THAN CRAFTSMANSHIP. Zeuxis c. 400BC
An exceptionally cogent and in-depth point you have made, befitting someone in your role as moderator!
Thanks for setting the bar 'up high' ;)
Boni

Bonitaj

“Mythopoesis” is the creation of one’s own singular mythology, in which both the conventional denotation of a word or its conventional symbolic connotation takes n a completely new meaning. This new “ symbolism” unfolds as the work progresses and a recurring code of associations is established.

In order for this sort of symbolism to work, it requires an audience to already
be familiar, which is fine for this venue, or even a book, but will be lost on any
new and unfamiliar readers (depending on how vague the association my be).

but, it is a very interesting concept

Yes, very true. I wonder if the symbolism can be establikshed in one poem.

Joe

I would think such is possible but only in a poem of near epic length. Not much chance in a Haiku lol.......stan

That sounds really interesting. I want to try this (and fail miserably:p)!

It's almost like rewriting symbols, I haven't seen it done before, I've seen mythologies rewritten, but symbols... this is going to be fun:)!

William Blake. See FEARFUL SYMMETRY, by Northrop Frye .

Joe :)

in one poem Blake transforms the tiger from a symbol of predatory savagery to a symbol of the "creators" handiwork.
http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/the-tyger/
(poemhunter is a great online resource for poetry)

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

Subtext from Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subtext (Add poetry to the list)

Subtext or undertone is content of a book, play, musical work, film, video game, or television series which is not announced explicitly by the characters (or author) but is implicit or becomes something understood by the observer of the work as the production unfolds. Subtext can also refer to the thoughts and motives of the characters which are only covered in an aside. Subtext can also be used to imply controversial subjects without specifically alienating people from the fiction, often through use of metaphor.

Subtext is content underneath the spoken dialogue. Under dialogue, there can be conflict, anger, competition, pride, showing off, or other implicit ideas and emotions. Subtext is the unspoken thoughts and motives of characters—what they really think and believe. Subtext just beneath the surface of dialogue makes life interesting, but it can also cause people to be misunderstood.

The author David Baboulene, in his practical academic work on Story Theory — The Story Book — [1] defines subtext as "the result of any form of gap in knowledge between any of the participants in a story; for example, between the author and a character, between two characters or between the audience and at least one character."

An outstanding example of this occurs in Superman. Lois Lane has just met, and taken an instant dislike to, Clark Kent. "Any more at home like you?" "Uh, not really, no", Clark replies.

Subtext is the inferred, rather than direct, meaning behind human interaction. In art subtext is a very useful technique to explore and experiment with.

Eg. Usually after a first date when the guy has walked the girl home: 'would you like to come upstairs for some coffee?'

Sorry was trying to think of the most cliched example.

An interesting exercise is to try write something completely in subtext.

Eg. Instead of above, the girl says 'do you want to have sex?'

Another bad example: a large breasted woman is holding melons and the man says 'nice melons'. Just writing the subtext for this is hilarious: 'Nice tits'.

Hegelian dialectics.

Was a genius:).

Why is it necessary to use a reference ..can a participant not just choose an image and build the poem around it?...

raj (sublime_ocean)

Using a reference isn't necessary, it's just a tool that has been used
in writing for a long time, just one of the terms we were going over before
starting this session.

thanks for asking

thanks for responding...would i be right in believing that ..simply put...the theme of the workshop would be to select an image...and create a poem by working with such image or around it?...

raj (sublime_ocean)

This workshop is about the critique, one can find imagery,
symbolism and association in most poetry, so the poem itself
will not be limited to any specific subject or have any direction
given to the poet, but we are going over some specific terms to
give an edge to the critiquing side and to hopefully all learn a little
something by having a meaningful conversation before getting started.

thanks for your interest

Richard

Ok..i will keep tracking till i find out about the workshop theme and the outline you will be coming up with before starting the workshop....

raj (sublime_ocean)

raj, there will only be one guideline for poems posted to the workshop- that the poet believes that it has depths of meaning beyond the literal. The poem doesn't even have to be written for the workshop, it can have already been posted on Neopoet, you would only have to edit it to put it in the workshop stream by using the workshop drop-down and selecting Deep analysis of poetry.

At the moment we are just discussing the terms of reference for depth analysis. Soon we will look at participants individual poems.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

Thank you Jess for the clarification...it would certainly be challenging ...raj..

raj (sublime_ocean)

"He lay back on the pillow and lit a cigarette"
What do you assume has just happened? This is similar to subtext in a way, the difference being that association tends to provide individual images or ideas whereas subtext tends to inform the whole work.

The way I use subtext in critique is by identifying assumptions based in the writers ideology/belief system and often challenging them. This gets me in a world of shit with religious types and right-wing or neo-liberal ideologues. It is however a prime imperative of critique. A poet should be aware of exactly what they are saying at every level.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

What we are trying to do in this initial discussion is come to some agreement on a set of terms to use as tools for the depth analysis of poetry. The list was not complete, Joe's addition of mythopoesis was invaluable. Any other additions would also be welcomed. I considered adding semiotics but it's been my experience that semioticians tend to spend more time arguing about what semiotics mean than using the tool to do anything. With the notable exception of Umberto Eco.

It seems to me what you are doing here is un-defining the tools, so that they become virtually useless. We don't want to go with "gut feelings" or "inner senses" we want to be able to talk lucidly about what a poem means beyond its literal wording. This will involve treading on some toes and speaking boldly, without hedging or apologism. That's why it is a Shark Pool workshop.

Let's keep that in mind and get to the guts of things, with a scalpel or even a sledgehammer if necessary.

Actually where a rose is not necessarily a rose,
a triangle is a triangle is a triangle, even in poetry.

At the same time I do appreciate that we can not dis-mantle and reconstruct a poem as one can an engine, and the pluralism you raise is valid, as long as it doesn't hinder us from making bold statements of interpretation.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

Perhaps we could discuss or relate semiotics in regards to Gertrude Stein's work, particularly Rose is a rose, is a rose is a rose (which you referenced earlier:)). Use her idea of semantic poetry to experiment and critique on?

although it is opening a huge can of worms. When is something a sign rather than a symbol? Remember that her most famous quote "Rose is a rose, is a rose, is a rose" is largely misinterpreted as a remonstrance for literalism whereas in context she was referring to three quite different uses of "rose".

Perhaps the most useful precept of semiotics is acknowledging the dialectic between text and reader.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

Here it goes,

Associations. We use these to validate and descibe. A way to communicate by associating it with something someone already knows or understands. Hemm Here is something to add to a serious coversations, the importance of the visual in poetry..

Visual presentation

Even before the advent of printing, the visual appearance of poetry often added meaning or depth. Acrostic poems conveyed meanings in the initial letters of lines or in letters at other specific places in a poem. In Arabic, Hebrew and Chinese poetry, the visual presentation of finely calligraphed poems has played an important part in the overall effect of many poems.

With the advent of printing, poets gained greater control over the mass-produced visual presentations of their work. Visual elements have become an important part of the poet's toolbox, and many poets have sought to use visual presentation for a wide range of purposes. Some Modernist poets have made the placement of individual lines or groups of lines on the page an integral part of the poem's composition. At times, this complements the poem's rhythm through visual caesuras of various lengths, or creates juxtapositions so as to accentuate meaning, ambiguity or irony, or simply to create an aesthetically pleasing form.[61] In its most extreme form, this can lead to concrete poetry or asemic writing.[62]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poetry

Interesting workshop,

Julie

D.D.

Chat Rocks!

Click on the chat link at the top of the page and launch the new Live Neo chat! Fun, friends and poetry. It's the best way to get to know the Neo family and site! Can't wait to see you there!

I believe you are talking about what I call form punctuation. This is similar to form of concrete poetry but instead of the entire poem taking on the form of the subject, varying the form of the structure at strategic places enhances the impact of a particular word of line. This is most commonly done by isolating the word or line in a verse with space above and below, but can also be done by "indenting" the start of a line. I like to use this type punctuation in descriptive free verse, but alas the site doesn't presently allow such without double spacing lines which dilutes impact. Visual presentation can actually place limited imagery directly on the page.........stan

While here at Neo it isn't necessarily the end all of a poem,
if you submit poetry to any publisher without correct punctuation,
it will most likely be passed over, not that it is everyone's intention
to become published.

a lot has been said which makes me believe that this workshop is meant for those who have a great and in depth knowledge about poetry..its evolution over long periods of time ..so obviously this workshop would come out with some seriously intelligent poetry...it would be a good opportunity to read and ponder over it for an amateur like me which would be a value addition and worthwhile...i therefore look forward to the its launch and the stuff which would be put up here by the participants...good luck to all those who are at the helm of it and those too who are participating in it...

raj (sublime_ocean)

If shop were limited to those with great knowledge of poetry, I would not have been let in lol(but not too loudly)........stan

Anna's poem is where can a poet go?-
http://new.neopoet.com/node/where-can-poet-go-shark-workshop-2-deep-anal...
Stan's poem is Bridges-
http://new.neopoet.com/node/bridges-shark-pool-analysis
Go to 'em!
Waiting for Joe.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

Deep analysis
I will attempt to write a poem of this sort. Though I am not sure of where to start or what to write about I'm looking forward to learning from the Shark Pool

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka.

Neopoet Community

There will only be one guideline for poems posted to the workshop- that the poet believes that it has depths of meaning beyond the literal. The poem doesn't even have to be written for the workshop, it can have already been posted on Neopoet, you would only have to edit it to put it in the workshop stream by using the workshop drop-down and selecting Deep analysis of poetry.

You are welcome to participate without posting a poem.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

I have been reading the cOmments and have learn a lot already
This s an exciting workshop for me. I am more than happy to participate . I like learning new ideas

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka.

Neopoet Community

Please do not submit a poem for the workshop until requested to do so and when posting them do not post them here but use "Submit a Poem" and select "Deep analysis of poetry" from the Workshop dropdown. Also please do not post intent until every participant has been given the chance to arrive at their own conclusions based on the poem itself.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

http://new.neopoet.com/node/candy-store-shark-pool-analysis.

You can see them all at the right of this pGE.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

In particular-
In this workshop each participant will submit a poem which the other participants will firstly attempt to describe/summarise as simply as possible the literal meaning. The comparisons will be revealing.
and
please do not post intent until every participant has been given the chance to arrive at their own conclusions based on the poem itself. Also please do not edit your poem until everyone has given feedback, or we will be commenting on different poems!

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

From Richard, Ian and Michelle, let's hear what you think people.

Links at right of page.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

Joe is not well and has asked me to post this comment for him-

This workshop was invaluable. learned to "balance" my stanzas as w ell as keep the cadence flowing smoothly. Every write needs the eyes of another to see what it should be.
Joe
Geremiah

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

I think that the main lesson learned here is that there is no magic "formula" to conveying secondary or more meanings in poetry. It just takes a lot of thought and hard work. I think the reason so many poems I write with intent to convey multiple meanings fail in doing so might be due to a lack of a "key" line or stanza which unlocks those other meanings. As an example, in Frost's "Road Less Traveled" it is the final stanza in which he predicts a changed future due to choice made which leads reader to consider it is not just a poem about a road forking in the woods.................stan

Nicely analyzed Stan...

i feel reading such poetry was having a double dip ice cream...

raj (sublime_ocean)

Is simply this! Critiquing others' work is far more difficult, if one adheres to attempts at uncovering what their core intent is. Working with this template, it becomes easier to compose something from the inside out, using various poetic tools - as discussed above. This exercise has enabled me to mirror my own experience by inverting it.
Thanks
Boni

Bonitaj

Sometimes the reader will take away a meaning quite different from the poet's intent. This is not always a bad thing or a failure of writing, sometimes people have found things in my work that I didn't know were there, and I was grateful. Although at other times, of course, people have taken away quite contrary meanings and it has shat me to tears of frustration.

The real point, which underlies my passionate love of poetry, is that it is anti-propertarian. Once you put your poem out there it no longer belongs to you, it belongs to your reader.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

You are spot on while saying "once you put your poetry out there it no longer belongs to you, it belongs to the reader"...it is like china clay one never knows what it will end up as in the hands of those who mold it..some may make angels ..others phantoms and yet others just inanimate objects....

raj (sublime_ocean)

Though I couldn't participate as I would have to the workshop. this was learning experience I found valuable in my learning and knowledge of poetry. I actualy wrote a couple of poems based on what I learn here. It has helped me much to analysis and critique poems more confidently

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka.

Neopoet Community

I believe Boni has said it all, by learning to go deeper in
critique, one learns how to manage their muse, get past
the heart, and write meaningful lines that reach out.

thank you Jess, I enjoyed this workshop, you have preformed
an excellent job as leader.

Richard

In my experience poetry is the result of having lived life from the inside out rather than outside in. We are always evolving as poets as more of the inside reaches out, and the outside is assimilated in and as poems we write.

We have to learn to be silent enough to listen to all that speaks to us..... with colours, sounds, smells, feelings, tastes... Put them together in an experience, shed light on them with our individualization....

Someone somewhere will surely pick up this ivory we leave behind and carve new meanings.

~A

very well said Anna...

raj (sublime_ocean)

Helped me brush up on my critiquing skills and getting more acquainted with everyone:).

Almost like a shaman sitting amongst the inner circle of a tribe - having worked with you all on this project! Thanks Jess, for running a fabulous workshop!
Regards
Boni

Bonitaj

A challenge and a joy.

Hope to see you back for my next one, something completely different, the nuts and bolts and music of our art- meter.

I'll run up the syllabus very soon.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

Indeed.

Life is a gift, poetry is a privilege that keeps on giving.

~A

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