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Inauthentic, a cupie doll to the winner (To Serve Poet workshop 08/07/14)

Yahooo!

Woohoo!

Yeehaaa!

Yobs yell to be sure
so everyone knows they are having fun
don't they know it themselves?

The bottom lip quivers,
perhaps pouting a tad too much.
A quick sly glance
betrays,
that the lady needs to know
her grief is seen
in-between
sly glances

You care so much
for the plight of refugees,
for Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual/Transsexuals,
for the environment
and must be seen to be
the most loving
mother, father, daughter, son,
and for all that is seen to be good.

These folk protest too much,
"Clean from my hand? No; this my hand will rather
make the multitudinous seas incarnadine,
With your lies.

Show us, not tell us
your oh so certain lack of self.

Review Request (Intensity): 
I want the raw truth, feel free to knock me on my back
Last few words: 
Have you ever caught yourself peeking around to check that your response is appropriate, in any situation? I've edited this a lot. I wonder if it works now. May thanks for all the invaluable feeedback, I think I saved the baby from that blood red bathwater.
Editing stage: 
Workshop: 

Comments

A straight from the cuff punch delivered by you in this satire. A different take on the refugees for whom generally there is profound sympathy. If I have perceived it correctly your poem obliquely draws attention to a possibility that a good number of the refugees may actually be feeling good to be protected and provided with food, shelter, clothing which in their free life they were deprived of and therefore internally feel happy, hence the jubilation at the start of the poem and an attempt to hide it to make the world belive that they are in plight.. i may be way off in perceiving the theme accurately...

A few observations which for me affected the flow:-

- needs improvement with punctuation
- the space between the lines "as to why" and "you need others to affirm" seems inappropriate and should be connected.
- in verse 2 if the reference is to "quivering lips" the next line "perhaps protruding too much" would be wrong because how can the lips protrude? would "pout" be more correct?
- in Line 4 of the concluding verse perhaps "self esteem" would read better than just "esteem"

since the poem portrays a make believe attempt of refugees, the title Inauthentic is good...

this poem has made me think if the refugees are indeed in plight or better off...

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

could be so completely at odds with any concept of what my intentions and content were. It places me in the position of challenging my own belief that the poem, once written, belongs to the reader and not the poet. Thank you, Raj, the challenge is acknowledged. This is not to suggest your interpretation is wrong, it is just wildly different. I wonder which readers will take which interpretation?

To me the poem is a savage indictment of the inability of people to authenticly express their feeling as they are taught to express them through social media, reality TV and soap operas. In the age of camera phones many people are constantly "performing" to the camera.

Thank you for the advice on punctuation and wording, though esteem is what I meant here.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Thanks for elaborating on the conception of your poem, I now see differently than how I had perceived it. That's the reason I had mentioned in my comment the possibility of my perception being way off target which I now see it was ...lol...

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

I have made substantial revisions.
Please tell me what you think now.
To be harsh, I really can't imagine how you came to your original critique, even without revisions, ecept that you made assumptions about me, instead of my poetry. A forgiveable error, we do learn each other's body of work in this place.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

I do concede that the assumptions in my critique were off target and I stand corrected. However I was honest about them based on my perception.

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

or your perhaps your feelings about my critique. I don't feel you are being honest.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Sorry the children borrowed my mind for a while.
I found that your piece was a little disjointed.
Where the first stanza carries to the second well not stanzas but breaks in the word flow.
I myself feel that the use of abbreviations in a poem are a no, no, I don't expect they are in my dictionary.
The use of those long words once again it raises a question who are you protesting to or talking to, is it the 30% that went to the higher schools, or a piece that 100% of the readers could understand.
Sorry but this was not one of your good pieces.
Back to you young Jess, I await your reply
Yours as always, Ian.

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

Between you and Raj I feel the poem has failed, which surprised me because I rather liked it.

Perhaps if I explain my intent others might be able to help me improve it.

I was trying to say that many people seem to be acting the way they think they should act, instead of authentically expressing their emotions. I blame social media, reality TV and TV soap operas.

I perceive people sneaking glances at others to see if their grief is being appreciated. People try too hard to have fun by yelling weeeehaaa,

People try to make themselves appear caring, loving human through posting things about for the plight of refugees, for Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual/Transsexuals, for the environment
and must be seen to be
the most loving
mother, father, daughter, son,
and all that matters is being seen being good.

Fakery and phoniness everywhere, everywhere.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Would Ian or others need to wait in a queue till all participants are done with the critique of your poem?

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

They just need to be posted in the right place.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Thank you for this clarification..

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

You see that was a point in my critique, me being old and cranky forgot the way to use the workshop, as the use of words sometimes are only easily understood by a few.
Don't tell me there is a spell checker on line easily accessible, I know but you then have to remember what the words mean lol.
Thanks young Jess this workshop may open Pandora's box, Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

Your theme was excellent and these things need to be spoken of with care and honesty..
Trouble with most of the world it has lost sight of a reason for being, and as you rightly point out by greed and misrepresentation of the average persons interest.
Many times (Too Many) I have tears in my eyes for the inhumanity of this world, also have tears for those that are suffering, it is a wonder that I can see at all.
Your poetry is needed to jolt people into seeing these things, never feel that your work is not up to it.
I have always said that to change one word is to write a new piece, this is where critique has to be meaningful and correct, I find that to critique is one of the hardest things we are asked to do.
If I stood in your shoes it would be easier for me to suggest changes, but as I don't, I can only talk of things from my way of looking at them.
I stand by the abbreviations not being good, to me, and the odd long word that could be easier on the eye, the rest is yours to read and arrange as you see fit.
Take care young Jess, I would like to see your self critique, on this one it would help.
Yours as always, Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

and any other critiques and suggestions.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

you know I'm not good at this so this is me challenging myself. From reading others critiques and your replies, I have the understanding that this piece screams of hypocrisy and people's inability to portray their real feelings on their own but beginning the poem with three lines of shouting seems a bit too much for me. Maybe its just my perception. Maybe you could replace them to verses instead of just shouting. I'll write it like this

Yahoo! People shouting out loud
Real feelings veiled by actions
exaggerated in their pretense

Then again, this is just me. Let's hear what others have to say.

Alid

I know this is not easy and requires courage to have the "temerity" to suggest changes to something as deeply personal as a person's poem. I applaud you. This is exactly what this workshop is about!

Your suggested changes are very effective and in many ways clearer and more effective. I would use them verbatim but for the tricky issue of "showing" rather than "telling". Do you get the difference? I want to create the effect of what is happening rather than tell my reader what is happening.

Thank you, sir, for your thoughtfulness, creativity and courage.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Let me preface by stating I have read no other comments. I will circle back to them.

Although the title is descriptive of the poem, it doesn't lend anything else to the poem. Titles that may dig deeper might be "Simulated", "Ornamental Minds" or "Cultured Response".

There is also a problem with the language, or perhaps the perspective. It is not consistent throughout. I understand that the character doing the writing is a poet and they are attempting to seek an answer to a difficult question, but the word selection from beginning to end changes. If it changed per stanza, I would be okay with that, showing different levels of intelligence, contempt, pity or whatever emotion is trying to be gleaned. But it doesn't. We go from simpleton to intellect instantly in S5.

Why the need to state that "Poets" are seeking answers? Isn't the poem from the point-of-view of the poet already? Why include all poets? Do we all seek the same answer or answers? I think different language could have been used here to make a smoother fundamental shift in the poem.

In the process of including the poet, has the writer not also made themselves "inauthentic"? Or is that the point?

Scott

Scott

that was a very valuable piece of critique.
The rest? Fuck me dead, it invalidates the whole piece without a major re-write. Which I am prepared to do because this is an important work to me,
thank you, Scott for the brutal honesty I needed.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

The poem was meant to be in three distinct voices- the 'try-hard' yobbo, the women unable to express her feelings except through what she has see on tv, and the social activist who tries to be correct in all things.

A singular failure. No amount of re-writes can fix this. I will attack the same syndrome again in another poem with an entirely new approach.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Not certain the new title encapsulates the poem in its entirety. Seems to narrow the focus.

Thanks for the explanation about the narrative.

Scott

Scott

but I like the new title, Feeling it adds a certain irony.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

I was happy with this work. I got some very good impressions from it.
As to the technicalities: I felt that the lines referring to poets,
didn't belong. Are you guilty of the very thing you question?
You need an [r] on the end of the word [you] in the line:
[you eye-contactless]. ~ Gee

Please acknowledge critique and comments.
They are a vital part of our community!
Critique or comment today!

and "r" added,
thanks mate.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Since this is one of those poems which will likely be interpreted many ways by many people I'll omit comment on content and go straight on to alternatives :
Delete last line of stanza 2
S-3, l-3 all the labels need to be plural
........l-8 try....to be seen being greedy
S-4, these folk protest too much (simplifies and clarifies)
S-5, l-2 try.....the difficult answers
last stanza, l-1 change shells to facades ( gives emphasis to the fakery)
....................l-2 change you to your
As usual, use what if anything you think helpful and discard the rest.........stan

At most add it to the end of the previous line.
S-3, l-3 all the labels need to be plural. No, it was originally GLBT, but Ian.T didn't understand that so I spelled it out, plurals not necessary.
........l-8 try....to be seen being greedy. What I am suggesting in this stanza could easily be mis-understood by conservatives, but to liberals it is portraying themselves as the very best of people, whatever they actually are. I did an edit that might help clarify.
S-4, these folk protest too much (simplifies and clarifies). Good! Thank you.
S-5, l-2 try.....the difficult answers. ?
last stanza, l-1 change shells to facades ( gives emphasis to the fakery). No, shells is stronger, their personalities have been eviscerated.

Brilliant critique, Stan. Thankyou.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Why delete the last line of stanza 2? ...I thought brevity in free verse was valued and I don't see that that particular line adds anything to the poem. But that's only one person's opinion. line 8 ...leave it to you to bring liberal vs conservative into the conversation lol.
S-5, l-2 being lazy, I used....instead of repeating entire line since only the end was affected by suggestion.
last stanza line 1 I see what you're talking about but still think the mendacity aspect still needs to be included somehow. Bet you didn't think I knew what mendacity is lol.......stan

PS Of course it's Your poem and I just throw out ideas and if even a small percentage of them are helpful I feel pretty good.

it's when it's males dash about trying to prove their macho through uncharacteristically subtle lies. [grins]

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

I beg to differ on your explanation of "Mendacity"
I would have thought you at least would have known that it is all the repairs needed to bring a city up to the modern concept of a city???
Yours Sparrow Te He

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

that Neopoet is going to introduce the death penalty for punning?
We are both doomed.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Its four am and I am getting noddy I have taken copies of yours and Ian's poems to work on today I will post my suggestions and thoughts tonight, I have a few ideas

love Jayne xxx

("Always and Forever") - (Never lose a holy curiosity.-Albert Einstein)

A fully grown lady off to bed,
on one side is Noddy,
and the other side Big ears LOL
Sleep well x

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

I have picked up on the proper phrase half way through the read. Politically Correct.. a phrase that to this day still makes me vomit in my mouth. Right up there with Affirmative Action. Nowadays it is much worse, no one is critical for fear of rocking the boat. There is no discernment socially. Everyone (even the leeches) are excepted with open arms, no one questioning their motives.

Sorry I am late to the roasting. But I like the come along edits.

In ink,
David.

you can be a complete and utter nong sometimes. Haven't you realised that though it can be over-used and abused "political correctness" is one of the most powerful forces for positive social change in the world today? Change the language and you change the thinking. How many people, even amongst the most bigotted and ignorant, don't think twice now before using words like nigger, slut and faggot these days?
Language changes our thinking, changing the language through political awareness has had an enormously beneficial effect. The major opponents of "political correctness" are those who choose to cling to their bigotry and ignorance.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

the states is ugly. So is the phrase "Respect your privilege." It is something people use to stiff others with their agenda.
It controls people into using baby language in public. Those who polluted it are right wing fundies.

I normally hear the right wing fundies blaming the left wing for political correctness.

Usually, except in its most extreme forms it is actually objected to by people who want the right of free speech, specifically hate speech.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

even hate speech has a right. But I don't like it. Allowing people to speak freely makes them more candid, and far more readable then if they are groomed by PC culture.

I sit here transfixed afraid to move,
do I favour the right wing or the left wing.
I tried this the other day,
ended up flying in circles.
I have learned from many years past.
That if I use both the left, and right correctly,
I don't fly up my own asshole lol,

Love you my Elf,
Yours Sparrow

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

I have made a few suggestions I worked on it tonight

Yahooo!

Woohoo!

Yeehaaa!
I would space the above like this.... it needs some space to yell and be heard
on the page
yobs yell to be sure --- I would remove the 'the'
no-one
could be having more fun. --- rearranging it like this and removing the 'that'

The bottom lip quivers,
perhaps pouting a tad too much.
A quick sly glance
betrays,
that the lady needs to know
her grief is seen
in-between --- I really cant fault this stanza I like it as is

They care so much
for the plight of refugees,
for Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual/Transsexuals,
for the environment
and must be seen to be
the most loving
mother, father, daughter, son,
and for all that is seen to being good. --- this is an excellent stanza

These folk protest too much.

ask why
you need others to affirm the shell--- I would change shells to shell
eviscerated by your social media --- and rearrange these three lines
trite,
oh so uncertain sense of self,
stolen by lack
of eye contact,
body language,
tone of voice,
the ninety nine percent
of human contact.

This is an excellent poem, their humanity is being (using your word) eviscerated
by social media we are growing a generation that uses a medium that lacks
most of the human contact that really helps us know someone

I have met people on the net and then met them in person and it’s like a whole other
person to get to know

I have made a few suggestions I really can’t find much fault with this except for the odd
word here or there and the rearranging of a few lines

I think that presentation of a poem, is important I know people who don’t put much stock
in it...I really liked the effect you were going for I just made a few suggested tweaks use them or not.. I maybe off with my critique I did the best I could under the circumstances.

love Jayne x

("Always and Forever") - (Never lose a holy curiosity.-Albert Einstein)

You have hit some important points that I will definitely consider in my revisions.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

The subject is well reasoned and accurately fashioned. I would draw your attention to the last line in verse 3.
"and for all that is seen to being good". I must be reading it wrongly, but should "is" not be "are". The plural should be used after the first line with "THEY care". Perhaps the last line of this verse could be e.g. "and for all that are seen to be the good." Repetition of "seen" might be best avoided. Or am I being too pedantic.
p.s. it doesn't rhyme or scan.

Regards
Ian

TIME FLIES LIKE AN ARROW, BUT FRUIT FLIES LIKE A BANANA

A poet from Oz (call him weird)
submitted a poem (how we cheered)
But though everyone tried
To find meaning inside
No two thought the same (as we feared)

TIME FLIES LIKE AN ARROW, BUT FRUIT FLIES LIKE A BANANA

is " it doesn't rhyme or scan." True, and though I typically write free verse this poem could well benefit from their inclusion. It would take a totally re-write and I will seriously consider doing it.

Thank you for your invaluable feedback.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

really impressed with what has occurred here! This poem went from being alright, to great! you have [shown] us exactly what you mean! Good critique can make great poetry! You argued the point on some things and accepted honest. open suggestions in other places. You then took it all as a whole and made your work much better. This is what critique is all about. ~ Gee

Please acknowledge critique and comments.
They are a vital part of our community!
Critique or comment today!

to a great one. Thanks mate.
Poetry is my life and if I can improve one of my poems, or better still, help someone else improve one of theirs well... that is the line from nihilism to life for me.
Thank you.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

You have done some great work on this one hun, I am going to slowly find my way back around over the next couple of weeks but this was a great start to my wanderings, I am glad my suggestions were of use, hope your well, btw I tried to ring you a couple of weeks ago, I will try again in the next couple of days, I have lots to tell you :)

love Jayne x

("Always and Forever") - (Never lose a holy curiosity.-Albert Einstein)

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