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- friend or foe -
a fighting foe at edge of camp
I see your form
then not
ephemeral you are my friend
your shadow slinks
on past
at first I'd swear you don't exist
cerebral twist
a plot
horizon's heated bawdy brawl
the loser is
outcast
such fighting fists of underground
your deathly stare
decreed
at times I'd glimpse a spicy scent
anathema to
my sphere
and then one day you cornered me
defeat would I
concede
before I knew a roar erupts
an impact so
severe
go on ignore emotion true
defend this frail
veneer
embrace my rage with limits safe
release at last
from fear
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shaun-walton/6696725555/in/faves-51029280@N05/
Review Request (Intensity):
I appreciate moderate constructive criticism
Review Request (Direction):
What did you think of my title?
How was my language use?
What did you think of the rhythm or pattern or pacing?
How does this theme appeal to you?
How was the beginning/ending of the poem?
Is the internal logic consistent?
Last few words:
I try to be succinct and not long-winded
I also want to make sense so that someone isn't scratching their head too much with the content, but can 'get' it - even if intuitively
Thank you
Editing stage:
(c) Neopoet.com. No copyright is claimed by Neopoet to original member content.
Comments
lovedly
Sun, 2016-06-19 08:18
very beautiful selection of words
are you a lady
must be
such sublime beauty
lovely
eleanor prince
Sun, 2016-06-19 16:38
re your comment
thank you kindly - yes, I'm female
author commentlovedly
Sun, 2016-06-19 08:21
sorrry I see you are an
Aussie maleeeee
SO many Aussies
love me...
Not physically
but in my poetry
judy says another Aussie
that I am waffly
eleanor prince
Sun, 2016-06-19 16:39
Re your comment
Each culture has its way - we know the Aussie essence hey! Thanks for your observation on where I reside
author commentlovedly
Sun, 2016-06-19 23:49
Glad for you
found another
nice Aussie in you
eleanor prince
Sat, 2016-06-25 06:47
thank you - there's a sting
thank you - there's a sting in me somewhere though so beware ;)
author commentSparrow
Sun, 2016-06-19 18:12
Elenor
Loved the write,
and good to see,
another Aussie..
The word I would change is:- "ephemeral" it seems to be of a more complex nature than the rest of the words used..
I have just got up to seven letter words, so I have to look up these multi faceted words,
Next year I promise to use and "understand" those eight and longer words..
Good write, and lovely to have you walk with us here, Yours Ian..
.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti
eleanor prince
Mon, 2016-06-20 06:21
To 'Sparrow'
Thank you so much for your consideration of my poem - glad you liked my write.
I do love the word 'ephemeral' but will take another look to see if I can insert another word given that it is not following the pattern of the words used here. Good observation - appreciated.
author commentGeezer
Sun, 2016-06-19 22:59
Seems unusual...
to have a female write of rough and tumble battle, but I'm not saying that you aren't capable, just that it is unusual! A few little crits here and there, but the one that bothers me most, is the line:
At times, I'd [glimpse] a spicy scent, just seems wrong. You may have had a reason for using the word that implies seeing, but it fell kinda flat. I think that you should go ahead and use sniff or smell,
[though I like [sniff] better. Get the R off from the word [you] in the sentence: At first, I swear you don't exist" I hope that you refine this a bit and see how smooth you can make it. It is a good solid poem about something that is important for people to understand. ~ Geezer
There is value to commenting and critique, tell us how you feel about our work.
This must be the place, 'cause there ain't no place like this place anywhere near this place.
eleanor prince
Mon, 2016-06-20 06:58
To 'Geezer'
Mm... interesting observation. I tend to write mostly from the centre of that 'rough and tumble battle' space as that is what intrigues me and begs to be explored. If I'm seen to do it justice then I am reassured.
Interesting re the word 'glimpse' coming across as flat and thank you for your alternate suggestions.
I can see I used words I love or resonate with and like to come at it from the side as a balance for the head-on sections... but I hear that you are saying that the olfactory senses are more in keeping rather than the visual. Will certainly consider.
When I get my poem up again (can't see it presently) I will try to get that flow better, as you suggest, and look at the suggestion re getting the 'R off' that word.
Glad the poem looks redeemable though and has some universal value.
Your suggestions are much appreciated.
author commenteleanor prince
Mon, 2016-06-20 14:25
edited version 1
Sparrow: I changed 'ephemeral' to 'elusive feat' which leaves the pattern of shorter words intact. How do you think that works?
Geezer: Didn't see the typo re 'you' replacing 'your' - thanks for that.
Can't come at 'sniff' or 'smell' - could use 'track', 'sense' or 'catch' which is more active. Here is the edit with these adjustments:
FRIEND OR FOE?
a fighting foe at edge of camp
I see your form
then not
elusive feat you are my friend
your shadow slinks
on past
at first I'd swear you don't exist
cerebral twist
a plot
horizon's heated bawdy brawl
the loser is
outcast
such fighting fists of underground
your deathly stare
decreed
at times I'd catch a spicy scent
anathema to
my sphere
and then one day you cornered me
defeat would I
concede
before I knew a roar erupts
an impact so
severe
go on ignore emotion true
defend this frail
veneer
embrace my rage with limits safe
release at last
from fear
author commentSparrow
Mon, 2016-06-20 19:02
Eleanor
Some of us like the words as they were, when you need to change anything on your writes just go to Edit at the top carry out the changes and then submit in the normal way.
You will find the original will be there and also the changes you have carried out if you need more info just ask this will save you posting it again as a complete poem.
Always remember that each of us have a differing perception of works so it is up to you when editing.
Take care and great to see you again, Yours Ian.
.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti
eleanor prince
Mon, 2016-06-20 19:17
To Ian ('Sparrow')
Thank you for your feedback. You are right that we can have a feeling that is accepting or otherwise about words we use - but the point of a critique is that we get to hear how it is received by others and then have an opportunity to adjust to it - or retain the original too, of course.
I wanted the poem I first wrote to stand at the top of the worksheet we are on so it can be referred to and then then only edit that when things feel more settled, but I see what you mean that it looks like I am posting a new poem rather than editing the original.
I appreciate your encouraging care, thanks, Ian :)
author commentSparrow
Mon, 2016-06-20 19:03
Eleanor
Echo has been at it again lol,
Yours Ian.
.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti
eleanor prince
Mon, 2016-06-20 19:18
To Ian
Echo? Not sure what you mean...
author commentSparrow
Tue, 2016-06-21 03:34
Echo!
When one of my comments is duplicated, it happens when you press enter twice on save when commenting lol,
Take care yours Ian..
PS:- I wrote under Ian.T before then I couldn't get into Neopoet, so I started again as Sparrow, but am also known as Yenti, which is the phonetic Ian.T x Oh Fun lol
.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti
eleanor prince
Sat, 2016-06-25 06:49
Well I will keep that in mind
Well I will keep that in mind - thanks :)
author commentjane210660
Mon, 2016-06-20 18:47
I loved this, I thought the
I loved this, I thought the flow good and liked 'ephemeral' and 'glimpse', I think they both add extra weight and I wouldn't change them. Like the photo also and assumed that it was the subject of the poem. Jx
------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.
eleanor prince
Mon, 2016-06-20 19:22
To Jane210660
So glad you enjoyed my poem, Jane.
Interesting that you like the original words 'ephemeral' and 'glimpse' - will think on further as we had the opinion that it wasn't in keeping with the pattern of the rest of the poem.
The photo? I did try to add a photo but think only the link not the image is there?
It was the closest I could get to expressing the sense of the poem, but of course my write is meant as a metaphor for interpersonal and intrapersonal struggles in life - maintaining freedom and integrity whilst communing where healthy. Hope that makes sense.
Perhaps, as is my concern, the poem was too obtuse?
I appreciate your comment very much, Jane
author commentjane210660
Tue, 2016-06-21 06:34
Hi
Hi
No the poem wasn't obtuse to me, I thought you used the stealth of the panther as your metaphor for the struggles in life. This is why I liked glimpse and ephemeral, because they seemed to fit the image so well. Maybe I'm reading too much in. Either way, I loved it. Jx
------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.
eleanor prince
Sat, 2016-06-25 14:57
To Jane
Hi
I'm glad it wasn't obtuse to you and for your understanding of the metaphor I have used - I did like glimpse and ephemeral for those reasons - do you think this has been lost now with the edited version? Glad you enjoyed my poem.
Ex
author commentjane210660
Sat, 2016-06-25 16:50
No not lost, but I prefered
No not lost, but I preferred the first version. Don't worry, you can't please all of the people all of the time :-) Go with what you think is best..... Jxx
------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.
Esker
Tue, 2016-06-21 22:16
Waited awhile to comment...
Love the word work on this
a style that is for me...unique
my word for cool
im pretty basic wired
when you opted for a new
word for the beautiful
anathema I was like..
whoa..
when u put in
the other
I was like...wow!
very clever...
"Elusive Feat"
I love words!!
tricky slick words
one of my fave
things..
I like Jaynes observations
on this
panther..
the old love of egos..
why...how...and what
(can I do to affect them)
my many panthers
never been able too
tame any...but got
all the neat scars!
excellent poem!!
thank U!
eleanor prince
Sat, 2016-06-25 15:13
To Esker
I appreciate your thoughtful feedback, Esker. I'm gathering you were cool with the original but perhaps see the edit on 'ephemeral' to 'elusive feat' worthwhile? Glad you can relate to the metaphor of the panther - or 'many panthers', as you point out. Love your critique - thanks!
author commentDiPrima
Wed, 2016-06-22 08:52
Hi, Eleanor
I love the structure of this poem -- end rhymes on every other stanza.
not/plot ... past/outcast ... decreed/concede ... sphere/severe. Just my personal opinion, but I wish you followed through with the pattern on the last two stanzas instead of consecutive rhymes --veneer and fear. Just a tad disruptive. Nevertheless, the imagery and pacing are super. Thank you.
Mike
eleanor prince
Sat, 2016-06-25 15:16
To Mike
Thanks for your responses to my poem with regard to the structure, Mike. I will take another look and consider adjusting the last two stanzas - thank you. Glad you liked the imagery and pacing. I appreciate your feedback.
author commenteleanor prince
Sat, 2016-06-25 15:30
To Mike - editing options to last two stanzas
and then one day you cornered me
defeat would I
concede
before I knew a roar erupts
an impact so
severe
go on ignore emotion true
defend this frail
veneer (or 'defend this lame{or lame} stampede' 'defend this spent ragweed')
embrace my rage with limits safe
release at last
from fear
author commentDiPrima
Sat, 2016-06-25 22:34
Good evening, Eleanor
You have paired "decreed" and "concede"
and "severe" and "fear"
So to me, the next to the last stanza can stand alone and doesn't need to use "veneer" or anything else to rhyme with the end rhymes in the stanza above or below. "Lame stampede" might be a good solution.
I'm a little too anal, so please take this comment with a grain of salt. An argument might be made for keeping "Veneer" and ending with a 1,2,3 punch -- severe, veneer, fear. I'd say, whatever feels right for you.
Thanks again. Cheers ...
Mike
eleanor prince
Mon, 2016-06-27 05:15
Response to Mike's observations
Hi Mike
As suggested, here is a version (of the last four stanzas) with the words 'lame stampede' in the last line of the second last stanza to have consistency of form with the alternating rhyme. I'd love to know how you think this goes (or another option from the suggestions from the rhyming words enclosed at the end):
and then one day you cornered me
defeat would I
concede
before I knew a roar erupts
an impact so
severe
go on ignore emotion true
defend this lame
stampede (was 'frail veneer')
embrace my rage with limits safe
release at last
from fear
...............
other 2 syllable words that rhyme with 'concede' that could be used for the second last stanza (likely with a different middle line):
accede, agreed, decreed, exceed, good-speed, , high-speed, impede, indeed, light speed, misdeed, mislead, misread, pitied, precede, proceed, recede, reread, reseed, seaweed, secede, succeed, take heed
Or maybe this is a better stanza altogether than the one ending with 'stampede'
go on ignore emotion true
defend and hide
recede
PS I also want to make sure that without using a question mark at the end of the second last stanza above it is clear that it is one of the options different to the closing, more successful stance?
author commentEsker
Mon, 2016-06-27 09:54
I like the recede line very well
overall the effective "voice" of your style and writing
is unique
like a four hand shuffle at the gaming table
(I knew people that could count cards
a few of the casinos would not permit them
entrance..the old tricksters!)
a different take on the old game of Luv
of which there is no antidote..
been through the gamut and gamble of
this and lost much
but learned a lot
the thrill of the chase
was always the most
cause for the affect
and Love sickness
oh dear
that exists
smitten swoon
Love is a Drug
and not the Bryan Ferry
tune my ex loved either
but he sings of it
and many others
See...Nick Cave
The Ship Song
and many others!
faceted..
thats what I like
about the construct
of this
it glitters
thank U!
eleanor prince
Mon, 2016-06-27 16:20
Response to Esker
Thanks so much, Esker. The style of my work has been called unique and I appreciate your thoughts on the construct of my write too. Guess I was never trained in poetry so you develop your own style - it arose organically in an effort to make sense of the world and existence as it presents and is experienced - at times arriving at a somewhat left-field take. I'm glad you find this poem lives - I need it to be anything but stale.
Any thoughts on the second last stanza (see conversation with Mike above). Thanks for dropping by - your observations are heartening!
author commentGeezer
Tue, 2016-06-28 19:04
I agree with...
most everything that has been said about this work! It is multifaceted, and you have a distinct style of your own. Nothing that any one of us says, is iron-clad in the least! I merely mentioned the way it felt to me at the time. The part about the word [glimpse] falling flat might be a little too harsh, I just felt that it wasn't in keeping with the lines that it appeared with. Not that big of a deal, apparently, because a lot of people defended it. Glad to have you here and writing. I hope that you get whatever you are looking for from the site and us. Great poem anyways you look at it!
~ Gee.
There is value to commenting and critique, tell us how you feel about our work.
This must be the place, 'cause there ain't no place like this place anywhere near this place.
eleanor prince
Tue, 2016-06-28 20:55
Response to Geezer
Thanks, Geezer. I appreciate your value of my writing style, and how those aspects of my poem felt to you at the time and also the feedback that I am getting all has its value - thank you so much.
Whatever I edit I can usually come at to some extent, however I'm unsure re the closing stanzas and would appreciate some responses on that from readers...
author commentjudyanne
Wed, 2016-06-29 09:47
hello Eleanor
Firstly - a typo?
'at first I'd swear your don't exist' (do you mean 'you')
Great write - I very much enjoyed it
'at times I'd glimpse a spicy scent
anathema to
my sphere'
- my favourite stanza.... but
just a personal thing re the use of the word 'scent', it never seems poetic - it doesn't describe....
something like
'at times I'd glimpse a spice essence'
'at times I'd glimpse a spicy rage'
I like this stanza especially because of the use of integrating senses - vision with smell with emotion.....
Really great word usage throughout
- love 'anathema' - lol I've used it myself a couple of times ...
Great alliteration - especially
'a fighting foe at edge of camp
I see your form
then not
... ephemeral you are my friend'
and
'horizon's heated bawdy brawl'...
to name just a couple
Enjoyed the occasional rhyme....
...... just now quickly read through the above comments.... you've been given a lot of suggestions for change - I don't really agree with most of them (lol for what that's worth)
.... but I'm sure you wont throw the baby out with the bathwater if you do do any editing
Love judy
xxx
'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)
eleanor prince
Wed, 2016-06-29 22:32
Response to Judy
Thanks so much, Judy, for your top critique - means a lot.
I went back to the original and corrected the typo - thanks.
I appreciate each and every response here and sometimes my head spins for I am not sure what to change or keep as everyone has a point. Glad you liked the original reasonably well and I will consider your suggestions too re 'scent'... haven't thought of it the way you describe. Not sure what to put in place and open to suggestions...
Thanks again for dropping by with your great observations.
Eleanor
author commenteleanor prince
Wed, 2016-06-29 22:37
Judy...
like your suggestion re 'scent' not showing but telling...
As it stands:
at times I'd catch a spicy scent
anathema to
my sphere
What do you think of this:
at times I'd sense iconic scent...
at times I'd catch your spicy storms (edge, ire, wrath, storm)
author commentjudyanne
Thu, 2016-06-30 01:13
just suggestions - you know what you want to convey...
sometimes I'd glimpse iconic spice
(I liked the original 'glimpse' - bringing the senses together .... the smell so powerful one can see it....)
But I think more in keeping with the concept is something like
sometimes the stench (stink) of something base (foul, vile....)
xxx
'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)
eleanor prince
Thu, 2016-06-30 15:06
ideas for this near completion edit appreciated pls
a fighting foe at edge of camp
I see your form
then not
elusive feat you are my friend (was: ephemeral you are my friend)
your shadow slinks
on past
at first I'd swear you don't exist
cerebral twist
a plot
horizon's heated bawdy brawl
the loser is
outcast
such fighting fists of underground
your deathly stare
decreed
at times I'd glimpse iconic spice (~ glimpse a spicy scent - deletes 'scent' but loses alliteration)
anathema to (or iconic trace, taste, nose, wind, trail ???)
my sphere
and then one day you cornered me
defeat would I
concede
before I knew a roar erupts
an impact so
severe
go on ignore emotion true
defend and hide (was: defend this frail/veneer - keeps to rhyme pattern for end words)
concede
embrace my rage with limits safe
release at last (or: release myself/ from fear ??? )
from fear
(after 'defend' in 2nd last stanza: defend/conceal/concede conceal/obscure/enshroud/shield/pretend/escape/avoid/hide/suppress/ignore/suppress/fool/flee/
deny/forget/secrete/overlook/keep/drown/hideout/
author commenteleanor prince
Thu, 2016-06-30 15:59
2nd Edit - appreciate feedback as close to completion :)
a fighting foe at edge of camp
I see your form
then not
elusive feat you are my friend (1)
your shadow slinks
on past
at first I'd swear you don't exist
cerebral twist
a plot
horizon's heated bawdy brawl
the loser is
outcast
such fighting fists of underground
your deathly stare
decreed
at times I'd glimpse iconic spice (2)
anathema to
my sphere
and then one day you cornered me
defeat would I
concede
before I knew a roar erupts
an impact so
severe
go on ignore emotion true (3)
defend deny
recede
embrace my rage with limits safe
release at last (4)
from fear
....................................................
Appreciate feedback on poem above and ??? areas, thanks:
(1) was: 'ephemeral you are my friend'
(2) was: 'glimpse a spicy scent' - new version deletes 'scent'
but loses alliteration...
Or: iconic trace, space, taste, nose, wind, trail ???
Or: fabled realm
Or: racy spice
'Glimpse' was not seen by a poet as ok
'catch a racy spice' (not settled with 'catch'
'glance a... ' 'glean a...'
'sight a...' 'blink a... ' ???
(3) was: 'go on ignore emotion true
defend this frail
veneer'
Or: 'go on ignore reality' (like direct punch here)
Or was: defend and hide/recede (not like 'defend and hide')
Other words to consider after 'defend' in 2nd last stanza:
deny/conceal/obscure/enshroud/shield/pretend/escape/
avoid /suppress/ignore/(fool)/flee//forget/secrete/
overlook/keep/drown/hideout
(4) was: 'embrace my rage with limits safe
release at last (cumbersome to say???)
from fear'
Or: release myself/ from fear ???
Not quite settled on 'iconic spice'...
'iconic gust' or 'mythic curve'
or 'fleeting trail' ???
author commentweirdelf
Sat, 2016-07-16 15:07
Please, Eleanor,
use the Edit function when revising a poem. It saves you from re-posting it in the thread where it can be missed and it gives the bonus option of allowing us to see at a glance the changes you have made and compare them.
I can't add anything to the excellent, though sometimes conflicting, feedback you've been given except I really like this poem and hope to see many more. Also, as Ian said "unless you specifically ask one of us for help". You can, there are Mentors available and most others on the site would be happy to give you feedback if you would prefer by Private Message.
Welcome to Neopoet, fellow Aussie,
cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry
DiPrima
Sat, 2016-07-02 20:30
recede ... release
I really like "defend, deny, recede" and ... "release at last from fear" In my opinion, they wrap up this poem nicely.
Mike
eleanor prince
Sun, 2016-07-03 06:06
To Mike - and all poets here
Thank you, hugely, Mike! I'm glad that read well... Will tick those and see if all agree it would then be a done deal (given the other options I've put numbers to? Or are there other suggestions for those other questions I posted?) Many thanks
author commentjudyanne
Mon, 2016-07-04 02:00
hi Eleanor
You've been given lots of suggestions here
I think you original was great, any suggestions are simply that - suggestions, and it's now really up to you to take and leave as fits your theme... and as I said earlier, be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.... :-)
Take time away from it before editing, come back with fresh eyes, and I look forward to reading your finished product
love judy
xxx
'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)
eleanor prince
Mon, 2016-07-04 19:06
Response to Judy
refreshing comment, thanks - yes, I was getting a bit bogged down head swirling in the end, welcome and precious as opinions and feedback is, one can be at risk of not retaining one's focus on what was good originally or we intend to say... Thanks for this sage advice... will take a break for bit so I can see it with 'fresh eyes.' :) Thank you all for your input - much appreciated
author comment