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Dissatisfied Neopoet?

During our AEC Chat Session that was held recently, one of the discussions that occured was about how best to get members to comment on more peoples work. One of the ideas that was suggested was to set the Neopoet website to only allow people to post a poem once they have written 2 or 3 critiques (number of words to be discussed , as we want people to say more than 'Great Poem'). This would make sure that people have their work looked, at and also prevent over posting.

THIS IS NOT SOMETHING WE INTEND TO IMPLIIMENT , IT IS SIMPLY A WAY TO GET SOME CONSTRUCTIVE DISCUSSION STARTED, ABOUT HOW NEOPOET SHOULD DEVELOP IN THE FUTURE.

Lou

Comments

I think it's a great idea to get more folks commenting............stan

I think one comment per post might work.
Of course it doesn't address quality of feedback.

Remember if someone whines about not getting feedback you can go to their profile, click on Track to see what feedback they've been giving, usually none or facile.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

for a system to function productively Give and Take is necessary ...in that context i believe members should give something back (comments / critique) when they take something from this site...

raj (sublime_ocean)

(hope you don't mind me jumping in, Lou)
But poets tend to be an egocentric bunch. The question is how to encourage them to give real, meaningful, useful critique.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

Jess you are right about that...

you have done your bit by encouraging members with tips about how to critique, why to critique, need to be open minded , being un-biased and so on...besides we have been having workshops which by their very nature/syllabus demand that fellow participants critiques workshop poems...yet they are not encouraging members to the desired extent to critique others poems as a responsibility

in spite of the above all we need to do is to keep brainstorming and come up with more ideas...lets keep at it is all i can think of for the present....

just a wild thought...will it help if it is made mandatory for new members to comment and critique on X number of poems from Y number of Neopoets before they get to post their first poem?

raj (sublime_ocean)

I think the workshops are doing more good for critique than you are giving them credit for.

Don't be put in a negative space by other peoples complaints. The workshops are working.

The poetry and the critique are getting better.

Neopoet V3.0 will be in a very strong place when we open to the public.

Yet still, as we both agree, we need to encourage a sense of community and mutual support (although I truly hate calling it a family, we are not family, "A Family of Poets"? My fat arse!) in any way we can.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

pardon me if you thought that i was undermining the value of workshops which certainly was not what i meant because i do appreciate their value immensely...perhaps you didn't notice the words "to the desired extent"

raj (sublime_ocean)

I think it would set the tone for the site, if new people had write one critique, before posting their poem, and have it be a general rule for all members when posting.

lou

Stand tall, be proud to be who you are, give the world the finger!!!!

author comment

my suggestion of letting New Members doing only comments / critiquing for at least a week before they are allowed to post their poem was intended to let them know how important it is for them to do so...of course it is expected of all members new or old to keep doing it...

raj (sublime_ocean)

I think the way that we can encourage people to say more than that was a great poem, would be to decide on a minimum amount of words that would have to be used in a crit, (enough for one or two paragraphs maybe).

Lou

Stand tall, be proud to be who you are, give the world the finger!!!!

author comment

"I love this it is so beautiful straight from the heart I can tell you really felt this etc etc ad nauseum."

Critique can only be determined at a similar level to poems. I suggest that anyone whining about lack of feedback merely be tracked to see what they are giving.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

i've not been here for a while, and was pleased to come across
this blog on my return

i have a bit of a different take on things though

i'm probably the lone salmon swimming upstream here,
but i'm not bothered if i'm read or not
and i certainly don't stress if my writes are commented
on or not
i don't delve into why people are, or are not reading and commenting...
i sort of assume that life is happening, and they don't have the time
to spend on neo
of course i'm not naive enough to believe that's the case all the time...
there will always be those self absorbed / obsessed enough to
not really bother with others' poetry...should those things
bother us to the extent that they affect our enjoyment of
our own poetry, and time on neo?

i hear, and read a lot, about "poets" being egotistical, and
having fragile egos...i don't blindly accept that...i think some can
be downright sooky la la's, (and immature to boot) and could
probably do with drinking a cup of cement and hardening
the fuck up...(as we quaintly say here in oz)

i write the above, with no one person in mind...just a general
observation of my travels around poetry sites

so, i'm kind of ambivalent about the issues raised here...
i don't think anyone should be MADE to review,
and certanly not dictated to about the length of their reviews...

yet...i understand that these are important issues to most,
and issues many would like to see resolved

the best things here to help with the critiquing issue, are
the workshops, particularly weirdelf's
i've been reading a number of posts, and have seen quite
a bit of progression with writers...and some pretty great
expansive critiques...i'm assuming those involved are
taking those critiquing skills learned to the stream as well

though i'm against anyone being made
to review (and using X amount of words) i believe
AEC will implement something, and probably should
do so, as the majority of members would like something
to be done...
and i'm very cool with whatever is decided upon

cheers
p

Nothing really changes. It's best to admit that. What makes anyone think that somehow we change who we are into someone who we aren't? We may try, but as I have seen over the years at Neopoet, the less *free exchange* (for better or worse) the more insipid the commentary, as if we're *afraid* to cross lines honestly.

My thoughts and I realize few share them. *Your poem sucks* may not be something I want to hear but I sure as hell prefer that to read whining and more whining.about the good old days
when everyone is happy that there's no one to instigate us into real emotions.

I wasn't here the early days, Jess. But I think we have almost homogenized this site to its death
(in that I agree with Rosie, obviously, for different reasons).
Real feelings are disallowed because they're *politically incorrect*. I'd rather have a good old fashioned fight with someone than the *politeness* that has taken over Neopoet. We've become Stepford poets or pod people.

~Anna

the same thing has happened on another
poetry site i belong to...
homongenised and pasteurised beyond recognition

you just have to stay true to self

howdy A!

Of course I know I am not alone in my seemingly sisyphusean fight against homogenisation, but its nice to hear it stated.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

The AEC do not intend to impliment anything regarding this issue. The main reason for this blog is to get some constructive discussion started about how members would like Neopoet to be in the future. We simply thought we would raise an idea that came to light during the AEC chat session, to see if people would like the idea, as people in general seem to want their work commented on.

Lou

Stand tall, be proud to be who you are, give the world the finger!!!!

author comment

Nobody has been or will be condemned for saying whatever they want about a Poem. And if the lessening of personal attacks against the writers disturbs anybody perhaps they should review themselves and their motives for giving feed back. If I am on AEC long enough it is my intention to bring the following up for discussion and vote. All new members will be allowed to post 2 poems without giving comment on others' poems. After the 2 poems have been posted, they and all will have to give comment on at least 3 poems by others before they can post again......This is all assuming this is technically possible. It is already in the discussion stage bringing back the number of "hits" a poem receives. It is my opinion that a variation of what I will propose and the addition of a hit count might go far in resolving this problem. By allowing a new member to post twice before requiring them to offer comment, they will have a chance to see what the site is about. By requiring all to comment before posting, I think even those who only comment will eventually begin offering suggestions for improvement. Damn! didn't mean to write an essay lol.......stan

I'll throw my pennies out now ... I think it's more a
posting problem than anything else. There are those
that would rather post yet another blog or poem than
to comment. I'm going to say it yet one more time, there
should be a limit on postings, one of anything except for
comments ... and it's terrible that any rules should need
be implemented at all, but we humans are a self centered
bunch. If that rule were to be implemented, there would be
no need for a required number of comments.

Maths won't do the trick. It's about the culture of the place.

New members need to be greeted, as Rosi has emphasised, and introduced to a poetic community of mutual learning. I would be very happy to run ongoing workshops for newcomers on critique and I think it is a better approach.

If I decide to run again for AEC be assured that on my agenda will be changing "A Family of Poets" to "A Community of Poets". We are not a support group for people's problems and never should be. The legal consequences alone could be devastating. We should engender a culture of poetry, not a twitter group of poetasters.

This is a practical approach that doesn't involve abstract mathematical rules or re-programming of the site.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

Here we go again, loopy loop.

Implement more *rules* as to what I should or should not be doing, and I'm outta here for good.
As I have offered, I have a full life and don't have time to comment on crap or boring poetry and make nice nice.

Besides, if I've ever offered advice, or ideas, they were hardly if ever used. People grow by their own rules and desires... like the old saying goes, one can lead a horse to water but.,,,

I post poetry here to inspire, mostly, and let other poets/readers know they're not alone with their feelings, hopes, fears and aspirations, sorrows...(as egotistical as I am).

So be it.

~A

p.s. Curiously enough just yesterday Barry was surprised I still post here. I don't talk about Neopoet much. Our lives are filled with other things.

that just snuck in before you.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

It is impossible to make everyone happy,
I'm only offering a suggestion that I've given
several times now and in my opinion has never
been given fair thought. Just how would that rule
hurt you anyway, one poem, one blog, one forum,
and when they return, one short story ... who would
need more than that in one day? Even when the rule
of no more than one poem per day was regulated, it
was, and will be again, undermined with the blogs,
forums and upon their return, short stories. That is the
point I was trying to make, and have been saying it since
the "one poem per day" was implemented way back when.

Your blog starts out as dissatisfied neopoet.

Wow when did that ever become an issue? Pun is intended, Lou. My feelings. As they are only mine of course and do not belong to anyone other than me are of this. If anyone is not happy here for whatever reason(s) they may have, then they should think about another place they can get what they call happiness from. If it is attention or whatever this is a poetry site and as I have not been so involved much of late this year I still manage to come in here and chat with chatroom once in a while or comment on something when my time permits. I do not always get to get back to it or poems for there is not time enough to do so. Hence I have time now to put my two cents here.

I do not either expect someone to cater to my every little whim or gripe either. Life is not always fair but we take each day as it comes with expectations come what may. Predicitions are like rainfall you never know when it will come.

I think the workshops are working good here, and as I only did one and found it to be very beneficial. I think the poets working with one another is great and I expect to join in soon as my time will permit.

I believe like Anna here in this one - Life is not all about Neopoet. When you make it your entire life then that is a cause for concern. I know for I too one time was wrapped too tight around this site. I learned much here and owe it to all those experiences I had, the good and the bad. I like what Pleaides has to say also. Maybe some take this site way too serious for their liking. Forget about before the crash as everything changes from one day to the next. It is called Growth!

We all have things going on in our lives. There appears to me to be some dissertion going on amongst some this past week. I found some comments rather slighting against the site. Not everyone will be happy and this is not the place to get happy every single time you log on to the site either. Whether one calls it the sad truth or the happy truth. It all is up to an individual what constitutes happiness or sadness It should not depend on others reading or commenting on your work. Yes it helps but it is also a two sided coin. You have to collaborate together. Working on that is the biggest accomplishment anyone can make! (IMHO)

It does not mean everyone else feels the same exact way.

After being on here for a few years all I can say and offer to any dissatisfied Neopoet is this:
If you don't like the chicken then go for the hamburger.

McDonalds that is:) They have Happy Meals there:)

I will write a snippet from what I was just thinking here later.

Good Day to you Lou
And to all Neo's too
Neopoet wouldn't be
If not for all of you.

Hugs
Mona

Those are very wise words.

Lou

Stand tall, be proud to be who you are, give the world the finger!!!!

author comment

I have learned so much in here that I owe it to all of you for what I have become and what I would like to see also with a pure and concise focus to all that visit and participate here. I will try harder to do better myself.

Love Mona

Is not to restrict people or police what they say and do. The idea is basically to find away that everyone gets read, and some sort of comment of a reasonable length, so that it is more than a pat on the head. People would be free to say exactly they want.

But this is my peersonal opinion . live and let live, and comment on eachothers work.

Lou

Stand tall, be proud to be who you are, give the world the finger!!!!

author comment

Perhaps newcomers besides being greeted and given the new and improved guidelines (when they are) should be given the Number 1rule for success @ Neopoet.

1. If you want your poems to be read, you have to read other poets' poems, and comment. If you don't, no one will pay attention to you because this is a tit for tat society. Attached is a helpful guide to ease your way into becoming an unpaid critic. Oh, and we're doing this for your
own good (wink wink).

How do you like Neopoet now?

That my friends, takes all the nice-nice out of what is really going on.

IMO, if one doesn't have the urge to read or critique, it should never be a perfunctory thing. However, like anything else, if we get past the initial *Yikes, I hate doing this* stage, some things become automatic, like brushing teeth, or putting down the toilet seat.

Two sides to every issue.

~A

The AEC, are doing their best to take into consideration everyone's concerns.

Why don't you have a word with Chyrs and Cat, i'm sure they will have a way that that you can be involved with meeting and greeting newcomers etc, as they have just been given that task to deal with.

Lou

Stand tall, be proud to be who you are, give the world the finger!!!!

author comment

I thought that you were interested in becoming a greeter, that is the only reason I mentioned becoming involved.

It's great, that you are starting a course. I'm sure you will be totally fine. it is frightening i know, it was the same when I did my HND in Graphic Design. But you will find that you can cope with a lot more than you think you can. That is a very positive move your making well done. Keep me up to date with your progress.

Lou

Stand tall, be proud to be who you are, give the world the finger!!!!

author comment
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