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A Personal Opinion

Much has been spoken of late about how Neopoet is primarily a workshop environment and thus posting poetry for comment only is something to be frowned upon. Having been on this site for more than a few years now, I believe I can truthfully say that the Neopoet of years past was a more energetic and jovial place when things were a bit more relaxed. People used to have fun here, not only posting their poetry for mutual commentary, but also hanging out in the Chat Rooms, and discussing the many facets of life that we all share as poets. Do we see this now? No, we do not, and why? It is because we are brow-beaten into virtual submission by certain members telling us we must always try to make a poem better, and by doing so, make the Poet better! It is always this Workshop and that Workshop, ad infinitum, and very little, if any, actual communication between members for just friendship's sake!

I, for one, find this to be unappealing and a bit heavy-handed. When a poet writes a poem, that poem is an expression of a vision he or she has had and told in the manner that said poet has seen it. Other than typo's, or obvious lapses in grammar, what make anyone think that they can improve on someone else's poetic vision? If a poem is changed by another person, that poem no longer is the true creation of the original poet, and then becomes an amalgam of several other people's insensitive tinkerings! I know this will be ranted on and howled about, but as for me, my poetry is my own, and regardless of what others may think needs improving, I stand by what I have written and damn the torpedoes!

It is my fervent hope that we can all consider our work to be extensions of ourselves and the way we feel about the subjects we write on. I am not saying do not try and become better, but I am saying, don't let someone else say that their way is better than yours! Lets all get back to being neighborly here on Neo, and when the Workshops are finished, try to have a little old-fashioned fun! Enough said!



original neo.....july..i found this place..there were dynamic peoples..
the chat room was amazing...but then internet like the real world was
a bit more relaxed.....nine years....i always take up contracts with jobs..girlfreinds like tours of duty...metaphors but in a year if i dont like something i know i can
abort the mission or leave...plead crazy..or kamikaze into the scene...
which paradoxically enough is what is happening slowly with the world since the eighties....which were not that great of a period.....but compared to whats occuring out there in the real world....yah..they were great! kind of like looking at neopoet of old and the neopoet of new....

high school was like the old neopoet..people hanging out..chumming..the usual digruntled crowd but overall a kind of nice feel to it..relaxed....then along came the modern got amped up big...people are bugging out all over en always trying to stay peaceful enough and calm because deep down we got raised to at least know what to do...make an attempt anyway....

we are not making birdhouses.....
(i like birdhouses)
but its natural for human nature to jump in and try to grab
how it should be run.....not how its running...or the way it used to be..

be like Dungeons and Dragons took over..a metaphore..i like dungeons and
dragons..never played it....never will..
the more and enforced enforcement is going on..the more the scale of
its perplexity rolls up like a small wave....all the pressure keeps mountian
mounting...lately words are transforming for me into visual works
its like my mind is syncing from all the phone internet use..

anyway..enough people take enough of the rules because the rules
become hybird....nothing stays static..not the weather..not the price
of gas....the qaulity of goods etc....
instead of a freesite its suddenly become this membership feeling based society now again....revolts all over....

because....all it might take is someone who shows up who never played
dungeons and dragons to suddenly sit down and start playing.slow at first
then better better...maybe woman beast decides to just kick over the playing boards....and restart a different vision again..

the rules are hybred

i always say....start a membership based room..immediatly it shows up
as profit on the capilist venture squad....suddenly there is no free man
jo anyone or jo anne anyone idealism...suddenly its all about profit
adertisments etc...unless its for talented artists....dedicated...loyal..driven to the perection of crafting the perfect poem....membership only...but in order to avoid the taxation of capital inestiture its a secret society...then you have everyone
writing the same poem...agreeing that they are all equals....powerful in wordsmithing and technique...invite only.....society will never know you are a poet....

we are not publishing...publishers...
we are not offering cash or premium membership for best worked over poems...its a freesite....if i was serious about poetry writing and making a dollar from this...i would not publish feesite...for indeed i believe in thge freedom of spirit....freedom to speak whats on ones mind freely...

diaryland....its a diary..but a lot of people run up poems there..i like it because it too is free with same offered membership upgrade...
i cant afford to buy a cup of coffee...thats my i chose to live it and by how and whom with......if i come here and its an dream to make it through the day to write something im doing it...
over there the chat room was different...if you didnt fit in..or you were not running the chat room..there were a few...then you were out.....someone got jealous it didnt take long....wasnt govered at was fun while it lasted but it got so nit picky....think about how many top notch writers did themselves in....tons of issues but they put all that pressure to write the next great book etc...
but they did.

this is a test bed this place i think...

i give comments and often try to crituque..
i got no technical background like some
im not going to pound this over anyones head
..and if i did have technical background
im going to point something out to assist
towards improving the work..not the poem see know that people
just want to mess up the poem
straight up people..

i had a few bright people arrive here
and they left....very well read people
very creative...they are on twitter and
other places...

i find that the worshop idea is good
but this putting people down with ridicule
or ignoring their efforts on poems submitted
in workshops is lax sometimes..

but this happens in the real world
where people were submitting their work
for cash in the dear old lovely fifties
nuke bombs korea
washrooms for this person and
no wage for that person
(supposed to be at home.)
disabled people were put in homes
away from the rest of soceity

and people evolve with the work
of comments and critique
poets are not in a vacum
most of my poems come from
living here in the crazy world of
my life....

i just dont listen....i wrote a few
different poems and got told
it was the worse thing ever
or something feeble like that
its like doing anything for the first
few times..
nor do i give up on something i
know is a good neopoet

the earlier Neopoet was great.

but yes...something is afoot in
like an old elder said to me
the rotten apple affects all
the other apples...

to keep the whole apple bushel
on presumption of equality
or liberty for the sake of a
cantagion be it organic or
otherwise is unwise

i agree....something is amiss
there were and it was a happier
apple time

we have work.
we have a voice

thank you Lonnie..

It costs money to run a website. How long do you think Andrew and Paul will keep pouring money into the site? It needs to raise revenue somehow. I understand most poets are broke but Premium membership does offer advantages and is cheap. Even a small donation is appreciated.
There is also a book committee which may raise some money from a Neopoet Anthology with a chapter on workshopping. Not Workshops, workshopping. If you feel your poetry is perfect and needs no more than a spellcheck and grammar check, well you won't get even that on most other sites. Go to, get awarded an automatic "Editors Choice" and pay for a book that has every poem on the site included, highly deluded. If you care to grow your work through the workshopping process, which never imposes changes, only suggests improvements, then Neopoet is far the best poetry site on the web for that purpose.

Workshops are not compulsory, they offer a service, for free. The reason they have become so popular is not they are taking over the site, it is because they have proven useful to people who are genuinely interested in learning and improving their craft. The only two exceptions to this are lonnie and esker, who are naturally gifted poets whose work might even suffer from Workshops. Although I note that many of the poems in 'undiscovered list' are eskers. This is not a reflection on your poetry but that most readers like to be spoon-fed, and your poetry is not easy. You could perhaps reflect on that.

There is still the Dashboard, The Stream- Workshop>Stream , Tools>Track all site activity and very important Tools>Undiscovered work.

Personally I have promoted critique because most poets can learn. Most of the workshops I have run have been on critique and poetic forms, which is a challenge and difficulty for me as I mostly write freeform. Though I write the best of my freeform from having learned poetic techniques.

If I have any influence on Neopoet it is because I have worked for it, having run or participated in every Neopoet committee.

A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'

You took the words out of my mouth. I used to use neo as an outlet for my emotions, commentary and friendship. Now I am told this is a workshop only. I can't conform to the rigid structure that they want me to do so I no longer write. I don't understand the mechanisms they want me to use and it hurts my brain to continually rewrite my poems. This is why I no longer post and if I do it is few and far between. Writing was my only outlet. I wish we could go back to reading for pleasure....

Keep Writing,

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

You post what you like but the terms and conditions of Neopoet is that it is a workshop.

Workshops are not compulsory, they offer a service, for free. The reason they have become so popular is not they are taking over the site, it is because they have proven useful to people who are genuinely interested in learning and improving their craft.

There is still the Dashboard, The Stream- Workshop>Stream , Tools>Track all site activity and very important Tools>Undiscovered work.

A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'

As you are probably aware I do play around a lot, and at the same time, join the odd workshop.
The workshops to me are a learning place but I am old school and need to relax with my own way.
I think that we must just join whatever workshops we deem we need and then have a time out with the other side of us which is fun and helpful to other poets in another way.
I think that Carrie has had more of my other pieces than Lonnie or Steve but it is fun and I am not going to change.
I always thought Form was the odds on a horse until I came to Neopoet lol,
Yours Ian.T

There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

I love your writing and I know you have read a great deal of mine. I have learned much from many on here and have tried to utilize that in recent work. Will try to get something new in the stream shortly.

Keep Writing,

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Always remember that some can be severe here but just stand by their side or try and look with their eyes at the world.
Don't you worry about anyone having a go at works here we may never meet them so in that sometimes they may not exist..
You take care and I hope you enjoyed the feast we had on the beach the other day, it was a great get together..
You take care and I shall wait for Nevermore to join us again.
Other than that you just write and learn if you need to, it is a place to belong and the travellers are fine,
Yours as always Ian.T

There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

is a lot different than Digit or Killer. It will be fun to see what becomes of the three of them and to see what Alid comes up with as well. For right now, Nevermore is thinking about how she would like to return to Neopoet, what kind of mischief she would like to is good to see you back and active on here as well. I do enjoy your writing!!!

Keep Writing,

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Critique, don’t comment. Neopoet is primarily a workshop environment, where you can expect to receive critique of various levels.

A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'

Before there can even BE a workshop there must first and foremost be creativity. Kinda hard to improve a thing if the thing is not there in the first place ain't it? So nobody should ever feel pressured to join any shop to the extent that it interferes with that elusive muse. And if they Do feel pressured they should not give in to that pressure. The workshops here are almost always set up to address a specific subject having to do with poetry so often they preclude the best poetry being written there. Too often the very rules and subject matter of a shop keeps the shop poetry from being very good. But as long as the area covered by the shop teaches participant anything, that's OK.

The stream is where the best poetry appears anyway. Many here are pretty much "born" poets and their works seem to flow off their pens without effort. Some have that natural "ear" for rhythm and such. And a few here would likely not get better mainly because they are so good to begin with lol. And there are also many here who just want to write as a means of sharing and they're perfectly happy to never learn about such things as scansion, rhyme patterns and such. That's OK too. But unknown to them they are slowly learning anyway just by reading others' poetry.

I have an ongoing "battle" with one member about comment vs. critique.I thinks it's best to offer up exactly what one thinks make a person like or dislike a poem because honest feed back helps most writers get better........BUT........I think a comment of any type is better than receiving no comment at all. This is especially true for new or shy poets. I often think about my first post here. I didn't hardly know a thing about typing or computers and the submission came out garbled. The words were all there but I hadn't yet learned the function of the "enter" key. Had I received a harsh or even honest critique on that 2nd poem I'd ever written I'd likely have crawled away from writing at all. Instead I got supportive comments.So i hung around (much to some people's consternation lmao). We have little way to know the level of experience that most new arrivals have nor do we know their level of confidence. So giving a comment which is friendly, even if it lacks real substance, might just give a new writer enough confidence to continue on and gain the courage to later on adapt to giving and receiving honest feed back. Workshops are set up specifically to provide that honest feed back from many sources for those who have been writing long enough to have come to the realization that they could write better if they only knew how.

I have heard the term "sewing circle" used. And there are and have been folks here who fit the description. Do they not have the right to be here as well as those who join mainly to learn via shops? Of course they do! And as mentioned earlier even they will learn over time just by reading and eventually by gaining confidence to offer gentle suggestions for improving others' writing. You see, Neopoet is sneaky that way. We allow everybody in then let them learn at either an accelerated rate via workshops or subliminally by reading others' works and commentary. They can learn also by seeing a lot of poems and poets evolve over time from being
mundane to being something far above mundane. As long as they are HERE they are learning.

The Old Neopoet....... I came here a few months prior to the major site crash.So I'm not a new comer but I'm not an old timer either.I remember when the site was a pretty wild place to be. I saw people fighting and arguing about poetry (which was fine) .I also saw them personally attacking all others who thought differently than they did (which was disturbing). I saw when things got out of hand, for whatever reason and people were driven off site because they apparently weren't deemed good enough in either their writing or their critique.I saw Neo become such a battle ground that nothing much was being learned by anybody and "trolls" were rampant. i saw people being bullied and I never have tolerated bullying. Something Had to change. And things gradually Did change. It took and still occasionally takes tossing out a bad apple now and then to keep chaos, mean spirited chaos at bay. This is a regrettable thing for anybody in the AC to be forced into but it's a thing which sometimes can't be avoided. ........But by eliminating a few of these trolls I sometimes wonder if the general membership have been scared into an undesired conformity which stifles creativity. I am presently the AC chair. Not by choice but because it was thrust upon me. So I will now use the "bully pulpit" for the first time.NOBODY SHOULD FEAR BEING SUSPENDED OR BANNED FOR HAVING A SPIRITED DEBATE OR ARGUMENT WITH OTHERS. Did Ya'll get that? also ALL ARE FREE TO NEVER JOIN A WORKSHOP OR GIVE IN DEPTH CRITIQUE UNLESS THE WANT TO. Dang that's was loud lol. About the only restrictions we put on behavior is that folks don't copy others' works without permission, don't do actual harm to the site, don't physically threaten another on site, and don't call names or personally attack other poets on site. That's not asking all that much.

So everybody now has "official" permission to join a workshop, or not. To give intensive critique to every poem you read or just say you like it or anything in between. To get into arguments within the above mentioned boundaries. To contact me or any AC member with ideas for improvement. To volunteer for things, or not.
All are welcome here who are willing to abide by membership rules. Because all are of or will become of value in some way. And all will learn by merely being here and teach by merely being here. My index finger is now numb so thanks for listening..........stan

Thank you for your write, things here ebb and flow like the tide,
we should all just be aware that the other poet is just as we are, a person that writes.
It matters not why, and if we need we can comment, this has as you say to be a free structure or the weight of rules will crush it.
I have met many lovely people here and love them all, in their own ways, this should be one of the directives.
But that is another story, I have crossed swords with a few, and had to shout at some, and the fact that I just give and take has always been good for all I meet.
As you said you cannot be here without learning something and that is where Neopoet excels, as long as it stays loose it will teach many even if it takes years.
Your write said most all there is to say,
Thank You, Yours Ian.T

There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

Well said. I am much better at speaking on the emotional part of.pieces than the mechanics of it. I think we all have our strengths and give critique in our own way. I enjoy trying to improve my pieces but without making the poem lose its character. As my life is a series of ups and downs and a three ring circus, so is my writing. The emotions go from manic to sadness in seconds. It will be good to write just to get it out....Thank you

Keep Writing,

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

and could have written it in one paragraph.

Some people, explicitly Mona the whale, see it as a social site and have no poetic talent or desire to improve it. Am I being judgemental? Fuck yes. Ask Andy and Paul about their vision for this site. After all, they pay for most of it and most members won't even fork out for Premium or even a donation. Shame on you!

Please name the other AC members beside yourself, Stan, name the Trustees and how to contact all of you.

the "sewing circle" is the most destructive thing on Neopoet. Calling trite, cliched, badly written poems "oh so lovely, from the heart" is lying and destructive. It helps no-one. I will never fail to accuse a comment of calling a bad one a good one.

A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'

The AC at the moment consists of Rula , Richard and myself. All other officials are easily found on the neopoet positions list which is under the "help" button. I have never considered myself any kind of "king" here or anywhere else. For you to imply such is a bit churlish.

I agree that it's wrong to call every poem posted such things as "master piece, lovely, well written" and such when some are far from it. But there's nothing wrong with just letting a poet know you just dropped by. After all, Nobody has the time to do in depth critique on each poem they read here.

And when are You going to stop calling Lonnie names? It's becoming tiring.........stan

I think i'm a hundred percent behind Lonnie on this one, to be creative you've got to be free do do what you think. You can't work within restraints and i fear the workshops may demand a poet has these restraints when working. Regards Roscoe...

Roscoe Llane,

Religion will rip your faith off, and return
for the mask of disbelief that's left.

Though they have many testimonials that they help, a lot.

A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'

wow...thats my world....
sometimes you have to bait a bully
and pms and messages cant be
deleted anymore for legal sake..
with more people crushed by this
social idiocy and local laws changing
to protect the old and the young
its getting harder to be a bully without
being painted....drawn,,maybe not
quartered yet.....

i think there should be only a second
chance for those driven off on the old archive
and on the new for messing up and
attacking others..

and i question why? its poetry
people work hard to write this..face up
to coming here and sitting in thinking..
yah..poets..we understand one another..
my joy in life..the soft or hard can sit
beside each other and scribble doodle or
crank out masterful deep things ..

if i want to write about tea cups and
doilies i will..if i want to write about street slam
poetry i shall
and i know bullies...


this place deals with all aspects
of self governing as any society should
its not a worry or concern here from
my end and ive worked on a lot of systems
in my day..
in this regard this works..
if it was just a wild flatten the world
or butter my ass joint...i would not be here

im here to write poetry..
i dont have time to sit and squash
someones sandcastle because its not
the taj mahal.

im kind of going on so i will stop
that shit about that..

takes time to stop and love these
worlds not a bore or gorefest
of ripping yer heart out for love
although one an write eloquently
about this kind of thing
ore tenderly

sometimes the glitter and glam
is about the poem
i like this snazzy stuff..
the bling to the moment\

but im focused..
more now.
so i see society as it is
not perfect
i appreciate prettiness
and sugar coated things
and the gritty dirty soiled

but then again i do love
am a poet

kind of got me there..
(holding heart)

im grateful for this place
and call it home...
and like my home here
i keep it neat..
welcome to many

thank you!

I have been away for 100 years and I come back and everything old is new again. You have to laugh!

I've heard it said that any group of more than 3 people will never agree 100%.....sometimes I think any group of more than 1 is more accurate lol. Welcome back and I hope you have a lot of fun ........stan

we can have conflict in ourselves. No relief! :)


A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'

Nowhere in the membership rules does it state that one Must join workshops or Must give negative critique. And it might shock you but Lonnie actually Has made a few suggestions on some of my stuff.
But his contributions are more in the form of being somebody who most people learn from by simply reading his stuff. He's one of those "sneaky" teachers I referred to in my earlier lengthy comment here. ..........stan

Neopoet is by definition a workshop. The Workshops just address specific issues. Nor has it ever been said that you must give negative critique, look up the difference between critique and criticism. A better phrase may be 'constructive criticism' but 'critique' means exactly the same thing.

A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'

all of this....petulant rant..i like that....but the workshop over the head routine is
getting repetitious....are you having a melt down? we all have them..there is good
counselling in australia..i know your country is very hard though...very patriarch system weakness..etc,,,,almost equally the same kind of forward liberalism as
america ideology....i am a canadian...we were taught queens english which is odder
then usual...we are goes with our politeness eh! its like nam....though..
fragging was popular......i only write here because I care......and that i like some of these
poets......its very Canadian...

you might reconsider these thoughts,

A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'

you call one of aussies vets this to their face? you went off chair to do
well i have no respect for this kind of thing..on the my or out there..
but maybe you are having a stroke....ive sen this..people say things write like this
and end up in the psych...been helped me a great deal...the stresses
people deal with....but you cant just lose it......shameful! as my proper mother
would say!

that Lonnie can't get treatment for his PTSD.
That may excuse his behaviour, but it doesn't change it.

I support all vets, but I don't accept lies and slander from them.

A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'


A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'

I have seen exchanges like these a number of times since joining Neo. They drove me a way for a good number of months. Not because of the content or any other bullshit like that, just for the mere reason that so much valuable time is being wasted here when poets who need it (like myself and others) are waiting for critique.

If i were looking for a website to hone or gain skill and I read this, it would be on to the next. Isn't there somewhere y'all can go fight in private.



but it is hard to stay silent when someone calls you a liar and manipulator, a destroyer of poets and then everyone chimes in. It just has to run its course, it will pass.

A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'

Your point has been made. As a personal favor I'd suggest you now cease your rhetoric directed at Lonnie..........stan


A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'


"titantic ice
go thunk
she sunk
poetry was an is in the cans
business setting of all bars
and parks..

where one goes to do ones

i have a day of chock a block bike walk
and dog job

and non stop talk

we grind away as the world does
shinning and polishing
sharpening and softening
some are chalk
chiselled with a mallet
others are granite
mulled with fine
the ice
to a garden partiers

storms come and go
and you are right
ive never been on a committee
here or donated a dime
save my works
a few comments
and time

but there is just something
about this place
about americana i like

living here i have the net
on my own i wouldnt
i have to live alone
not with anyone else

maybe i should consider
it a good run and just
let it be

put it all on facebook where
a ton of my stuffs been
and on another site

social politics
its always that

it got the published too
a few of those with talent
me im still a hack..

but theres great poetry here..
this place will always be magic
a place in my heart!

thank you Neopoet/z!

(c) No copyright is claimed by Neopoet to original member content.