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"not currently editing" has got to go!

This new option, available when posting a poem, was intended for use with poems that have been submitted for publication and can not be changed.

Even for that purpose an argument could be made that those poems no longer have a place in a poetry workshop environment, however it is good to have them here if the revision history is available to see how the poem has developed.

But, the option is being used just to avoid responding to feedback. If it is kept at all it should perhaps read "Submitted for Publication" or something unambiguous like that.

What do you think?

Even that publication issue is moot.

I may have published many poems, that doesn't mean that I can't or won't revise them on Neopoet.

I think it is important for the membership to know that a poem has been published. One may choose to post it here, with or without revisions. As a matter of fact the fact that one would revise the poem after publication speaks much for the continued perfection of the poem.

So, perhaps an option indicating that the poem has been published but the poet is actively revising and needs critique would be in order. Or that the poem is being posted to evidence the type of poem that has been published.

Two separate possibilities under one heading.

It should never be used to dissuade participation in the critiquing process. This is something I am adamant about.

~A

each time I see that I know there's one less poem I'm not expected to read other than quickly. Leaves more time to nit pick others lol..............scribbler

Good point Amal, and I bow to it.

However, I question if that is the *INTENT*.....as it is already part and parcel of our activities on the site. Hence my *issues*. Most of our *critiquing* is voicing our reactions to the poem's content. Not the other way around---as you would suggest.

So, since we already are very apt in giving our take on the content of the poem, with little honest-to-goodness critiquing, your point doesn't have a leg to stand on, so to speak, in this discussion, and the *INTENT* is to garner accolades without critique.

Psyve is the only one, so far, that is exempt. His poems are already accomplished works of music.

~A

Not all accolades are non-critical. If the responder worded their review/comment/critique in such a manner then an accolade may in fact be a positive critique. Just a minute observation. The point in fact is the INTENT as has already been stated many times over. And I suppose it would be next to impossible to police intent and unfair to those with good intentions to be penalised because of the ones that would misuse and abuse the feature. That's up to about 5 cents now. :-)

__________________________________________________
'Break, break break on thy cold grey stones, O Sea.'

Only IF the accolades come with reasons why and whether or not the responder feels/thinks no changes need be made...and addresses the parts of the poem that might be better with
some edit.

Between my 5 cents and your 5 cents we have a dime. Ten times a penny for our thoughts, and more than 10 times a chance in hell that anything will change.

~A

Which ties in with another 5 cents in response to your blog entry on ideas to address/resolve the issue of critiquing.

__________________________________________________
'Break, break break on thy cold grey stones, O Sea.'

"Psyve is the only one, so far, that is exempt. His poems are already accomplished works of music"

Anna, that is very kind of you. I am honoured that you would think so.

I have often wondered what option to choose when selecting "Editing Stage" : all of the work I have shared here was written between 20 and 35 years ago. These are all songs I have sung several hundred times...albeit mostly for my own pleasure.... over the years, and have grown comfortable with...like old friends. The honest fact is that I have not been actively editing them at this stage, though that does not mean I am not OPEN to editing them.

It simply explains why I have chosen "Not Actively Editing" option under editing stage.

The fact that I also choose "I want the raw truth: feel free to knock me on my back" hopefully indicates that I am not looking for accolades. I honestly want to know what people FEEL when they read / hear these songs.

I consider my lyric has been successful if I can make the reader / listener FEEL something... if he /she is MOVED.

Did you FEEL anything? THAT is the feedback I am looking for and that is the feedback I tend to GIVE others. My feedback is therefore usually about the sensations / memories a particular piece has evoked in me: about what I, as the reader, FELT.

If my selection of "Not actively editing" has been misunderstood by anyone as being anything else, I am sorry, but that was never my intention.

I would be mortified if I thought that that innocent selection has made anyone hesitate to leave an honest comment or a critique on my work.

Psyve

However it is only respectful to repond when someone has gone to the thought and trouble to offer suggestions. When I feel I can't accept a suggestion I explain why, and in the process often understand my own work better and perhaps find other ways to improve it.

Choosing the "not currently editing" option is like a rude blanket rejection.

I do happen to comment mostly on structure and form only because there is, as Anna pointed out, already a surfeit of reaction to content and a pitiful dearth of useful constructive feedback. I do wish people would try harder.

We have lost Kelsey, Brian and Jon's fantastic forums on feedback which is something I will start to address anon.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Your points read and taken. However, let's REVIEW the GUIDELINES that ESTABLISHED Neopoet.

http://new.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

Community Guidelines

Here are a few concise guidelines for members. Please read them - they will make your experience here much more enjoyable.

What is this site? We can be thought of as a poetry workshop. We are here to share poetry, ideas, and improve as writers. We also like to meet new people and make friendships. We are a democratic, member-ran community.

Consider your audience. We’re not a place to list every piece of work you’ve ever written. Please only post the work that is currently the primary focus of your editing and attention.

We ask, as a guideline, that you do not post more than one work a day in the "stream". You may, however, post multiple poems if you are doing so as part of an organized workshop.

Grow. Neopoet is a place for growing poets. Some new members seem almost insulted when fellow poets suggest there’s room to improve. An isolated critique or two might be dead wrong, of course. But when you hear a chorus, listen.

We believe that every person who joins us can improve their writing. If you feel discouraged by a chorus of criticism, you might consider asking one of our mentors to help you with your writing.

Be respectful. You aren’t going to love every poem on this site. That seems obvious. But there’s a writer behind every work - so be respectful. If a poem isn’t your favorite, feel free to share constructive criticism. But keep in mind the scope of criticism requested by a poet. We allow poets to communicate their preferences - everything from, “this is a sensitive subject for me” to “I want the raw truth”. But no matter what’s asked in terms of critique - be diplomatic. Keep a cool head. This is not a place for the mudslinging and flaming found on internet forums. Personal attacks and the like are not allowed.

Critique, don't comment. Neopoet is a workshop environment. You are not going to like every comment you get. This does not mean that you can take every little comment personally. If you hear your poem needs work, it's not an attack -- it's an opening to improve yourself as a writer. Comments, however, about a member's race, sex, sexual preference, religion (or lack of religion), disability, or other personal, immutable status are not allowed. Critique must be about the poem, not about the poet. If you do receive a comment that veers into the personal, report them to the AEC along with proof so that they may take appropriate action after an investigation. However, critique about poetry is certainly allowed and encouraged -- not everything you receive will be complementary, though hopefully all feedback you receive will suggest ways you can improve.

Play fair. Be honest. Avoid conflicts of interest. Do not try to rate other poems in a way to give your poetry a competitive edge, or try to "game" the system. Don't specifically ask others to rate your work. If you have a substantial connection to a person outside of Neopoet, avoid any appearance of a conflict of interest -- do not vote on their work, and ask them not to vote on yours.

Contribute. Be an active member. Read. Comment. But go beyond that - if you are an experienced poet, offer to mentor rising talent. Consider joining the Advocate program. If you have any ideas to improve the site, let us know - tell the member coordinator or the technology team.

Help build our culture. The one thing that sets Neopoet apart is our culture. It’s not just the words on our site - it’s the people here. If you see a new member that might need help, help out. Be warm, friendly, diplomatic.

This site - is - and always will be - in motion. Everything can grow and change and improve. Even this page you are reading now. If you have an idea, discuss it in the forum, with other members, contact the AEC or the Trustees and we’ll help you make it happen.

Please note, Amal:

"Critique, don't comment. Neopoet is a workshop environment."

and frankly, amal, I don't give a damn about the percentages. If we lost 80% because they don't want to be part of a poetry workshop, terrific! [weirdelf whoops and jigs for joy]. Those people [whatever %, and it's not 80] would be better off at a site that caters to them, and there are many.

In fact I believe most people are here to improve but find it confronting to give, and sometimes get, critique. As I mentioned earlier there were some great forums here giving help on giving critique but plans are in place to have not only forums like that but interactive workshops on the subject.

Bottom line, Amal and ilk, Neopoet is a poetry workshop so, as Longo lovingly said to me recently, shit or get off the pot.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Do you read anyone elses comments right through?

Try my comment below, it's short, I'll even quote it for you-

Neopoet Guidelines

"Please only post the work that is currently the primary focus of your editing and attention."

http://new.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

I think that whether or not "Not currently Editing" is useful depends on the comments on the poem in question.
If I come across a poem with no comments and "Not Currently Editing", in all likelihood I am not going to take the time or trouble to read it, because obviously the author isn't interested in my opinion, and my time is too limited to waste on reading something someone does not want help with.
If on the other hand I find a poem that has many comments that the author has actively responded to, and I see that changes were made to the poem, and I see "Not Curently Editing", then I will read it, because the author wanted critique, and even if the author now feels that the work needs no further editing, it is to me still worth looking at, just to follow the changes, and understand why they were made, or not made.

Respectfully, Jim

"Laws and Rules don't kill freedom: narrow-minded intolerance does" - Race-9togo

http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/Race_9togo

"Please only post the work that is currently the primary focus of your editing and attention."

http://new.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Although it is a truth universally accepted that my output is as near perfection as one could achieve, nevertheless I am always willing to accept well-intentioned critique of my conjugations and any other conjugal rights.

Ian

TIME FLIES LIKE AN ARROW, BUT FRUIT FLIES LIKE A BANANA

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