firstly go above and scroll down ....this work
you will realize only these
lead neopoets
publish and are read and commented upon

at times many feel left out
nor does one come to know
how many have read you
as we could know
in times gone by

who are the newcomers?

none come to know
few are outspoken like me

let this be a site of workshops
and help all those
who still think poetry needs to be taught

I for one do not know
much of the ins and outs of poetry
yet whether my default or willingly
those who read me
are a minuscule only
Ian for one
Alid,now quite often

humbly a final submission
''all poets...''

we all know want some sort of recognition

so before one voluntarily does post ..
at the end he/she must state
the poetry(s) where they did comments post

one way for self respect

self respect is more essential than ego

did I say too much if so say so!

I posted a blog about this but it has apparently been over looked. The earlier idea posted on this thread having to do with requiring comment before allowing a poem to be posted? I heard back from Andrew about the idea. He told me this had been tried before (apparently before I got here) and the result was an increase in comments but a dramatic drop in quality of comments. A lot of "Great poem!, Well penned!, Loved it!" and such.
He did say it was technically feasible though it would take a while to install. But before asking him to go ahead, I think we need to come up with a way to make sure that a comment only count if it's worth a damn. I don't think it would be right for a person or persons be asked or expected to review comments almost as they're made then decide if it should count.

I Did have an idea that Might work most of the time. How about a comment having to contain a certain number of words or letters before it counts? At least it would weed out minor applause. And by having to think of something substantial in length perhaps something which is substantial in content would also come to mind.

i by no means think I'm the only one capable of coming up with a good idea so let's hear others' thoughts on this.........stan

I know you would take this up as soon as you can. Good to know you are now on the Panel of Mentors, a role which you certainly are worthy of and would deliver effectively.

Regards,

Thank you for your points I wish all members would start to take part in the overall site not just the stream, but the workshops and other parts of Neopoet.
I put a few Blogs out about the number of poets that don't even answer comments and the number of poems only receiving one or two comments, I sent a PM to many poets about joining in Barbara's Renga and it is now an established workshop which quite a few attend each month.
There seems to be a lack of wanting to belong to a site as Neopoet, other sites I have seen have an element of fun attached to them, we need to bring the fun in and at the same time carry out the teaching aspect of the site.
Probably there should be two levels of streaming, one for workshops and one for casual poetry, not sure what to say otherwise.
These sites as anything else evolve, waxing and waning, it takes up a lot of my time, I know that, and not many have the same amount of time as I have and the workshop on critique was a good example of how to be a part of Neopoet.
Bring back the number of reads counter,
A notice board would help.
Bring in a competitive element.
I remember one site I was on a few years ago and it had a café, instead of calling a place a chat room, it was much more active than our chat room here.
I suggested a way back, about each country putting in a poem at a certain time of the day, if you take that yesterday was the equinox which means that the sun rises at the same time where
ever you are, and sets at the same time, we could use this day as a celebration of poetry, and each place submits poetry at sunrise on that day or sunset, probably about the climate, or some such event.
That's enough for today will talk later,
Take care out there all of you,
Yours as always Ian.T
PS:- next equinox is in March next year so you will have plenty of time to sort something out LOL

where the mass was said all around the world every day continuously. Grand concept! Of course they had to threaten to burn Galileo before they could make that doctrine, dumb cunts.

You had me right up to the round the world bit. It would be nice to see some chatroom life. Does the indicator still work? Telling you if there is someone in chat waiting to talk?

I would like some random or organised chat now and then.

As a returning newcomer, I enjoyed this site but admit it is lacking in a few essentials I believe I may be able to help with. Though I won't get into those now, I do have a suggestion that may work to get more users reviewing.

We are, for the most part, an intellectual and social breed of human. We use poetry to convey emotions any which way but directly. Using metaphors, similes, assonance, imaginative descriptors and even hide what were saying within the first letters of each line? Why would we expect most people to directly tell us what they really think or feel about what they just read? We expect it because we ourselves are looking for validation of our own emotions or intellectual prowess, that they got what we were trying to tell them as a writer as how we wrote it.

Therefore the conflict arises between submitting poems vs. reviewing poems. Therefore the conflict also arises between appraising and praising a workpiece.

Telling poets they must review any kind of minimum number of poems prior to being able to submit any number of poems is manipulating and controlling, eventually leading to them finding elsewhere to get what they want without giving what others want. Ultimately, this site has a lack of membership - paid or not.

So what is an acceptable solution? It's right there out in front...

I wondered when I first rejoined this site why there were different "pools" and what I would need to do to participate. I found out, with the minor difference in writing difficulty, there was no bias. Why not use those levels as rewards for improving one's craft of poetry? What's better to improve one's craft than appraising work from peers?

Here's my blueprint. Any new member is automatically in the Splash pool, no reviewing requirements. They may submit one poem per 24 hour basis(as is now such the case) with the exception of a paid subscription.

If a poet would like to advance themselves to the next level of pool, they need to make and maintain a requirement for reviewing poems (commenting, praising, appraising, critiquing etc.), even if it's just a "hey, great poem!". providing they maintain their reviewing requirement they would be allowed to post poems proportional to the number of poems they review in a tiered system (ie. 1 review/day = 1 submit/day, 2-10 reviews/day = 2 submits/day, 11-20 reviews/day = 3 submits/day etc.) to a maximum of 3 submits/day.

For the more avid poet, the next level would need to commit more to the site, but also have the advantage of experiencing some perks. Once a poet has reviewed a prerequisite amount of poems, say 300. That poet may enter the next level of pool. I propose this is where the Olympic pool comes in, since this is where the real poet is going to come out. Olympic pool members would have access to poetry contests with prizes that could include but not limited to: free premium membership for 3,6, 9 months or even a year, featured poet status that could include highlighting the featured winning poem and a spotlight on the poet, unlimited poem submissions, e-coupons, publishing in an e-book along with past and future contest winning poets. It could literally include anything. In return, the Olympic pool poet would be required to maintain a poem review quota, and be involved in a workshop for effective reviewing practices. Their poems "could" have advanced reviewing options (drop down menus, an additional comment field, a rating function or something not available to prior pool levels to access). Olympic pool members would still be able to get feedback from all users, but would also be able to receive and expect honest, experienced, knowledgeable critiquing from their fellow peers.

For a poet to enter the next level of pool from the Olympic pool, they gotta get Gold, Silver or Bronze based on how helpful their reviewing is to other members (yes, a democratic system or maybe a popularity contest. No difference really, but it's effective). Each month three poets, after meeting a decided criteria, are chosen to enter the plunge pool.

After this, is beyond my comprehension regarding how this site operates and what goes into it. I sincerely hope I was concise about getting my suggestion across. I do believe this will entice members to join if they know about it. I also wholeheartedly believe this is a system no other site has, it will make this site stand out above all the rest, and if the technical structure can back it up, it will be the number one poetry site on the world wide web - period.

It is nice of you to propose suggestions in an objective manner and with good intentions. Chrys would certainly respond to that. Meantime, I wish to draw your attention to the following aspects:-

1. Most of the measures proposed by you are on the basis of metrics to determine the qualification norms and the perks proposed for each category. However, as rightly pointed out by you, to have such system in place would need lot of technical support. We do have a team of dedicated professionals and they would need to evaluate possibilities of implementing each suggestion put to them on the basis of a) consensus and b) available financial resources
2. As is often commented upon here, there are only a handful of Members who are willing to take on roles & responsibilities related to Neopoet. Consequently, it becomes difficult for them to do more than what they wish to do given the other family responsibilities they need to deliver.
3. As is known, for any project to continually progress and even to sustain, there is is a need to have adequate resources in terms of human resource, time & money, relative inadequacy of which I believe is the area which needs to attention.

Having said the above, it is very nice of you to apply your mind while coming up with the suggestions, which are most welcome, thoughtful and hopefully would be looked at closely by the committee. It would be good if you can play a more engaging role in times ahead.

Regards & thanks,

???

I failed to be able to view any recent comments as they were apparently on a second page of this thread and no "next page>>" in sight. Prompting me to add additional comment to see the last one. Am I missing something?

If it's a simple matter of metrics then I've laid out most of the groundwork for it. Combining it with technical aspects could be as simple as reworking the current code programming here and there to as complicated as totally revamping the entire layout. I'm not a computer programmer, it's not my area of expertise, but I believe it can be done.

Human nature has proven time and again that passion dictates effort and commitment. If a user can find his/her passion in our site our "handful" of human resources will grow accordingly to closely fit our needs if not be over-abundant. Perhaps that is too much positive thinking and/or naivety, but I've seen it happen in other cases. Everyone wants to be part of something great, this site should be no different.

In regards to resources including time, effort and money it'll be sketchy indeed. It depends on the reach of our founders.

I feel you have misunderstood the nature of the Pools. It is not a grading system, advancing one to the other. Splash is an introduction for newcomers with simple contents, Olympic introduces deeper forms and themes and Shark is for deepest themes, techniques, subtext and strong feedback. Especially all 3 introduce deeper levels of critical feedback. "Critique don't comment" is Neopoet's Prime Directive. http://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines. That is why we are not a big workshop. Not all poets want to be challenged to improve their work.

There is a Stream to work on general poems and Workshops to work on specific styles and techniques

Neopoet runs only on Premium memberships and contributions and can not afford prizes even in the form of lost income from free memberships.

Neopoet needs to promote new membership through Facebook and other social media, perhaps competitions or featured poems and a poem-counter, so that people can see at a glance if their poetry is read and wonder why.
cheers
Jess

I fully understand the nature of the pools, I understand they are optional depending on how each person feels of their competence or skill level. This is exactly the reason it could be used as, not as a grading system, but rather as a competency system. Users could still have the option of staying within a comfortable pool, but the ideology behind it is progressive. A person who reviews one poem every year probably would not have the skillset to play in the Olympic pool, whereas someone who is passionate about writing and the art of poetry would benefit greatly from reading and commenting on so many poems via exposure.

Albeit, someone could surely cheat at the commentary... but they wouldn't be rewarded for it and would ultimately put them at a disadvantage in the more progressive pools. Whereas a poet who genuinely reads each poem and makes a comment, (even if it's not a critique), would greatly benefit from observing different writings and styles. Which is a great tool for learning and improving... by example. The workshops for each pool can still operate as they always have, but it would certainly alleviate the stress and frustration faced by admin trying to pressure people into critiquing poems when sometimes all an author wants is simple validation. Also, it would alleviate most tension when working in a progressed workshop with poets who are ill-experienced.

These are only suggestions, a free membership prize would be great, but if it's out of the scope for the financial state of this site than there are numerous other ways to reward winning poets that are not monetary but are equally as valuable to, say, one's ego. Which, when it comes to submitting to poetry contests, is what it all comes down to - validation of ego.

Promoting the site through Facebook is an excellent idea, and don't get me wrong I applaud all the suggestions made on this forum, but as Raj pointed out if the fundamental structure isn't ready for members it will be in vain. I see all the hard work and improvements that have gone into this place since I was here last time and it's all due to the diligence of the founders and from every single person on this site who are fighting to keep it striving. I would like to include myself in that last statement but I'm still new and I'm not sure what else I can do other than make suggestions that sound logical to me.