About workshops

Workshops on Neopoet are groups that meet for a certain period of time to focus on a certain aspect of poetry. Each workshop participant is asked to critique all the other poems submitted into a workshop. A workshop leader helps coordinate -- they set the agenda, give participants feedback on whether their submissions and critique are at they level expected of them, and after the workshop is over, give feedback to participants. 

To join a workshop, first find one that is of interest to you. Once you have found the right workshop (and verified that it is open -- you can find this out in the description below), you can apply to join the workshop.


Join the Neopoet online poetry workshop and community to improve as a writer, meet fellow poets, and showcase your work. Sign up, submit your poetry, and get started.

Shark Pool (initial workshop)

Status: 
Program description/goal: 

Description:

Workshop for 'serious' poets who are ready to start honing their craft. More critical feedback and in depth critique will be offered by each other and from the Moderators/Leaders.

Pamela (Pamela A. Lamppa) (Co-Leader)
Chez (CCFire) (Co-Leader)
Jess (weirdelf) (Co-Leader)
------------------------------------------

WORKSHOP - Critique Skills:

DON'T BE INTIMIDATED- THIS WORKSHOP IS ALL ABOUT US LEARNING TO HELP EACH OTHER IMPROVE OUR WORK, CRITIQUE AND UNDERSTANDING OF POETRY. IT TAKES CRITIQUE, THE LIFEBLOOD OF NEOPOET TO A NEW LEVEL. ALL SERIOUS POETS WILL BENEFIT.

Workshop commences - 16 May 2011

This workshop is intended to build skills in serious critical feedback. Participants will not take into account the poet's feelings when presenting critique and ideas for improvement of a piece, although all site and workshop guidelines regarding abuse and personal attacks will be firmly adhered to. This is not an adversarial workshop, it is a tough workshop to improve ourselves in critique in order to help other poets and ourselves in our craft.

Up to 10 participants. First come first in, anyone who misses a place will be reserved a place in succeeding workshops. Applicants to apply by Private Message to weirdelf.

Each participant brings one poem in rough draft form to the workshop. Submitted sequentially, we deal with each poem before moving on to the next. As there probably won't be time in 14 days to cover all 10 poems the leaders will choose a few of the submissions to be worked on, unless there is a determination amongst the participants to extend the workshop beyond the allotted 14 days. The emphasis is on the critique more than the individual poems.

The Process.

A commitment of 14 days is required, you'll need to check in as often as possible. [For those people with limited access to computer time please contact Dan (Hooded Stranger) or me (weirdelf) and we will look into arranging alternatives.]

Each participant will write a brief critique of the poem describing what the poem is about, what it means to you personally, any “layers of meaning” or “subtext” you detect, how it works and why, how it doesn't work and why and suggestions for improvement.

Critiques will scrutinize form, content and originality. Highly subjective responses are acceptable but must be explained. The entire validity of a poem may be questioned.
This will be followed by a round of critique of the critiques by each participant.

The poet may respond, accepting critique or arguing a defense, explaining intent, then posting edits, if any. The purpose here is to allow the poet to interact in a constructive manner with the criticism, not to launch a debate.

Each participant will provide a final critique after edits, if any, are made.

Each participant will write a final critique of the critiques.

Spelling, punctuation and grammar in critiques will be subject to correction.

This may sound like a lot of work but the emphasis is on succinctness. Original critiques will probably not exceed 200 words (a mere Facebook posting [grins]) and following critiques much shorter.

Length: 
14 days
Number of participants (limit): 
10 people
Skill level: 
Date: 
Monday, May 16, 2011 to Monday, May 30, 2011

Comments

may you weather the storm well.

I am sorry you can't join us, your input would be invaluable.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

May i join this workshop, i don't see any way to join up. Regards Roscoe..

Roscoe Llane,

Religion will rip your faith off, and return
for the mask of disbelief that's left.

just Private message weirdelf (Jess) that's how you Join.
Eddie C.

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

I'm looking forward to this, it should be fun.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

you're in, my dear, and I very much look forward to working with you.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Hmmm. Dancing with the stars or swimming with the sharks? What to do, what to do?

Count me in. ... I like the arrangement, already have my mesh suit ready.

~A

Much love

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

too many other fish to fry at this time. Maybe next go around?...........stan

Our varied perspectives will add a valuable dimension to any workshop!

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

I may be able to extend a little over 10 because some participants will have limited access.

This workshop will rock! And I promise it will be beneficial to all.

Critique is the lifeblood of Neopoet.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Jess I'd love to join this group - unfortunately I have very limited access to the internet these days! Not to mention my time is limited as well. I wish I could join, it's certain to be a productive workshop!

It is such a secret place, the land of tears. ~Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

Several people have said they lack time so I am going to discuss with Dan structuring some future workshops with time limitations in mind, say once a week commitment, would that help?

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

I'm looking forward to this workshop ...

thanks for having me!

Richard

look at the list of participants, this is going to be a bloody beauty!

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

a great idea for sure. I was wondering how to enter a poem into the Shark Pool?
Greetings Erwin

We'll ask everyone to submit a poem to work on when we get started but we probably won't get to them all.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Thanks Jess, and I'm already sharpen my teeth (lol)

but to save time will all participants who have poems they wish to work on email them to me at
[email protected]
Pamela, Chez and I will choose which ones to work on.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Every participant who wants their poem in the Shark Pool needs to email them to me at
[email protected]
I can't guarantee we will get to it, but remember, this workshop is about the critique.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

test workshop comment

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

http://new.neopoet.com/node/4098
comment there.

no other shark pool workshops will be on the stream, bookmark
http://new.neopoet.com/workshop/shark-pool-open
all other poems will be presented there.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Suggestion: Since this is a 2 week workshop (began on the 16th) and there are 11 of us, (today is the 18th) let us endeavor to keep the time for each poem no more than 24 hrs that each one of us may have a poem workshoped.

Fair enough?

~A

But we can't put a strict time on it. The members of this group range from GMt
+11 to GMT -11

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Ok. However, 24 hours covers a full day wherever the time zone begins.

It's also called commitment.

~A

I am working with dan over a series of workshops where only once a week commitment is required.

Neopoet time is very weird. 24 hours feels like a week. Have patience. We will get to the new one very soon.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Hahaha.

weird science for neopoets.

Patience, is one of my least available attributes, one could say I lack patience. Something I work at my whole life, yet I have infinite patience, sometimes.

~A

No Escaping Neglect

You know me,
I was there from your start.
It's ok pretend I don't exist,
the fear of me
is not yet in those happy eyes

Living recklessly
enjoying every vice.
My visit you do not
Expect

I am with you in your bed
when you awaken
and go off to work.
I sit with you
in the car and also on the train.

Still the denial,
until I have you breathing
that last breathe
or when I have my knee
pressed hard against your chest

I love it when you scream
while I'm looking
right in your face,
Then you beg for help
wide eyed towards
The sky

I turn mockingly
as if expecting
A lighting bolt
to strike me dead

I look back at your face
filled with fear
for I know that no one
will come to save the day

Know this
you die I don't
I am his revenge
once I have you in my grip
there is no escape.

I watch and see
the extinguishing
of your life.
My grin I can not erase
from my face

Is there a chance
I'll let you go
You should have thought
Before all this neglect

by Eduardo Cruz

.
.
.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Jess, do I assume correctly that we post our critiques on this thread?

My critique for this poem will have to incubate, which is a good thing.

~A

where else?

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

It's not that cut and dry Jess, last time I thought it would be on this thread and it wasn't Nevel's poem was on a page of its own. (shit I'm rhyming now, holy cow!)

~

Yes, from now on the whole workshop will happen on this page to keep it out of the Stream.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Eddie, I like the dark realm you've delved in ... but there
seems to be lots wrong with this, main thing being the word
neglect ... neglect seems to be a pretty soft way
of expressing the abandonment issues this subject must be
feeling to get to the point of a killing ... now,

Stanza 1 ... very good lead in

Line 2 ... from your start, start of what?

Stanza 2 ... gives me a clue that this is a wife/lover that
has left and is living the fast life.

Stanza 3 ... seems passive for the content, could be
much stronger summed up in one line (just an opinion)

Stanza 4 ... the last breathe ... it would be the last breath.
You give us two images in this stanza, I would incorporate
the two to make it one image, take out the "or" and own it.

Stanza's 5, 6 and 7 ... all great images, wording could be
improved a bit but the images were there, so I'd leave those
alone for a while and work out the rest.

Stanza 8 ... Here's where you throw me, who is this person
seeking revenge for, is he/she killing for god? After I think I
know your subject, I am wondering ... and that I like a lot,
although not the religious ideals that a person should be killed
for being an easy lay, a fornicating fool or whatever way it should
or could be said, and now I'm trying to figure out the content again,
and sometimes I gotta say that leaving the reader wondering is a
damn good thing.

Number 9 ... another very strong image.

and the last one, seems unneeded, there is already a corpse
at this point, perhaps think about removing this one altogether.

I was going to try and sum up the way I felt about this poem in
a couple of hundred words, but after reading it a few times and
realizing I couldn't, I did it this way ...

Thank you Eddie for submitting this piece ...

Richard

I have failed to convey the point of this poem through bad grammar and not being clear. this is not about faith it is about what we do to our bodies, What is with you from the "start" is "death" and we all seem to be in a rush to get there, but we do not believe that death will get us because that happens to other people. but when death has us by throat, then it's another story. You know that I do not believe in God. I believe in the Universe, and the only temple I know is my body, my God is the living earth. My focus of in this poem is the body. and people who say they believe in God yet they don't call for him/her until it's to late so in the poem I mock their belief. by saying no one will come to save the day when I said "I am his revenge" it was suppose to have read "I am its revenge" referring to the body. so I am sorry that my poem did not clarify its center.

I rewrote it and will post it at the end of these critique's

thank you very Richard but I seem to not have been clear.

Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

Richard

I think you have done a fine job pointing out the portions that threw you in this submission, and I like it that you thanked the author for submitting the piece for critique.

You have asked legitimate questions in this review which will help the author to hone clarity while modifying this work.

I realize that you know Eddie, so your approach is more casual but we should not throw out our writing tools as a result. Your critique, to be credible, should be free from spelling, punctuation and grammatical errors.

Typos that are missed should be corrected as soon as they are noticed, but for the most part, the critique you offer should be as professional and grammatically correct as possible.

For example: "... but there seems to be lots wrong with this, main thing being the word neglect ..."

It is casual language which in a more professional setting will not give your critique credibility. However, offering a casual critique as an aside to a friend is probably ok.

It would have been more proficient to write:

“Though there are several things that need work in this submission, I was particularly confused with the use of the word "neglect". “

...and then go on to explain why the word does not fit.

Something like this lends credibility to the critique while it takes the writer out of the poem. We are not critiquing the author, only the submission. We are writers and as writers, we should always present a working knowledge of our ability to use language properly in any written presentation we produce.

This is a workshop for learning how to give and receive a good critique which is why I have pointed out the approach taken with this particular critique.

All in all, several good points are offered to the writer that will be helpful to him but, to be credible, presentation is key.

~Pamela

.. .

~"It's ALL about the Poetry~

Please join us in The Shark Pool

You are so right !
I try to read every poem like I don't know the person,
but it is apparent that I need to work on presenting a
more professional tone to a critique.

thank you, I am here to learn.

Richard

Eddie, the language you have used in this is narrative but perhaps that's where it falls down slightly. It tells the story all the way through and I was almost hoping as I read for a little more 'show' which would involve some metaphor and poetic device. To liken a normal action or scene to something that makes the reader's imagination get up and take flight with the piece. Like a movie scene tends to do. The beginning isn't strong enough for me to be enticed into the piece and I'd prefer some bolder way of making that statement of 'you know me' which is a cliche at best. I am concentrating on that first stanza because the start needs to grab your audience to want to know where you are taking them. The simplicity I do enjoy in narrative but sometimes it just needs a boost and I feel that's where yours does for the moment. When I dissect more I will be back.

Chez
"The perfect woman perpetrates literature as she does a small sin: as an experiment, in passing, to see if anybody notices it - and to makes sure that somebody does." - Nietzsche

I thank you and you are correct, clarity is most important the story must grab you right from the start and carry you to its end.

again thank you!

Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

Chez

You have provided Eddie with concise and concrete areas to review and work on in order to make this piece work.

You discuss use of poetic device, ask the writer to "show" more than "tell" the tale and give him what it takes to make the poem hit home.

A very good critique all around.

~Pamela

.. .

~"It's ALL about the Poetry~

Please join us in The Shark Pool

Sometimes when I don't know what to say, I say nothing. I am guilty of it now.

I think, Eddie, you haven't found your own poetic voice... the one that stands the test of time, the one that is uniquely yours and in perfect sync with your *Way*, so to speak.

In my opinion and experience, when the poet finds his/her poetic voice, s/he will be able to
string together all things that s/he meets along the daily activity of life, the truths that s/he finds
self-evident, and those things that are core issues that motivate poets into words, into the action of giving our thoughts the pristine setting that is ours and ours alone....to write our heart of hearts.

If you keep that in mind, and think through what you want to say, feel the poetic language you want to say it with, you will rewrite this poem and say aha...so this is the....way....

~Anna

Yes poetic voice, for me it still comes and goes, but bad grammar never helps either.
we'll see on the re-write if I get to aha! Maybe more like hahaha!

thanks Anna,
Honesty is all I ever ask for, that's how I learn.

Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

workshop crit

hi Eduardo, I read this more as prose, chopping up into stanzas, rather than poetry. Your story-line is clear, too clear by only telling, instead of a balance with showing by adding some kind of brevity, by means of imagery, or any kind of poetic device. Stanza 8, L3 could be a subtile personification of your anger, but I'm not sure. Is this a personal write? If so, it's understandable and harder to distill a good poem from it. Is your poem dealing with your anger? No need to cap each line, punctuation can be more effectiver used to make the flow better. Suggestion: perhaps you can add some rhyming lines, and/or alliterations if you wish. Although the theme isn't my "cup of tea", my senses were not quite stimulated, a point of attention maybe.So far my first impressions.
Greetings,
Erwin

(a poem a day keeps the doctor away)

I have to be honest and please do not be offended, but I am not sure what you are saying, there's a lot of words that do not say nothing to me, I think your saying it sucked. I wish you would have just said that, because it would have been what you truly felt and truth to me means everything.maybe you can be clearer on why it sucked that would help me.

thanks Nevel

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

I think you misread intentionally my crit, do not put words into my mouth please.

If you feel a comment is over harsh, say so but explain!

I really feel this poem failed as an allegory. You need to address that.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Eduardo

I will do my best to provide you with an honest review of this work. Please keep in mind that most critiques are subjective and opinion weighs heavily with each reader.

A reader easily absorbs the twisted thread of not having trod the gilded path, of having rejected the wholesome life for earthly pleasures that penetrates this work. It is a common perspective used to present a poem that is faith oriented.

Having said as much, the poem lends itself to cliché.

There is nothing wrong with writing about this topic, but I think this idea could be presented differently, with a bit more intensity to make the theme seem new - refreshed.

For example, you might take an element of the poem - such as the scream - and enhance it. Use imagery and metaphor to make that scream the deepest and darkest there ever was. Then, when one comes to the end, they might find that twist - the sudden realization that it all could have been avoided had s/he simply held true to God and not neglected him. Now, s/he is simply stuck in Satan's grip and the end is inevitable. (Just an idea).

Technically - I am not certain why "Expect" is capitalized. (S2,L3) I don't think it should be and "breathe" should be "breath." (S4,L3). I would stay away from using too many gerunds and keep the poem in present tense. A bit of honing for brevity will move this work away from prose and into poetry. Punctuation is needed as well to help with flow.

I think most who read this presentation will understand its meaning but as mentioned earlier, it has been done, been said and is old news. Find a new and exciting way to present this ageless message. Say it like it has never been said before. The impact on a reader will be far greater.

I hope you have found this critique to be positive and helpful. Thank you for the opportunity to read and absorb your words. ~Pamela

.. .

~"It's ALL about the Poetry~

Please join us in The Shark Pool

First let me say you have a pretty face, great pic.

I do not believe in God, as far as me being clear you are right and the scream should come from the terror within. this is not about God or Satan because I do not know them. I know that I take good care of my body and that is what this poem is about. it's about people who later call on a none existing God to save them when death has them in its grip, that's why in the poem Death mocks their belief. the only temple I know is my body and to me God is the living earth. what is wrong here is that I never made it clear where i was going with this, plus bad grammar. so for that I am sorry.
I re-wrote it and it will be at the end of these comments,

thank you Pam your honesty is so much appreciated!
I truly mean that your common was very clear and to the point

Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

It begins "The thousand injuries of Fortunato I had borne as I best could, but when he ventured upon insult I vowed revenge." This poem reminds me of that. The injuries and insults are never specified. Neglect? Let the punishment fit the crime.

Is this the profile of a "mad" killer? If so it lacks any insight into that madness. Only the line "I am his revenge indicates a split personality. "The victim has no say at all, which may be appropriate, she is an objectified victim.

Why did you write this? I find it disturbing, yes, but it provides no insight into the situation, no back story, little motive. It is not even a stalker. "I am with you in your bed
when you awaken
and go off to work.
I sit with you
in the car and also on the train."

What did you want to say? I don't get it. It's a voyeuristic portrayal of murder with few redeeming features.

My grin I can not erase [would read better without the inversion, screw the rhyme)
I can not erase my grin.

Overall this poem strikes me as shock value rather than having qualities of depth and meaning. Anything you care to do about that?

[207 words!]

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

You are right it is about shock, but more to shock people into realizing that you can't wait for the bdy to be in the grip of death to then decide to do something when it's to late.
I re-wrote it as soon as I read the first comment by Richard. I was so far in the way I rtied to express it that the point never came across. It was shit and I admit it.
I have re-postede he here at the end of the comments.

thanks Jess this is a good workshop.
Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

Eddie had to explain the meaning in reply to Richards critique. Those of you that got even close I suspect read that reply. Let's look harder for the meaning, folks, and if that is missing or inscrutable, that is grounds for critique too.

I think the poem fails in intent, it does not carry its allegory or meaning and, as has been commented, few poetic values.

My advice? Through the mincer with this one, add some spices, roll it into coherent meatballs and serve with blood sauce.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

No Escaping Neglect
by Eduardo Cruz

You know me I was there
from the day you were born
It's ok pretend I don't exist,
the fear of me
is not yet in those happy eyes
You know my name
say it, DEATH!

You’ve lived recklessly
enjoying every vice
polluting your body
Making it easy for me
To take your life

I am with you in your bed
patiently I wait while you sleep
when you awaken and go off to work.
I sit with you in the car
also on the train

Still the denial
until I have you breathing
that last breath
or when I have my knee
pressed hard against your chest

I love it when you scream
As fear over takes your soul
while I'm looking right into your face,
then you beg for help
wide eyed towards
the sky

I turn and look up mockingly
as if expecting a lighting bolt
to strike me dead
but there is no one
who will answer your call

I look back at your face
filled with pain
for I know that no one
will come to save the day

Know this
you die I don't
I am your body’s revenge
once I have you in my grip
there is no escape.

I watch and see
the extinguishing
of your life.
my grin I can’t erase from my face
is there a chance
I'll let you go

You should have thought
before you let yourself fall
there will be no escaping
your bodies neglect

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

I have been reading this and I think all of the above make the same valid point that it's too non-committal throughout the entire thing. Perhaps a new title that would make it less obscure might be a place to start or a point of contact at least for the reader. As jess and pam alluded to there is no intent of why this is taking place and at least a title would ease that a little. This will take some major rewrites I think in making the tangible evident but I am sure you are up for that challenge. I keep seeing a murderous intent but it's not clear enough to know why or who or how.

Chez
"The perfect woman perpetrates literature as she does a small sin: as an experiment, in passing, to see if anybody notices it - and to makes sure that somebody does." - Nietzsche

but it needs a major re-write. It is a sordid story of a psychopathic murder. There are many hints and allusions you need to add.

At the same time, every poem doesn't have to be perfectly clear in meaning, open-ness to interpretation is the readers choice. But this, forgive me, is shallow, it lacks the depth you intended.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

?

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Well, My 2nd critique just disappeared!

I read and reread your rewrite, Eduardo. Now that your subject is abundantly clear, the stanzas offer too much show and tell and not enough for the reader to sink their teeth into. You know I am a fan of delving into the unknown.

You did a 180, pare down the stanzas, eliminate useless information and make the poem downright fucking frightening because Death is the breath on our necks that makes the hair stand on edge.

If one of us wrote this, would you read it all the way through? Be honest.

Another point: spelling, punctuation and grammar are points of finesse, after a poem has the skin on its bones, so to speak.

A good rewrite without the excess waits for your approval.

~A

I asked you not to do revisions until all the critique was in. We need to comment on the same poem and then get to revisions, ok?

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

My mistake.

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

is deep reading. Most poems on Neopoet are lovelorn lost, self revelation or cheap sentiment.

Let's write poems that have deep layers of meaning, allegory, profundity.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

I look forward to your re-write, I think you missed the point of your intent.

Anna, are you ready for your poem to be posted next?

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Sure. You can take anyone I've posted since my return or the one I sent you. Your choice. And may the Doleful Dance of my Lugubrious Hanging begin! (Jus' kiddin', I'm looking forward to it!)

Yours with reservations but no hesitation,

~A

Your critique have been very instructional. I hope and can re- write this using all the good suggestions given here.
Again thank you for your honesty
Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

flowing with the last Narcissus

you've taken meaning out of context
extracted sterling weights of measure
from the rings around the moon
you've heard the morning warbler awaken
the cacophony of receding stars
and touched the bark of sentiment hanging
loosely from the white river birch,
the tortoise head bobs
as he meanders into the vanishing horizon,
obliquely unaware: he may be the last of his kind,

so what does this say if not the sound that will break
the silence as footsteps travel up the mountain path
stepping on the heels of generations, your golden
hair standing up in arms,

come to my defense pleads the Aquarian mammal
and the cold wind from the North flatland smashes into her face
while the mountain caps plead insanity.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Anna

I will do my best to provide you with an honest review of this work. Please keep in mind that most critiques are subjective and opinion weighs heavily with each reader. I have not read any of the previous critiques or commentaries on this submission in order to remain objective.

There is a lot of imagery in this bit of poetic prose. I loved "receding stars" and "sentiment hanging loosely from the white river birch". Beautiful expressions.

I see early spring push for life on a dying earth; golden daffodil struggles to bloom - perhaps early only to be smitten by the last breaths of winter. This image is powerful to me and lends thought to caring more deeply for our earth.

I think more brevity in verse will move this work closer to poetry. For example:

"You've taken meaning out of context;
extracted sterling weights
from rings around the moon.

You've heard a morning warbler awaken
the cacophony of receding stars;
touched sentiment's bark hanging
loosely from white river birch."

The entire piece is one long sentence and without adequate punctuation, one loses the power in this work in order to take a breath. I think some punctuation is necessary or, perhaps none at all with well-placed line breaks for natural pauses.

All in all, this work has an ethereal feel to it as it personifies elements in nature.

I hope you have found this critique to be positive and helpful. Thank you for the opportunity to read and absorb your words. ~Pamela

.. .

~"It's ALL about the Poetry~

Please join us in The Shark Pool

Hi Pamela,

I tend to agree with you, the lengthy sentences give it a heavy prose feel, rather than the shorter, lighter poetic composition. Especially in the dark heavy atmosphere of this poem.

I'll rewrite it with that in mind after the critiques are in, ask for a vote. ;-)

I also had issues with some of the latter stanzas, saying exactly what I mean to give a clear picture to the *personification of nature* that may not be here, nor we to witness, should we not take clear steps to avert a *Silent Spring* (Rachel Carson's book)

Thank you Pamela, though I appreciate all critique, I am not ashamed to say I am happy to have one from a poet listed on PoemHunter.com.

I'm seriously jealous.

~A

Anyone can post on poemhunter.com. One of many places I have posted in my search for a good poetry site.

No reason to be "seriously jealous", right?

.. .

~"It's ALL about the Poetry~

Please join us in The Shark Pool

Who knew?

Not I. So how do I fix my faux pas? I can't. Just laugh at myself for being me.

~A

flowing with the last Narcissus

you've taken meaning out of context
extracted sterling weights of measure
from the rings around the moon
you've heard the morning warbler awaken
the cacophony of receding stars
and touched the bark of sentiment hanging
loosely from the white river birch,
the tortoise head bobs
as he meanders into the vanishing horizon,
obliquely unaware: he may be the last of his kind,

so what does this say if not the sound that will break
the silence as footsteps travel up the mountain path
stepping on the heels of generations, your golden
hair standing up in arms,

come to my defense pleads the Aquarian mammal
and the cold wind from the North flatland smashes into her face
while the mountain caps plead insanity.

Ok I reposted the poem as it's easier to crit with it here rather than scrolling back. So here goes. Anna, you already know my predilection to gerunds and your use of them lol So I am not going to dwell on that part which we've discussed previously in other places. I think you are intelligent enough to work out where they could be removed or changed in this. The same goes for some of the small filler words i.e 'the' 'of' etc.

An example is: from the rings around the moon (from rings around the moon) 1 the removed and it doesn't detract from the line, just tightens it. I think you could deal with most of these and tidy it up quite a bit.
Your line breaks in some of it tripped me and perhaps a good read out loud might show you where the changes are needed, it's always hard reading another poem first off as the assonance on words can be vastly different to what the author heard herself. I should like to hear your opinion on that one and why you made them where you did. Especially the last two stanza's..of course it is my preference to have smaller lines so that may well be my cross to bear.

Over all the images in the poem are strong and you've followed your idea through to the end, don't particularly like 'smashes' as it seems too harsh for the other parts of the poem yet I do see the idea of the venom in that last stanza, just think another word might work better there. All in all I think it's a good poem with images and metaphor that stand clearly understood.

Chez
"The perfect woman perpetrates literature as she does a small sin: as an experiment, in passing, to see if anybody notices it - and to makes sure that somebody does." - Nietzsche

this is way too long. We have to remember that we critique every poem we can. Not an essay.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Chez

I am an avid follower of your suggestions regarding the use if gerunds in poetry and have found my own writing much improved as a result. I am glad you have mentioned it in this critique It is good information to use for improvement.

In addition, you have touched on the wordiness of this submission and given the author some pointers in how to hone this verse for more impact.

I think you have provided a very solid and worthwhile critique. Well done.

~Pamela

.. .

~"It's ALL about the Poetry~

Please join us in The Shark Pool

Btw, I don't know if you or CC wrote my less verbose, simple rendition of this poem.

p://new.neopoet.com/node/4273

Jeeze, Jess, CC's was no longer than the other crits of Nevel's and Eduard's poem, if you would review them for their brevity.

Thanks for the crit CC. Interestingly enough though I don't rhyme, there is a distinct cadence in my poetry. Not that it follows through all the poem as I write my own *music* so to speak, and filler words such as the are necessary imo for the beat. In the first stanza, 9-9-7 syllables. 9-9-8, would not have worked, it would have been dissonant... though I throw in dissonance often enough.

I hope my poetry (if its form is like this) is worth the extra trouble to read a couple of times, so that the flow is understood. When I read them out loud, of course, I know where the line breaks are. And I'm a natural at reading others even for the first time, even if they write in the same style, and many do. The Professor had problems with my line breaks too. lol

Some of my poems conform, indeed lend themselves to a stylized style; it depends on the poem itself. I see you and Seren write in a style that puts every sentence on a different line, I think the Aussie way stems from the fact that most of the poetry is rhyming, so of course, it is expedient. I met a man in the early days of my poetry adventure from Australia who won many awards for Bush Poetry which as far as I could see is rhyming.

Hope this explains some of the methods of my madness. The important thing is you got the gist of what I was saying poetically. That's most important and even if it didn't if it made you feel something.....CC.

~A

p.s. I forgot to address the ing monster. Sometimes I just let him in to do his thing, I have no choice.

.

But it is now.
That was 294 words. What I, and I hope Chez and Pamela, are trying to do is improve critique on Neopoet.

Now I don't want to get in trouble, I've been warned, but we all know the person who writes interminable replies with lousy grammar.

So let's make every word count. That is not just poetry, it is critique too.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

An aside, but relevant.

I love the fact that we're adhering to the principles of the workshop. Poem. Critique. Response to critique with little dialoguing and back slapping.

Also would it be opportune, that at the end of the workshops, we all get to read each others workshops and make an evaluation of them?

~A

in fact we have started already, Eddy gave feedback from his experience in the shark pool, I will ask him to post the PM he sent me

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

First off I'd like to make a comment on the ease or unease
of use in blogs ... it would be much easier to keep up if the "new"
still showed after going to the 2nd or 3rd pages; I realize this is not
something we can work on, we'll need Andrew, but I just wanted to
say it while it is on my mind.

Anna ... It is almost impossible for me to read your poetry and not
take something from it, I feel a closeness that I don't feel with others;
that being said, this poem reads a bit disjointed for me, I've read it
over several times, looked up your title subject, which I'm assuming
refers to the flower that grew after Narcissus died, a bit confusing for
me to tie it all together. What does work is the wonderful images, which
made this read a picturesque journey, but I don't know where I've been.
Thank you for posting this piece for us to cover, I've enjoyed the time spent
on your poem.

of course a good discourse will cover several pages. And Andrew is working so bloody hard, unpaid, I would not ask for anything extra, let's work with what we have.

Regarding Anna's poem, I purposely left it till after the previous two because her work is so compassionate and crafted, it needs real work to critique.

Get onto it people, no mercy.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

I don't think so, I'm just pointing out something that would
make it easier to keep up with these blogs, I've actually noticed
it before, on the previous site but never mentioned it because most
blogs are just battlegrounds that I tire of quickly, but here, I don't want
to miss any comment, and I won't because I'm keeping up with this one;
but the other workshop blogs, when I turn the pages, I've no idea, and
maybe I am too lazy to reread all the comments, and maybe Andrew
could fix this with a simple page update, but I do think it would be a good
suggestion after this initial workshop and I don't think he'd see it as an
inconvenience if he was asked, in fact, I'm sure of it.

get over it

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Richard, I only view the site from *tools-track all site activity* menu/drop down menu. This way I can see whether it was an edit or comment added to the original poem/blog, etc.

~A

Just checked again for accuracy... since my response was the last activity, it is on top...even indicates how long ago (my) response/edit was posted.

Richard

As I read your critique, I see that you offer this writer your feelings and thoughts as a reaction to the words, but also add that the work feels disjointed to you. It is good to point out those areas of concern and you read. This makes it difficult to offer suggestions for improvement because you are unclear as to the poem's intent. That is honest and commendable. It is good to let a writer know how a poem is received by a reader.

Another good point was to make note of the imagery this author uses. You were able to find vision in them even though you are unsure as to where you have been.

One technical note:

"What does work is the wonderful images, which made this read a picturesque journey,"
should be "What does work ARE the wonderful images..."

All in all, I think you offer this writer an honest and sincere critique with enough information to help her take another look to see where clarity can be provided in this piece.

All in all, well done. ~Pamela

.. .

~"It's ALL about the Poetry~

Please join us in The Shark Pool

Thanks for the crit, Richard. My intention is always for the reader to delve deeper, gain sudden insight or enjoy the ride just because.

The evolution of this poem: Narcissus is I, and every human that has ever lived or will live.
the water of insight sometimes a trickle, a flood, a waterfall or tsunami.

That we are so ignorant and arrogant to act as if we will live forever when our time is relatively shorter than a mayfly--in the context of the bigger picture...it is our distorted view that keeps us from growing individually and as a species.

Someday soon our species may be on an *endangered list* if we don't listen to the signs (cold wind smashing a wake-up call). We had gills in utero. Who knows what type of world we are
creating with our destructive ignorant arrogance, and what type of physicality we will need to
evolve to survive? Even though I question whether or not humans are the tip of the evolution,
though the iceberg is inverted.

Yes, and Narcissus is a flower that grows abundantly on the mountain.

~A

p.s. Sorry for the earlier mistaken identity, Richard. I've been doing that too often lately, don't know what it means yet. (Do I even want to know? lol)

I started to read this and a quater of the way I had to start again, I got half way and again I had to start over, the many metaphors kept running into each other.
The words were more than a mouth full., it seemed to long to me. I felt like I was reading an editorial of some complaint,. the anger at the end seems to lead me that way. I have been reading you for at lease three years and this did not sound like you to me. I find you to be more intone with the cosmos in your writes. This seemed like something I've read from other people here, not you. If it's a complaint, I have heard you do it much better. to many words for me. I kind of lost the thread as I read. That's just my opinion, but what do I know of metaphors.

Eddie

"To teach with love is to understand ones own limitations." Taoism EC

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

Hi Eddie, I wrote an answer early this morning, but poof! gone!

It's so hard to get back the energy I expended in my reply.

The piece was a jagged cut journey in and out of the consciousness of ego, the only world in which Narcissus lives and the possible end of both human and our blue orb.

We need to *wake up* and see how we are destroying ourselves through our destruction
of the planet. Narcissus is firmly rooted on the mountain path. Hopefully. :-)

Thanks Eddie, appreciate your critique and your honesty. Even if the metaphor and journey is mine, the only thing of value is, does it make you feel? Does it speak to some place deep inside that knows?

~A

I totally understand this, that we are so self absord in other things we forget the power of the orb we walk on. these are things I believe, they are after my own heart, But still I think you went to far here with the imagery. so what happens is the message is lost to the pictures and the point follows just behind. I believe if your making a statement in fact as this is. it works best as fact and less imagery. the facts should stand out and the imagery should be the fillers not the other way around, darling Anna.
Again it's just the opinion of someone who believe's in the earth and universe as the true God.

Eddie

"To teach with love is to understand our own limitations" Taoism EC

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

Eddie
Couple of technical things:

"quater" should be "quarter"
"mouth full" should be "mouthful"
"It seemed to long" should be "too long"

Though it seems apparent that you have a friendship with this writer and offer a more casual critique, as writers, we should always use correct grammar, punctuation and spelling in everything we present in written format. It lends creditability to your critique and to you as a writer as well. I only mention this because this workshop is about giving and receiving a constructive critique.

But, I have no doubt Anna understood your intent perfectly.

It was helpful to point out you are a follower of this writer's work and that you have seen better submissions from her. This is valuable information to a writer as your thoughts come with some history and longevity. That being said, it was difficult for you to give this writer any specific areas to work on as the intent of the piece was not clear to you.

All in all, this is a fairly good critique and I think you have provided this writer with some good information to help her take another look at her presentation and perhaps improve its clarity.

~Pamela

.. .

~"It's ALL about the Poetry~

Please join us in The Shark Pool

I thank you, true, true on the grammar.

Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

Going through a time when I am probably less than helpful.

I ask Pamela and Chez to lead and provide impetus. And I ask you all to continue past the 14 days. These 3 Critique workshops are the best things that have ever happened in Neopoet. I'm sure you have all seen the difference in critique in the Stream,

all my love,
but I need some time out,

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

dear jess,

I can only bow to you as a poet and a man; can't possibly imagine having to live a life on the edge every moment...necessitating drugs that kill your creativity all to be in *respectable society* to do no harm.

~A

A life on the edge is hard, and probably dies young, but I'll do the best I can, with concscience. I never want to cause harm.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

I don't like it that your stepping back, But you must do what is best for you.

Eddie

"living on the edge,is just a place that needs to be sharpened every now and again" EC

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

I don't know if you remember a poem I posted a while ago where I recognised a manic episode coming on and dealth with it. This time I didn't and nearly got banned for life from Neopoet. No-one to blame but myself, I keep cutting back my medication against doctors orders, because It fucks up my creativity.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

what ever slicks your hair back, works for me.

Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

work on it it!
Anna is one of the most difficult poets on Neopoet to critique because she is so fucking good.
This is the the Shark Pool. Read her poem carefully and give critiique.

It's why I left her to last, be brave.

Well, mosty last, I would like to see Shark Pool become a stream. But you have all got to have the courage to critique Anna's poetry or go back to being sycophants.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

been peeking in from time to time. It appears you are all doing well as far as I can tell. Just a passing hello..........stan

Stan alert. A Stan alert. Hup 2 3 4.

lol. Hi Stan.

~A

because I think it it is deep and requiruires courage to ctirique,

Anna's Poem

flowing with the last Narcissus

you've taken meaning out of context
extracted sterling weights of measure
from the rings around the moon
you've heard the morning warbler awaken
the cacophony of receding stars
and touched the bark of sentiment hanging
loosely from the white river birch,
the tortoise head bobs
as he meanders into the vanishing horizon,
obliquely unaware: he may be the last of his kind,

so what does this say if not the sound that will break
the silence as footsteps travel up the mountain path
stepping on the heels of generations, your golden
hair standing up in arms,

come to my defense pleads the Aquarian mammal
and the cold wind from the North flatland smashes into her face
while the mountain caps plead insanity.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

If you've got ther guts

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

I like the title, it immediately sets the mood/tone of your poem. I felt carry away by the imagery, and lost touch with the original theme. Stanza 2 was enigmatic but interesting done, the prose-poetry of this section reminds me of e e cummings. Stanza 3: I felt it needs more line-breaks, a synonym for "plead" (I'm not a fan of using the same words), "the Aquarian mammal" this word felt out of contest with your language, and fancy on a New Age- way. In general it's a good poem, with interesting twists and turns, however you may add more line-breaks, and tighten up some lines. Perhaps by changing your imagery a little, to connect all dots in your poem.
Greetings,
Erwin

(a poem a day keeps the doctor away)

Erwin

I think you have made good points to help this writer to see how her audience receives this poem.

You point out that the imagery is strong and that is a solid and positive point, but overuse of imagery can take away from the intent and you have relayed that message well.

I see places for grammatical correction in your critique but I do realize that English is not your native language and sometimes translation can be difficult. The right word is "context" instead of "contest".

All in all a good critique with useful information for Anna to use as she works on this submission. Well done. ~Pamela

.. .

~"It's ALL about the Poetry~

Please join us in The Shark Pool

Ahh, thanks Pamela,
that was a silly typo of me. I never mind if you correct my grammatically error. Still learning. :)
Greetings,
Erwin

(a poem a day keeps the doctor away)

Thanks Erwin,

My poems pretty much come intact, who am I to argue with my muse? However, my partner, Barry does not like it. The poem *Human* was another version of the same poem, which he liked.

He said too much finger pointing in an arrogant sort of way. I replied that it probably reminds him of when I get bitchy with him. Yeah I hope that came across loud and clear in the poem. Narcissus (ego) points the finger and its reflection is always pointing back. Who else can we blame for our idiocy and our neglect *shepherding* the planet?

Appreciated your view. I also like your signature line. What's your favourite apple? ;-)

~A

hi Anna,
you are right about egotism, more and more animals get endangered.
No poems are enough, to cover this subject, speaking as a big fan of mother earth.
My favorite apple is "Jonagold" half sweet, half sourly.
Greetings,
Erwin

(a poem a day keeps the doctor away)

I've stayed out of the Shark Pool, I am not a member, and it seemed inappropriate to make any comments.
However, since the last official day of this workshop is tomorrow (Sunday), there are a few things I would like to say.
First of all, Jess, what an outstanding job, in setting up this workshop, and setting it's tone. I am far, far beyond impressed. I know that you need to take some time away, but return to us as soon as you are able, because Neopoet really does benefit from your presence and work.

Chez and Pamela. All I can say is that I hope that you two will continue to lead this worshop, you've done an amazing job, and if anyone had any trepidation about joining this workshop, your levels of expertise, thoughtfulness and professionalism dispel it completely.
Several of us were more than a little concerned that the Shark Pool would quickly devolve into a morass of fighting and insults. Given your participation, the idea of that happening now seems completely silly.
For all workshop members, I hope you take Jess's advice, and continue with the workshop. After seeing such womderful poetry and excellent criticism unfold here, it is clear to all of us how important this workshop is, and will be, to Neopoet.

One thing: I had to laugh at some of the reservations expressed about criticizing Kailashana's work! She really is one of the best poets we have at Neopoet, and the very thought of criticizing her work is, well, daunting!
Then again, the poems you have criticized and discussed here are of the highest quality, imo, and finding anything critically constructive to say about them is a challenge, a challenge that all of you have met and exceeded.

All of you, take a big bow, you've done an outstanding job.

Respectfully, Jim

"Laws and Rules don't kill freedom: narrow-minded intolerance does" - Race-9togo

http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/Race_9togo

I will say, it has certainly been a rewarding experience. We will do our best to follow the outline set by Jess and continue to assist writers in learning how to give as well as receive a good critique.

Thank you again. ~Pamela

.. .

~"It's ALL about the Poetry~

Please join us in The Shark Pool

Hi Jim,

The reason I signed up for the shark pool is that I knew that the level of attainment in critique, acceptance and response would be conducive with refining my skills on both sides--my poetry and my critiquing which is after all, what Neopoet is MEANT to be. I can only say Halleluyah! I'm saddened because some of us who signed up were unable to participate, I know their presence would have been welcomed positive energy.

It saddens me to no end to know of Jess's price to pay for his stabilization into society--his creativity.
It chokes me up all the time because I have been there with my own father.

Now about my poem. I want to thank everyone again (including your kind remarks Jim) for an outstanding job. I know some of my work is not easy to understand. The man I live with has to take time and *study it* (when I write this type of poetry); we have discussions about it, as I have noted elsewhere in this thread.

I have already rewritten the whole thing when the mused grabbed me after I read some information about Ohio's dangerous setting aside EPA laws that protect our unbalanced ecology in order to pursue drilling in our state parks. So I wrote this poem, (I also belong to *ecology* poetry in a warriorpoets group)... http://new.neopoet.com/node/4273 , in essence completely rewriting the poem that was critiqued.

Here I shall try to revise, taking into consideration the critiques and my own qualms when I originally composed it. (Some of the reasons why are originally addressed in my answer to the critique.)

flowing with the last Narcissus

you've taken meaning out of context
extracted sterling weights of measure
from rings around the moon

you've heard the morning warbler awaken
the cacophony of receding stars
and touched the bark of sentiment hanging
loosely from the white river birch,

the tortoise head bobs
as he meanders into the vanishing horizon,
obliquely unaware:
he may be the last of his kind,

so what does this say?

if not the sound that will break
the silence?
footsteps travel up the mountain path
stepping on the heels of generations, your golden
hair standing up in arms,

"come to my defense"
pleads the Aquarian mammal
and a cold wind from the North flatland
smashes into her face
while the mountain caps plead insanity.

(I hope this edit does justice to the outstanding critiques and critiques of the critiques I have been privileged to attend. Thank you one and all.

~Anna

p.s. I neglected to respond to your making notation of the *Aquarian mammal*. Spot on it was a direct reference to the Age of Aquarius. Thank you.

p.p.s. Some more minor edits rereading this piece.

Anna

Though you have made some line break changes and removed a word here and there based on the critiques received, I think this prose still needs a lot of honing for brevity and clarity in order to be as effective as your intent.

Couple of technical things:

"sterling weights of measure" - still seems to border on cliché and feels unnecessary. It takes strength away from your message.

"so what does this say?

if not the sound that will break
the silence?"

These lines are only one question. I would remove the question mark after "say" for this to be grammatically correct.

All in all, you have a powerful message to send with a voice that knows all the words to use. Still, I think with some additional work, this poem has the capability of reaching a wider audience in order to make an even greater impression

Say it straight. We humans are giving away our earth without much more than a nod at the severity of this decision.

It has always been the poets and the songwriters who have carried the loudest voice; made impressions through words. You've got the right message, now bring it home.

~Pamela

.. .

~"It's ALL about the Poetry~

Please join us in The Shark Pool

This one is finished. I don't paint within the lines, so to speak, never have.

If you want to read the poem that you want to read, Pamela. Try this one, which perhaps says what you want me to say in the way you prefer me to say it. ;-)

http://new.neopoet.com/node/4273

Thank you again, Pamela. I have learned to say the same thing in many different ways; the object of my poetry is that the more ways I write what I want to say, the more potential that someone somewhere hears it.

~A

Firstly thanks Jim for the kind words and I hope Pam and I can continue, I would hope personalities never become involved in this because we're not here to influence friends but to just help with the poetry. The writer who believes they know it all will always suffer more than the one who is ready to always listen and learn.

Anna, I like the moral issues of the poem, you already have my concerns and preferences on things but if we all wrote the same way then it would be a fairly boring pool of poetry. I think you can still make a stronger statement with this poem, don't be afraid to skirt issues of morals especially when humanity is usually to blame for them, Hit it head on, the poets voice is able to be the 'truth' at all times regardless of other people's opinions so if it talks like a duck and waddles like a duck then call it a duck. The great strength of the beat poets was to be in the face of people all the time to tell them what they do is wrong.
You have done a good rewrite and with all the crits being of high standards I am sure you will continue to flourish. I hope Pam and I can keep this Pool open, as it's my first I have enjoyed it immensely.

Chez
"The perfect woman perpetrates literature as she does a small sin: as an experiment, in passing, to see if anybody notices it - and to makes sure that somebody does." - Nietzsche

Indeed, CC.

I have never been fearful by *skirting any issue*....it's just that my way is often subtle. It needs to develop in the mind and heart of the reader. This way it doesn't become a force that is opposed.

I can and often am confrontational in real life and in my poems. It just depends on how my muse raises issues with me. ;-)

What I seem to create is different types of poetry, and there is where I adhere to forms. My haiku(esque), spiritual or love poems are different in look and feel from my in-your-face warrior/ecology/human rights issues.

It will be interesting to see how this exercise into the nature of critique will evolve all of us here in our methodology as poets and as individuals who interact with all types of personalities... Whether we have raised our own consciousness.

~A

never ever make changes based on crit. You are both such superb poets that you can afford the arrogance not to. But is that what Neopoet is about? Are you really perfect?

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

you've done a great job keeping this going while I made minimal input.

I think every participant here has the capability to keep this workshop open as a Stream. But do we want that? Yes, because we can speak so freely. No, because we all need to take our skills, knowledge and courage back to the main Stream.

Neopoet needs all of us. So let's do both. Post poems you don't feel will get sufficient feedback on the Stream here, but also critique with shark pool evolution in the Stream. That is my best suggestion for the continued improvement of Neopoet,

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

You have been a world of inspiration and encouragement to us all and I think the Shark Pool is better for it.

We will do our best to keep this going until you are ready to jump back in with both feet. With both Chez and myself as fairly new additions to Neo, we do not come with any pre-conceived ideas about the poetry submitted. It never hurts to have a fresh pair of eyes review our work to ensure we are able to reach the widest audience possible.

Thank you for your continued support and if we could introduce critique at this level to the Stream, it would really be what Neo is all about.

Be well and join us back here soon.

~Pamela

.. .

~"It's ALL about the Poetry~

Please join us in The Shark Pool

To me this is the watershed moment in Neopoet, how we continue from here is the dicision of us all.
I say to all that came up with this grand slam of an idea Bravo to you all.

Eddie

"The softest things in the world overcome the hardest things in the world.
Through this I know the advantage of taking no action." Lao Tzu

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

If you wanted it.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

How did you know what I want from you. it's amazing the ability you have to read me. Hahaha!
"Let's get it on" as Marvin Gaye would have said it.
Thanks

Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

teehee

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

You better stop before Dan and Jim get Jelaous. LMFAO

Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

I've got over my manic episode and could help. Genuine offer. I have mentored several young poets here.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

it would be an honor, but you must realize that it is not shark Pool. I am the leader of it and I run a certain way. you are welcome to join us as long as you don't try and change the way I run it.
If that is acceptable I will be happy to have you.

Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

only as I would to young protegees.

I could give you a long list of commendations from my protegees, which I compiled when I got suspended once, but it won't be necessary. You have my word of honour.

To be truly honest of my failings, if I start swearing or picking on anyone then you will know I am going off and you can ban me. I'll ask Andrew to put that facility in place.

Honestly

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

You needn't worry about jealousy - Jess and I have an open marriage so its all good...LOL!

I will make an official statement summarising the workshops and detailing where we go from here, but I most proud of Jess, Pam & Chez for running the workshop.

I have had no complaints and can see only good quality critique and understanding of the structure of critiquing.

I haven't been absent from the pools, I have checked in everyday to read and without actually joining in on the Shark pool (I have a fear of fish with a bigger mouth than me)...I have too learned some quality ideas on critiquing at this top level.

The participants in this pool have been active and have help make this the shark pool a major success.

Good job, everyone,

HS

--------------
Workshops are now open:
http://new.neopoet.com/workshop/find
--------------
With all that I am and all that I could be, I walk this earth, yet nobody sees me.

I think it is important that we continue to receive feedback on this workshop from you and the management team (for lack of a better description - *smile*). All in all, I think we have done well. We have quality writers who are learning how to receive as well as provide constructive critiques.

We are a bit wordy as Jess has mentioned on several occasions, but I think as we continue to move forward we will learn to address that.

I do think we should try to move away from the "chattiness" in the workshop, but that may come with time. This workshop is not about personalities, it is ONLY about the submissions and the level of critiques provided. None of us is so high on the ladder that we cannot afford to receive a little constructive feedback.

A technical issue as Richard pointed out, is the length of the thread. I wish there were a way to keep each poem submitted for critique on a single thread within the group. If there is - anyone - please jump in. I think it would make navigation easier for us all.

I believe that everyone here has offered solid critiques of the poetry and the critiques themselves. I wish more participants would jump in and critique the critiques offered. Perhaps that will come as we continue to move forward.

I think this is a talented and mature group and given that, we have done well and will continue to do well as we move forward in The Shark Pool. We have much to give to each other and those gifts are priceless.

~Pamela

.. .

~"It's ALL about the Poetry~

Please join us in The Shark Pool

Don't let ME stop you ED, go for it! heehee!!!

Respectfully, Jim

"Laws and Rules don't kill freedom: narrow-minded intolerance does" - Race-9togo

http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/Race_9togo

Thanks big Daddy Jim. LMFAO

Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

Just wanted to thank all of you for this workshop
which I found to be professionally handled as well as
fun to participate in ... my vote is to do it again soon!

thank you

Richard

I've had a request to submit another poem to the Shark Pool for the "treatment".

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

In his comment on the stream of Richard's "Last Night"-
"We all seem to focus on the same area of obvious critique...is there any other focus we could extend to? All in all, diligent, caring, considerate and focused."

Absolutely! We are not here to dot the i's and cross the t's in the poem, we are here to read deeply into to the poems and critique fearlessly- content, meaning and intent, without apology.

However we are here to dot the i's and cross the t's in the critique. To be lucid and clear in our feedback.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

I'm game.

It pleases me to be in a workshop that has evidenced its professionalism without falling into condescension or diatribes.

The skill level begets even higher quality and consistency, applied to poems critiques and critiques of critiques. Thank you again.

(Wouldn't it be lovely if a poem or poet, however, (crossed over*, icame from one of the other workshops?)

~Anna

soon

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

and ready, where's the poem?

...could tell me what to "click" on, to edit?
I wanted to adhere to what you asked of me, and coudn't.
I sincerely apologise for any incovenience, or confusion I may have caused. I'm just abit overwhelmed with my circumstances, I guess.
doc.

Neopoet is "newtriffic" !
...from the heart, or a reasonable faxcimile;
david a. goodwin #{:>{)} @==

View Edit Unpublish

Click on Edit. Let me know if this time you get the Shark Pool option under the Workshop dropdown. It may be gone because we have passed the originally projected 14 days.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment
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