About workshops

Workshops on Neopoet are groups that meet for a certain period of time to focus on a certain aspect of poetry. Each workshop participant is asked to critique all the other poems submitted into a workshop. A workshop leader helps coordinate -- they set the agenda, give participants feedback on whether their submissions and critique are at they level expected of them, and after the workshop is over, give feedback to participants. 

To join a workshop, first find one that is of interest to you. Once you have found the right workshop (and verified that it is open -- you can find this out in the description below), you can apply to join the workshop.


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RHYME PATTERNS (part 1) let's begin

Status: 
Program description/goal: 

Description: We're going to explore how rhyme patterns can be used to add a more natural sound to rhyming poetry

Leader: stan holliday
Moderator(s): wierdelf

Objectives: To familiarize both beginning and long time rhyme poets with the way rhyme patterns can change the sound of poetry to a more "modern" form of speech

Level of expertise: Open to all

Subject matter:
rhyming poetry

Length: 
14 days
Number of participants (limit): 
10 people
Skill level: 
Date: 
Tuesday, August 7, 2012 to Tuesday, August 21, 2012
Short description: 
We will begin with a discussion of rhyme patterns and how they have evolved over time. We will then label the various patterns (aabb, ect) for future short hand use. This shop will stick to the more popular patterns with only passing mention of the more

Comments

You will find numerous types of Rhyming Pattern in the "R" section of the Poetic forms A-Z I have gathered together..
Firstly we will start the workshop on a simpler level then graduate to the much more complex pieces..
So come on join Stan in his bid to improve us here.
Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

Hope you didn't scare anybody off lol. This 1st shop is Not going to deal with the more complex patterns. We'll leave those for another time. Rather, it will deal with the more common ones and their usage in avoiding the "sing-song" feel which can be a problem in rhyming poetry...................stan

author comment

I have modified my input to your workshop, now we can start of easily.
I have put the Item on the "R" section for reference as we become brilliant lol.

Take care
I am there
To guide your ways
Through many days
Not knowing nowt
I still pack a clout
Can I sing along
Without a song

Etc:

Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

Is this a complementary to the previous Rhyme crimes?

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Please follow me on Instagram
https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Only insofar as both deal with rhyming poetry. This first part, at least, will not be nearly as technical as the rhyme crimes shop (mainly because I'M not as technical lol). We'll be dealing more with use and less with definitions in this shop. After all, how hard Can it be if I'm the leader lmao?..................stan

author comment

I am willing to learn if you accept me in Stan..Thanks for the efforts.You are for it and for harder things I'm sure.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Please follow me on Instagram
https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

I'll put you down as joined . I expect we will All learn from one another..........stan

author comment

you know how much i enjoy rhyme - count me in :)
love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

As my Latin teacher used to say when I misbehaved "DOWN your name goes" lol. welcome aboard......stan

author comment

Great! the more the merrier. I'll give you a special assignment...........find a word that rhymes with orange lol........stan

author comment

O range of beauty
O range of fire
You cook my food
So I will stoke your pyre
We have been here before aint gona swallow that one, so will suck the life out of it..
I suppose you had better put my name down as I have some spare moments Lol

Lemons and orange
This rhyme is disparage,
Why because it's
A dyslexic Rhyme,
Yours Ian.T

Are there any words that rhyme with orange?

Orange has almost no perfect rhymes.
The only word in the 20-volume historical Oxford English Dictionary that rhymes with orange is sporange, a very rare alternative form of sporangium (a botanical term for a part of a fern or similar plant).
Silver is another word for which it is almost impossible to find a perfect rhyme: the only candidate is the rare word chilver, which the 20-volume Oxford English Dictionary defines as 'a ewe-lamb' (i.e. a female lamb). Both orange and silver do have half-rhymes, though: the Oxford Rhyming Dictionary gives lozengeas a half-rhyme for orange, for example, and salver as a half-rhyme for silver.
What's the difference between a full rhyme and a half-rhyme? A full and stressed rhyme (e.g. hand / stand) or even an unstressed rhyme (such as handing / standing) contain vowels that are common to both words, while a half-rhyme like orange / lozenge or silver / salver has obvious differences between the vowels in certain syllables. The technical term for a half-rhyme is 'pararhyme'.

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

LOL at myself for thinking just because I knew none that none existed. Now to find a poem to put them in lol...........stan

author comment

The beauty held in the tip curl of the sporange
Is eclipsed by the sunshine beauty of the orange.
Look to nature that you may see such external beauty
Look inward to see that you hold a spiritual booty

It is late and my Brain hurts, it is being flooded by silly words, that have no future here or in fact anywhere.
So I will throw them all into a box and send the box to the extremes of the universe where they can irritate the Gods,
Goodnight fair travellers and live of beauty, and also dream of beauty,
I know it is hard, maybe impossible but you can say you tried.
Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

night Ian lol

author comment

Here goes
Had to sight my rifle in
so I hied me to a range
hoping it was not a sin
my target was an orange...........................stan

author comment

it’s all a weird hullabaloo I find
and I think it very strange
that so many refuse to use near rhyme
to find a partner for orange

xxxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

he shot and missed the orange
wondered why it was so
then shouted out "Oh, range !"
I figured it too low...................................please throw all darts at eph lol

author comment

I think the concept of looking at rhyme patterns and natural speech is a great complement to Rhyme Crimes.

The more I study structure the more I realise that rhyme and meter are virtually inseparable to work effectively, so I think that though we don't need to discuss meter it could well be an aspect of our feedback on each others work when we get to writing some rhymes.

And please, my dear Mr. Crud, if anyone happens to mention Iambic or Tetrameter or something, don't raise a low-brow fuss, just look it up. It ain't rocket science.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

You are most welcome to participate. And the crits won't be limited to pattern only although that's what we'll be concentrating on.................stan

author comment

I would really enjoy this workshop, I think.

I sat alone before cold porridge
growling at the lack of bacon
burnt the toast and dropped the orange
what a catastrophic brunch I'm makin'

Thanks!

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

I assume you want to join the shop as well as the attempt at rhyming orange so I'm putting you on "The List" lol.................stan

author comment

The lust for cash is getting me
I long for the greasy touch of money
so keep an eye upon your silver
lest I in heat begin to pilfer

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

Anybody can find a near rhyme for orange and silver lol. Now see if you can get a bit closer............stan

author comment

We will be studying the simpler rhyme patterns in this shop. We will concentrate on end rhyme for the sake of simplicity.
A lot of people shun rhyming metered poetry because they say it has too much of a "sing-song" feel to it. In some cases this is probably true. So we're going to explore the ways that different rhyme patterns can help eliminate the nursery rhyme feel that can come with rhyming poetry. So let's begin by hearing ya'll's ideas on how and why this can be accomplished by the use of patterns. Do Not copy and paste somebody else's words on this. I want to hear Your ideas and keep this fairly informal.
Now the real world require me be gone 2-3 hours so this will give ya'll a chance to post without me butting in lol.See you all about 7:00 or 7:30.....................PS feel free to put any and all thought you have on this. Nobody here is going to be rude in reply.....lest they risk THE WRATH OF SCRIBBLER lmao

author comment

Since it's only end rhyme we'll be talking about this is a handy system-
Rhyming couplets AABB
....cat
....mat
....true
....blue

This is the form most likely to produce 'sing-song' effect, especially with shorter lines

Alternate rhyme ABAB
....cat
....true
....mat
....blue

Enclosed rhyme (or enclosing rhyme): "ABBA"
....true
....cat
....mat
....blue

Of course these are not limited to 4 line stanzas, quatrains, and there are many more patterns, each more suitable to different types of structure and content.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I was of the opinion that a rhyming couplet consists of only 2 lines. But in my opinion you are correct that of the most often used patterns in a quatrain it's the aabb which most lends itself to a sing-song effect, The only quatrain pattern which might surpass it in this is aaaa, but it's not used nearly as often. One other pattern will will be discussing is the one in which only 2 alternating lines of a quatrain are used blank a,blank a or a blank,a blank
a blank,a blank
I saw a star
in a black sky
wondered how far
it might be

blank a, blank a is the reverse where only the second and last line rhyme......................stan

author comment

ABAC
and
ABCB
the latter, though, has a tendency to sound like longer lines split

In a black sky
I saw a star
It made me wonder
was it far

see how this easily reads as a couplet AA

In a black sky I saw a star
It made me wonder was it far

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I purposely used short lines for sake of simplicity. It's pretty obvious that either of these 2 patterns is best used with longer lines to avoid the appearance of them being merely 2 couplets chopped in two. And I like the way you labeled them and think that's how they Should be done rather than the way I did it. One would almost think you'd had some kind of formal training in this lmao.............stan.............Well off to bed, will check back in the morning

author comment

Anybody care to give examples of quatrains which do and which do not have a sing-song quality to them? Or give your thoughts about which patterns you are most likely to use and why?

author comment

As you have now captured near all of the rhyming patterns, I have sent the quatrain piece to my "Q" on the A-Z that I have been putting out as a Multi Blog, I would like to join in your Rhyme and Reason Workshop, if there are still places left, Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

Well you caught 1 pattern I'd missed (AABA). You have not joined yet. Let me know if you want in via PM............stan

author comment

You're in. I'll get you on the list now............stan

author comment

I think that the longer the line, the less sing-songy a poem sounds, no matter the scheme used…

poems written in tetrameter and less sound more like pop music, to the pentameter and more’s aria … so to speak….. lol, just my opinion

also, I believe rhyme should be a surprise… words used that are not so expected… an example from one of my poems and ian’s response may clarify what I mean

‘even if strings that vibrate through forever
releasing acoustics of every single round
that exists within the chromatic scale of ever
should on our ears progressively sound’

ian’s comment - ‘This tripped me in a couple of places as its smooth read became a little bumpy, maybe because of the words that I had to pause on, one place where Round I thought should have been sound then the sound came in lol’

just my two-bob’s worth
love judy xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

regarding short vs long lines and singsongy.

And regarding surprising rhymes. Your forever/ever does cos a slight stumble, to the mind, not the ear, because it has a feel of identical rhyme but causes the mind to pause for the nanosecond required to consider its ramifications of meaning.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I agree that line length also makes a difference. And to use an unexpected rhyming word also help. Everybody would expect a trees/breeze rhyme but probably not so much trees/ease...............stan

author comment

as it reads faster and gives a music sound. I understand this is suitable for specific types (Nursury rhymes)
but still I find no problem in constructing a regular predictable rhyme and also like to read poetry of same characteristics though I've also wrote of others. Where am I from true poetry?

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Please follow me on Instagram
https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

the difference is that for some
be we pro or be we bum
poetry is an agonising necessity
not just a hobby, exercised prettily.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Dang! I need your hair growth formula.When I saw you yesterday you were nearly bald and look at you now lmao.I think your example of using unusual rhyme pairs is very good.................stan

author comment

That sing songy sound is fine for some subjects. But would you want to use it for a poem expressing deep grief or loss? Or in one dealing in a serious manner with a current event such as war or a mass murder. This is why rhyming poets also need to be able to write in a manner that has a more serious tone also. Sing songing Can have its place (and not just nursery rhymes lol) but the wider a poet's range the better she/he can cover a wide variety of topics,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,stan

author comment

note the use iambic pentameter – separating the rhymes that are in themselves different, in a poem of wonderful word usage
a perfect example in my mind of avoidance of sing song, and promoting solemnity

What passing-bells for these who die as cattle?
Only the monstrous anger of the guns.
Only the stuttering rifles' rapid rattle
Can patter out their hasty orisons.
No mockeries now for them; no prayers nor bells;
Nor any voice of mourning save the choirs, –
The shrill, demented choirs of wailing shells;
And bugles calling for them from sad shires.
What candles may be held to speed them all?
Not in the hands of boys but in their eyes
Shall shine the holy glimmers of goodbyes.
The pallor of girls' brows shall be their pall;
Their flowers the tenderness of patient minds,
And each slow dusk a drawing-down of blinds.

my favourite line?
Only the stuttering rifles' rapid rattle '
- what great alliteration and. onomatopoeia

xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

I think it might have been Samuel Taylor Coleridge himself who coined the term "suspension of disbelief". When one is so carried away by the power of a piece one forgets all considerations of technique and form.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

My problem with you in workshops before is your refusal to learn formal terms for structure.

Of course you've proved that you don't need to, but different people learn differently and for many it is really helpful to learn the rules in order to learn to break them creatively.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

though I know we wouldn't respect each other in the morning.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

It's near impossible to talk about rhyme without meter sneaking in lol. You are correct that even a tiny varience in meter can break rhythm just enough to lend a more natural sound to poetry. As can the use of near rhyme when used in any pattern. I seldom achieve perfect meter all the way through a poem but it is an unconcious decision that happens due to my quest to invoke natural speach patterns. Few are the ones who can maintain rhyme, meter and natural flow......................stan

author comment

natural speech is metered

and I will fight to the last in my belief that your attempts to avoid any formulated meter, in many cases detract from the work

mixed meter is great for voice and emphasis…. but it has to be carefully done

xxxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

throwing half-bricks

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Good thing I'm so far away! Yes there is meter in natural speech. But in any given paragraph the meter from one line to the next varies. As example what I just wrote, Each line has its own meter but not every line's meter is the same. Hence it is prose and not poetry. Some of my favorite poems have consistent meter throughout and Still have a natural sound to them. But others have only fairly consistent meter.
And I don't intentionally avoid formal meter. I'd like it if everything I wrote had exact meter and still sounded natural. But in order of importance my personal priorities are 1. message 2 good rhyme 3 natural sounding speech patterns 4 at least tolerable meter.So now I'll bob and swerve to avoid your punches and duck to avoid Jess' bricks lol.

author comment

While we wait hearing from Geezer and Rula, ya'll can start thinking about your first assignment. Write a short poem using end rhyme in quatrains ( 4-5 stanzas max) which purposely has a sing-song feel to it. If you have an old write which fits this you may use it if you want. We can continue discussion while we await Rula and Gee but don't post your poem until everyone has chipped in on discussion or I announce that we'll move on without them.
So let's hear of which rhyme pattern in your personal opinion is best used to avoid the sing song trap. So far the patterns which have been mentioned (if my memory serves) are : AAAA, AABA, ABAA, ABAB, ABBA, ...........stan PS I'll check back in in about 4 hours.Off to work

author comment

though I'm checking every now and then
I think from the patterns mentioned that the AABA is the less singsongy as the B might interrupt the rhyme while the ABAB is the most singsongy Am I right?

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Please follow me on Instagram
https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

(and this denies potent content)
is that shorter lines and rhyming couplets AABB tend to be more singsongy.

Too much strife
I took my life
now in deepest hell
I dwell

Short lines, rhyming couplets, but sinister content and irregular meter

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

This is what I understand from juddy's but then Stan asked for more answers so I was confused.Thank you

It's only me
I like to be
Short and concise
But also precise.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Please follow me on Instagram
https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Sorry for the confusion. For discussion I asked which rhyme pattern you personally feel is best at avoiding the sing song feel. In the mean time I gave everybody a heads up that the 1st assignment would be to write a poem which intentionally Has a sing song feel to it. Don't post it yet, just start thinking about it...........stan

author comment

there are always the french ones - that are supposed to sound as song
such as the octogram
- note the long and short lines, and the rhyme scheme with line repetitions

even when you change the nappy
love simply grows
even when the job is crappy
hard on the nose
even when it's so offensive
after he's looked rather pensive
and no-where near smells like a rose
love simply grows

at the risk of sounding sappy
such tiny toes
lighten souls and make them happy
all darkness goes
and in the heart there's left no room
for sadness, misery or gloom
each one who has a baby knows
love simply grows

xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

even though you knock me back for sex (few have resisted such a chance in the pleasure dome) even you could learn something from strict forms.

See how this transcends the rather nasty subject?

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

no, always wrong.
But then I may have missed your point.
Wouldn't be hard.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I said earlier this shop was only going to deal with the simpler patterns. Save the octograms and such for the next advanced rhyme pattern shops lest I assign you to write a 100 line poem in which the first line rhymes with the last then the second line rhymes with next to last and so on lol..Hmph...punch and throw brick huh? lmao (just kidding but let's not stray to the advanced stuff yet).................stan

author comment

will cease and desist.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

(to hide the silly smile on face)
'yes boss, sorry boss'
xxxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Hey man found this twisted dude
He told me a story how he staggered a mile
I just curled up and had to smile
Then he cracked me up, nothing rude. (ABBA)

He found this shiny sixpence
Left on a twisted sort of style
Take a break man have patience
This is just too much, rest awhile (ABAB)

Then listen this is where it runs away
To the Cat pound he went that day
All they would let him have for that
With a twisted smile, was a broken cat. (AABB)

It just gets better so hold on there
It caught a mouse with a twisted stare
This mouse was so crooked it was in a coil
Here he really made my blood boil (AABB)

He told me that they are living together
In a house that was so twisted
Its chimney was held with a tether
Front door at the back when I visited (ABAB)

I told the dude to go home and sober up. (A man)

Yours, Ian. T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

I don’t know what formula you are following

I get
Hey man found this twisted dude
He told me a story how he staggered a mile
I just curled up and had to smile
Then he cracked me up, nothing rude. (abba)

He found this shiny sixpence
Left on a twisted sort of style
Take a break man have patience
This is just too much, rest awhile (cbcb)

Then listen this is where it runs away
To the Cat pound he went that day
All they would let him have for that
With a twisted smile, was a broken cat. (ddee)

It just gets better so hold on there
It caught a mouse with a twisted stare
This mouse was so crooked it was in a coil
Here he really made my blood boil (ffgg)

He told me that they are living together
In a house that was so twisted
Its chimney was held with a tether
Front door at the back when I visited (hihi)

I told the dude to go home and sober up. ( j)

or if read as separate verses
Hey man found this twisted dude
He told me a story how he staggered a mile
I just curled up and had to smile
Then he cracked me up, nothing rude. (abba)

He found this shiny sixpence
Left on a twisted sort of style
Take a break man have patience
This is just too much, rest awhile (abab)

Then listen this is where it runs away
To the Cat pound he went that day
All they would let him have for that
With a twisted smile, was a broken cat. (aabb)

It just gets better so hold on there
It caught a mouse with a twisted stare
This mouse was so crooked it was in a coil
Here he really made my blood boil (aabb)

He told me that they are living together
In a house that was so twisted
Its chimney was held with a tether
Front door at the back when I visited (abab)

xxxxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Fuck me dead, it's not rocket science.
The A's B's C's etc repeat according to the repeated rhyme
line A rhymes with line A
line B rhymes with line B
line C rhymes with line C
whatever order they are in

the cat
sat on the mat
AA
the cat
was rude
and sat
quite lewd
ABAB

the cat
on the mat
was rude
and lewd
AABB

getting it?

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Can we get the thing straight from the start Judy has given a different way of Rhyme annotation we surely must use one type only.

Now Judy has gone to using a multi code and in the second stanza surly it should be CDCD and not CBCB which has put all her annotations out...
He found this shiny sixpence
Left on a twisted sort of style
Take a break man have patience
This is just too much, rest awhile (cbcb)
I think you are now dead, as it is fucked up, but I will go with your taking each Stanza as an independent unit which makes more sense.
I was reading the Rubáiyát Interlocking way of ABCD and messed up somewhere but I will under correction edit my initial poem to that method.
I await your return from the dead Zone,
Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

Having written this, which of the patterns contained herein do you think is least and most liable to be labeled sing songish........sing songish is going to get old to read. Hey Jess or Judy is there a technical term for sing song?...................stan PS Ian we're still in the discussion stage. Check above comments about what 1st poem assign will be.....................stan

author comment

it's called either Bad Poetry or Hallmark.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I guess we're stuck with singsong then. BTW SOMEBODY has to write greeting cards, better a real poet than Joe Blow in marketing lol. Plus there actually are times when singsong is a good choice or at least tolerable.......stan

author comment

I mean, if you got a berievement card, would you rather it was written by you or some truly shitty poet.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

A. we are still in discussion stage
B. I'll let ya'll know when it's time to post 1st poem ( if we aren't all doing the same thing at the same time things might become too chaotic)
C. When it IS time to post, the poem is limited to max of 5 quatrains ( the reason for this limitation will become apparent as shop evolves)
D, If I'm being a hard ass about this my reasons are to make it easier on everybody to know where we are as far as the different stages of this shop goes
E. That damn scribbler is an ass!

author comment

The rhyme and meter are almost perfect but I kinda got lost around the eighth line lmao.................stan

author comment

but have posted a piece on the Stream as part of this workshop.
http://www.neopoet.com/workshop/poems/waking-rhyme-rhyme-patterns-workshop
sorry if that was premature, it's pretty crappy anyway, but uses the forms we've been talking about

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

As long as it has max. 4 quatrains and a very singsong feel, leave it posted. If not, please edit it to fit requirements of delete it. Also be sure that it and any poems posted for this shop has the shop title included in the title block to make it easier for us to find. thanks............stan

author comment

Read it Read it, and added to your page, I agree with you on yours, now mine is sorted it kinda shines like a beacon. LOL You could annotate yours, for the workshop Jess, it is a good show of simple rhyme anyway, rotflmao, something to do with dead springs to mind, I am wary of leaving this comment behind,
Yours Sparrow

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

Sorry Ian and everyone.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Be nice..............stan

author comment

Love You . See blow hot blow cold lol Thank you for your comment, Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

Enjoy the change where you are allocated a poem to sort out, it makes a change from reading and not commenting lol.
Thanks Stan for your Time on this,
Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

This shop like all shops depends more on the participants than the shop leader. Maybe by actually being free to rewrite another's poetry folks will feel a bit more free to offer suggestions on non-shop poetry..............stan

author comment

Now stop being a Pig lol
and I thought of that
All on my own
as I am about to disown
This grand piece
of lol-loping rhyme.
Though it is spot on time
Poor Stan will be in a tizz
He said only a few lines
and you have excelled.
Sent reason to hell
or was it Cleethorpes.
Hey that rings a bell
Wasn't there a coffin
thrown on the beech
With a Dracula in
that could only screech.
I am all done with this.
But watch out for his kiss
As it is far too long
for that rhyming thing
Tuck it in your thong
But please don't carry on
Take care out there,
Read it Read it, It OK
too long I say,
Yours Yenti today

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

Prat was a word that rhymed
in the first line
so I thought you wouldn't mind.
This comment was to indicate that your poem was too long lol.
Yours Ian.T
PS:- I shall figure out if to send any love to you, it may take a while lol

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

A bit of diageement as to labeling of lines in different stanzas? OK to keep us all on the same page we will label each stanza as if it stands . Thus a 3 stanza poem in which each stanza has alternate line rhymes (abab) will be considered to have abab rhyme throughout. IF we progress to 5 line stanzas in this shop we might have to change but for now we'll use the KISS principal.................stan

author comment

the ABCD system still works. It is the most visually simple (KISS) system for describing poetic patterns.
A whole poem, without stanza breaks could be described rhythmically in these terms.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

speak English please :)

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Please follow me on Instagram
https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

for Keep It Simple, Stupid.

It means don't complicate things when you don't have to.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

and please forgive my ignorance SIR

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Please follow me on Instagram
https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

it puts us on a different social level.
We might have different outlooks and capabilities in poetry, but no-one is any-one's better here.
My explanation just given wasn't patronising in any way. I merely explained the acronym, I was not calling you stupid.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I also use it to remind myself to
Keep
It
Simple
Stan.......................figuring both words are interchangable lol............................stan

author comment

and I will be waiting for the your sign to post Stan..
Time to bed . Good night all

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Please follow me on Instagram
https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

If they think I am going to Kiss any of them,
they are in cloud cuckoo land LOL
You have a great time here,
I will sort some Kisses out tomorrow
My thoughts are by your side,
Yours Ian.T

PS:- Didn't realise you had gone to bed I will go outside and walk around till dawn lol

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

The label 'singsongy' is clearly a perjorative term in the context of this thread. It is also a statement of individual opinion rather than a statement of empirical truth. It is evident that there are some in the workshop who believe form poetry is archaic and less valid than freeform poetry. My view is that writing form poetry enhances a poet's ability to
achieve discipline and write with greater precision. When writing form poetry such as sonnets, monotetra, rondeau, sestina, and a plethora of other forms, the rhythms and/or meter are pre-set as a part of the specific form and any deviation from the pattern makes the poem something else altogether. The ability to actualize a subject, a series of relevent images, emotion, and meaning inside a form structure enhances a poet's ability to practice exactitude.

Even with the most strict forms it would seem that for a reader to be sufficiently distracted by the rhyme and meter to classify the poem as 'singsongy', there must be problems with the quality of the poem for the impact to be so minimal that the over-riding impression is one of the simple pre-ordained mechanics of the form. When a poem contains striking imagery, excellent narrarive, or touches upon a universal truth, these are going to be the things that will stick in the memory.

I'm including recent examples of a Monotetra, a Rondeau, and a sonnet in which I feel I was able to put across the intended message (and if I could do it anyone can):
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
black hillside- Monotetra
-
I spat the blood, spewed the clotting
tongue out hanging metal spotting
eyes are swimming worlds are plotting
black green rotting, black green rotting
-
My breastplate long had cleft in two
I'm yellow red and black and blue
I stare the hatred at a few
My eye on you, my eye on you
-
I bit the vein to show I would
I lit the train to show I could
I hacked the knee of giant wood
I fought each good, I fought each good
-
a fogbound day a folly stood
across me in the fledgling wood
a boy of eight and crying stood
knelt as I should, knelt as I should
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4/4 - Rondeau

4/4 by RW
-
Thump of bass boom, strumming thong string
growling earth shift, tectonic sing
moving pants legs, beating on chest
blood syncopation rise and crest
wet heart beats meet each pluck and ring
-
-
The BANG continues, living thing
the crowd bows to an aural king
sweat drops traverse a heaving breast
Thump of bass boom
-
-
The pulse of thrum meets tendon's ping
a large, dark bird unfurls wing
the dance floor has become its nest
the moistened crowd is swallowed blessed
all eyes wondering what will bring
Thump of bass boom

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Innsmouth Sonnet by RW
(Thanks eternal to H.P. Lovecraft)

The flood tide pushed the barriers today
a wraith unseen is shredding its wet rage
the workers see the swells and run away
she's come intent to pull me from my cage

my look gave her permission, come inside
our business old, suppressed, and placed behind
she eddied close and kissed me satisfied
that I had called her back into my mind

The dried up stream bled forth a muddy cask
The gills tore loudly loose along my side
relieved I tore the last strands of my mask
To show the face so long I had to hide

We floated back to shore with certainty
and now we rule the depths eternally

Ron

BlueDemon77

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

in 600 less words, singsongy means crap poetry, or Hallmark.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

This being the discussion phase, I was stating my thesis. It was long but thorough and I think many of the points I made are very much valid for the workshop. Form is a large step into the craft of poetry and is by no means archaic. It's fine if you wish to be dismissive of my statements, but do you honesty think the whole of my concept was "singsongy is crap or Hallmark"?

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

just being a smartarse

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I've been known to be a bit of a smart arse myself so I can dig where you're coming from. Please feel free to call me on it if I start taking my self too seriously...lol.

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

It's pretty obvious to most that rhyme patterns are only one aspect of poetry which can affect the quality of a poem. It would be near impossible to cover everything which Does give the nursery rhyme feel to a poem in a single short workshop. Indeed even covering All patterns in one shop would be a bit of a stretch. Hence tha "baby step" approach. In This shop we are covering only the most prevalent patterns and how they can affect the natural sound which most people seek in their writing. My next shop will delve into the less prevalent patterns and later shops will cover the effects of line length, imagery and even when minor meter breaks are desirable. Also, please try to limit the length of any comments. Being more concise will not only increase the chance of the comment being read but will also allow the shop to proceed at a better pace.
And I agree that in the best rhyming poetry the rhyme is nearly unnoticed. The reader should 1st think "Boy that's a good poem" Then"Oh yeah, it rhymes too".................stan PS I'm going to start working on keeping My comments shorter too lol

author comment

This was a thesis statement which covered everything I considered relevant from what I'd read in the comments from the other workshop members. I don't expect to go that long again as the individual topics are addressed instead of a general overview of all-inclusive topics about the subject of the workshop. I'll try to keep it short from here on out.

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

I reckon some folks think they have to say all they have to tell in one post lol. But in my shops the discussions are ongoing so you are free to not get numb fingertips from posting all at once.....................stan

author comment

word usage would be what we are talking about here

i think we need to understand that most forms have been invented for the purpose of eliciting particular emotional responses

a lot of the french verse, for example began as a medium for light-hearted work
- thus the easiness of the form to make fun writes.... but they can be written on serious subjects just the same by using some poetic devices … using a change of meter - from tetra to penta for example - and selecting stronger words and rhyme than the common all helps in solemnifying a write

xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Singysongy poetry and verses, have been around since the Dark times of chants and biblical learning to nursery rhymes to warn people or to give them a history lesson.
They are the absolute base for all writing, form poetry is not archaic it is the Nursery rhymes and psalms that preceded any written poetry sang by the scribes in David's times and only written up and corrected later, then you have the children being taught.
The times tables and many things way before the written word, in Ireland the schools in the fields NO books to write just singysongy ways of learning.
The classic is the Hebrew's first Five books of the Old Testament where they learned from scrolls, way after the singysongy was passed down to them by their teachers.
So I say that the singing is the first, then songy then the written word, Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

The motivation behind my doing this shop is all the times I've heard here and on other sites that western classic poetry was inferior due to the inherent SS quality it tends to engender. (Usually stated by free form adherents, and no I'm not saying You if that's what you think lol). So I started exploring the poetry which read so naturally that the rhyme was almost incedental to the write. One of the things used to accomplish this was to use rhyme patterns which were less intrusive. We're exploring the simpler patterns in this shop but will get into the more complex ones later. And even later we'll get into using stanzas with three, five and more lines as well as word usage to help lend a less rhyme driven feel to poetry.
Hence ya'll can see that this shop is just the beginning of a series of shops on this subject. I've simplified this shop in order to encourage free versers who are shy about attempting rhyme to enter. I also am attempting to not drag it out so folks won't get worn out by it. Best to learn a little and learn it well than try to learn too much at a time and become confused and disheartened. Good ol' baby steps lol.
So if any are wondering why that stupid scribbler is skipping over so many things that also help in avoiding SS now you know. I hope to cover them all but do so in incremental easily digestible shops with time in between them to allow participation in other shops of interest..................I apologize for this long comment........stan

author comment

I took so long to get my two cents in. My favorite right now is, ABAB. I do like to switch up a little, and use longer lines to vary the meter and thus prevent the singsongy feel.

There is value to commenting and critique, tell us how you feel about our work.
This must be the place, 'cause there ain't no place like this place anywhere near this place.

Don't worry about being "Late". Poets are like wizards, they are never either late nor early. They arrive exactly when they should. ( OK, I stole that from Gandalf in Lord of the Rings lol.................stan

author comment

ABBA is the best singy songs I have heard for a long time then the Queen and a few other groups, Have a lovely day out there,
Yours Sparrow. La La De Bumpty A

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

I've been trying to figure out a time to move to the next part of this shop (posting 1st poem). There is no time which will be great for everybody so let's begin posting 6 hours from now. For once the start time will be most inconvenient for us in the U.S,
Now a reminder of what to post so you won't have to search back over all the previous:
Poem should have no more than 5 stanzas
Poem should be in quatrains
Poem is to use end rhyme
Poem should be written in the most sing song manner you can ***
You may use a previously written poem or write a new one or even use a poem you read elsewhere
Poem to be posted on stream with shop name included in title block
***singsong is going to become pretty worn out. So from now on in this shop we can shorten the phrase to SS if you want......If you have questions fire away and we still have 6 hours for any further discussions............stan

author comment

About to go to work. I see ya'll are posting poems now which is great. I'd like everybody to include in your comments Why you think each poem has the SS feel about it. At the same time you can Think (only think at this point) how a change in rhyme pattern might improve each poem. See ya'll in a few hours when I hope to get a chance to review the poems. Everybody's doing great so far...............stan

author comment

is sing-song, fluffy
poor poetry
or fun ditty
rhymed glibly
amply arty
hallmarky
mother-goosey
or just plain crazy?

is it purely
much too hammy
or somewhat gushy
smart and sassy?

or rhyming pretty
with rhythm jingly
does it, somehow, cleverly
make one feel warm and all-over tingly?

just what, pray, do you think ‘sing-songy?

it seems silly
at least to me
to purposely
write crappily

xxxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Actually TRYING to write in a SS manner is harder than we all thought isn't it? Since almost eveybody has posted a poem now, I'll let you know which poem each person will be assigned to upgrade. It's pretty simple. Go back to the top of this page. Check the participants list. The name which appears below your own is the author of the poem you will be working on. Ian, Feign is a late joiner so you will have to wait on his post. But there will be plenty of time still to work on his once he posts his.
Now all types of improvement will be great, but since this is a rhyme patterns shop each improved version MUST have a different rhyme pattern as part of the improvement.

Don't post your improved versions yet, this is just to let ya'll begin working on them. Hope everybody is having fun and feel free to ask if you have questions......................stan PS don't post yet as some edits by people....me for instance.....are yet to be posted

author comment

I know that changing rhyme patterns will require changing a good many of the words in some lines. So don't worry about doing so. I just ask that any changes not affect the overall meaning of any given stanza too much so that the poem is still recognizably the same write.
I'm also seeking from ya'll ideas on what might be the best way to compare the earlier and the changed writes?

author comment

This being a Rhyme Patterns shop the whole idea is seeing how the same poem can be affected by using different patterns. Now changing other things to give a more natural sound to the lines is OK as long as the Pattern is also changed and the original overall message of the poem isn't lost . So I'll leave it up to you whether your edit fits this criterion. But please wait about posting so that we will all stay fairly even in our progression through this shop.......................stan PS At least you're getting extra practice lol

author comment

We all are leading busy lives so it's no surprise when somebody skims instead of reading lol.............stan

author comment

I'd love a 10" x 12" glossy photograph picture of the face of the poet who got stuck with me. Mea culpa for trying to join in, I'll get there eventually. <G>

I would only slow you down, humbly I beseech you to let me audit this class until mitosis occurs. I did have some fleeting thoughtery:

Oh, woe is me, the newest pea
in this workshop pod,
you're killin' me, oh don't you see?
you make me think I'm odd ..........
~~~}]#$%]:o) <-------odd hat
I'm reading as fast as I can and I think my brain cell will catch up eventually, but in the meantime I get it, form,
aabb,abab,yzzy, SS, and will read it over, reference it,and all that good stuff. I already use it, and that leads to my question (Scribbler told me I had to ask one.) Does anyone sit down and say "I think I'll write a terzanelle, THEN look for inspiration?"Oh, there's my laundry basket, I know!!! I'll write about lost socks.." I ask this because its a foreign concept to me, except in educational way which is exactly why I am here.(not lost socks) (geesh) I happen to like SS poetry sometmes, and love when an idea falls into a soft place, nestled in a perfect form. Personally I require inspiration to dictate form, and it happens pretty fast ANYWAY..I have to keep reading you till I catch up.

no one even TRIED "banana, fanna, fo fanna, fee fie fo fanna, BANANA?

"No stinking quote yet" Feign

Well you have just posted a comment so that part of requirement is satisfied lol. If you've waded through about half this discussion and you feel comfortable in doing so you can go ahead and post you poem now( as long as you are aware of poem's requirements which are : 5 stanzas max, quatrain form with end rhyme. make it as sing song as you can. You can catch up the rest of the way with reading as we go along. See, I'm a slave driver but not an Evil one lol.............stan

author comment

I would send a picture so
but it would be too much to forgo
All feelings of neutrality
So that is why I hide this me
lol Yours Ian.T

I shall await your poem on rhyme I think that the way it goes you have to comment on Stan's master piece lol

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

comments.
So I would say her work is done. Should I take Geezer's instead?

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

as per above instructions you should rewrite Rula's..............stan

author comment

It is almost impossible to change the rhyme without changing the meaning in eph's piece. The alternates are really few.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Please follow me on Instagram
https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Ephraim is a master of the craft. It would be hard to improve.

My only disagreement with him is in his current signature
"life is like poetry, it must be composed by ear,
feeling and instinct, not by rule. nevertheless,
one had better know the rules, for they sometimes
guide in doubtful cases -though not often."

Find a way that he doesn't know the rules. I don't envy you, he is clever, but not well educated.

If you can't, don't worry. When it comes to poetry of deep meaning and value, his ignorance will show.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I spoke the truth as I see it.
It's always bothered me that with your undeniable talent you don't say things worth saying,
see my signature.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

"Sometime the best honesty is that which is left unvoiced".............stan

author comment

honesty is always best voiced.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

And what do you tell your wife/girlfriend when she asks "do these pants make my butt look big?" surely best to not say "no your fat butt makes the pants look big". Maybe best to equivocate at the time then later on mention that it might be a good idea if you both started walking a bit more. Unless, of course you Enjoy having stuff thrown at you lol............stan the diplomatic man

author comment

within those questions.
No. Honesty is always best.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

there is always room for the comic writer jess - as with the stand-up comedian and the comic play or movie – humour and satire are used, but the performer doesn't necessarily have to say anything important - just make us laugh

but too - i've read some very thoughtful works of crud's that you have perhaps missed ... ?

love judy
xxxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

and I don't deny he has placed some pertinent words.

Yet, we all know where we stand as poets. For Rula it is a hobby and it means nothing to the world. To me it is my life and must mean something. For you, I think it is a powerful expression of your intellect, not quite connected to your emotions yet. For Stan, he likes the pastoral and aspires to Robert Frost, and could get there, but needs to learn exactly what he is teaching.

Need I go on?

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I'll look his over again and PM you a few ideas to get started.................stan

author comment

Les Fleurs Parlent
_______________
"look at me" said Magnolia tree
"my flowers big as plates!
the regal rose looked down her nose
said "probably what you ate."
.
The marigolds a rowdy crowd interjected thus
"pretty is as pretty does"
"oh pretty rose you'll rue your words"
"for you'll get snipped, not us."
.
the peonies hung heads so low
way down, as though confused
they should have been supported more
their perfume thus suffused

The shabby daffodils exclaimed
"The crocuses have croaked!"
the wilting tulip looked at them
said "we're next in this game.'
.
"we're all meant to be called "
the elegant iris spoke
"but look at morning glory there
wide open, sun enthralled"
.

Possible Ouote arising.....
meanwhile I THINK this is ABCA-5 quartrains-end rhyme

Lesilly

where are we supposed to post our poems that are really someone elses???
i'll put my take on geezer's on here for now will i?

upon the gong he bangs as while
her heart goes loudly, thump, thump, thump
before too long she starts to smile
her body starts to jump, jump, jump

He bangs away all night and day
She doesn’t mind it a bit rough
Jill thinks that it’s alright to play
She hopes he never gives it up

Jack, well, he’s more than really good
His timing, rhythm, both first rate
He keeps on like a rabbit would
He don’t do nothing funny, mate

He just keeps on, the beat just goes
He never falters even once,
He’s the meat to her potatoes
Cos Jack is not a bumbling dunce

And Jack and Jill will do just fine
When comes the final broken straw
They both have had such a great time
with coke* there is no need to pour

*registered trade mark

hope this is ok gee xxx
love judy

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

http://www.neopoet.com/comment/71997#comment-71997
who Am I supposed to work on now?

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

but still, i don't think i used a different rhyme scheme with yours...

i'll have to wait for teach to tell me to go to the corner lol

xxxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

I would take your revision of my poem, post it to the workshops with the title "Waking Rhyme- revision by Judyannne for Rhyme Patterns" and let Stan sort out who I should work on.
But ask Stan first.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

i think he wants it as he first said...
lol - he'll be along soon
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

i didn't use a different rhyme scheme after all
never mind - easily fixed

upon the gong he bangs as while
her heart goes loudly, thump, thump, thump
her body starts to jump, jump, jump
before too long she starts to smile

Jill thinks that it’s alright to play
She doesn’t mind it a bit rough
She hopes he never gives it up
He bangs away all night and day

His timing, rhythm, both first rate
Jack, well, he’s more than really good
He keeps on like a rabbit would
He don’t do nothing funny, mate

He just keeps on, the beat just goes
He never falters even once,
Cos Jack is not a bumbling dunce
He’s the meat to her potatoes

When comes the final broken straw
Our Jack and Jill will do just fine
They both have had such a great time
with coke* there is no need to pour

*registered trade mark

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Now you don't have many alternates.ONLY mine I think..hehehe...Poor you :-)

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Please follow me on Instagram
https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

All this pissing and moaning. You know it could be one of You instead of me having to come up with a pattern which changes with each stanza lol...................stan

author comment

now you know why I get so mental running workshops.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Everybody can begin posting their revisions on others' poems now. It is also time to start Thinking(only thinking) about ways to improve upon the revisions made to your own poem. That is the next step. ......stan

author comment

are we to post them as our own? they're not...
xxxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

I still reckon Judyanne has already done this exercise on my poem, but to repost it?
Then Whose should I work on?

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Post revisions on stream with "revised" included in title block. If anybody knows an easy way to post both the original and the revisions on same page speak up and share as that would make it a lot easier to compare and contrast. I'll be gone for a few hours so ya'll keep on keeping on..................stan

author comment

and your own revision together, as a new poem on the Stream in this workshop.

It doesn't take credit for the original.

Rula's for me? I thought it would have been Geezer's if Judyann'es is accepted for mine. That way it doesn't re-arrange everyone, with respect, that's less rocket science.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

pm the poem to the person whose it is and they can cut and paste post it under their original write with 'revised by....'
??

and stan - please answer jess's question - am i doing his or geezer's poem?
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

does that work?

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I thought I'd made it simple enough. Go ti the top of this page, check the paticipants' list. Find your name on the list. Look directly under your name. Whoever's name is there is whose poem you should be revising. Only exception is Feign. There's no name below hers so she's stuck with me. Now if you want to do more than the one assigned that's OK but don't go overboard and do 4-5-6 of them lol.
And it will be most helpful to post both the original and your revision on the same page whatever method you use.

author comment

This might be a good tme to buy stock in aspirin lol. The headache isn't That bad yet .....................stan

author comment

The revised poem needs to be listed under the name of the one doing the revisions not the original writer. Plus your assignment is Rula. In the next step the poem will go back under the original writer's name. But the manner in which you put the 2 versions is fine. one below the other.............stan

author comment

I knew this would be a challenge, because all I usually do is write a poem, then look for things that look off kilter, shine it up and let it loose.I tried to write a crummy sing-song poem, and succeeded spectacularly (imho) but I don't know what to do with it. My understanding is that I am the end of the line, and I think Scribbler is supposed to make it sing-songier . It's up there somewhere. THEN I think we are supposed to take (our assigned-by-Scribbler) partner's poem and use the form we created to re-write their work without losng their line of thought, just utilizing primarilly the end rhymes.IF this is my task I will gladly attempt it, I just need to know what poem to butcher :o].Last but not least I don't want to be the whiny crybaby poophead quitter, so kindly bear with me, my lack of education yadda, yadda,yadda. I have plenty of heache medicine, my poem is "Les Fleurs Parlent" and I chopped it to make the size requirement...gtg for a while.. and I know its not rocket science, it's art,an infinitely more complicated thing .
Feign (hiccup)
"Bet you thought this was a quote, HA." Feign

Glad it's not Me having to catch up lol. You being on the bottom of the list mean that you are stuck with my poem. But 1st things 1st. Take your poem and post it on stream. Be sure to click on the button at the bottom of the submission page which says "workshop". Then hit rhyme patterns. Make sure to include the words "rhyme patterns "next to the title of your poem. This will make it easier for folks to find it.

Now, you take my poem and use a different rhyme pattern to rewrite it. The only restriction is to maintain the content or meaning of the poem. You can even change the words which rhyme and lengthen any line if urge hits you. Remember the whole point of this shop is to explore the ways in which rhyme pattern can be used to decrease the singsong effect in a poem. You can use Any rhyme pattern you choose in the rewrite. Once you are satisfied with my poem which you've rewritten post it on stream and include" rhyme patterns rewrite" in title block.When you post the rewrite also post the original on the same page so as to make comparisons between the two easier....If you have questions feel free to ask either here or via private message...........stan

author comment

I will try and sort out your Rhyme poem as soon as I can I have been very busy and it is still waiting..
You have to do Stan's poem so good luck with your work,
Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

Thank you..
Leslie

Ron has yet to post his poem, I cannot rework something that he hasn't posted yet. I see that Jess is anxious to do mine, and it might keep him out of trouble for a while. Or maybe not... Anyways, let it fly, Jess. ~ Gee

There is value to commenting and critique, tell us how you feel about our work.
This must be the place, 'cause there ain't no place like this place anywhere near this place.

I'll give Ron a kick in the pants lol. This stage of the shop has no time limit (the revising stage) so you will have plenty of time. Thanks for the wake up as I thought all had posted.............stan

author comment

It's written in notepad but I can't seem to find a way to find where to post the poem. This is my second workshop and in my first Barbara decided to use the syllabus link as the posting sight for our workshop assignments. If you could perhaps help me by letting me know which link or area I should post my poem, I can get it to you tonight. Sorry about that.

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

but at the bottom of the screen before saving you will see a 'Workshop' drop down, choose Rhyme Patterns.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Can I join ? or am I too late ?

I can rhyme (sometime)
For a bit ( no shit )

Ian

TIME FLIES LIKE AN ARROW, BUT FRUIT FLIES LIKE A BANANA

You're welcome to join but you have a lot of catching up to do. There's also the problem of whose poem you will revise and who will revise yours but I'll figure something out. You're in...............stan

author comment

Stan, Hi , as this late, late attempt was all my fault, I'll give this workshop a bye. I will keep an eye on it and hopefully learn something. Thanks for your time

Ian

TIME FLIES LIKE AN ARROW, BUT FRUIT FLIES LIKE A BANANA

No problem. The next rhyme patterns shop won't be a lot harder than this one. You're still welcome to leave commentary as in all shops...............stan

author comment

Newbie alert. I can't find the original poems, only the rewrites. This is why I haven't been able to post my poem for Geez. If anyone could give me a hand I would be most appreciative.

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

4 inches that OK, for measuring the horses with lol
You put your poem in as normal with the workshop heading then you rewrite mine for the exercise under your own name with a heading of who it is for, just follow the same as the others... See you there soon,
Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

All shop poetry was posted directly to stream as yours should also. Just post your poem as you would any other but put "rhyme patterns" next to title and be sure to hit shop button on bottom of submission page which will bring up the correct shop to hit. To find the original for you to revise just click on author's name which will send you to his/her page which will list all their poetry. The title should be near the top of the list with only "rhyme patterns" next to title. Hope this answers your questions and holler if it doesn't..............stan

author comment

at top right there is a small link
>> View all poems submitted to this workshop
which takes you to
http://www.neopoet.com/workshop/view/9290

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

to the critiquing here?
quite a few poems have only a couple of comments...

love judy
xxxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

There seems little to say about the originals but about whether they rhyme properly and are SS.

My most pertinent comment, that applies to Rula's and... someone else's, is that the ones with serious content tend less to feel less SS. This is a very pertinent point.

Remember a while I issued a challenge in a blog to write a serious limerick? Almost no-one could do it.

I''ll try to comment more on the re-writes, but having been lagging, time restraints, and most pertinent commentary seems to have already been made.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

no need for your apology - i see your poem is one of those with few comments
and i agree- it is difficult to crit re ss with simply using rhyme scheme as the major point

i don't believe that rhyme scheme is the real reason for ss result in a write
it has more to do with word usage, form, text and meter (imo)

love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Ya"ll are doing great in shop which has turned out to be more challenging than even I had anticipated. Anybody who has not yet posted their rewrite of another's poem needs to do so soon. I hope to move to next step approx. Wednesday. If we can progress at a reasonable rate we will add one more step after this next one. If not, I'll save it for the next rhyme pattern shop........................stan

author comment

It seems almost if not every body has caught up so on to next stage. Having tortured ya'll by making you write badly , I'll now make up for it. Each person now rewrites his/her original poem and this time do so with an eye to making it as good a poem as possible. Only requirements are to try to keep the SS as unobtrusive as possible and to write in a different rhyme pattern than the original. Oh yeah, you can even lengthen it to 6 stanzas if you feel the need.

This time post it on stream as a separate poem and include "rhyme patterns final edit" in title box....................stan

author comment

Hi everybody. It's been a blast and I think we All learned a few things. I'd like to thank you all for participating and putting up with me. My next shop is probably going to be an extension of this one in which more advanced patterns and stanza lengths and such will be delved into.So thanks again and hope to see you in next shop..........stan

author comment
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