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WHERE ARE YOU ? (memorable free form final entry)

Where now are the men of peace ?
I want to scream and shout
Who pleads for calm in crowded cities
urging mobs to stop and think
if their God approves

For now is the time for all brothers
regardless of their birth or faith
to unite against barbarian fanatics
and let them know..ENOUGH!

Tell them that they are not Godly
at least not to any God we love
they are no ally to Allah
no followers of Christ
no friend to Buddah
no believer in any True religion

Speak out Now all moderates
let us know that you are there
scream indignation at atrocities
...............or............
keep your peace
and by doing so
reveal your kinship
to the new savages

Style / type: 
Free verse
Review Request (Intensity): 
I want the raw truth, feel free to knock me on my back
Review Request (Direction): 
What did you think of my title?
What did you think of the rhythm or pattern or pacing?
How does this theme appeal to you?
How was the beginning/ending of the poem?
Is the internal logic consistent?
Last few words: 
To my joy I see some Muslims for a change protesting Against the radicals in Libya...........yet to hear of a Muslim cleric condemning the torture, sodomizing and murder of our ambassador.................................
Editing stage: 

Comments

... (and I paraphrase) "that these people desire to be offended. They wait for the opportunity."
I believe this, but I also know that in a land of millions only a few thousands are in the street. It is difficult for the reasonable among them to speak out when they live in a land of uncontrolled fear.
They have no tradition of self government and as it took us one hundred years to work out the largest bugs I cannot see them doing it any swifter.
In the meantime, the whole place is a mess.
I think your poem was successful as my comment was entirely based on its content and not its form.
wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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Yet the only mullahs one hears are the ones urging war against the west. I hope to be proven wrong but so far the Arab spring reminds me of what happened in Iran........................stan

author comment

A well written rant, but our little rants will not be remembered does that mean that they are not memorable.
It is the failing of all men that their religion comes before humanity and there is less humanity taught now.
We hear more of Go Kill, Destroy and many other minless ravings these days.
Get rid of all those religions and teach the children to embrace their fellow man.
A sad dream but again that is the greed of man, and what can we write that would be a common phrase in stone on each grave stone.
This human walked the Earth not seeing their fellow man,
Whoops it is nearly Sunday, Good day for shopping as there is less traffic, or is there another reason for Sundays..
Go well young Stan, walk among the Aspens and give thanks that you can see their beauty, Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

My view of aspens becomes clouded with the shouts of those who want to see me and mine dead. And I don't blame religion, I blame false clerics who are blinded by blood lust and wish only to spread hate instead of brotherhood. I see and hear few Christian leaders calling for the destruction of the Arab world. Perhaps the pendulum will soon swing back toward the men of reason and away from madness................stan

author comment

Why does America support Israel and provide her with all types of weapons to kill the Palestinians on their own land (I don't need to prove it is a Palestinian land, do I?) and for decades now? Is it forever justified to kill the Arabs whereas the Arabs or Muslims not to defend them-selves?
Sorry!Does this make it Two questions ?Hope not too much to be answered honestly and don't tell me that Palestine is another story because it is not, as far as I see it.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Please follow me on Instagram
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Have you not noticed that America tends to support democracies? Even the Muslim brotherhood. As to the "Palestinian homeland", how about the part of their historical land now occupied by Syria? Seems to me the Palestinian problem is more a problem with intolerance for Jews than a real estate issue. And do you really expect Israel to just roll over each time they're attacked? The surrounding Arab countries (most of whom refuse to even admit Israel's right to exist) have been in a declared war with them since the day Israel was created by the UN. The Palestinians have a treaty in place which gives them a chance at their own country but keep breaking the provisions by attacking and killing Israelis who then counter attack.

Wouldn't it be nice if both sides could forget the past and be willing to co-exist? It is my opinion that this may have already happened if it weren't for the mad mullahs in Iran who keep inflaming radicals with their open pledge to destroy Israel.
This is the way I view the situation, one country struggling to survive against people who have been misled. Thanks for the visit and your views....................stan

author comment

"Wouldn't it be nice if both sides could forget the past and be willing to co-exist? It is my opinion that this may have already happened if it weren't for the mad mullahs in Iran who keep inflaming radicals with their open pledge to destroy Israel"

If the Americans had accepted the aborigines , I think the Palestinians will accept the Israelies in theirs

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Please follow me on Instagram
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It seems the argument is over whose land Israel sits upon. I would say the Israeli claim goes back at least as far as that of the Palestinians. Perhaps in time the Paletinians will realize that sharing what they consider to be their lands is not such a bad thing. But as long as they keep firing their rockets into Israel and continue to be unwilling to even accept the existance of an Israeli state, the Israelis will continue fighting for a land which they also lay claim to.

BTW, didn't ancient Palestine also occupy lands presently held by other Arab countries also? I don't see any of Them jumping at the chance to return their "occupied" territories. Maybe the two sides would do well to let we poets decide their futures lol.............stan

author comment

"didn't ancient Palestine also occupy lands presently held by other Arab countries also?"

Stan...I think you need to read better history books, but I am sorry I can't recommend English ones. Or do historians play their games too?

 

Any way my point is whenever there is any kind of opposition, rights taken , don't ever expect peace whoever the two parties are, you got my point?

Thanks again for understanding or trying at least to understand my point .

 

btw..I find the piece a memorable one as it really hits home, but if I were you I would make it universal by loosing the following lines ,

Speak out Now the moderate Muslims
let us know that you are there
scream indignation at atrocities
 

so it would relate to any parties or people or group but it is just an opinion as you know and it is up to you. 
 

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Please follow me on Instagram
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Perhaps a more universal thing Is more appropriate as there are barbarians within all societies. I'll give this some thought and see what I can come up with...................stan

author comment

The first people of notable civilization (meaning other than hunter/gatherer tribes) were the Canaanites who built a number of cities around 2000 BCE (Before Common Era). These people would influence the gene pool of both Palestinian and Israelite. Once a people enters into a region, it is impossible to argue that ALL of them left to make way for another group. This is not my argument- this is anthropology.

Around 1400 BCE or so, Canaan was overrun by the Egyptians of the New Kingdom and made a vassal of that empire. Here again a people has entered into the region now known as Palestine/Israel and it must be inferred that of the warriors (with their support population of slaves and paid workers) many will have remained once more changing the gene pool.

This is followed in 1178 BCE (the period known as "The Bronze Age Collapse") by the defeat of the Egyptians (led by Ramsses the 3rd). This was accomplished by a "Sea People" who were the forerunners of the Philistines (Greece). The gene pool expands.
Around this time the Israelites enter in from the east finally dividing their kingdom into two (Israel and Judah). The gene pool is getting crowded.

Now the Assyrian Empire conquers followed by Babylon and the Achaemenid Empires.

I hope you're beginning to get the picture.

There is no such thing as a homogeneous people. If one looks far enough back (and we needn't look very far) all people are related. Division is ALWAYS a recent development fomented by those who do not understand.

If one looks back no more than 10,000 years that one discovers we are all Chinese. Go back a few hundred thousand and we are African.
Palestine (or whatever you wish to call it) no more "belongs" the Palestinian than to the Israelite.

Humans live there and have for quite some time.

wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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Exactly the sort of passionate meaningful stuff Ron and I were looking for in putting this workshop together.
The form does not distract from content, and there is form, beautifully wordcrafted.

Personally I would have made reference to christian fundamentalist atrocities, like bombing of abortion clinics, to make clearer this is not an anti Muslim thing, but it is pretty clear anyway.

Well done, mate.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Good to see you back. There are plenty of wrongs to go around. And the abortion issue has them on both sides. In my opinion No abortion should be performed after the second month and women who scream about it being Their body should take precautions against unwanted pregnancies via birth control because after some point abortions affect 2 lives not just one............................stan

author comment

and murdering doctors who perform abortions has nothing to do with the abortion debate.

But on that debate you didn't mention rape and incest abortions. 2 months or 3.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

The bombers probably feel their actions are a pretty strong statement. Didn't mention incest or rape as I didn't want to get too deep into the details. Incest is likely the toughest thing but rape could easily be taken care of with the morning after pill which would halt the pregnancy before the fetus developed ................stan PS My personal opinion is that in MOST cases women have alternatives other than late term abortions if they just take the time to act responsibly...................stan

author comment

"The bombers probably feel their actions are a pretty strong statement. "!!!!!!!!! What the hell were you thinking? Bombing is ok if it makes a strong statement? I'm sure all terrorists think so.

I am disgusted.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

You misread me......again. I said the BOMBERS probably feel their actions are a pretty strong statement. I IN NO WAY agree that their actions are justified. Murderers are murderers no matter their misguided motives.........stan

author comment

no-one knew
found them at last,
chomped on my shoe.

All the best mate.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

As I said, and totally agree with Ron, that by not specifically mentioning Christian and other religious terrorism the poem does take on an anti-Muslim tone.

I really suggest you address this.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

although most of the fanatical demonstrations going on at the moment are in the Muslim world there ARE thoseleft wing fanatics marching in America also who are trying to shut down Wall Street. I think I can delete 1 word and make this all inclusive...se how this works now.............stan

author comment

More universal and less biased . Hope your beliefs as well .

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Please follow me on Instagram
https://instagram.com/poetry.jo?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

I am against fanatics of all types. A radical Baptist who bombs a clinic is as bad as a radical Islamist who attacks an embassy..............stan

author comment

To further clarify my position on abortion. In the event of incest an abortion within 4 months of conception should be ok. After that it's too much like murder in my opinion. In the event of rape the 1st action should be to take the "morning after" pill . To delay doing so is irresponsible if the woman is an adult. If not an adult, the 4 month rule applies. But my MAIN objection to abortion is those who use it as birth control instead of practicing responsible contraception. In the event a pregnancy endangers the mother of course abortion is warranted. Abortion, like all medical procedures has its place and when performed should be able to be done in a legal facility by a liscenced doctor.
"no uterus no opinion".........I have heard of married women having abortion because being pregnant was not convenient at the time and they did so without telling their husband(and child's father). In this case is the father without any rights? I guess if there's such thing as a moderate in the abortion debate I am one...............stan PS I'm sure there's Some aspect of this debate I've not covered but then, I never intended to open a debate on this subject either

author comment

perhaps "no uterus, no opinion" but I happen to agree with all of yours.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I think the poem is strong but feel it doesn't go far enough to establish that it isn't just against Islam. There is plenty of blame to go around with religion in general. Look at the Inquisition, the Crusades, witch-hunts over multiple continents, all in the name of Christianity. My wife is Moroccan and had a devoutly religious mother and brother. We've had our disagreements but never about religion. The call to the noble of all our faiths or lack thereof would be a more complete indicator of the stance of the poem.

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

I guess you didn't read first two lines of second stanza. And at the moment it seems to me it is the ones claiming to be Muslims who are commiting the most evil. Were I a moderate Muslim I'd be screaming at the top of my lungs that these jihadists do NOT represent Me. ...................................................do you hear the silence of the clerics???............stan

author comment

I gave you my opinion. Sure I read the first two lines, which comprise a small percentage of the total piece in which in my opinion, you largely concentrate on criticizing Islam when most other religions share as much or more blood on their hands. Talk to some Muslims and you'll hear their voices.

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

Perhaps the poem doesn't make it clear that I don't blame Islam but rather those who hide behind it and claim to be adherents then proceed to kill all who disagree with them. I see few Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Buddists, Hindus , ect going around storming embassies, targeting and killing civilians, killing and mutilating their own women and rioting in the streets each time they are "offended". Yet the radical false Islamists seem to think such is not only their right but duty to do such. I hope the day is approaching when the true Islamists reach the point where they take the point position in fighting against those who use their religion as an excuse for murder..............stan

author comment

We can hope the radicals are overthrown and reason prevails. I don't know what I fear most. Islamic Gun and bomb-toting radicals or American right wing gun and bomb toting radicals who wish to build a theocracy in the U.S.

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

That's the source of most problems in the world today. The loud radical minorities of all types seem to be willing to do almost anything to advance their agendas. ................stan

author comment

Don't know where the Dan came from. I guess it's the single syllabic nature of both.

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

I guess the "Dan" came from a tired brain lol. My apologies.................stan

author comment

Bloody well done Stan, this makes it a far more mindful memorable poem.

On a personal note. I agree with Ron. I fear gun toting Christian fundamentalists far more than Islamic ones. And your comment "those left wing fanatics marching in America also who are trying to shut down Wall Street" is just plain silly. They are peaceful protesters, expressing the right to protest in a free democracy and avoiding the necessity for the point you made elsewhere about the right to bear arms being for the possibility for the violent overthrow of government.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

There just seem to be far fewer Christians attacking embassies and rioting in the streets than radical so called Islamists who do so while hiding behind religion. The occupy Wall Street movement is as welcome to protest as the Tea Party people as long as they obey the laws while doing so. I think it was some type inspiration which allowed our founding fathers to set up a type government that can be overthrown via ballot but also made allowance for the ability of people to protect themselves in the event the government becomes too powerful to be changed by vote..............stan

author comment

Nazi Skin-heads, The Aryan brotherhood. There is a lot of organized hatred out there, which means we need a lot of organized love to counteract it. After all this and the multitudes of other reasons to want to give up on the human race, I still believe in love and nobility. I try to live it every day.

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

First off, I'd really like to know why extremely religious men are so damned afraid of women. Second, we men who believe a woman has a right to choose what happens to her body and her ability for making critical health decisions at every turn don't deserve medals or trophies of good-guy-ness. It's a simple, humble belief in what is right.

I've had an experience where my belief was put to the test, and I passed. I was heartbroken, but I did what I believed was right. Don't let the bastards get you down, Beau. There are a lot of us fighting them.

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

I think that the main reason that these fanatics fear women is that if the women had their say in the way of those places then those religious priests or whatever, would no longer have a job.
They rule men by telling men that it is great to kill and that all over the world men can be led so easily into fighting for what ever cause.. WHY?
There is no end to it, and until the world realises that to make a better world is by working at it instead of fighting over it the better.
Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

Sorry for late response. I've been gone a while ti clear my head. I'm glad you think the poem has been improved but I think it fairly obvious the that the ones being asked if their God approves is the mob. Also I may get labeled a heretic but one reason I mentioned so many dieties is because I believe more than just one person has been sent to show us the error of our ways.................stan

author comment

We in our own worlds have now gone from the initial poem to the basic rights of a person be they female or male.
This has covered everything from the person next door to the many things we hear of overseas.
Some of the things overseas have been brought to our door in the rights of man in their own countries or just fanatics going off on a murderous run.
This Poem and the comments is now a memorable piece in that it has effected quite a few of us.
Then let us think for a second, on why the world is like it is today, with the heated feelings of just us few here take it to the extreme of Seven Billion People that walk the Earth.
We live in a place where technology has left common sense behind, I can sit here and be Brain Washed by uncontrolled words flooding the screen with pictures to go with them, then if I am bad enough I can find out how to make a bomb, not just a small one either.
"ENOUGH" as Stan has said but in this time we cannot direct our rage at any one thing in this world..
One day, I hope that in the freedom that has taken over the world from the old controlling systems that was there, will see that war is stupid and a waste of lives.
The beautiful Markets (that are a world heritage) of Syria have been devastated by it's own people.
I heard this morning that 2000 American troops have now been killed in Afghanistan,
A child in the world dies every couple of seconds, what the Hell are we doing to ourselves ???????
I said to an old miner about thirty years ago in Wales, I Said "Arthur soon you will find that 500 people at a time will be killed and no one will take any notice" He replied that it wouldn't happen..
God rest his soul, I hope if he is anywhere else he would now see that it is part of man's stupidity to let it happen.

Shall we agree to disagree and carry on this talk some other time it is spreading to other areas that are away from the main point of the poem..
All other views can be put into Memorable poems and we can carry on.

Whatever bad has happened in your lives before the NOW I am sorry that I cannot heal them.
Unconditional Love you all, Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

A good place indeed to end the discussion of this mundane poem. Thanks for the visit...................stan

author comment

in on this workshop, I hesitated to offer my opinion on your work, Stan
I really enjoyed the back and forth and seeing the poem as it changed and spoke to each of the critics.
I work with the public in my job and I see them in a lot of different situations. I see them cry, see their anger, hear their stories of joy and triumph,
and know their troubles. I can tell that many many of them are tired of being afraid. We swap stories about how violence has affected our lives and for the duration of the ride; we bond. I feel that bond strengthen each time they ride with me and we share those moments of our lives. It doesn't matter much about the religion they do or don't practice, they all just want the same thing as me or you. A way to support and raise their family, peace to do it in, respect for their well-being. The extremists that distort religious-doctrine to retain a hold on power worry me, but so too, the young people that have no religion except "violence gets me respect". Also those people who think that they are the only ones who are right.

A man died and went to Heaven.
He was greeted by an angel, who was supposed to show him around. A big grey wall surrounded each city and you couldn't see over or around it, but the inside of each city was very beautiful, with many happy people walking around smiling. City after city was explored and the angel named each one. That's the Baptists, that's the Catholics, that's the Moslems, etc.
He grew silent after awhile, and when the angel asked him what was wrong, he replied; I see that many different religons are represented here but why all the big grey walls? .The angel said that was to keep them all happy, because they all thought that they were the only ones there!

I really enjoyed the poem and the discourse that it produced. ~ Gee

There is value to commenting and critique, tell us how you feel about our work.
This must be the place, 'cause there ain't no place like this place anywhere near this place.

Always good to get your opinion and input on my stuff whether shop poem or not. I like your story of the walled cities. But it's the interactions beyween religions which goes a long way toward making the world an interesting place. Unfortunately all religions have extremists and many extremists think violence is an acceptable way to spread their religion. Imy hope that one day the extremists will come to their senses but I'm not holding my breath. Appreciate the visit.......................stan

author comment

Great re-write. It is clear you are making a call to all those that aspire to piety instead of power. Very well done.

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

Thank you. I really get tired of all the violence being committed in the name of religion...............stan

author comment
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