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(tickle-tickle)

Even if only for one silent day.

Not just break a language barrier,
I want to lynch my native tongue!
Throw it back at evolution and hear
a new communication sung.

One of nudges, grazes, pets, and squeezes.
So even when we are falsely implying
our coy fingers will be sublimely rubbing
and hugging where we are all lying.

Spoken with sealed eyes,
tones, histories, and teeth.
Lest we send ill messages
with the semantics words can reap.

Embracing the bastard sense of touch,
penetrating a lonely proximity line.
Saving us the fake formalities
that precede a real friend of mine.

It knows no gender bias
and lacks accent to highlight the foreign.
No fear of gay or straight lisps
or hate for the money you are born in.

Subtle grips and caresses
would determine an individual’s diction.
Massaging each others bodies
would reveal relaxing accurate descriptions.

Granted I could not write this
to you without my English use.
But believe me I will teach
it face to face to anyone I choose.

Most understand how humanity
can sentence an "evil" life to be extinguished.
So why should murdering the dangerous
weapon of words be feared as undistinguished?

Addicted to the “way it is”
for fear of unknown love and pleasures.
Could our present planet truly be any
worse if we investigated radical measures?

Spoken word is my beautiful crutch
stylized and strung with clever decor.
But creativity’s root plunges downward
deeper than even imagination’s vocal chord.

Jump with me my courageous choir
splashing the earth in its own puddle.
Blinding eyes of traditional hatred with
our sound argument of intense cuddle.

Review Request (Intensity): 
I want the raw truth, feel free to knock me on my back
Last few words: 
Shark Pool. I have always loved the concept of this piece. But it needs some help. Vows of silence have always interested me. We envy people able to do it yet see no value in it for our species as a whole and I thought it was worth exploring. The bastard sense of touch was one of my motivators as well.
Editing stage: 

Comments

And that lovely children's story about the seven princes, the silent girl and her evil mother I law.
You have a very interesting take on life expressed in your poems.

what life will give and hope to make it into something we all find additive.

Thank you for reading.

_Danny

author comment

Sorry...Someone just let me know and I will repost it at the right time.

Thank you!

_Danny

author comment

we do ask participants to read the syllabus and follow the thread on the workshop page. You also didn't read the request to put (Shark Pool Workshop) in the title, which helps people finding the poem on the Stream know what it is they are ctitiquing. Ron will give you the intensive critique on this.

This is an Intensive Critique Shark Pool workshop. Each person is assigned a poem to critique, then we critique the critique.

FrenchF, this is why we ask you to read the syllabus before commenting in workshops. Would like to join the workshop? We still have places.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

That's nice!

am I allowed to comment? I guess if its in the stream, its in the stream, anyway I thought it was good but perhaps went on a bit too long with more thoughts on the subject than it merited.
You have a great ear, your 3 syllable rhymes and your half rhymes makes the verse exciting also your sense of rhythm and word power.
apropos of our last conversation, as we say in Australia no worries mate, no worries in the whole wide world. I don't think you need a mentor just keep going and listen to all forms of music, the melody of words is so important to poetry.
best of the best
ross

A note on this workshop though; each participant submits a poem and another participant gives it vigorous critique. Then the other participants review that critique. We are waiting on Ron's critique here so feel free to give feedback on that too.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

cheers

author comment

The first thing I wish to address in this poem is the overall tone. It's light and breezy and a joy to read. There are many things that aren't "according to Hoyle" correct, but that hardly matters when the piece is so damned catchy. If this were a song, it would drive me crazy by running through my head all day.

With such a substantial piece, I'm going to take my time and critique one thing at a time, meter, word-usage, rhyme patterns, etc. rather than trying to lump them all together. Above is my feelings about the work. I decidedly like it. Now it's time to get under the hood. I believe I owe honesty.

Meter is deployed here in a very un-identical way. Though there are hits here and there, it's clear the writer finds the message far more important than meeting some preconcieved rhythm pattern (Iambic pentameter, tri-dactylic, etc.) We find this out in the first three lines of the poem, and it continues throughout. Every once in a while an exquisite couplet comes along like:

Addicted to the way it is
For fear of unknown love and pleasures

One gets the idea that the poet could write whatever he wanted at whatever degree of discipline and simply chooses not to go with a more traditional form. The same would be said with the structure overall. The beginning lines tend to be shorter and more to the point and extra syllables inevitably are rendered in the last two lines, especially the fourth of the Quatrain. This is a tendency that a small amount of self editing would fix if formal patterns were ever the goal. The most important components of a good poet are here now, with the possible exception of the discipline of trying to fit these thoughts into a more rigid form. This did distract me in that it removed me at times from the music. I recognize this is an apparent choice here so it is not a knock on the style of the poem; If I were a TA in a poetry class I would have had to have take issue, however. The effect of the varying amounts of syllables per line upon the music and flow of the poem I consider the biggest flaw, and again, one which would be easily fixed.

Word usage is very good. A very good vocabulary is used precisely throughout. There is no point in the poem where I got the impression that the poet was grasping for words. It does lose some energy in the couplets beginning with Granted and Most to me. Instead of the soaring locomotive power of earlier couplets, these seem kind of dry and explanatory. Word usage is, again, very good throughout.

The Rhyme patterns are constantly changing as did the meter length. I would be lying if I didn't say it pulled me out of the work a bit at times, not at the inexact rhymes, but more when a perfect abab is followed by only the second sentence rhyme. For example 'touch' and 'formalities' in quatrain four compared to 'barrier, tongue, hear, and sung in quatrain one.

My critiques are all about the technical aspects of the writing and what I would think could lead an editor or contest judge away from this work. I can't take the topic seriously as any kind of statement and this and the style in which it is written leads me to believe it is meant to run on the momentum of humour. The piece itself is full of a joyous and light-spirited power. It is this energy that earns high praise. I do look forward to reading your future work.

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

a most important part of this workshop

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

I know I screwed up by posting it too soon and people should be staying away from it...but I love getting ripped apart! This a great feeling. It tickles me brain.
I will refrain from asking questions or engaging in discussions about the ideas expressed until it is actually my turn.
EEEEEeeeee! Excited!

_Danny

author comment

The critique is very thorough, clear and, for the most part, pointed. I do believe, however, that several punches were pulled throughout. Notably in the lines "This did distract me..."; "It does lose some energy..."; "I would be lying...". Each line appears to be an apparent "but" to a compliment.

It is quite clear that the reviewer enjoyed the poem and believes the work to be strong. It just seems that the if the punches were thrown, the writer would have just that much more insight on how to proceed. The writer did say they were seeking the "raw truth".

Scott

There seems to be a large amount of response to my critique which basically could be summed up to say "We wanted more blood." My ego doesn't need it and I don't feel the work deserves it. If the writer wants any more input from me, I would be glad to deliver it.

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

and I have been paying for it.

Thank you for continuing to discuss everything despite the highlighted hiccups in my haphazard approach.

_Danny

author comment

Let me sharpen my teeth lol. I think you may have been too concerned with counting syllables instead of stressed syllables which have more to do with smooth flow. You Did mention rhyme pattern variances. What you didn't say was whether you thought the variances were written to add emphasis to a stanza or stanzas which IMHO is a permissible reason for variance. Another acceptable reason for changing rhyme patters is when it is done as part of a write which gradually changes from one form to another.

I also think you should have identified the lines in which you think rhythm falters to the detriment of the poem. Why leave the writer guessing?

You also were free in pointing out the things you Did like which is as much a part of critique as saying what you don't like. I'll now swim back to a kelp bed ere the REAL sharks show up lol..........stan

No, I don't believe the variances in tempo and rhythm were meant to be there for any aesthetic reason. I believe the writer begins with precision with each quatrain and the momentum in the last two lines leads to what he or she feels is additional explanation. Also, I did give an example of my complaint about the abab rhyme scheme that was dropped almost immediately. Counting syllables is a part of considering stressed syllables to me. That is not the case here. These are there because the writer didn't take the time or effort or lacked the knowledge or just didn't care that he was turning in a flawed work. Not knowing this writer, I wouldn't know which. I also stated it at the beginning, I'm not here to rip on people. I saw flaws and I addressed them with tact, I saw good points and addressed them also. We've somehow gotten around to this definition of critique as a pirahna like feeding frenzy. Also, I make myself available to this writer if there are any questions.

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

If this workshop is only about writing critique aimed solely at the composer of an individual poem, why not just call it apprentice editing. Not wrong, but that would be a smaller plan than I would hope.

What about the content, the subject material, and the uderlying implications; philosophically, socially,politacally, and emotionally.

The depth of meaning is an important part of critique....a percieved (though subtle) bitter bite underlying the
write, was not addressed. Using humor to make a point is not always the best way if the topic is bigger, richer, more important. Humor may diminish one's intent. This is something else that could have been addressed in comprehensive critique.

poetry is more than just making words sound pretty, or catchy, or musical thought. Be brave as a critic. attack. Attack content with the same, or greater gusto as you would the mechanics.

That is where the genius of critical analysis lies.

Ron's critique was extremely easy to read, bright ,and well rounded. but could have dug in a little deeper.
.

Al

Believe me, I noted the meaning on the first read. What's being said here is our communication should be physical not verbal. I didn't make it a part of the critique because it is neither an interesting or plausable idea. The poet is reacting as if this were the 60s and the entire concept was throwaway. How, for example would this poem be recited, three wiggles and a butt bump? I understand there is a frustration that communication is not more physical but what do you do with that. It's antithetical to all our reasons for being here. To me, bringing that up would be akin to critiquing a blank page by saying: "a wonderful, scintillating exercise in negative capability." I see no serious underlying philosophical, social, political, or emotional meaning unless you wish to count: "the poet is tired of talking." This falls far short of any topic to critique and I believed the intent was humour due to the rediculousness of said concept.

Thanks,

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

is quite harsh and I think I dealt with it quite well. I responded in the same tone as your very firm dismissal.

_Danny

author comment

I certainly meant no offense by this post. It is an honest critique. I think the poem strides the thin line between humorous and serious and I was lead to believe it was absurdist in nature. You clearly have the craft and skill to write good poetry. After this workshop and the bashing I got for being too concilatory, I followed the path of the critics and teachers I've had. This was not meant to hurt you in any way nor besmirch your talent outside this one piece.

Thanks,

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

Ron covers just about everything. There's nothing I find lacking, and he gives a thorough look at the poem.

I particularly like how well balanced this is, praising the poem while pointing out the flaws as he saw them.

Does one have to provide his own interpretation as part of the critique? I'd like to know.

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

Yes I believe a vital part of a good critique is addressing the concepts contained within if they are unclear, interesting, or worthy of discussion. In the cases of topics that fall under these headings, addressing them is as important as addressing any other part of the poem. That's my belief.

Thanks,

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

I see your point, I gave a couple sentences in a long critique about the topic. A part of this is because I didn't believe it was a serious conceit, but a humourous one. I guess you're right to be thorough.

This poem addressed to me and its' audience the complaint that we've become a verbal society and that perhaps somehow a bit of our inner animal has been lost. Many cultures talk about these inner animals as guides but I dont believe it's that route the poet is taking. I get more of a Thoreau "We need the tonic of wildness" vibe from it. It was obvious to me from the beginning but since this topic was first introduced to me in 1976 (from the 1974 David Cronenberg film "Shivers", it didn't have the impact that perhaps it would have. It's about a scientist who believes humankind has lost it's animal nature and became weak, so he engineers a mixture between a parasite and a sexually transmitted disease and tries it on his lover. She begins acting on the aphrodisiace quality of the bug and spreads it quickly. It's like a horny Night of the Living Dead. To me, that would be the proper addressing of the subject matter. In the poem, it simply implies less verbal communication and more physical touch. I'm a hugger so I understand the therapeautic aspects of mutual human contact but the poet offers no answer as to what should replace the massive amount of vocabulary in this new physical theory, and therefore to me, rules out rationality in favor of humour. It matches the tone of the writing.

You are all right, I should have addressed this initially.

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

I appreciate it. I know the parameters now.

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

Your mind is programmed to think that our massive vocabulary is necessary for happiness at the core of human existence. But you must know we got by for about 3 million successful years with grunts or body language.
But incredibly I was not referring to a return to the inner animal. I was not preaching that we should explore our past. I was proposing from start to finish in my piece that we can invent something NEW here now. That evolving does not necessarily look so linear.
This species is not as predictable as your confident and proud mind thinks it is.That you know what is possible or even likely is an illusion. That imagining a new way to treat each other is not a bad idea. That the adults in our lives certainly are just as lost as the children. The far fetched and impossible world that I have created above is only so far fetched for those that do not stretch their imaginations to the absurd with comfort.

I love that you critique it as preposterous because that brings to light exactly the mindset that has given the youth a future of gloom. The lack of dreaming in our children can be attributed to the lack of hope and imagination that floats around in the heads of their teachers. We are all teachers to them.

You think I fill their heads with fluff and false dreams to strive for. I think their heads are so full of despair that the only way they will lead lives of purpose is if us teachers find a way to shake the brilliance out of them. To prepare the children for the future they will face by encouraging imagination. All of the greatest minds in industry innovate and do not simply surrender to the existence they feel they are bound by. You are so confident that you have already heard my idea before that you blend it with all other hippy artsy fartsy ideas from your past that you think it must be grouped with. Ideas that you believe were a failure. I believe a good critique to be less arrogant and more inquisitive when presented with what one might call the absurd. While the concept of the piece may not be a rational possibility.....it never was meant to be. It was meant to speak of mindsets that will imagine our way out of the worlds climate, economic, social, political, agricultural, and spiritual conflicts. Not mindsets set on it being impossible. Minds so sure that things are only possible if they get to see the end results and reap the rewards in their own tiny lifespan. Minds that cannot find success to be a reward sitting in the distant altruistic future of their species....perhaps 5 generations down the road.

While what you said sounded intelligent...my point is...was it wise?

_Danny

author comment

is a pretty strong opening to someone you know virtually nothing about. Or you could be using it in the generic sense, which would be equally erroneous. I've spent as much of my life un-learning as learning.
I like you, I like your strong, vigilant approach and I like your poetry. Just remember this workshop is about how we can better help each other with our "art and sullen craft". Which is what Neopoet is for.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

By no means am I upset or frustrated with the critique. I love this! I thought that we were to critique the critique and I would have said the same thing if it was not my own work. I caused him to further explain himself and I will learn from what he says. I agree that it may have sounded like I was attacking him a bit...but he can handle it. We are drawing each other out into the light here. Do we want a shark tank or not?

I wanted to know if it was helpful to dismiss the concept. I wanted him to know that he was off about the poems obvious excitement about inventing something NEW and not simply calling for a return to the old, the primal. When I said he lumped it with past thoughts I was correct because he said he did. I did not call his words "artsy fartsy" I said that he lumped this poem with "artsy fartsy" and wanted him to see the first line of the poem as the key. The first line states that it is attempting to dream about this being a possibility for just one day on earth. By missing this key in his critique he ran with the idea that he could avoid the concept on the grounds that it can and will never happen.

Thank you for defending him. But he has done it quite well down below. I am not afraid to prod someone so that they will dig deeper, especially when they are as capable as he is.

_Danny

author comment

Our massive vocabulary is vital for our communication, which is the most likely solution to any problem.

Respectfully,

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

I appreciate Jess standing up for me, however I do want to address it myself. No, I don't think a huge vocabulary equates to inner peace or happiness at the root of our being. Those factors are many and change from person to person. I personally never consciously attempted to have a huge vocabulary; It was simply a side effect of reading a lot for decades. If I didn't understand a word, I'd try to figure it out by context and if that was unsuccessful, I'd look it up.

What I don't understand is that you blast the critique (which is in part informed by Nietzsche's theory of eternal re-occurrence) for being close-minded and for being a thought process that would continue to throw our children into gloom and despair, then shortly later state that your conceit is absurd, then close by reiterating that it is a viable thought process again. In this context, that of suggesting a new approach I would need to see solutions in the work, which I don't. This to me equates tearing down the building so we could sit in the rubble. That's my critique for what it's worth.

Another thing, if you wish to make a non-personal discourse a personal one, that is up to you. It's a logical fallacy commonly called ad-hominem (attacking the person, not the topic). I won't fall into that. I veered off the subject in an effort to protect my delicate ego and that is where I became unprofessional and where I owe an apology first and foremost to neopoet and secondly to you. It will not happen again. I still do not get how your solution is a solution. Parents, teachers, mentors and the like should be the ones to show a child self-worth and inner strength. It's more practical and viable to widespread use.

As for the final bit, I never write to try to have someone think I'm intelligent or wise, in poetry, prose, critiques, etc. I have adequate confidence in myself as a writer with the healthy provision that I am on a journey and can always learn more. I'm not as rigid or intellectually conceited as you imply. If you were to read my work on the site you'd see I've done my share of absurd, comedic writings. My major point is that we are discussing me, not the topic of the poem, and that is what I must curtail.

Here's hoping there are no hard feelings and can move forward.

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

I'm sorry you took the critique so hard. I wouldn't be surprised if we see more of this in the workshop. You claim to "like to have your work ripped apart" yet when I pointed out that your concept didn't address a requisite solution you stated my words were arrogant, hippy-artsy-fartsy, etc. I can only critique what you've given me. I liked the rhythm, the energy, the positivity but the concept doesn't address the back end, and asking me as a critic to eschew my rationality to say, ok, even though no answers or plans are given, maybe Danny is right and in five generations, the front half of an idea he suggested may transform the world defies common logic.

Your answer to my critique is that I'm not open to an unnamed possibility. I say it's your job as a writer to give me a well defined one. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the ambition, but your plan/manifesto has gaping holes in it. It is more holes than it is substance, and yes, I would say that following the pattern and method of rational thought I've laboriously fought to attain all these years rather than falling headlong into an unstated therefore untested concept is indeed wise.

Respectfully,

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

I really loved what you have done so far. I just want to push it farther.
The solution is creating a style of thinking that flows from the absurd. This piece hopes to inspire others to write about giant dreams even if only to serve as a structure to express actual problems that we are currently dealing with. I did call your assumption arrogant because you were so sure I was referring to a return to the animal. It does not mean I think you are arrogant and I apologize if it seemed that way. I did not call your words "artsy fartsy" but rather the category you lumped the poem into was one where you believe it took itself seriously. It knows it lives as a device and not a reality. It says it right at the beginning. It also talks the whole time about creating something new very clearly. Which in your critique you seemed to miss. I am critiquing your critique. You missed some stuff. Unfortunately it is my poem so I seem to be defending it from the heart...but I really do not care about it getting ripped apart. I care about you critiquing it better and better. I think that is what is going on here and it just feels like emotions sometimes. I'll get better at being sensitive...I just feel safe in the Shark Tank. I know you can handle it.

_Danny

author comment

One of the stated objectives of this workshop was to critique the writing, not the writer. The same would go for the response. If you attacked my logic or any of the points I make I would listen and consider your assessments, because despite what you've written about me personally seems to suggest, I am very open to learning. I live for it. It is the a priori reason I continue to follow intellectual channels, to learn.

Once in my early years in college, a very trusted professor critiqued a long poem of mine by saying I was falling into 'philosophic nominalism'. In other words I came to a place where I loved the words more than the meanings they represented. She was right, and as much as it made my ass hurt at the time, I've grown so much from that simple sentence. She wasn't trying to discourage me, she was trying to address an obvious problem to which I was beginning to adhere. I also was not trying to discourage you, I just stated you've defined a problem well, hinted at a beginning of a solution, then left it all open as an unformed idea.

Respectfully,

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

Intelligent or Wise
Logical or Not
Thorough or Lazy

These are all about your critique. Not about your personality.
Shark Tank baby.

We do not have to be bound by the rules of common decency because we are talking about our writing here...not our personalities.

I love the meanings represented more than the words.

I know I seem harsh...but sometimes we have to shake the hell out of each other. If we are truly confident in who we are we will not feel attacked. We will feel challenged. But there is no need to defend our actual selves.
Just laugh at me if you really think I am judging a man I have never met. You know who you are.

_Danny

author comment

When someone solely praises me they have not left me anything to chew on and therefore I say thank you and leave it be. When these other more amazing critiques put themselves out there with theories and wonderful discussion I see an opportunity for us all to grow. I see them in some way expressing an interest in what is at the core. So I pounce on it. I might die tomorrow. I honestly try to live everyday like I might. A passive and slow dance of decency can be sidestepped without becoming all out offensive. I am going to get better at not making people feel guilty. But I am simply trying to make them aware of what they themselves are capable of. The guilt is a personal choice. Who is pushing these minds to limits of their constitutions? No one...because that is considered indecent. How sad I say. Why in the world would a POETRY site not live on the edge of comfort and fears?

It is a strange concept and counterproductive to try and inspire peoples constitutions that are walled up with mental blocks and fears by first asking their permission. Of course a large majority would say no. We hate to admit that we might be short sighted or still growing for some reason beyond me. But I will find a solution that makes everyone comfortable since comfort seems to be so revered. Where is the edge of humanities ever evolving strength and resolve writing powerful poems? Am I on the wrong website? Why must it seem like an ego flex to want to draw the unknown out of people? I completely see what you are saying about me bombarding people. But if mentors in my past had not bombarded me with raw truth and challenges I would not be able to so readily admit when I am wrong and I cherish that ability.

I am wrong so often and welcome you telling me so. I will re-approach my use of sharp teeth and start with baby steps for the rest of my critiques. Hopefully that will make you all see that I am capable of being slow and deliberate and that I have chosen the STEVE JOBS approach to criticism quite deliberately as you will see my new comments blend into the generic and easy to deal with. I had no wish to be a hindrance but I acted on a theoretical foresight that led me to believe I am planning beyond the safety of the immediate.

Imagine what it is like for me to hang out with people my own age.
Sigh.

_Danny

author comment

I also believe that my poems are not sacred. At all. They exist only to start conversations that the human condition desperately needs to take place. Conversations that lead us towards enlightenment in our own eyes and our own personal goals.

_Danny

author comment

hmm

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

I am 30 and of course I am dealing with the sticky fear mongering residue of being a mediocre being ;)
We cannot afford to be simply mediocre.

author comment

There is a point at which a critique is done. I feel that I followed much advice from the critiques of my critique and am relatively happy with the outcome. Anything more and I'd be delving into things I don't see in the work or just getting defensive or displaying some other form of human imperfection. I noted your conceit, your wording, your rhyme patterns and finally, thanks to Beau's astute observation, the content of the poem. It may not be the answer(s) you were looking for but it is my critique. Onward and forward I say!

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

but something is seriously going wrong here. I'm keeping my sentences simple here so they are easy read and communicate my point clearly.

Concise critique is important.

In my experience, long (especially verbose) critique can frighten and/or intimidate the recipient. The amount of text on the page or screen can overwhelm causing us to skim read or "tl;dr".

You need highlight the three main points you're going to critique on, then write one-two sentences on that point, then move on. Don't waffle.

Hope everyone does well in this workshop!

In my critique of eightmenout's poem, I was indeed bouncing off topic after topic like a pseudo-intellectual ping-pong ball. I should have prepared a text in a separate document, revised it, proofed it, then sent it through here. As it was I simply replied with spontaneous writing, thereby falling into all the pitfalls of that style: the over-sensitivity, taking things personally, and the aforementioned unstructured critique. If anything let my critique for tickle tickle and its' string stand as a great example of what not to do in a serious critique.

Thanks,

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

It appears that most of the squabbling is now over so I'll address the idea of non-verbal communication becoming the predominant means of communication. I guess such could well be possible in theory. But it would have to be a learned thing just as verbal communication is to day. In my opinion the non-verbal language would need to be taught verbally and would thus become a language spoken Only by older people who have learned it over long periods of time. In fact, this can presently be observed between couples who have been together a long time. They can condense paragraphs into a raise of eyebrow and a particular slight smile.

Now would this work for universal communication of highly technical matters? I don't see how, unless all such communications were relegated to written form. Unless of course the long awaited telepathy finally arises lol.

Now how does this all relate to this poem? When i began reading this poem I was 99% certain the poet was talking about the developing non-verbal communication between a couple. As such it was working well and was within the realm of the believable. But the protagonist then makes it clear that he/she is talking about eliminating verbal communications totally. This is when I lost interest in the poem. And can something which leads a reader to lose interest Ever be a good thing?.........................stan

This workshop is now ended.

Please give me feedback, either on the workshop thread
http://www.neopoet.com/workshop/show-and-tell-intensive-critique-workshop
or by PM, as to how you benefited from the workshop, criticisms and ways future workshops could be improved,

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

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