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Spring Is Here ( Critique Workshop )

Original

Spring is heralded by tubular bells
filling the woods with hyacinth smells
violet, white and lavender blue
caught in the droplets of morning dew.

and the cuckoo calls in the half moon light
in the silver grey just after night
his partner chuckles cloaked in the dawn
happy the robin is rearing her spawn.

while poppies undress their whorl sepals
unfurling crumpled silken petals
revealing pinks, oranges and reds
blushing colours in the flower beds.

fork tailed swifts nest in old wooden mills
filling the air with twitters and shrills
silhouetted black against the skies
lithesome on the wing when catching flies.

yes spring is here with it's wonderful hues
animal life and fabulous views
lashings of buttercup yellows and greens
cover the land and seep in our dreams.

----------------- partially revised version below ---- still on going, especially the last stanza ----

May

May is here with its tubular bells
filling the forests, woodlands and dells
spread like carpets of violet blue
sparkled with droplets of sunlit dew.

The cuckoo calls in the midst of night
in the silver grey of morning light.
his partner chuckles cloaked in the dawn
knowing the robin is rearing her spawn.

While tulips undress their whorl sepals
unfurling crumpled silken petals
revealing pink, oranges and reds
blushing faces in the flower beds.

Fork tailed swifts nest in old wooden mills
filling the air with twitters and shrills
silhouetted against the skies
lithe on the wing when swooping for flies.

Yes May is here with it's vibrant hues
abundance of life and striking views
lashings of buttercup yellows and greens
covers the land fulfilling our dreams.

-------------- Final Version ------------------------- unless you can see anything wrong

May

May is heralded by fragrant bells
layering the forests, woods and dells.
Sweet purple, white and breath taking blue
suspend in the glow of sunlit dew.

The cuckoo calls in the midst of night
In the silver soft of morning light.
A female responds demure and coy
heeding his voice with chuckles of joy.

Newly hatched tadpoles shelter in weed
hidden from beetles eager to feed.
Reeds and water mint offer them shade
close to the shore where grey herons wade.

Fork tailed swifts nest in old wooden mills
filling the air with twitters and shrills.
Lithe on the wing they swoop the skies
scooping up raindrops, insects and flies.

Yes May is here with it's vibrant hues
abundance of life and striking views.
Swaths of flora and lush meadow greens.
cover the land fulfilling our dreams.

Posting this before I head off to Portsmouth in the morning - probably wont log in again for a couple of weeks - unless I manage to find the time.

Love to all xxx

Style / type: 
Structured: Western
Review Request (Intensity): 
I want the raw truth, feel free to knock me on my back
Review Request (Direction): 
What did you think of my title?
How was my language use?
What did you think of the rhythm or pattern or pacing?
How does this theme appeal to you?
How was the beginning/ending of the poem?
Is the internal logic consistent?
Editing stage: 

Comments

pretty exquisite and you have been spot on with the rhymes i thought...perhaps you may want to get rid of And in first verse of Stanza 2

how about lithesome on wings when catching flies.to make it smmoother? Just a thought from an amateur..

Regards,

raj (sublime_ocean)

Sorry about delay in reply - thank you for stopping by to read and comment, this poem has been posted for the critique workshop, I suspect it will be having some changes including the ones you suggested. Thank you Raj I appreciate your visit, time, attention and suggestions.

Much love to you :)

Mand xxxx

author comment

until after the critique and critique of critique. Otherwise we will be commenting on different doggeral.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

Sorry, will put original back up.

author comment

and it snowed heavily
tis early spring
but your Spring is lovely
Mand

You've made me smile:). Lovely start to the day! Thank you my friend.

Love to you

Mand xxxxx

author comment

I will be attacking your poem this weekend, do I need to wear kid gloves or are we going to be down to bare knuckles lol.
Yep you have been given the bird, Sparrow that is and he is usually very kind and nice, Oh well,.
life's a bitch and I is sharpening my claws, I hereby promise to be a good bird ??? But I have been known to kill Robins especially cocky ones.
Have a lovely weekend down there in Yacky Da land,
I lived there once in Bargoed area and further up the valley, I loved it there, my brother still lives there.
We use to come to Cardiff to do Spiritual services but we have both retired now.
Must go have some poems to rewrite and some to tear ups, lol
Yours as always Ian xx

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

Your puns are seldom funny and the rambling contributes nothing, a waste of space.
This crap has always raised my ire in your otherwise good workshop participation.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

Be as ruthless as you like: Didn't like this poem much anyway! lol ( I've got grandchildren etc today so next week is fine.

Am I that cocky? If I am I need to be taken down a peg or two! Lol

Love to you

Mand xx

author comment

Just banter for now will talk later, Yours Ian xx

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

Spring Is Here ( Critique Workshop )
Submitted by mand on Thu, 2015-04-09 08:10

I will go through this with an iron fist sorry you know it is not me to be brutal but it is asked for in the workshop, lol
Mand, the theme is good and traditional, so if you are going to be traditional then the time sequence must follow the way of things.
Your first Stanza is not a herald of Spring so
I have trouble with this one, Snowdrops, daffs,(wild ones) then the beauty of the Primrose to be then later crowded out by the Bluebell at mid-May,
So I would expand your poem to include the process for others to know of your spring.
I cannot fault your form as it flows and is probably correct.
Try to avoid the repeat of words as the Cloaked and Rearing.
Your last three Stanzas are fine, but once again the sequence of events are blurred by a mix of months I wonder where Spring changes into Summer.
This would mean that you title has to incorporate the shift from one to the other.
“Home Thoughts From Abroad” is the only poem I can recite and as a memory from someone in a foreign place it is really great.
Hope I can be forgiven for my bad report,
Take care young lady, Yours Ian xx

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

Not offended! :) you make some valid points ( which I will deal with forthwith ).

I think your critique is quite good - I agree I was out of sink with regard the season but wasn't to sure what you meant with regard "Try to avoid the repeat of words as the Cloaked and Rearing". - perhaps it's me, but I can't find any repeat of those words, unless you meant something different and I haven't grasped it! ( which is always possible ).

Your critique has made me relook at the content of the poem ( which is definitely a good thing - I'm sure others would be thinking the same thing ). I don't think you where to harsh - just honest, but your honestly will change it for the better. ( I hope ).

Thank you Ian - Much appreciated

Love Mand xxx

author comment

This was part of the original poem I had and commented on:-
His partner chuckles, cloaked in the dawn
Cloaked with dawns mood
Happy the robin is rearing her spawn.
Rearing her brood
The repeated words came in with that stanza, did you change the poem after it was submitted??
Must look to see what Judy was on about in her comment something about being lazy lol..
Yours as always Ian xx

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

Thank's for getting back to me! Strange! The poem that's up is the original ( with the exception of suggested edits ) perhaps there was a cliche. That's a mystery.

Love Mand xxxx

author comment

All you have really done is question sequence – all of the described is about spring only isn’t it?

I think you could’ve done a better job here with your crit. You could’ve mentioned many things - least of all the rhythm, rhyme, how the descriptions affected you .... even some of what I add here below for Mand....
...

‘Spring is heralded by tubular bells
filling the woods with hyacinth smells
violet, white and lavender blue
caught in the droplets of morning dew’
- would ‘catching droplets of morning dew’ read more accurately? ... Oh ... if you actually mean the colours are caught in the drops (which I now read) then I'd drop the 'the' and make 'caught' 'captured'.... 'captured in droplets of morning dew'..

‘blushing colours in the flower beds’
- a wasted verse – you’ve already mentioned flowers per se, and it would be best to not actually use the word ‘colours’ – a descriptive to conjure a picture of colours is always more poetic... you already have ‘blushing’, which personifies ... so – ? ’faces blushing in nature's beds’

‘Fork tailed swifts nest in old wooden mills’- a tad long, but not a major problem
‘lithesome on the wing when catching flies’ – a tad long, I’d just make it ‘lithe on wing ...’
‘Yes, spring is here with it's wonderful hues’ – no apostrophe in ‘íts’..

the last stanza is disappointing – perhaps a better finish than ‘cover the land and seep in our dreams’... and although I like the previous verse re the yellows and greens and lashings of buttercups – I would totally change the last two (or add a couplet at the end) and find a really memorable finish...

all this imo remember

I love your nature writes Mand
love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

This workshop was set up for all to learn critique, as you appear to have taken over the part I was to comment on, and you have suggested that my comments were lazy, I am going to let you take over and I shall retire from this workshop, as whatever I now say on the rewrite, to my suggestions, will be of no use for me to learn anything.
The whole point of pairing me with Mand has lost the original good Idea of this workshop.
Yours Ian.T

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

I've said much worse things to you.

The point is you shouldn't even have read Judyanne's critique. Just given your own best by the terms of the workshop.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

I read all critique on all the poems I read, and leave critique or what is called comment.
I am aware of how far your critique goes some times, but at least I can understand it.
Oh come on, petulant boyo! well that's mild and unexpected from your keys lol.
I am cross at the way this workshop has changed from a learning place to where some have criticised,
and it seems that they wasted my time bothering to write.
I was waiting for Mand to come back and she did with a rewrite.
Then there would follow a time to adjust the poem, as there were a few other things to sort out, but it needed a rewrite first but that has all gone by the board now, Yours as always, Ian

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

I asked from the beginning for all sharks and minnows gather and we all knew some of the critiques would be pretty shark pool tough. Don't take it personally... at least in the workshop. Everyone is trying to help each other critique (or criticize... which is the same thing). No one is overly concerned with the poems as much as the critique. Please let everyone give it their best go and let it roll off your back.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

Thank you Judy, your critique is comprehensive, detailed, very helpful and much appreciated. I have made some changes, as suggested by you and Ian and am currently thinking of a different ending. Great critiquing! ( perhaps there's hope for this poem after all - if I can find a suitable ending that is ) lol

Love to you

Mand xxxx

author comment

Liked your use of tubular bells instead of wind chimes.... crap! now I see you're referring to flowers lol.In lat line of 1st stanza you might say refracted in the morning dew.Stanza 2 line 2. A bit unclear if you mean the morning or evening . Could be cured(if you mean evening)if you replaced "just after" with at start of or ,if dawn you, could say at end of night."happy the robin....this makes it sound like the robin's name is happy. Could just say the happy robin. I wouldn't even consider changing anything about stanza 4, you've described the swallow perfectly. Last stanza, to me "wonderful' stumbles a little. Hmmm...try, May is here with all it's hues.line 2 try changing "animal" to abundant.Last line try covers the land and fills our dreams.
I guess while I have my teeth expose i could suggest you shorten title to just "May". But your poem , as is, well describes the month so any adjustments for improvement should be fairly simple and minor........stan

Thank you for your honest and helpful critique, have made some changes in the revised version. ( still on going ). Hope it's getting better. ( if not I'm throwing it ) Lol

Love to you

Mand xxx

author comment

NEVER throw something out. Hide it away if you feel you have to. But save it. Then sometime later , be it weeks or years, go back to it. I could well become a classic with revisions and at worst you can use it to gauge your progress as a writer.........stan

Not only throw it out, but do so early and often.

If you like the concept, keep that, but never be afraid of burning/ deleting/ erasing/ shredding/ atomizing/ etc. bad writing. The sooner you remove it, the sooner it will quit infecting your standards.

A writer should always be the toughest critic of their work. When you stop critiquing your own work and listen to folks telling you how pretty you are, you stop being a good writer and peddle slop folks consume until they find the next bright and shiny thing in their life.

There's no future in that.

---------------------------------------------------------

Jonathan Moore

What have we missed? Brahms burned what he didn't like because he wanted to be remembered by what he thought was exceptional. What have we missed?
Artists made be and should be their toughest critics, but they are not always the best. What a writer thinks is crap another might see as a masterpiece.
Never throw anything out. I even keep my original drafts written on parchment with a nib pen and bottle.
These poems are part of who you are and how you change.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

Finding a good concept to write about is hard to do after a while. And any completed poem obviously has something about it which the writer deemed worth writing about. So keep it, if for no other reason keep it to reming yourself of a concept or subject you thought worth writing about. It might well serve as the impetus to revisit that concept later and maybe do it right.
I agree that one should be one's own worst critic. Many are the times I've edited even old stuff without benefit of somebody else's suggestions. Had i tossed said poems because they weren't as good as they could have been, I'd have not had them to edit lol. Now there ARE many times I've begun a poem, seen it was going badly then torn it from the notebook. But even then if the beginning or even the title is good i keep it. I don't know how many times I've come upon something I'd given up on a good while back then revised or completed it into a pretty good write,

But Just because this is My way doesn't mean it's the only way.........stan

Everyone has overloaded these comments with good stuff, so I'm going to give you a weird one.

Never use the word "smell" in a serious poem.
It is cacophonous, which means in phonoaesthetics the word is unpleasant to hear. I sometimes think phonoaesthetics is a tad extreme, but in the case of "smell" I agree. Not that there is anything wrong with the word at that spot... only that the word itself is ugly. If you are writing something you would have taken seriously we might want to think about how individual sounds change the poem.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

As with Judy I didn't know that there would be a gathering of critics.
This was supposed to be a workshop to learn about critique, now all I am left with is a space where the whole point of the workshop (TO LEARN CRITIQUE)
is lost in not only interference by Judy at first Now a cacophony of verbal diarrhoea, by yourself on just one word smell.
Let me tell you, this stinks of interference and holier than thou preaching.
Not sure which way Jess wanted me to jump but I strolled through a few words, and told him how things appeared at this point.
Enough of this crap it smells, I think that I will leave this workshop as it has now becoming a place to air big words.
Just take me off I have in this part become excess to requirements, Yours Ian.T

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

You give an added dimension to the critique - have made changes in the revised version that is still on going. All those who have critiqued have contributed something, all in different ways.

Love Mand xxxx

author comment

I only do this because I know your other poetry can be good and I respect you.

It made me want to vomit. So fucking cutesy, with no subtext or emotive connection stronger than "ooo, it's so pretty". I'm almost surprised you didn't use the other verboten words 'beauty' or 'beautiful'. No meaning, no subtext, as deep as Hallmark Card. Mona the Whale could have written this.
"fabulous views". Maybe it's a Hallmark Real Estate brochure.

Got nothing to suggest. This is one for the bin.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

Good example!

author comment

This is the way I used to critique when Neopoet first started.
Even crusty old bastards like me can learn.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

No hard feelings - I agree with it anyway - it's a horrible poem! lol

Love to you

Mand xxx

author comment

Reading your critique just give me an idea for another poem. ;)

Alid

Judyanne really called you out.
Get real. You know how.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

As Judy Broke into the critique for this workshop that I was asked to do.
I was waiting for Mand to reply then carry on with sorting out things.
It really pissed me off that the comments to me were nothing to do with the workshop, then to go and preach to me about how good the comments should have been.
We might just as well cancel the workshop, and just enlist a high priest/ess to show us all how to do things, we will all learn from their expert volumes of what I term as self praise drivel, where they have to down all others around..
Then again maybe it doesn't matter about the ones that cannot critique well.
This was supposed to be a workshop..
Not good for the future of Neopoet, where critique is not learned or taught but expressed by the few.
Yours Ian.T

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

Who critiqued who was re-arranged at the last minute.
I have seldom seen you so angry (normally I cause it).
Just get over it. It was a last minute change and it is your fault for not keeping up with the workshop thread.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

That we were to critique the critiques, and were looking for sharks to do so...

No need for you to leave Ian ... I am
after all your insults I don't want to stay here
.

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

I have seldom seen such silly abusive behaviour except when I do it. Neither of you leave, that would be the worst thing you could do. Shake hands or give each other a smack in the head and continue. There is no reason to leave, it would only leave a bad smell that might linger elsewhere.
You copped it hard from both Judyanne and me but I don't see you attacking me, Ian.
If you can't make some sort of apology to each other just get over it and continue to the other critiques. Others are depending on you.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

I have not been abusive. I critiqued Ian' critique with a shark's tooth, as Wes requested.
I told Ian that I thought he'd concentrated totally on one concept --the sequence -- only.... I then suggested and gave examples of what he could've done further.

I felt that was a fair critique of a critique

For it I am accused of 'breaking into his critique', then insulted and called a priestess who drivels self-praise who downs others. I don't need it

And I don't think I have anything to apologize for.
.

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Ian had a spaz attack, he has never had one like it, please forgive him.

I'm the first to tell him he was wrong and he needs to make amends.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

I am sorry to see you so angry. Please don't be. None of you (Ian or Judy) did anything wrong. I think the whole thing is a mere misunderstanding. Look into all the submitted poems. After being critiqued by the other pair (as Wesley assigned) EVERYONE else came to critique the CRITIQUE. This is how the workshop is planned and designed from the very beginning. Critiquing your critique is nothing personal. As I said, maybe you didn't get the directions right?
Have you read Stan's critique to my critique on Johnathan's piece, you'd have had already left LOL. But, I will stay anyway. :)

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
www.instgram.com/rularules1

I am sorry, the main reaction was about the lazy bit, then Wes put the icing on the cake by coming out with very long words, to talk about Smell and he wrote five words about Nixon going to china on one comment.
You are much better at critique than many, and as you understand the forms better than most, this workshop needs you expertise, I can learn sometime else if I ever get my head around Critique,
Yours as always, Ian

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

I'm sorry you took offense at the word 'lazy'
It wasn't referring to you per se. I was meaning simply 'lazy critique' ... it covered little....

I was upset at being called what you wrote... I have never pretended to be an expert at anything regarding literature, and it makes me wonder if people have the wrong opinion of me

We both need this workshop.... what were we upset about again???
love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Thanks, I still loves yu, I will be entering my second childhood soon so watch out for more crankiness, lol
Yours as always Ian xxx

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

subtle and concise. Also, a tad humorous, though I have a weird sense of humor.
And the information concerning "smell" is legitimate. It is considered by the powers that be as "cacophonous". An unattractive word.
As for lazy, I think you know I produce the longest comments on site. Only Judyanne and the Elf can compete.
Anyway, I'm glad things have settled. You're both too valuable to lose.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

Please read Rula's reply. I fear that we have strayed from the guidelines of the workshop and that caused a misunderstanding. I thanked Ian for apologizing and I hoped that this misunderstanding ends here. We need to learn. Remember when you offer a critique on a poem, you are talking about the poem, not the poet. Same goes for offering a critique on a critique, make sure you are talking about the critique and not about the critique giver. I encourage everyone to check on the guidelines or ask Wes, Rula or me if they are not certain on something regarding about the workshop.

Alid

Ian, you did point out which parts of the poem which you have troubled with and where there's a need for clarity so the poet can rectify it. That's a direction for improvement. However you can stil expand your critiques, maybe by suggesting a new title if there's a need. Small things like punctuations, alternatives which can help to strengthen the clarity of the poem where it seems blur. That's what I see based on my limited knowledge, Ian. See, I'm not good at it either.

Alid

My first critique of Mand's poem was acted upon I was waiting for the reply, the reply came as a rewrite.
Mand changed the title to May and wrote the new poem in it's present sequence, I will comment on the new write when time permits.
Now both poems are on show with the original critique, I still have to critique the new write more but have been away from the site more the last week, I shall complete my Critique this weekend,
Thank you, Yours, Ian..

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

Firstly, I am a fan of structured poetry and I am a fan of rhyme, so I like to see folks pushing themselves in the medium.

While you have some excellent flow and imagery, there is more than once instance of sacrificing flow to hit a rhyme and when you do that, you cause your entire piece to stumble. It’s like a snag in a sweater. No matter the fit, no matter the pattern, the focus is the imperfection.

Along with this, you have a wandering meter. This, in and of itself, is not a bad thing, but it should be intentional, especially in structured poetry. Let me show you what I mean by numbering the syllables in your lines:

10 Spring is heralded by tubular bells
09 filling the woods with hyacinth smells
09 violet, white and lavender blue
09 caught in the droplets of morning dew.

10 and the cuckoo calls in the half moon light
09 in the silver grey just after night
09 his partner chuckles cloaked in the dawn
10 happy the robin is rearing her spawn.

As I said, a wandering meter is not necessarily bad, as long as you are not sacrificing flow, but we had a couple of other issues, most notably, for me, is the word order in line 8. I am not certain the reason for it and it makes me pause to wonder at it each time.

Also, and this may just be me, I understand what you mean by “tubular” but it is a word that has been subverted in American English to connect it to the surfer culture. Luckily, there are options.

I’m going to recast your first two stanzas to illustrate what I mean, I fully realize I am taking great liberties here for illustrative purposes. This is not represented as better, but rather as examples of the critique. You, as the poet, should take what I say and decide what works, what doesn't, and what, if anything, provides you with additional reflection.

Each Spring is heralded by fragrant bells [replace “tubular”]
Layering the woods with hyacinth smells; [I felt layering gave a richer texture to the image]
sweet violet, white and breathtaking blue [Violet and Lavender are the same thing]
Suspended in the glow of morning dew. [Suspended seems like a better fit to me.]

As the cuckoo calls in the half moon light, [ Replace “and” with “as” for for definitive action]
in those soft moments beckoning the night, [restructured to smooth image]
his mate’s tender call is cloaked with the dawn [reconciled dusk and dawn imagery]
and the robin delights, preening her spawn. [addressed word order and imagery]

Again, it is up to you to review and discard everything you do not believe helps you improve your piece. If that is everything, no worries because critique is not about imposing change, it’s about empowering reflection and growth.

---------------------------------------------------------

Jonathan Moore

I really appreciated your critique and in depth review. Have made the final version ( good or bad ) according to yours and others suggestions. Sorry about the late reply.

Love to you

Mand xxx

author comment

Subtle difference, but demonstrable (my wife has over one hundred roses... I know from colour).

Thank you for making nice kids. We don't need old style animosity.
Pugilist:
"critique is not about imposing change, it’s about empowering reflection and growth."

Wonderfully phrased. I may (with your permission) borrow it from time to time.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

I have the same complaint about this as with a number other and Pugilist may have mentioned it a time or two. It's of course entirely up to the poet, but the lack of punctuation is distracting. At least to us accustomed to reading with it as our guide.
You have moments when you follow a period with a lower case letter. Sometimes no period at all.
I realize it is something of a fad (like capitalizing each line). Stan defends it eloquently.
I don't like it.
Otherwise, I think the poem quite lovely and I hope you are happy with any changes you were able to make because of the workshop.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

I hope it's better now! Thanks for your time and attention. Hope to see you all in a couple of weeks, unless I have the good fortune of being able to log in while I'm in Portsmouth!

Love to you

Mand xxx

author comment

for example, Judy might think a poem doesn't need them but those of us who are used to them thinks diferently.

Alid

I have now read the revised poem. Is it best if a poem has some kind of context which ties it to the reader? Yes. Is it best if perfect meter is maintained? Yes. These are things which we all aspire to and things which can transform a poem from OK to Really good. But none of us are so misguided as to expect superior poetry from either others or ourselves every time. To expect perfection from ourselves and decide nothing short of perfection is worth writing is a direct path to writer's block. "Writers write"...ain't just a phrase, it's the truth. Your revised poem is WAY better than the original. So focus on the improvement as well as the practice gained by this writing as well as any future ones. WRITE...do enough of it and that "perfect" poem will come one day and likely you won't even know how good it is until others tell you.......stan

for your wise words and encouragement! The perfect poem! Wow if only!

Love to you and Susan

Mand xxxx

author comment

Honestly I liked the original far more than the revisions.

Have a great time out at Portsmouth...may be there you will be inspired to write even more..

raj (sublime_ocean)

Guess I'll keep them all up there. He he Sometimes I wonder if it all comes down to taste and opinion. :)

I suspect my dad ( 90 this year ) will have a list of jobs for me to do, as long as your arm. I'm looking forward to seeing them, but worried about leaving my husband behind - he forgets to switch the oven off and he has dietary requirements that need to be monitored. ( he's diabetic ). My daughter say's she'll keep an eye on him, so that's a comfort!

Thanks Raj for reading, commenting and for your honest opinion, always appreciated. :)

Love to you

Mand xxxx

author comment

you got it right. It IS a matter of taste and opinion.

Alid

Well..Dads will be dads and husbands always look out for some freedom. But wives are smart and make sure that they leave back some one to watch over them while they are away. I am sure your daughter will fulfill that role and make sure her dad follows the dietary regime while you are away. so dont worry too much and enjoy your time out there in Portsmouth...great to know you dad would soon be in his nineties....best wishes for the best of health and cheers for all in your family.

By the way did you see that you are the winner of April Contest?...feel happy for your posting your poem in time..

raj (sublime_ocean)

I had a great time - did a lot of decorating ( painting ). Husband was fit and healthy when I got back.

Keep safe Raj. :)). Love to you and yours

Mand xxx

( thanks for the congrats - it was a wonderful surprise to come home to - well chuffed )

author comment

Say something of value.
Beauty is not a value

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

I agree - but I'm done working on this one :) - I'm moving on. Wrote it years ago, consigned it to the dust mites in the store cupboard. ( even they avoided it ). Dug it out for the critique work shop in the hopes it could be improved - no goer, can't get past the brick wall. Guess were it's going?

Glad you say it as it is though.

Thanks Jess, for your critique and honesty :)

Love Mand xxx

author comment

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and this beholder, for one, enjoys a well written nature poem.... this, imo, is of the pastoral genre - a well established and popular theme....

And beauty is not a value ??? Then why did Plato spend so much time talking about aesthetics.. and what of his obvious acceptance of beauty as a Form.... and did not Socrates write 'beauty, the object of every love's yearning' ??.?

Great edits Mand.... Funnily, though, even though the final edit is great, I think that you, inadvertently lost a lot of good stuff with the edits... not to be helped, as you couldn't have it all lol

Love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

He has been superseded though.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

Nice of you to take the time to revisit. This one's like trashing a dead horse! Lol

Thanks again :)

Love Mand xxxxx

author comment

This talk reminds me of the tree falling in the forest, when no one is there does it still make a noise or whatever..
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder,
if you don't see it is it still there???
Just me, here in the UK we have areas of what some say are beautiful, some of them to me are a good place to build houses for those that haven't a home.
Oh well it is Sunday, Take care all of you, can't tell how you are because I can't see you lol..
Yours Ian.

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

It's there. :)

Love to you and yours Ian :)

Keep safe xxx

Love Mand

author comment

Holey Moley it took some getting to the bottom of the page.
My comment is simple. I thoroughly enjoyed reading all the revisions and take my hat off to you, for the way you developed the poem.
For what it's worth, I really like it. It speaks of spring and promises of summer to come. It sums up where I live, I see every single thing you mention, every day (well every day in May :-) ) on our small farm.
Poems don't have to be over complicated, sometimes its good to just paint a picture. Jx

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Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

Soo good of you to come by to read and make a comment! The shell of this poem was a bit bland
( wrote it a very long time ago - when I just started writing ). As I suspected it was quite a challenge to bring it up to anywhere near par. All I can say is hat's off to everyone who cajoled, suggested and nudged to made it, at least, presentable! Lol

Thank you again Jane for your words of encouragement. Much appreciated.

Love Mand xxx

author comment

I can be better than this and you deserve better. Sorry.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

No worries - all's well that ends well - I learned a lot. ( and of course the poem turned out better for all the input ) hopefully. :)

Kind of you to drop in

Love to you

Mand xxx

author comment
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