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Occam's Chainsaw

I didn't kill Buddha when I met him on the road
or my Mum or Dad or Jesus
I didn't poison Socrates or give Nietzsche what was owed
or Darwin, Freud or Marx

Not knowing then the terms
cognitive dissonance or Occam's Razor
Sartre, Newton, Sagan and Jung
became disturbing eye-glazers

It took years and reading in profusion
to sort these thoughts and find a way
through paradoxical mazes of truth
and avoid death by confusion

There is a way.

If it has the ring of truth
there is probably something there
if it feels more like remembering
you're near the voids returning stare

Just keep it simple, stupid,
kiss, kiss, sweety, kiss kiss
take what one needs and leave the rest
take nothing at all on faith
apply the evidence test

And replace Mr. Occam's implement
with a chainsaw.

Review Request (Intensity): 
I want the raw truth, feel free to knock me on my back
Review Request (Direction): 
What did you think of the rhythm or pattern or pacing?
Last few words: 
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts.” Bertrand Russell. and http://shawnpowrie.com/leadership/the-genius-of-and/
Editing stage: 

Comments

moved

I suspect this piece may be in process for a while but one thing I'm sure of- it's a great big mean MF of a chainsaw.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Think the first stanza is great, pulled me right in.
Extremely sage advice - stating simple and simply (but cleverly) expressed.
Gee, I like your version too - well done, although I rather like' kiss, kiss, sweety, kiss kiss' It sort of cocks a snook at all the pretentious twits, whilst reinforcing the KISS principle.
Do you know why else I liked it?
I can understand it. I haven't had to scratch my head, drink several gallons of red wine, hold it upside down or any other knowledge inducing trick.
That probably means I've missed the point completely - big grin.
Jx

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Just where I wanted to go.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

somehow I never stumbled on Occam after all these years, so had some fun "on the google" (as us seniors say). I am enjoying reading several times, but I can't seem to fit the paradoxes together.
This, to me, is a very complete and intriguing poem:

Occam's Chainsaw

It took years and reading in profusion
through paradoxical mazes of truth
to avoid death by confusion;

There is a way.

If it has the ring of truth
there is probably something there
if it feels more like remembering
you're near the voids returning stare.

Just keep it simple, stupid,
kiss, kiss, sweety, kiss kiss
take what one needs and leave the rest
take nothing at all on faith
apply the evidence test

And replace Mr. Occam's razor
with a chainsaw.

I just can't connect all those philosophers, scientists, and avatars and your parents and the idea,
a very cool one, of living a life with the KISS principle. And am grateful you didn't kill parents and Jesus on the road..(what road? road of life?)
well, anyway, my best and most honest take.

Eumolpus
I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing
than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance
ee cummings

is exactly that. Connecting and reconciling all the conflicting/paradoxical ideas we encounter without having to trash whole concepts and systems that still contain valuable truths. This has been a major concern for me and cognitive dissonance a life issue.

I've read, on average, 3 books a week for fifty years, cycling between classics, poetry, SF/fantasy and a plethora of genres of non-fiction.

So you see I simply had to come up with a way to keep the most valuable stuff and trash the rest. The extreme pain of relinquishing indoctrinated or deeply held beliefs is the reason for the chainsaw symbol.

And I know you were just yanking my chain about the road. Any fool could see I was referring to Pittwater Road, Dee Why, NSW, my favourite surfing spot.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

thank you.

I think this might be a work in progress for a while.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

I love it.
It cleaves the Gordian Knot!

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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and I've got to say, perfectly apt response.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

perhaps more about belief than opinion and definitely not about faith, except for being anti-faith.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

to use the term 'cognitive dissonance' in a prosodically pleasing manner, yet you can see it is crucial to the piece.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Sorry - that was awful, let's hope the recording goes down better:

https://soundcloud.com/user528181418/occams-chainsaw

PS Will start using the NP Soundcloud account when I can (username dude..!)

Great piece BTW - wonder what you'd make of Hume's fork? A bit of empirical prodding perhaps..

Chris Hall - Tasmania

Grossbooted draymen rolled barrels dullthudding out of Prince's stores and bumped them up on the brewery float. On the brewery float bumped dullthudding barrels rolled by grossbooted draymen out of Prince's stores.

And thank you.
It is really fucking weird, so different to how I hear it in my head, not really better or worse, a different poem.
Your reading sounds more intelligent and thoughtful, mine more raucous and provocative.
It's so cool.
Thanks again.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Same picture. More plummy pommie, but that's the way it sounded in my head! I got lost in Zeno, the presocratics (if that's even a thing) and tried to get my head round Marx, Engels (I preferred him - the Condition of the working class in England, I think it was, wrote it in Manchester) you get neck deep in Marx, and you're reading about tonnage ratio's of corn and you think, at some point, when everyone's at the pub, fuck this for a game of soldiers! So I gave up philosophers for a while, then I had a crack at Humanism and Existentialism, can you imagine what that marriage was like, Sartre and de Beauvoir? Fuck me. Joke, from one of my links:

"How many existentialists does it take to change a light bulb?
Two. One to change the light-bulb and one to observe how the light bulb symbolises an incandescent beacon of subjectivity in a netherworld of Cosmic Nothingness".

Oh what fun they would have had. ;)

Chris Hall - Tasmania

Grossbooted draymen rolled barrels dullthudding out of Prince's stores and bumped them up on the brewery float. On the brewery float bumped dullthudding barrels rolled by grossbooted draymen out of Prince's stores.

All thinking people know Engels was better.
(then minus 10 points for Your instead of You're)

Yeah, pre-Socratics were a thing but we don't like to talk about it.

Had a threesome once with de Beauvoir and Sartre, they were both more interested in my cheeky young flesh than talking, it was disappointing.

How many Maoists does it take to change a light globe?
Just one, as a diversion, whilst two billion others bring down capitalism.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

But the presocratics, the argument being they only dealt in metaphysics, and lacked epistemology - that old chestnut? I'm not sure that argument holds water, I think it's just a convenient category for philosophy students! That, we'll have to battle over another time, being summoned. Nice threesome btw! So that would be..."the third sex" then..? (grins)

Cheers.

Chris.

Chris Hall - Tasmania

Grossbooted draymen rolled barrels dullthudding out of Prince's stores and bumped them up on the brewery float. On the brewery float bumped dullthudding barrels rolled by grossbooted draymen out of Prince's stores.

my epistemological, metaphysical, ontological, philosophical and possibly cosmological loins in anticipation!

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Starting there, with the ontological "proof" of God's existence - there's a good one for you to refute in a poem..;) - you could be there all night though. Yes, they had magic shrooms back then, I'm sure.

Chris Hall - Tasmania

Grossbooted draymen rolled barrels dullthudding out of Prince's stores and bumped them up on the brewery float. On the brewery float bumped dullthudding barrels rolled by grossbooted draymen out of Prince's stores.

When all the negatives have been discarded as being of no use to man or his total being,
Then I hope there is even just one positive left for us to live by...
A great write but no need to kill so many, (Smiles and wipes his blooded knife on a new bodies cloths..)
Take care and know we can see and love you as you are, Yours Ian..

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Yo, Elfie!

You da man! The chainsaw massacre is actually a slow death into oblivion, eh?

Have I read this before ? I feel like I've read it before please put me right if I'm wrong.

Will be back tomorrow to see your answer and I'll critique then I'm getting tired.

Cheers J

("Always and Forever") - (Never lose a holy curiosity.-Albert Einstein)

Maybe you read my essay "Taking Occam's Chainsaw to Religion" on Facebook. I did it for Philosophy 105 'Values and Beliefs' at... wait for it... Australian Catholic University, they never saw me coming.
It was marked by a Jesuit priest and on the cover page he had scrawled F (crossed out), Credit (crossed out), and finally "oh buggerit, High Distinction, you argued and researched well and importunately".

teehee, the subversive ratbag weirdelf strikes again.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

I knew I'd read something with Occams in the title. It was a rather long read wasn't it. God that was so long ago. And haha they would not have seen you coming but I bet they noticed when you got there lol

Cheers for clearing that up.

I'll return with less tired eyes in the morning, worked on poems all day and I am rooted.

Sincerely J x

("Always and Forever") - (Never lose a holy curiosity.-Albert Einstein)

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