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Jesus, Brighter Than All

Brighter than all the stars in the sky
Shining together to form galaxies
Brighter than anything on this earth
Brighter than anything I've seen
Shining to illuminate ways for me
Revealing the wonders within them
Your power works to glorify Jesus
Showing the way and helping to follow
The wonder and glory that I have in you

By: Leona Chaput

Editing stage: 

Comments

Rich piece about our blessed Lord gives cadence.
Put a smile on my face I had to read this three times
Brighter stands out to me although its a short poem I stands out very nicely.
The wonders,, glory & helping.
Key word phrases in this magnificent piece I applaud your effort this should be published to.

Mario Vitale

are why you have no credibility.

cheers,
Jess
Everything changes bar one. Neopoet's 'Prime Directive'-
"Critique don't comment".
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

Sorry, Laura, but it is true.

If that dead jewish political activist was so great why are Christians so insecure they have to keep yelling his praise, in the process insulting everyone else of different beliefs?

cheers,
Jess
Everything changes bar one. Neopoet's 'Prime Directive'-
"Critique don't comment".
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

goes for you Jess. You both are dead wrong in expressing such opinions in such a derogatory manner on a site that professes to be a friendly. I write about a serial killer that takes the law into his own hands and cooks and eats the people he kills. There are those who do not like Killer and have said so, but I have never experienced such vitriolic comments as I have seen here today. Must be off your meds today, huh? ~ Geezer.
.

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I'm not buying it! I would have if you had stopped at "This is a trite, cliched piece with little poetic value."
But, you immediately launched into a religious/political diatribe against Jewish political activists.
You directly violated the tenet of this site, not once, but a number of times by commenting on her religion and then tried to justify it by saying you have the right to offend her because she already offended you. "She started it?" What? Are we two years old now? What happened to the part of the community guidelines that say: "Neopoet will not tolerate comments regarding a member's race, sex, sexual preference, RELIGION, disability or any type of personal, derogatory comment aimed at a member. Personal attacks will be dealt with harshly" etc... I think you know where it says that? ~ Gee.
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of your "poems" on this site, and whereas I'm really glad you have your invisible friend to praise endlessly we have seen no comments by you about any other poets or poems. Do you have any other dimension?
My sister died of breast cancer denying treatment, and left it in the hands of Jesus. A win win.
If she died, she would be with Jesus. If not, Jesus allowed her to live. I hope your not that sick if something like this happens to you.
BTW, don't be concerned about my "soul" ..it's laughing at you all the way the bank.

Eumolpus
I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing
than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance
ee cummings

at the venom spewed and the anger expressed. While I have little regard for organized religion, I do not feel that it is appropriate to beat the tar out of anyone who does or persons that support those who do. This is a poetry site, where those that write poetry are supposed to be able to write about things that matter to them. I have seen many works here that have been far worse and yet have not provoked the reaction that I have seen here. Whatever happened to the tenet on which this site was founded? The right to good, honest critique? As for this person not commenting or critiquing, there are some that post here and hardly ever comment or give any advice on how to improve a work. Three poems, and maybe being shy to critique or comment for fear of saying the wrong thing! I don't have to guess that there will be no more "poems" posted here on Neo. nice work people. At least you chased them away without having to "suffer" the sight of anymore such trite foolishness. ~ Geezer.
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At the immediate responses to this poem. Neopoet is supposed to be a workshop and a place to express oneself free of judgment. While this poem could stand some writing critique, the attack on its authors character and subject matter is completely unwarranted and disgraceful. This is the very reason we lose potentially good poets, struggle to receptionist members and members are wary to comment. What happened to this being a learning environment or just allowing a poet to use their words as a catharsis? I am truly disappointed.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

!!!!!

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You will notice that the poet, and other similar, post poems but never contribute to others. Theirs is the bubble shared by jahidist fundamentalists, or ultra orthodox jews. I can read and enjoy Hopkins,because he was creating art in his magnificent sense of music and words play. There is nothing that resembles poetry in this submission, and after other submissions without any involvement in the poems of others, I just had to let it out- Basta! Perhaps as it was the anniversary of my sister's death I was particularity upset at this evangelical propaganda.
10 to 1 odds the writer supports Trump, our great example of Christian humility and charity, as do the majority of his base. There are many other outlets for the poet to post her poems...

Lastly, I'm sure all would condemn misogynist poetry, like a lot of "gangsta rap" or poems in praise of Hitler. The above poem does no real harm, but to me, it also does no real good except make the poet feel better that they have shown the world they believe their glory train.
That said, I agree to just pass over these types of poems in the future, unless they show a small effort at understanding the craft. Apologies to have upset other true poets.

Eumolpus
I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing
than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance
ee cummings

We all hold our personal feelings on religion...it is just how you said...it is the writer's belief...we don't have to agree but we do not need to attack her for believing in something. Perhaps if this person needs help in writing, we should focus on how to assist with that. What would make this a good poem? All feelings on the topic aside, what would help her become a good writer? That is the purpose of Neopoet. Not to shame or belittle.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

this particular poet has only posted three poems without commenting or critiquing. It very well may be that she has just begun in her poetry and doesn't feel that she knows enough to do so. I am sorry for your loss, and the blame you put on Christianity. I respect your right to have an opinion and hope that there are none who will take you to task for your beliefs. I am glad that you will refrain from commenting on these types of poetry from now on. ~ Geezer.
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I simply can't abide spiritual rape, which is evangelism and we mostly accept because we are conditioned to it.
Anyone who thinks their poetry has validity simply because of its message is dead wrong.
You know this.

cheers,
Jess
Everything changes bar one. Neopoet's 'Prime Directive'-
"Critique don't comment".
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

with disagreement on religious values as an afterthought.
Atheists virtually never proselytise and so sometimes we react in the face of consistent proselytising, especially when it is crap poetry.

Forgive us if we, or members of non-evangelical religions, sometimes react but remember
"aaawww Muuuum, they started it!"
[grins]

cheers,
Jess
Everything changes bar one. Neopoet's 'Prime Directive'-
"Critique don't comment".
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

You sat atheists never proselytize yet here you are condemning somebody's religion simple because it isn't your own...tsk,tsk.....

I'm just saying it's bullshit.
And I have every right to.

cheers,
Jess
Everything changes bar one. Neopoet's 'Prime Directive'-
"Critique don't comment".
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

cheers,
Jess
Everything changes bar one. Neopoet's 'Prime Directive'-
"Critique don't comment".
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

cheers,
Jess
Everything changes bar one. Neopoet's 'Prime Directive'-
"Critique don't comment".
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

I just thought I'd leave a thought or two here,
first of all, we have no censorship on poetry,
if your thing is Jesus, it's fine.
There were no critique options chosen so the
poem is fair game for what appears to me to be
a needed valuable critique. If the poem is about
religion, religion is opened up for discussion. Talking
about the poem is not attacking the poet, although it
did seem over the top grinding it in.

Give the lady a chance to respond please !!!

There is no censorship in poetry and we all agree the poem could use meaningful critique which is what neopoet is about. I think what upset some of us is the way it was done which seemed to cross lines of blatent abuse rather than constructive criticism to better the piece and poet writing.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

but I have been struggling to find the words and my computer has suddenly gone slow on me over the past few days as well.

Here it goes.

In terms of the community guidelines, in my opinion as Advocate, I do think Jess and Mark were nearly towing the line between commenting on the poem and commenting on the poet. Their opinions and generalizations about Christianity could be seen as generalizations about Christians, which would therefore include the poet.

Nonetheless, people are allowed to have strong, visercal reactions to the content of poetry. Poetry should move us, but sometimes it moves us in a negative way. I don't think that's the worst scenario. These discussions are important. Empathy is important and realizing that our words (BOTH as the commenters and the poets) can effect people so extremely is a necessary wake-up call to be resounded periodically as we become complacent and comfortable in our ways.

The poet Laura has not made a single comment or interacted on the site in any way since joining expect to post poems. She has not even replied to the feedback she has been given on her earlier poems. So I am not sure what she'll make of this thread if she does see it.

I gave her constructive critique on her first poem two months ago and radio silence there. The signature at the end of her poems "By Leona" confused both me on that poem and Jane on her second poem, which Jane took as her posting poetry written by someone else. I guessed Laura or Leona was a pen name of the same person, but I can't be sure. Still silence on her end.

She has marked her poems as rough drafts and has marked different review or intensity requests depending on the poem. This poem just says "Rough Draft" and nothing more. If she considers it a rough draft and would like to participate in this workshop in the future, I hope she will look past the discussion about religion and see the merit in the critiques of the poetry, which I would like to highlight below:

From Mark: "There is nothing that resembles poetry in this submission"

Mark is suggesting here that Laura needs to work on her literary devices and poetic value. Its similar to what I said on her first poem. It all looks the same, like something mimicked out of the Bible. Religious poetry can be moving, poetic, and beautiful even for non-religious readers if the prosody and imagery are there. Currently the only literary device seems to be the repetition/parallelism of "brighter than".

Jess mentioned that the poem is cliche.

Mario hinted that the word choice of Brighter was powerful. It can be, but work could be done to this poem to elevate the idea of brightness, while also added poetic value that Mark suggested and eliminating cliches that Jess suggested. Imagery, word choices, literary devices, and sensory details of light and warmth that go beyond the basics of stars would be perfect. Space and starlight are so infinite and mindbogglingly fascinating, but Laura stops at "brighter than all the stars", which has certainly been said before.

Poets are the masters of words, let's hope Laura will take these words and use the dictionary and thesaurus and other tools at our disposal and challenge herself to push the words and imagery further, to really do her faith a service in the form of poetry. I have a whole blog post about those tools if Laura needs them: https://www.neopoet.com/swamp-witch/blog/tue-2018-01-02-2001

I hope this comment will put an end to this discussion and help it end on a positive note for all of us.

Some ideas and inspiration for Laura to use if she chooses are below.

Synonyms for bright: shining, twinkling, glimmering, glowing, light, luminous, sunny, sparkly, radiant, opalescent, sparkling, promising, aglow, glinting, lustrous, gleaming, aglitter, iridescent, lucent, lambent, beaming

What is it like in Heaven? from BibleStudyTools.com: https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-study/topical-studies/what-is-heav...

"Everyone wants to know about heaven and everyone wants to go there... even in this skeptical age there is something deep inside the human heart that cries out, "There's got to be something more. Something more than the pain and suffering of this life. Something more than 70 or 80 years on planet earth. Something more than being born, living, dying, and then being buried in the ground."

I really like this quote. It sums up the power and appeal of religion to alleviate negative feelings about one of the ultimate fears of humankind: death. The whole point of the glory and wonder of Jesus is that he is the embodiment of a promise that there is something better. I think Laura's poetry should reflect that instead of just haphazardly mentioning that there is glory and wonder in Jesus.

Words to describe light (some different from bright above, and featuring definitions, which helps with fine tuning the imagery)

1. Aureate: brilliantly golden; also, grandiloquent
2. Blinding: so bright as to obscure vision
3. Coruscating: flashing, or sparkling; also, brilliant or showy
4. Crepuscular: dim, or resembling twilight; also, said of animals active during twilight
5. Dappled: marked by spotted or patchy light; also, marks of this kind on a surface
6. Fluorescent: giving off light produced by another source of illumination
7. Glancing: intermittently flashing or gleaming
8. Gleaming: shining, radiant
9. Glimmering: faintly or unsteadily shining
10. Glinting: see gleaming; also, appearing briefly, or glancing briefly
11. Glistening: see lustrous
12. Glistering: see glittering
13. Glittering: flashing or sparkling; also brilliantly and/or superficially attractive or appealing
14. Glossy: bright on the surface; also, artificially opulent or sophisticated
15. Illuminating: bright or shining; also, highlighted or made clear
16. Incandescent: warm, glowing
17. Iridescent: rainbow colored
18. Lucent: bright, clear, or shining
19. Lucid: see lucent; also, easy to understand
20. Lucifugal: shunning light, as in the case of nocturnal animals
21. Lucifugous: see lucifugal
22. Luminescent: shining by chemical or physiological means
23. Luminous: full of light
24. Lustrous: smooth, evenly lit; also, brilliant or eminent
25. Opaque: blocking light; also, obtuse, or difficult to understand
26. Opalescent: see iridescent
27. Penumbral: partially shaded
28. Phosphorescent: continuing to glow after removal of a light source
29. Prismatic: brilliant, or resembling colors formed by passing light through a prism
30. Radiant: glowing, or radiating light
31. Resplendent: brilliant or glowing
32. Scintillating: sparking, or sparkling; also, brilliant, as said of personality
33. Shimmering: soft or wavering light or reflection
34. Spangling: see glittering
35. Spectral: made by a range of colors of the spectrum; also, ghostly
36. Translucent: diffused, or transparent

Here are 21 Bible verses about light: https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/bible-verses-about-light/

They all basically say the same thing, and Laura's poem adds nothing that these verses didn't already say just as plainly as she did. What could she add? What experiences and revelations and hopes in her life add something unique to the image of light? This may be the hardest part to come to terms with in a poem. It requires self-reflection and critical thinking. But it's possible. It could come in the form of prayer or daily devotions even. Why does light imagery call to you, Laura? How does God's light make you feel? What does God's light look like in your eyes? What does it look like when it shines into your heart or on a field of wildflowers? Does it shine in places of pain, hurt, suffering, poverty, sickness? Or only in the church sanctuary? Ask yourself these questions and put the answers into your poetry and your poetry will be greatly elevated.

Best of luck.

Everyone take care,
Kelsey

Advocates Coordinator

Critique, don't comment. Neopoet is a workshop and is designed to share your poetry, receive and make critique of the work posted, and most importantly, for you to evolve as a poet.

www.kelsey-burroughs.weebly.com

$12.75 would be closer, or $127,500 if your words were priced anywhere near their value.

Total respect for everything you do, Kelsey, but do you think some member overreaction to a comment on a non-participating member was worth all this?

cheers,
Jess
Everything changes bar one. Neopoet's 'Prime Directive'-
"Critique don't comment".
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

in case Laura does come around. Especially if she decides she does want to work on her craft. I wanted to leave her with some concrete and practical feedback and to hopefully show her that Neopoet is not all religious bickering.

I was put off by the discussion even though I know and respect all the people who posted. So how do you think the poet, who is a new and inexperienced member, who is obviously very religious, might react if she does react? That was my thinking.

Kelsey

Advocates Coordinator

Critique, don't comment. Neopoet is a workshop and is designed to share your poetry, receive and make critique of the work posted, and most importantly, for you to evolve as a poet.

www.kelsey-burroughs.weebly.com

And I read your words very respectfully. Yes it was my first instinctive response to a 3rd posting with no feedback. and I was thinking about my sister who like many see Jesus in every detail of life, like Sally Fields on SNL if you know that skit. Through her I have met many such deeply committed Christians and I see no difference between them and fundamental Moslems or Orthodox Jews. I am an atheist, I have published poems in the American Atheist Magazine, and consider myself very spiritual. (Krishnamurti-ish if you know this amazingly honest sage. You don't follow him- he makes you follow yourself...)
Many of my peers see religion no longer as a positive force in human development and surely it was the cause of war, slavery, torture and degradation of women for thousands of years. So I actually do find religious dogma somewhat offensive whether in the form of a poem or country western song. It just most often perpetuates this exclusion of compassion for anyone who does not agree with their jealous gods- everyone else is evil, satan worshippers, infidels, or the non-chosen. I have family members that believe I am, most unfortunately, going to hell, "down there",
as I have not embraced Christ. I just can't console them that it's ok, hell might be "up there" for all we know!

There have been many voices I listen agree with, from Sponza to Hume to Satre and so many others. Hume is my favorite (18th Cent) and I love this one, as it explains my position. "I am sure there is absolutely no god, and Mary is its mother" I think that's what the poem I just posted is all about (Adam's Laughter) It's all about the imagination. God IS the imagination. You are free from dogma- be a poet! Thank you William Blake! I happen to like the Bible because of its symbolic value and often visionary imagination. The flaming bush that does not consume..so cool!

I assume you know the work of Manley Hopkins, a Jesuit who was a true poet. His work had dimension and music, and asks the right questions while totally committed. There are many poets who have found god- the total transformation of TS Eliot's in 4 Quartets is among my most favorite poetry and it's message is the acceptance of Christ. But it says so so much more about the human condition.. and is one of the finest crafted works in the English language. So I can read and appreciate religious poetry.

Lastly I'm sure there are limits on this site, as I mentioned. Picture the outrage if we would have to posts of poems in praise of Hitler or Gangsta rap poems that revel in rape. Poets are generally enlightened souls with deep convictions. Sometimes we allow our passions to howl.

Something in me snapped at seeing yet another entry by one has not responded nor do I suspect will very get engaged here Again I promise to pass over any similar future posts, unless i think there's some craft involved.

Eumolpus
I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing
than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance
ee cummings

the especially thoughtful and huge amount of effort to make the site and everyone's point of view clear. I feel compelled to put in my last cent. I am not a religious person in any respect. I merely
reacted in a way that I would have if I had seen someone being bullied. If I had bothered to do the homework, I would have seen that it was not as I perceived it to be and not [snapped] as it has been said by some of the participants in this whole thing. That being said; I wish to apologize once more to all concerned and be done with it.

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Some of the most beautiful poetry I've read was religion based. The first example which comes to mind is the 23rd psalm. Now onward to your poem. I think it could be improved fairly easily. I will post it here with a few changes inserted to point the way toward improvement. I don't expect you to use any of these suggestions word for word but, rather, just to see there are ways to make this better :

Brighter than the stars in all the sky
Shining together forming galaxies
Brighter than all things on this earth
Brighter than anything I've ever seen

Shining to illuminate all ways for me
Revealing myriad wonders from within
Your power works glorifying Jesus
Showing the way that we follow
The wonder and glory that I have for you
These are just a few ideas which are are free to think about or not. BTW if no reply is forthcoming I'll assume you want no further suggestions from me

some things you should be aware of, regarding Laura, to put all this in context.
3 months ago Kelsey gave her excellent, helpful feedback, Jane, Mark and I gave fair feedback, without attack and Laura has not responded, nor given critique, just posted another, unoriginal piece of shit recently. Check it out-
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/poems/humbled-him
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/poems/walking-glory
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/poems/wonderful-love

cheers,
Jess
Everything changes bar one. Neopoet's 'Prime Directive'-
"Critique don't comment".
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

Most lyrics have little poetic dimension if you think of it- Bob Marely, Irving Berlin, you name it. Its simple messages, simple stories, boogie oogie oogie, We are are world or Jesus contemporary.

As I've stated about several of our group, I think some is great lyric...but not "poetry". Do I dare limit the definition of poetry? I do because if there are no definitions, no boundaries, then it's all fake news. Can everything written can be called poetry if it calls itself that? Lyric is a type of poetry. so is lullaby, greeting cards, odes and laments.

So I would suggest to this writer that they read more poems to understand the difference.

This is more between us, I think it's clear by now this is a group discussion, and I think a good one .

Eumolpus
I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing
than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance
ee cummings

that i 've experienced this kind of arguments,everybody believe in his or her Lord and I think we all have right to praise him, for me I see no reason attacking the author of that poem or each other with words.

To put all this in context note that Laura posted 3 poems 3 months ago, all of which received helpful, non-attacking feedback. She gave no responses and has given no feedback to anyone else. Then a week ago she posted this piece of shit. The responses were more direct but again NO PERSONAL ATTACKS ON THE WRITER. FYI-
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/poems/humbled-him
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/poems/walking-glory
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/poems/wonderful-love

cheers,
Jess
Everything changes bar one. Neopoet's 'Prime Directive'-
"Critique don't comment".
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

Poetically speaking God is the greatest of all time hands down. As he seeks to weave his love on a blank canvas of pure beauty. People today don't need to hear a sermon they just need your presence. They probably will not listen to you anyways. Bad things happen to good people. But: God so loved the world that he gave his ownly begotten son that whosovever believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. The name it claim it crowd does not do any justice. Life is full of upsets just look at the life of Job. Yet through it all he learned to trust in God and depend upon his word. God is in the business of salvation & restoration. Yes, there are many great poets out there but as I read more of the scriptures it demonstrates God at the top. Do something kind to your neighbor I love you all God bless your hearts.

Mario Vitale

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