About workshops

Workshops on Neopoet are groups that meet for a certain period of time to focus on a certain aspect of poetry. Each workshop participant is asked to critique all the other poems submitted into a workshop. A workshop leader helps coordinate -- they set the agenda, give participants feedback on whether their submissions and critique are at they level expected of them, and after the workshop is over, give feedback to participants. 

To join a workshop, first find one that is of interest to you. Once you have found the right workshop (and verified that it is open -- you can find this out in the description below), you can apply to join the workshop.


Join the Neopoet online poetry workshop and community to improve as a writer, meet fellow poets, and showcase your work. Sign up, submit your poetry, and get started.

More Meter

Status: 
Program description/goal: 

Description:

Leader: Jess (weirdelf)
Moderator(s): Beauregard, Geezer, Wesley Snow

Objectives: To get meter inside our heads and make it easy.

Level of expertise: Open to all

Subject matter:
More Meter

In the last meter workshop we compared iambic meter with trochaic and had a quick look at anapaestic. This time we will start with a discussion on meter and each participant's experience/knowledge of it. The workshop activities will be tailored to each persons needs and development.

Only two things are not open to argument. We will use classic meter terminology, it is not hard and it is useful. And critique of each others submissions are considered as important as your own submissions.

OK, to get the ball rolling I will give the briefest possible description I can of meter.

Meter is the rhythm of poetry as determined by the way words are pronounced normally in English, this does allow for regional and dialect variations. Meter is not about counting syllables, it is about counting Feet. A foot is two or three syllables of which one is stressed. The repetition of feet creates meter. The number of feet per line defines the metric form.

The most common forms of feet are Iambic, Anapestic, Trochaic And Dactylic and we will discuss them all.

The number of feet per line are named with Greek numeric prefixes (monometer, dimeter, etc.). We will go up to five feet per line (pentameter).

Just about everyone has heard of Iambic Pentameter. It has been popular since Shakespeare and Chaucer. Iambic Pentameter is a line of five iambs
da DUM da DUM da DUM da DUM da DUM

To join please PM me or Beauregard

Enough for now. Let's talk! In the following discussion important points about content and style will be raised. Contribute your thoughts, ideas and questions.

 

FIRST ACTIVITIES.

For those who have never consciously written in meter before-

Write up to 14 lines of Iambic Pentameter.
Do NOT rhyme.
Choose a topic that is not emotional, personal or profound, merely descriptive. This will free up your word choice.

For those who have consciously written in meter before-

Write up to 14 lines of Trochaic Pentameter.
Do NOT rhyme.
Allow variations including Dactylic and strong and weak lines.
Choose a topic that is not emotional, personal or profound, merely descriptive. This will free up your word choice.

From the Toolbar click Workshop>Submit a poem.

Copy or type in your poem. Scroll to the bottom of the screen and above the Preview button you will see a Workshop droplist. Click this and select More Meter. Then preview and save as normal.

 

PLEASE READ THE SYLLABUS, THE DISCUSSION AND ALL MESSAGES CAREFULLY

Length: 
28 days
Number of participants (limit): 
20 people
Skill level: 
Date: 
Wednesday, January 11, 2012

Comments

....could you please enroll myself in your workshop on meter?
Thank-you,
docmaverick.

Neopoet is "newtriffic" !
...from the heart, or a reasonable faxcimile;
david a. goodwin #{:>{)} @==

A small thing here, but a very important point for everyone is PLEASE READ THE SYLLABUS AND ALL MESSAGES CAREFULLY. If you look back at the syllabus I said "To join please PM me or Beauregard", there was a reason for that.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

I read the syllabus and I find it interesting. this could be right down my alley.
thanks,
Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

Here's a statement to start gnawing on:

"Meter, like rhyme, is a hangover from traditional poetry, it's been done. It has no further use. Worse, it politically reflects a conservative mentality. Free verse is the only way to write truly originally and without being a cowering, conservative fascist dog"

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

ok...ok...i'll bite
(you can take your tongue out of that cheek jess)

as a predominately free verse writer, i'd never
given much thought to meter as i considered it
an archaic thing, belonging almost exclusively
in writes shakespearean

what a nong i was

i have been discovering (slowly) that meter
is perhaps to poetry, what the skeleton is to the body...

will add more as i learn more

(jess and co, this is going to be a cracker of a workshop)

cheers
p

is caused by not knowing what to do with my tongue. It's always either in my cheek or poking out at someone.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

JUST POST A COMMENT SAYING "I'M HERE". THAT WILL ENSURE YOU RECEIVE UPDATES AND ACTIVITIES POSTED HERE AS THE WORKSHOP PROGRESSES.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Modern thinking is an overbearing drag these days. Everything is good. That should change.

I fear the backlash, but at the risk of hubris, I say we put a pause to our ego-centric culture and re-discover the joy of conformity to the traditional standards - but with the crisp, fresh air of today's language. da-Dum, da-Dum, da-Dum...

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

i'm here

will be back tomorrow
when i will have time
to comment

Nice poem.

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

So I read about iambic pentameter on Wikipedia, and I did this. It was a while back. Will probably need some work:

Become, become;
Thus roars the torrent wild,
In haste before,
The arms of Man and Child
That bear, an arm,
In triumph of the three
That dwell in one,
In man and trinity.

What do you think?

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

Lines 1, 3, 5 and 7 in dimeter and lines 2, 4, 6 and 8 in trimeter. I don't think the poem needs any work. It's a slick little thing and as far as the workshop goes, it's very consistently metered. Bravo.
wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

I'm here, anxious to see how this goes... in a good way. Read a bit about meter, mostly about iambic, obviously.
It will be interesting!

cheers

_____________
If I had it my way I'd be up on a mountain. Playing my guitar,
until my calluses grew calluses, my arse a chair and my smile into a halo

definately here!
Boni

Bonitaj

and ready

But this upset me:

"Meter, like rhyme, is a hangover from traditional poetry, it's been done. It has no further use. Worse, it politically reflects a conservative mentality. Free verse is the only way to write truly originally and without being a cowering, conservative fascist dog"

because, I feel every type of poetry has its beauty and place.

always, Cat

p.s.

how do I book mark this page?

When you fling poo, some of the stink sticks to you!

"The Book of Styx" can be ordered and purchased on line at:
http://eddystyx.mythramuse.com/

thank you beau

i also, did not know how to
save this page

cheers
p

I'm here but not heretical:
A poem must be symmetrical
For rhythm is so fundamental
that losing it is just ridiculous and temperamental

Ian

TIME FLIES LIKE AN ARROW, BUT FRUIT FLIES LIKE A BANANA

I am also here.

I think it's a silly statement. Length of use in terms of language is in no way indicative of obsolescense.
Further, the implicit characterization of those who use rhyme and meter in their poetry as "facists" and "conservatives" is, imo, repulsive, and I think it says volumes about the limitations and the bias of its author.
My two cents.

Respectfully, Jim

"Laws and Rules don't kill freedom: narrow-minded intolerance does" - Race-9togo

http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/Race_9togo

from excerpts from essays arguing against meter and rhyme. Yes people really think that! I love the statement because it calls the traditionalists fascist dogs and impliies the freeformers are close-minded commie authoritarians- everyone is offended! [grins]

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

I am here, as far as where here can be so many miles away.
lets break from domistication, I am in!
FREE VERSE YEAH!!
Eddie

Hey Mark long time no see.

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

con mi guitarra. !ay ay ay!
sorry. feeling silly.

And I'd like to quote something:

"First you need to understand and be able to use iambic pentameter (meter) before you decide not to use it" - Random Shakespearian actress in, Looking For Richard.

My sentiments exactly. The "rules" need to be understood, so that when we break them we do it in an informed way. wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

a two verse attempt to capture the ten syllables needed. Please tell me if this is correct.

To whom does it matter what has been said
Writing is a skill learned but not obtained
The challenge is in the mind not the heart
The blank page is but an empty canvas

The brush are thoughts traveling on a pulse
A painter paints a bird in natural flight
Poets give it the wind to take the sky
It is not the eyes which soar but the mind

Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

You are correct, time to take up counting instead of meter. LOL

Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

(and Jess is going to tell you this also), it's better (for the purpose of understanding meter) to count poetic feet and not syllables.
You didn't mention "what" meter your poem was written in, so I have to say that I read a bit of a mish mash of meters. Such as the first line- If read in iamb, one is forced to accent "matter" on the second syllable. So, the first two feet in line one are iamb, but the third foot is trochee. Then the line finishes with two iambs. Not that this isn't acceptable, but I think that it causes the first line to "stumble" at the trochee.
On the other hand, second stanza, second line is iambic pentameter (and I'll mention that I believe "natural" should be pronounced as a single syllable, though I'll probably get reamed for saying so).
wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

I thank you for the explaination which just made it harder on the end I'll find my way around the rules.

Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

This is my problem to, though slightly different..

Eddie, hope you don't mind, just want to use your poem to see if my Stresses are correct. If someone could help me out, I'd appreciate some feedback on this...

To whom does it matter what has been said

Writing is a skill learned but not obtained

The challenge is in the mind not the heart

The blank page is but an empty canvas

The brush are thoughts traveling on a pulse

A painter paints a bird in natural flight  (to me, na-tural,na-chryl, is two syllables, but maybe thats not natural)

Poets give it the wind to take the sky

It is not the eyes which soar but the mind

This is harder than I thought. I think I'm stressless

 

_____________
If I had it my way I'd be up on a mountain. Playing my guitar,
until my calluses grew calluses, my arse a chair and my smile into a halo

in using it I will learn also by the answer, so thank you. now we just wait for the answer.

Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

That's the trick you know, to write in a meter which is not evident because it is not forced..........stan

Usually my natural urge to rebel would stop me joining this work shop, because as soon I hear rules.connected to poetry I want to stick my finger up and walk the other way.

But I thought to myself I came here to improve my poetry, and one of the ways do that is to gain a foundation so that you have somewhere to develop from. Also it doesn't hurt to discipline and challenge yourself, now and again.

So I'm here

Lou

Stand tall, be proud to be who you are, give the world the finger!!!!

lou ...i think as you do
on both levels

it's what will expand this thing we
egotistically call our craft

cheers
p

I see no reason at all that both cannot be used in writing It should be up to the author which they select. I write strictly free verse ,BUT I am willing to learn about meter etc. It is good to know all forms . The question is not that one is out dated or one isright or wrong , the end all so to speak. But How can we use both and learn from both
Chrys

Chrys
Let your mercy spill on all these burning hearts in hell(Leonard Cohen)

I have found it useful to use rhyme and/or meter to accent specific parts of a poem when I venture into free verse...............stan

Personally I don't like using references to music when discussing poetry. However, since I studied voice for some ten years in my youth and now poorly play at four instruments I find the connotations coming back to haunt me always.
And so...
The study of meter is the study of music in speech. Written and oral. The idea that "free verse" should be written without organized structure is like handing a flute to a man who has never touched one and demanding he produce music elegant and lovely to the ear.
Meter is not a set of rules by which poets must write, it is a manner in which they may describe what they have written.
Before a speaker or poet (or a writer of prose for that matter) may produce something delicate or forceful in its construction, the individual must understand what sounds delicate or forceful or be forever lost in an endless reconstruction of what they make attempting to discover these things.
A politician studies meter. So did Michener.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

If I thought the initial statement was how you really felt I'd be gone.In my opinion any poetry without some type meter is prose.Now I expect most of you are aware that I'm pretty unschooled in both meter and free verse forms although I try to use both. It has become my firm belief that Any poet can improve by occasional forays into different forms, I know that trying free verse helps this old rhymer and expect that writing in meter (rhyming or not) would improve any die hard free verse writer. If one takes the time to really study most of the free verse poems that you really like you will find some type underlying structure and at least occasional meter. Now for question near and dear to me : Is it always wrong to vary meter within a poem ?.................stan

As we discussed elsewhere, I agree with Jess. Readability is the most important aspect of a poem. And as to one type of poet studying another type... With the horses we always say that a Jumper needs to sometimes lengthen their irons by four holes and work some Dressage, while Dressage riders need to get up on their horses necks and jump some fences. Cross training I think they call it. wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

Stan asks "Is it always wrong to vary meter within a poem?".

Absolutely not. Even the masters of metric form seldom use perfect meter throughout, especially longer pieces.  Some meters can be combined more successfully than others, such as Iambic (da DUM) and Anapestic (da da DUM), which don't mix well with Trochees (DUM da) and Anapests (DUM da da). You will end up with adjacent stressed syllables.

Another way irregular meter can be used on purpose for a special affect is using truncated feet. So if you cut off the first foot of a line of Iambic Pentameter you get a line that starts and ends strongly.
DUM da DUM da DUM da DUM da DUM
A lot of poets do this accidently, but if overused it can be repetitious to the ear.
 

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

So you are both saying that meter should vary mainly as a means to emphasize a particular line. Now does this mean that meter change from stanza to stanza is alright but meter change within a stanza should only be done to emphasize a line? I have developed a form of poetry called morphing poetry wherein the actual poetry form changes gradually from start to beginning. Could this morphing also be effective by gradually changing from one meter to a very different meter in a gradual manner? And how much meter change does it take to make a poem free verse instead of classic? And will scribbler ever stop asking questions ? lmao..........stan

I said that irregularities of meter work best if the are the same type iambic/anapestic or trochaic/dactylic.
ALSO it can be used to emphasise a line, stressed start and end.
One of the most famous lines ever uses unstressed start and end
to be or not to be, that is the question.

I've seen your morphing style in action and it is very effective. You make up the rules there, it's your baby.

And how much meter change does it take to make a poem free verse instead of classic? How long is a piece of string?

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Please have a quick look at my exercise "Killing Meter"
http://new.neopoet.com/workshop/poems/killing-meter
for an explanation of two of the forms we will be looking at.

And "Shopping for Meter"
http://new.neopoet.com/node/shopping-meter
for examples of Iambic Pentameter and Trochaic Pentameter.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

I tend to think that even if you are writing free verse , if you don't apply some form of metre, it can end up being sloppy, and without poetic qualities, or it moves over into prose.. This is easily done.

Lou

Stand tall, be proud to be who you are, give the world the finger!!!!

I'll take your suggestion and look at poetic prose in another workshop.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

I mostly like to not think (about technicalities) when an idea sparks and those first lines are scribbled.
The 'feel' of the words, the rhythm, tends to create itself from that initial phase, whether it's structured or 'free'.
Although changes in rhythm/meter aren't illegal, I am often trapped by counting syllables:P (eg, 7, 9, 7, 9, 5, 6, 5) but it can also be a good challenge, which is why I'm here;
I want to be challenged and I don't often put my self on the spot, so here I am!

_____________
If I had it my way I'd be up on a mountain. Playing my guitar,
until my calluses grew calluses, my arse a chair and my smile into a halo

to find and use real meter which is very different from counting syllables. Counting syllables is really only useful in syllable based forms like haiku and nonet, it won't help you find rhythm at all. We need to identify the stressed syllables and how they are grouped with un-stressed syllables to make a pattern of 'feet'.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

I am in the same position as BS the frist lines are always for me those that carry the poem. I always try and stay in that sphere of the indiviual poem.
This might be confusing for a person like me that has no formal traning in poetry. As you know my poetry is by ear. if it sounds right and carries the idea from beginning to end then I consider it a poem. I am like those musician who play by ear, but can't read a lick of written music.
Still I find your workshop extremly interesting!

Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

through this workshop you will develop your ear for meter, so you will be able to write your first line in a metric form that is easier to maintain for the rest of the poem, and you will be able to see what is wrong when the poem jars.

For everyone, young or old, what you have done in the past doesn't have to control what you do in the future, in life or poetry.

Don't be turned off by the technical terms, they make it easier in the long run.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

it will either help or hinder, I have always been outside of the box. i do hope that this will not create and way of thinking that will change how I write, because up to this moment it has been a pleasure.

Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

it can only help, not hinder.

As with all learning, take what works for you and leave the rest, but you can't know what works for you and what to leave until you have learned it.

Notice I seldom use formal metric or rhyme structure in my own works but knowing how to, I can use it when it adds to a poem.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

You speak truth and that I respect, so I am here to learn, with my mind and eyes wide open.
Thank you.

Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

and learning a lot from y'all an' all:) I'm going to put some of my old poems through the stress-test...

There be some wise words between your bold text; too true.

Ok, Here's some lines, brought on by this workshop, Vivaldi and science:) It's a small start, it doesn't yet explain my intention.

She dwells a mountain valley under trees.

Head swathed in golden waves like fields of wheat,

Of such uniqueness, imperfection, how

Could any feign in love ‘tward her...

A riling order, sprite of energy.

Betwixt The deep cosmology, she breathes.

A work in progress:) I may have one or two stresses wrong though. What do you think guys?

_____________
If I had it my way I'd be up on a mountain. Playing my guitar,
until my calluses grew calluses, my arse a chair and my smile into a halo

And they are not mine. They belong to Gary Lutz, a grammarian I respect. They are- "Endless Revision". In Lutz's opinion, no work of literature is ever truly finished and reworking endlessly is what he feels produces art. I don't know that this would work for everyone. There is, of course, the fear of the painter who will "fiddle" with a piece to the point of destroying it, but I don't think this is a problem for the poet as he/she can always go back to what they had previously written. It is however, the manner in which I write. As I grow as a poet I attempt to bring older works up to date with my present sensibilities. So, endless revision.

wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

I am always going back to even my oldest stuff and changing it if even just one word lol......stan

we're jumping a bit ahead here. Let's try and keep this discussion theoretical for now. We'll be composing poems in meter and submitting poems for analysis a bit later in the workshop. Otherwise this thread will become too cluttered for everyone to follow and there is the risk of monopolising, ok?
Ta

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

i have no idea what any of it is!
i just let it out and sometimes think about mechanics later, like "what the heck is that?"

and it's highly recommended,
after that the learning will be more like remembering.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Can reading out the poem in a sing-song manner help identify meter and feet? I'v got reason to believe it does, but there may be something I'm missing.

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

Reading the poem in sing-song manner helps hide mis-stresses, just as lyrics can get away with poor meter because the music can over-ride the natural stresses.

Meter is based on the natural stresses of English and reading it as normal speech is the best way to check the scansion (the analysis of the metrical structure of verse).

Having said that when first learning meter it can help to exaggerate the stresses slghtly, consider the following:

The language is the same, only the emphasis is different
the stresses naturally occur as
The LANguage IS the SAME, ONly the EMphasis is DIFFerent
if we pronounce it as
The lanGUAGE is THE same, onLY the emPHASis is diffERent
it sounds utterly bizarre.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

This helps a lot. But then again, won't dialectal differences affect what we see as a stress and not a stress?

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

but less than you might think.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

it is an example of the natural stresses in English.
Have you done any of the reading I suggested?
All four types of metric foot we are using are explained.
Once again
Iambic da DUM
Anapestic da da DUM
Trochaic DUM da
Dactylic Dum da da

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

this is good, it's a little clearer.

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

I'm always trying to read my poetry in two ways. One, naturally to feel how it would read when perused by someone first coming to it and then, in a drum beat fashion to expose flaws in the meter. So I think you're on it.
wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

But you have already broken that in two lines of perfect iambic pentameter using message and amazed.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

but don't see how to use bold type. Is there something here I'm not seeing or is the only way to use bold type is to write in my word format and paste? That would be a pain if I want to comment on a number of poems one after another. wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

Select the text you want to make bold and hit Ctrl B.
Same keyboard shortcut as in Word.
Something you can do in Word that doesn't work here is select text and hit Shift F3 to convert between caps and lowercase.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

good info

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

Let's try and keep this discussion theoretical for now. We'll be composing poems in meter and submitting poems for analysis a bit later in the workshop. Otherwise this thread will become too cluttered for everyone to follow and there is the risk of monopolising, ok?

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

the best of luck

tha same to you

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

I googled a bit:) Found this rather interesting page on meter. It's a bit highly strung with technicality, but half way through I'm enjoying the read. Might be of use...http://instructional1.calstatela.edu/tsteele/TSpage5/meter.html

 

sorry for initial bad linking. It seems to be working now. cherio

_____________
If I had it my way I'd be up on a mountain. Playing my guitar,
until my calluses grew calluses, my arse a chair and my smile into a halo

Blood

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

thanks for this,
very valuable

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

this sounds like a realy interesting workshop

Would I be right in suggesting that a poem might be regarded as a beautiful piece of sculpture, the art being the pleasure to the eye of the various shapes and planes and the science being the unseen skeleton of the meter holding it all together?

Ian

TIME FLIES LIKE AN ARROW, BUT FRUIT FLIES LIKE A BANANA

i am kind of in that mind.

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

Never fear, when we get to the posting activities stage I will have separate exercises for the beginners and real toe-curling monstrosities to challenge adepts like yourself.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Meter: the pattern of stressed and unstressed syllables in a line
The da-DUM of a human heartbeat is the most common example of Iambic meter.
The tick-TOCK rhythm of iambic meter can be heard in the opening line of Shakespeare's Sonnet 12:
When I do count the clock that tells the time
When I/ do count/ the clock/ that tells/ the time

To swell the gourd, and plump the hazel shells
To swell/ the gourd/, and plump/ the haz/el shells
John Keats' Ode to Autumn

The falling out of faithful friends, renewing is of love
The fall/ing out/ of faithful/ friends/, renew/ing is/ of love

If music be the food of love, play on
If mu/sic be / the food / of love, / play on
Shakespeare

Is this a dagger I see before me?
Is this/ a dag/ger I/ see be /fore me?
Shakespeare

whose woods these are I think I know
whose woods/ these are/ I think/ I know
Frost

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

I came upon a house today
though most of it had gone away........Iambic?........stan

we will be starting some posting activities soon.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Please be patient everyone, just waiting for a small glitch to be fixed.

In the meantime, please post any questions you have about meter or the terminology we are using.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

A close friend of mine when I was young helped us to obtain a recurve bow and its arrows. I determined to find a teacher, he felt that was foolish and that he would teach himself. Of course, anyone can teach themselves anything by trial and error. He succeeded, but I did so in a fifth of the time with even less effort.

To understand meter is to understand WHY some poems sound better than others.

The largest amount of my writing time is spent working on the ridiculous epic I desire to produce. However, I always make the time to construct smaller poems and do so using classical forms in an attempt to teach my mind how to think. The end result of this practice is that often I am able to sit with my nib pen and bottle and produce poetry that comes from my "spirit" (whatever that may be) without overt concern with the form of the poetry. The poetry is increasingly able to "take care of itself".

When I began this experiment in writing (all writing of mine), I could not rhyme with anything less than a herculean effort. After 20,000 lines of rhyming couplets I now have a difficult time NOT thinking in rhyme. Half of any art form is training.

This is not to say all poets should write in a uniform meter. Instead, I believe it worthwhile to study the meter and thereby improve the work a spontaneous poet may produce.

My apologies if this is over long, but If you have read my work, you know that "brevity" is not in my vocabulary.

wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

yes, a single foot of meter can be the end of one multi syllable word and the beginning of another. This is important otherwise all metric verse word tend to be single syllable words, which does happen with beginners, but is by no means a limitation of meter.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

what would some examples of Anapestic, Trochaic, and Dactylic? i can't get it in my head any other way.

For those who have never consciously written in meter before-

Write up to 14 lines of Iambic Pentameter.
Do NOT rhyme.
Choose a topic that is not emotional, personal or profound, merely descriptive. This will free up your word choice.

 

For those who have consciously written in meter before-

Write up to 14 lines of Trochaic Pentameter or Tetrameter, but be consistent.
Do NOT rhyme.
Allow variations including Dactylic and strong and weak lines.
Choose a topic that is not emotional, personal or profound, merely descriptive. This will free up your word choice.

From the Toolbar click Workshop>Submit a poem.

Copy or type in your poem. Scroll to the bottom of the screen and above the Preview button you will see a Workshop droplist. Click this and select More Meter. Then preview and save as normal

 

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

go to
http://new.neopoet.com/workshop/view/7096
(the link at top right of this page, >> View all poems submitted to this workshop )
to critique and offer feeback.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Since everyone is having a go at meter, you can feedback how generally rhythmic and flowing you think it is, pointing out any words that you feel jar.

Try parsing the poem with / between feet and using Advanced formatting in the comment box you can select syllables and hit Ctrl B to make Bold the syllables you think are stressed.

There is not always a right or wrong here, different regional dialects influence stress and even being aware a poem is written in a particular meter can influence the way you stress a syllable.

Just have a go. You will quickly see why giving feedback is as important to learning as writing.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

to tick
"Select if your comment is your official critique of the above as part as your participation in the More Meter workshop series - "
when posting comments.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

SOME EXAMPLES OF IAMBIC METER
http://new.neopoet.com/comment/56672#comment-56672
better still Google Iambic Meter Examples and read more.

I do agree that a lot of people have a tendency to stress the first word or syllable, but it's not necessarily natural. Iambic meter is possibly the most 'natural' meter for spoken English

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

It seems some people are floundering with both the exercise and the feedback. My apologies, sometimes it is hard to remember how difficult it was at the beginning. So I am making the exercise easier.

Up to 14 lines of either
Iambic Trimeter
da DUM da DUM da DUM
Iambic Tetrameter
da DUM da DUM da DUM da DUM
or Iambic Pentameter
da DUM da DUM da DUM da DUM da DUM
but choose one, don’t mix them up.
Do NOT rhyme.
Choose a topic that is not emotional, personal or profound, merely descriptive. This will free up your word choice. Post it in plain text then straight after in parsed form-
da DUM/ da DUM/ da DUM
(using Advanced formatting in the submit poem and comment box you can select syllables and hit Ctrl B to make Bold the syllables you think are stressed)

FEEDBACK

When giving feedback talk about rhythm and flow, point out any words that you feel jar. Parse the poem
da DUM/ da DUM/ da DUM

There is not always a right or wrong here, different regional dialects influence stress and even being aware a poem is written in a particular meter can influence the way you stress a syllable.

Oh, and remember to tick-
"Select if your comment is your official critique of the above as part as your participation in the More Meter workshop series - "
when posting feedback.

FINALLY, 24 HOURS FROM NOW AND FOR THE NEXT 5 DAYS I WILL BE AVAILABLE ON SKYPE jess.tapper1 OR GOOGLE TALK [email protected]. CALL ME AND WE CAN TALK THROUGH THE METER OF YOUR POEM OUT LOUD WHICH HELPS IMMEASURABLY

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Call me. I am only too happy to help any way I can.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

no one person is exactly the same. i'm from long island, and a lot of people from there say lawn-guy-lind instead of the way it's spelled -- long-eye-land. it depends on your parents, where you come from, where you've been, and lots of other things. i always get made fun of for my accent and my mom is even worse!
i think maybe the number of syllables in a word determines WHICH syllable is stressed in the word along with accent. see, that's where vit gets tricky.
always,
mag

with syllable count that i find is that accent effects that. like in the poem i believe is titled defibrilator or something like that, it's probably spelled wrong, the differing accents are causing differing syllable counts. i think that's a good thing though, it means the piece is truly different for everyone who reads it!

if you read and write English the syllables are the same regardless of any accent. I am the worst speller, but spell check always works. It also gives you the word in its syllable pronunciation.
So I feel that we can help ourselves in this workshop.
Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

i believe you are right.

You should all post at least 3 feedback to other submissions for each post of your own.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

GO TO
http://new.neopoet.com/workshop/view/7096
AND READ EVERONE'S SUBMISSIONS.

If you don't read and feedback on at least 3 submissions you are not learning what you can from this workshop.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

I disagree that syllable count is always the same for every body. Here are some words and variations on how I've heard them pronounced:
forest......forst.....FORest
Orange........ornj......ORanj
Memory......memry.....MEM ory.....memORy................and these are just 3 off the top of my head.........stan

are you saying that the dictionary break down of a word doesn't work because you have a drawl in your accent, isn't written english the same no matter where you come from. I believe that written poetry is not spoken poetry. spoken poetry takes the spoken language somewhere else. The written language is much more precise. In poetry we might change a meter to bend the rhythm for our benefit, but the words are still used in its proper english form meaning and pronounced in the right syllable count. if I write the way we speak in NY the poetry would be lost to interpretation. That's what save us, that in the written we can understand because we do not hear anothers accent. It's what i believe.

Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

I agree with you. The written word is different from the spoken word.

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

nobody listens to me.

The way a word is written or spoken in a poem is based exclusively on the character of the voice.
Every poem has a "character" reading the poem. It is speaking English, so we understand it. How it speaks the English is based on the "character" that is reading the poem.

Now, I know I'm getting too big for my britches, but...
Respectfully,
wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

Every poet "hears" a particular "someone" reading their poem. It may be the poet's own voice or a stylized character the poet instinctively adopts. Whether a poet is aware of this or not, his/her poem is being "spoken" by an individual that is critically important to how the poem will be written and yet, I think is predominately ignored by most poets. They simply "write" their own style and never think in terms of a voice.
wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

you read it and you say the words in your head, right? unless you're speed reading, which is not really appropriate for this situation, but that's a whole other point -- the thing is, the way you would say it out loud is how it sounds in your head unless you can imagine someone else saying it.

The poem has a voice separate from the poet. Whether the poet knows it or not, the voice speaks on the page due to how the poet perceives it. It is a voice that may be the poet's own voice or a dramatized version of the poet or any number of combinations either unintentional or otherwise.
When someone "reads" the poem, this is a second character speaking the words of another (the true voice of the poem). Each character adds to the mix of altered pronunciation. This is the life of the poem.
wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

that makes sense.

Did Ginsberg "hear" "Howl" by someone??
I dont hear anyone
Im not at La Cloche mountians at the lake
anyway I have a nice voice!

Writing comes first and then the formulation
for voice follows
that was it for me
How many can say they were told their writing
was shits They were stupid to be poets
I raise my hand?? message me if you were one
of those who were shoved down and never "given"
a voice..Thing about talent is it just grows
It rises like a wave until it is a voice
Until people love it so much they begin talking
aloud the words they love to read and it becomes
a large voice

I imagine all those who told Ghandi he was crazy
that no one would listen
not me

there are many voices here
beautiful some of them
Im not going to tell them they are not
going to be heard

not in a longshot!!!

who doesn't need to learn the 'tools' of poetry. Sure it wouldn't hurt, but the reason I've never hassled you to join the workshops is only partly because I know you have limited internet time, it is also because you push yourself in your art. You learn as you go. Quite the opposite of those unloved ones who write endless variations of the same old crap and never grow or improve.

I haven't always appreciated your changes of direction at the time, but have been consistently proved wrong as you developed them into new forms.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

all I have that wasnt touched by mothers boozing when I
was in the womb (birth mom) and my own destruction
through the years (still at it) is Intuition
Ive seen people play piano and guitar without understanding
sheet music..basically Ive just read and read poetry until
I can get a basic feel for it..and then I was so adamant
to not end up sounding like anyone else enough..and I do
push the abstract to the edge and beyond..I keep writing
high school because that was the last learning social place
for me unlike many here who have university and college
formal education..I remained in books to obtain a somewhat
view of what I did not know anything of. You are correct
in saying that It would not hurt to learn tools of this art
I love...Most of its pure greek to me what you are discussing
here but I must say I do love the critiquing and work going
on lately..in less then a week or more I will be back to
my hour a day routine..What I write here I call Poetry Propaganda
as I love radio talk people and the old classic orations of
politics even though Im not gung ho for it..there is remarkable
love I say for the technique of broadcasting with the voice!
I just smash words and leave them out to get that sound in
my head a feel regardless if its correct or not..If I was
publishing I would have to stop that and it would mortify me
to write as I do now. Im glad to be part of the chatter
and learning aspect of these venues of thought and ponder

Thank You

Like you i had no formal education, i would write by feel. I never did alot of reading of the classic, but since i came to Neopoet four years ago, I got hooked. I went back to school and took basic writing so I could keep up with what goes on around here. My poetry comes from a mother who had the good sense to read poetry to me in Spanish. The bug to write poetry did not come till I reached my fifties. I am thankful to Neopoet and people like Jess, Rett Jim, Andrew, and Paul for having the foresite to make this a true poet's site and a user friendly atmosphere. Now that the sewing circles are gone, it has truly become the best poetry site on the net. So any workshop that people like you and I can get into is a plus for the craft.
respest to you and the natural art you have, but i think that said, to learn more about it can never hurt. those were words that Jess once said to me and I have to say that he was right.

Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

I am not multi-lingual as some here are but I Do realize a poem written in one language might not translate well to another. In my opinion the same can often hold true about a poem written by a person with one accent or dialect and read by another with a different accent or dialect even if the language is the same. If you've read any Robert Burns poetry you can see a great example of this. He speaks English but then writes in a dialect which is almost a different language. His poems work well in the dialect but not so well when "translated" into standard English. It is this very variance in the way a word can be spoken that lends some of the beauty to poetry. How often have all here read a poem, scratched their head about it then came back later and reread it and the old light bulb goes off and you say Ah! Ha! It is the variables in pronunciation, I think, which often caused this................stan

The beautiful capital of Scotland is Edinburgh,
Pronounced by Yanks as Ed in bow row, by most Scots as Edn burr uh and by locals as En bra.
So you can have 4, 3 or 2 syllables for the same word.

Ian

TIME FLIES LIKE AN ARROW, BUT FRUIT FLIES LIKE A BANANA

but are any of these corrected when read in english I understand the nuances of speech, but as stan said, we sometimes have to scratch our head because of it. sometimes to be honest i will not return to a poem because of it. literary license is a funny thing to me, or at lease the excuse of a poet. I am a criminal of that also. I am just trying to learn it the right way for this workshop. when I write that's a whole other story.

Eddie
...

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

To understand how poetry is created is to put ease in the actually writing of the poem. wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

someone understood, respect to you Wes.

Eddie
...

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

As in building, it's much easier to creat a thing of beauty if we have a basic set of skills and a blue print to go by. I think a few rare individuals have an inate abilty to write poetry well but the rest of us have to work at it........stan

I have to say I agree, but I did come here to learn how to read the "Blue Prints: of the lanuage of poetry. so as i go my poetry evolves, and that is a good thing or maybe not. I always ask myself once i learn will my voice or thoughts change, but I have elected to accept it. It will be what it will be for better or worst.

Eddie
...
"To the many voices I hear here, somewhere in here I will find mine. and hooray to me and all who have helped. The search continues?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

I would not be in this shop if I didn't want to begin learning the poetry "building code" either lol..........stan

Does anyone need more feedback on stage 1?

 

We will move onto the second activity soon, where you will submit a previously written poem and see if some meter might help. It will not be fascist. There will be no obligation to change your poem. We will just be looking how elements of meter might help.

 

Please, please, please keep them short, it is a long, boring task parsing poetry.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

you started this, so stop complaining.

Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

in different dialects, but it is not as great as people are making it out to be. English is English and by far most of the stresses are the same.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment


I've found it's the easiest and clearest by trial and error.

1. Select Advanced Formatting
2. Only then paste in the poem or it loses formatting
3. Go through and select each stressed syllable and hit Ctrl B to make it bold.
4. Then go through and add the '/'s to separate the Feet

To think the pain that comes is felt to learn
To think/ the pain/ that comes/ is felt/ to learn [Iambic Pentameter!]

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

All poems submitted for second stage will be subject to critique.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

have we fully completed the first activity, or are we still able to post?
I'd like to try the trochaic. No worries if it's past. It'll probably take me a few days of pondering anyway:P and I can just post to the stream.

As soon as I find an old poem I don't think is crap I'll post one up for 2nd stage.
Cheers for the workshop Jess, I've learnt quite a lot already:)
Jimbo

_____________
If I had it my way I'd be up on a mountain. Playing my guitar,
until my calluses grew calluses, my arse a chair and my smile into a halo

We've has a couple of newcomers and some struggling with meter. So we will run the workshops to everyone's need. Something of a statement of intent in the 'last few word' would help.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

cool! this workshops turning into a meter frenzy!! haha.

makes sense; the statement of intent
cheers

_____________
If I had it my way I'd be up on a mountain. Playing my guitar,
until my calluses grew calluses, my arse a chair and my smile into a halo

.........

 

 

 

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

I thought if I learn to parse someone elses poem and follow the four meters provided, then I can write a poem in that meter withstanding grammar. I see that very few are sticking to one meter. I am of the opinion if we master just one meter then we can move to the next. The way for me to master it is if I parse the poem I wrote and stay within one meter. I believe once I have capture all four then I can write and use all in a poem, where it can sound in correct meter. Here I have copied the meters we are suppose to be using in this workshop:

I will kill especially you Kill you,

Kill you, Kill you, Kill you, Kill you,

death by Iambic Pentameter

 

I will definitely kill you Kill you,

Kill you, Kill you, Kill you, Kill you,

death by Trochaic Pentameter

 

I will kill you right now Kill you now,

Kill you now, Kill you now, Kill you now,

death by Anapestic Tetrameter

 

I will definitely kill you, now

Kill you now, Kill you now, Kill you now, Kill lyou now,

death by Dactylic Tetrameter

I truly don't know if this help, but it is helping me get an understanding

Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

Do you mean that if we master one meter at a time (and there are more than four, these are just the most common) then we can use them all within the same poem? That could be useful for a specific purpose, perhaps using Iambic/Anapestic for some verses and Trochaic/Dactylic for other verses to indicate a change of voice or narrative however using them within the same line it would not be meter.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Yes, to make it sound like diffrent voices in different stanzas as if seen from different prespecctives. I understand not to use them in the same line> I am getting what you're imparting here. I am saying that i see people in the workshop write a poem and it's filled with many meters. I do get that they're a lot of different meters, but i am just talking of the ones you have ask us to use. if i could get each one and learn that one withstanding my bad grammar. I was just trying to help those who might be having a little trouble as I am.
I believe if I stick to the way I write without learning this, that is as far as i will get, but when i started this workshop as you know i thought that maybe this would hinder my natural way of writing. I now see a whole new world of possiblity.

Eddie

We will see where this takes my writing.

...

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

"a whole new world of possiblity" for you. Yes, we are identifying lots of meters mixed together in works and it would certainly be ideal to work in just one at a time. Maybe the workshop should have been more heavily structured, but a lot of poets rebel against that.

Remember as you may learn things from the workshops I run, at the same time I am learning how to run workshops and I've made plenty of mistakes. Even had hissy fits in the first couple when things weren't going the way I thought they should. It's learning all round and I'm open to all suggestions.

Thanks for your input and encouragement, Eddie, it is much appreciated.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

it's not so much that i don't like it, it's that it throws me off.
should i post an old poem still or just stick to commenting? i'm not sure i truly get meter, but then again, i know a lot more than when i started.

either write a new piece attempting to use what you've learned about meter or an older one for revision.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

I love them, the most free thinking people in the whole world, I think that the first arguements started with two poets, talk about having opinions. I LOVE IT!!

Eddie

LIFE ISN'T ABOUT WAITING FOR THE STORM TO PASS
IT'S ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO DANCE IN THE RAIN.
VIVIAN GREENE

Two poets arguing, hanging by their tails, one finally said "Right! Outside!"

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

grunt Grunt grunt Grunt ugh Ugh ugh Ugh........prehistoric iambic tetrameter lmao.......stan the caveman

astounding vocabulary stan. well done. :)

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

... in the general population some 7% are manic depressive. Among poets it jumps to 47%. Watch your back! wesley

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

But just to function without majorally bad episodes of grandiosity or just plain nastiness some of us have to.

I've been waiting for someone to say "If you are such hot shit to run Mentors and Workshops, where is your poetry?" My answer is that it comes cold and hard and seldom now, but it's better than being an out of control prick.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

I've also discovered, through the torments I inflicted on myself and others in these meter workshops, that re-writing the meter of a poem is a total mindfuck. Don't even try. The meter needs to be there when you conceptualise it. You have to know meter before you can use it. This is probably the most important thing I've learned myself from these two workshops.

And apart from doing workshops how do you learn meter? You read it. Find poets who use certain meters and read them aloud till you know what it sounds like.

The very worst poets do not ever read the great poets.

cheers,
Jess, Neopoet Directors
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

author comment

Now that you have said it , I can go do it.
"And apart from doing workshops how do you learn meter? You read it. Find poets who use certain meters and read them aloud till you know what it sounds like."
Wish I could have participated. I have too much going on thats stressing me to my knees to concentrate on such a challenging workshop.

What's too much for one is exactly what another needs.

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka. All Neopoets welcome to join the Collaborative Poetry Writing Workshop.
https://pixiblogs.blacpixi.com/

(c) Neopoet.com. No copyright is claimed by Neopoet to original member content.