About workshops

Workshops on Neopoet are groups that meet for a certain period of time to focus on a certain aspect of poetry. Each workshop participant is asked to critique all the other poems submitted into a workshop. A workshop leader helps coordinate -- they set the agenda, give participants feedback on whether their submissions and critique are at they level expected of them, and after the workshop is over, give feedback to participants. 

To join a workshop, first find one that is of interest to you. Once you have found the right workshop (and verified that it is open -- you can find this out in the description below), you can apply to join the workshop.


Join the Neopoet online poetry workshop and community to improve as a writer, meet fellow poets, and showcase your work. Sign up, submit your poetry, and get started.

Meter... The Workshop.

Status: 
Program description/goal: 

Description: A workshop concerning basic meter.

Leader: Wesley Snow
Moderator(s): Keith Logan, Jane210660
Sound Tech: weirdelf

Objectives: To aid in explaining basic meter in such a way as it may be used in continued poetry.

Level of expertise: Open to all

Subject matter: Meter vs. Rhythm, the four most common metric structures, exercises to practice what we learn. The importance of meter as the most important poetic structure.

Length: 
30 days
Number of participants (limit): 
30 people
Skill level: 
Date: 
Saturday, April 29, 2017 to Wednesday, May 31, 2017
Short description: 
Welcome all. It has been two years since this shop was last held and it's high time to do it again.

Comments

Please add me

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Good to hear your "voice".

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I know how intimidating the initial tussles can be, it will settle down, I promise.
Observe and feel free to participate any time you want to.

Poets don't like rules so we never enforce them, as if we could [smiles].
Remember this is a democratically run site by poets for poets. I know that sounds impossible, I thought so 10 years ago, and here we still are.

So wet your toes, feel free to comment even without committing. We are here to help each other, nothing more.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

know that I won't wait to start on the starting date. However, it's too soon for even me.
Okay, that's not true.
Our first subject will be
Rhythm vs. Meter.
Think on it.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

He has offered to be our sound tech. It seems we shall have help in hearing our exercises as well as just reading them.
Thanks Jess.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

but every workshop you have joined you have hindered by meaningless blather and promoting your own work that by contributing in a constructive lucid way.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

As jess says
I cause self promotion
and
I am DEAF
can't hear
so cheers
hi jess thanks

.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

You're signed in and ready to go when we get started. Be patient little one. Be patient.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

As jess says
I cause self promotion
and
I am DEAF
can't hear
so cheers
hi jess thanks

great idea indeed!

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
www.instgram.com/rularules1

Thanks for the invite. Great and neglected subject of poetry. I'd love to listen in. I'm not finding info on the format- .is it skype or something similar? are there specific hours?

Eumolpus
I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing
than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance
ee cummings

Eumolpus, this is my first workshop, so I'm not familiar with the format.
I believe we communicate through this thread and will also have the benefit of bringing SoundCloud in via a link.
Wesley and Jess may answer this better than I.
Am very pleased you are going to join us. I have added your name to the list.
Cheers

------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

though I would be happy to use it one-on-one.

For workshops we use Vocaroo-
http://vocaroo.com/
which is non-archival.

SoundCloud is for polished pieces to be kept and can be shared with social media-
https://soundcloud.com/upload-beta

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

add me! Do we get to do our own audio? ~ Gee.
.

Comments and critique are a vital part of our community!
Critique or comment today!

You're added Gee -see you there!
Jx

------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

For those with technical difficulties I will be happy to assist or read for you myself.
The preferred sound site is Vocaroo.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

I have a tendency to start a little early out of excitement.
And Loved... don't sweat the big things. Think and like Jess says... talk in clear English and you'll be fine. You can learn much if you won't play so much. Take it a bit seriously and all will be well. You are a fine poet and know it.
What in the world is a wanker?

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

fell out of place.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

u give me credence at 77

.wrong thread, sorry.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

I agree. Give me a little time to get my legs back. I've been gone too long.
Second... My poetry is junk. Format and no emotion. I work on that endlessly. Thus my complaint in my first poem poem back (My Plague). I have no heart to use in my poetry. It is dull and correct. That is all.
If you would like a little critique... may I suggest a little proofreading. Your comments are sometimes difficult to read because you write so fast and then do not reread what you have proposed. This one was full of run on letters so much I had trouble figuring out what you were saying.
Third... I do try to read as much as I can and offer what criticism I can (except Esker... you are right. He is over my head and I cannot help if I wanted to (which I do).
I will take your challenge. I will not only read and encourage, but offer real time criticism of what I read.
I would love to write. At this moment that is hard. However, I can offer more. I need to be a much more functioning member of the site if I am to remain.
Fourth... we are colleagues. I have and will continue to consider you my mentor. You have (more than any other) been an influence on my poetry. Take that as you will.
I love the workshops as it offers me the chance to share what I have learned (mostly here), but I desire to give more. I cannot use your language. At heart I am a nice guy and respond to other's poetry accordingly. This makes it difficult to "shake the boat" so to speak. I can. I have. It is difficult.
I will try... in my own poetry (I have been doing so for some time now) and in my critique.
I will start with you (beyond the proofreading comment which I consider important).
Your opinion is critical to me at all times.
Feel free to critique my workshop if you will. I try my utmost to make them informative and fun. Perhaps I could make them tough as well. We shall see. I have a lot to say, but often don't say it as I hate making enemies. You have no such fear. Sometimes that works. Sometimes I believe it is destructive and nonconstructive.
Nevertheless, I read all you write in response to other's poetry. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I should open my mouth and tell you what a fucking wanker you are being.
For example, your comments to loved do not achieve results. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing expecting different results. Change.
I know you mean to move me to that very same change. I can but try.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

that was not meant for you or this thread.
My very very bad, Wesley.
Comes from having multiple tabs open.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

for 6 decades now
MOSTLY
crap poetry
a few gems
and firing a machine gun
with poetic bullets

was or is my hope
and scope
no wankering nowjess
tis a lost sinking boat

did you not see the Titanic man!
sunk 77 years ago

wank·er (wăng′kər)
n. Chiefly British Vulgar Slang
1. A person, especially a man, who

masturbates..................... as well said

2. A foolish or detestable person.===eg LOVEDLY LOVED BLAH blah blah

Learn how to laugh at yourself
you will REDUCE
your medicines BILL
go uphill and wanker if you will
tension must you release
prevent mental/ psychosomatic disease

I'd love to join.

Great stuff and welcome, I'll add your name to the list.
Jx

------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

Add me, sounds great.

Welcome.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

If any of you have the time and inclination to read the Elf's and my exchange above... you may very well be in trouble. I confess I am soft on critique as I do not want to hurt feelings. This is not what I want in my poetry.
I take very seriously "knock me on my butt". I do not want nor never have wanted watered down criticism (by the way critique and criticism are the same thing). I have always wanted the vodka straight truth about what I produce. I cannot grow with a collection of feel good comments (DO NOT COMMENT, CRITIQUE. NEOPOET IS A WORKSHOP ENVIRONMENT).
My workshop was from the beginning to be a serious look at meter and how it relates to all poetry... free verse and structured.
This will not change, but I will be harsher when difficulties arrive. No one will need Valium when all is said and done, but all will work harder to understand. This is a promise. The objective in the syllabus says that the shop will instill an understanding of meter as it exists in the English language. This also I promise. You will learn.
Get on your toes. I have accepted the Elf's challenge and will honor that commitment. I may not use false language, but I can open up and use the harsher words that I keep to myself.

Tomorrow is the 26th. A good time for Wesley to begin (I always start early).
Our first subject will be Rhythm vs. Meter and why they work together and not against each other.
Think on that.
As I have effectively begun I invite comment on the subject now.

Another thing. Proofread your comments. I want everyone to understand them. If I find typographical errors or grammatical faux pas I will kill you for it. Speak in plain English as the Elf has proposed. Clarity is key. No mistakes. Do not put something out there unless it is EXACTLY what you wanted to say.

Proofread and take a care. I will not tolerate sloppy comments. You are all adults. Write like them.
I challenge one and all to find a typographical error or grammatical sloppiness in what I write. Point it out mercilessly.
That goes for all.
You have signed up. I consider that a contract. No one leaves because I have taken a slight turn in my attitude. The workshop will be informative and fun (whether anyone likes it or not).
See you in your poetry.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I need help and is by far my biggest short coming when it comes to poetry. I have such a love/hate relationship with rhythm and meter. I want to believe they go well together because they create a specific beat or flow to the poem but I struggle to understand the difference between them both as they seem to move interchangeably throughout writing. Can you please explain?

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Have no fear. I am still here.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I have always thought and been taught, rhythm and metre (English spelling) were two different things. I have used the term rhythm and metre and meant two different things.
Yet in various places on site, I have been slapped down and told they were one and the same.
So I would like that issue clearing up.
Surely they work together in poetry, because the rhythm is dictated by the metre.
Just my thoughts.
Jx

------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

Meter and rhythm are not the same thing.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

As I said in my opening comments, rhythm is what happens when we write. It may be lovely or ugly, but it is there whether we like it or not. Meter describes this rhythm. With the use of metric structure we can fix rhythm so that it is lovely. We can therefore recognize what is good and what is not.
They are two different things. Use meter and fix rhythm. Understand meter and rhythm can be repaired.
A poem that runs on wiily nilly will sound ugly. A poem that uses organized meter can be beautiful.
You are right to assume they are different. Meter simply describes what we write.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I should not have tried to comment way up here.

Keith Logan
the happy chappy
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

Everyone reads what everyone says no matter how long or tedious. We cannot learn if we do not learn from one another.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

We'll start today, so don't worry.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Meter in poetry is the technical composition of a line.
Excellent description.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

that rhythm is simply created when we use a consistent meter (iambic, trochaic, anapestic, dactyl, etc...) throughout the piece.

 

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
www.instgram.com/rularules1

Although surely a rhythm (of sorts) is created when we use inconsistant metre too. ie. more than one metre throughout a piece.

Incidently, my advance formatting doesn't seem to give me an itallic option - unless I'm looking in the wrong place.

------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

Ctrl I for italics (don't use them, they are hard to read)
and Ctrl B for Bold.
Other Word keyboard shortcuts work in Advanced formatting.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

Rhythm is. Period. It may be lovely or ugly, but it will exist in a poem whether we care or not. Meter can help us recognize why it is either.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

the use of iambic with anapestic and trochaic with dactyl works well and will still create a pleasant flow. At least what I've always learnt.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
www.instgram.com/rularules1

ta DUM is similar to ta ta DUM
but very different from DUM ta and DUM ta ta.
They clash.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

Meter is the description of rhythm. ie meter = rhythm.

It does not include consonance, assonance, rhyme or other poetic structures.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

if I have rushed some unneeded information. Let's just wait for the boss.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
www.instgram.com/rularules1

If we do not play with this we'll get know where.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

The following is the first line of one of my sonnets,
Yesterday I learned a heart was pained

Keith Logan
the happy chappy
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

but as I am sure you are aware, must be used sparingly. In this instance it was to give a strong emphasis to the start, thus drawing the reader in more deeply to the question of what happened yesterday.

Keith Logan
the happy chappy
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

try to check the dictionary.

Alid

an accented syllable is hard and an unaccented is soft. That's not the full explanation, but it will do.
For example: "I" is a short syllable, therefore soft, but a lot depends on where it is placed in the verse. "Verse" is a hard depending on it's placement. It is a long syllable. It simply takes more time to say.
In ancient Greece they spoke of long and short syllables which closely correspond. Think more in those terms and it will be easier.
More importantly, think in terms of feet as that is the modern way of structuring poetry.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Count me in. I'm still using library comp. (damned ISP hasn't got me hooked up yet). But I'll catch up once back on line. God knows I need practice with meter............stan

Added to group Stan. Jx

------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

Rhythm v metre and having given it more thought.
Rhythm isn't versus metre, it's not competing. They are completely linked. Rhythm is not metre, rather metre defines the rhythm.

------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

!

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Here I am late to the discussion as usual.Good rhythm is what we all strive for (with a few exceptions such as when an abrupt break in rhythm is used to accent a change) in our writing. We all know good rhythm when we read it. Meter is the tool we use to achieve good rhythm, whether or not we Know we're using it. It's the repair and maintanence(sic) manual for good poetry and thus worth knowing.......not bad for somebody who sucks at both rhythm and meter lmao.........stan

Perfect Wesley time.

Let's begin at the beginning.

Jane was right, but I'll get there in time.

What is Rhythm? Rhythm is older than speech. Rhythm is what all poetry has for good or ill. The flow of the poem, the music it creates is rhythm. It can move gently through in a pleasing fashion or it can stumble and annoy. Rhythm is what you get when you write.

What is Meter? Meter, simply put, DESCRIBES the rhythm.

This workshop is concerned with the mechanics.

Meter is how we describe the structure of a poem. Meter begins in ancient Greece when the various "modes" were developed. Ionian and Dorian were the two most common. In ancient poetry there were (and are still) long and short sounds. Through the centuries these have developed into a set pattern of modern "modes". But before I get off on a tangent let's lay down some initial ground rules.

To begin:

A single line of poetry is called a verse (I will use this term exclusively henceforth). Each verse is divided into what we refer to as poetic "feet". There are numerous types of feet, but we will restrict ourselves to the four most widely used.

They are Iamb, Trochee, Dactyl and Anapest.

A "foot" is a two or three (in our case) syllable structure. I will begin with Iamb.

Iamb is used in perhaps seventy percent of all English poetry and is the easiest to use. The others grow increasingly more difficult. It consists of two syllables. An unaccented syllable followed by an accented syllable.

Example (and I use Advanced Formatting, so the unaccented syllable will not be in bold print while the accented will be in bold print): ta - tum. This is a single foot of Iamb. Unimeter. 

Two together will make a bimeter verse: ta - tum, ta -tum. Three is trimeter.Four is quadmeter. The most common is Pentameter (penta being five in the Greek).

An example:

When I / have fears / that I / may cease / to be   (Keats)

I have separated the feet by slash lines that you may count them and find that the verse is in pentameter. Five feet, each an unaccented syllable followed by an accented syllable.

This is Iambic Pentameter.

This verse /is meant / to show / you how / it's done.     (me)

Your first assignment is quite simple. Write four lines of Iambic Pentameter (a quatrain). They need not rhyme nor be separated into sections as I have done. We will discuss scansion (you Brits call it parsing) later. Simply show me that you understand what I have discussed in the simplest terms possible.

Then we'll talk.

 

 

 

 

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

KINDLY Sir,
Do first QUALIFY
''RHYTHM METRE CADENCE AND HARMONY''
BEFORE STEPPING INTO COMPOSING any kind of POETRY

This is Iambic Pentameter.
This verse /is meant / to show / you how / it's done. (me)SNOWMAN

‘BY LOVERME ...JUST A MAIDEN ATTEMPT
DO MACHINEGUN ME...
WHERE NEEDED

‘’Your VERSE/does SIGNIFY/your SENSE/of ELABORATION/of IAMBIC

But SURELY/all KNOW/now MORE/what SIGNIFIES/your METRE

As RHYTHMIC/a NEED/in POETRY/for BEGINNERS/learning BASICS

It’s FUNDAMENTAL/simple COMPOSITION/an INITIATION/to LEARNING/poetic NUANCES’’

SIMPLY PUT THUS

Your verse/does signify/your sense/of elaboration/of iambic

but surely/all know/now more/what signifies/your metre

as rhythmic/a need/in poetry/for beginners/learning basics

it’s fundamental/simple composition/an initiation/to learning/poetic nuances

''''''Hope this meets the brief....'' Sir..

finesse

Your verse/does signify/your sense/of elaboration/of iambic
but surely/all know/now more/what signifies/your metre(meter)
as rhythmic/a need/in poetry/for beginners/learning basics
it’s fundamental/simple composition/an initiation/to learning/poetic nuances

not even close. Try using single syllable words to begin with. That may help. Your own scansion should tell you that you are not writing in Iamb.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Wait until you try Dactyl though.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

my latest free verse poetry... modified as per SNOWMAN'S direction... would read thus....

Intelligent Fools

There is/ no problem/ in this /thought process/now surfaced
only fools/who think/they have/more confidence/than others
jump into/ a burning / incendiary fire/ showing off/their tomfoolery
As nonchalantly/they behave /really silly/only abnormally/absent minded

Those really/intelligent ones/who have /more doubts/quietly observe
only wonder/ and try /to resolve/ to save /the next
fools batch/who may/so follow/their predecessors/really nonchalantly
Intelligent only /have doubts/next time /they hope/the guys

will wear/a raincoat/to save/themselves from/imminent disaster
before into /flames they /dare naked/ and bare/their body
long hair/susceptible to/the ensuing/ravishing flames/they fare
such assistance/how ever/distantly remote/will prove/absolutely beneficial

Again, your own scansion shows how far off of simple Iamb you are. You are trying too hard. It's much simpler than all that you are producing. All the exercise asks for is a quatrain (four verses).

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

The night is short
The days are long
The sun will rise
The moon has died

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

However, it is not pentameter. You need five feet per line. You have written in bimeter (two feet per line). Try again and add three feet per verse.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I thought I left something out but it was late at night and my mind was elsewhere. Will give this another go with longer "feet"

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

The night/ is short/ too short/ for me/ my friend
The days/ are long/ too long/for me/ my friend
The sun/ will rise/ the moon/ has died/ my friend
The stars/ will mourn/ the clouds/ will cheer/ my friend

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

I love that. Jx

------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

Hoping i got it

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Iambic pentameter it is.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

It was actually fun

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Foretelling fate she sensed a while ago,
she left a farewell letter, writ with tears,
For romance gave her slabs, it wouldn't show
But tons of nightmares nagging blooming years

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
www.instgram.com/rularules1

You figured this out long ago.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
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author comment

I like this, Rula. Not only does it flow well but it also gives an image in the reader's mind.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

retried

Face ME/think QUICK./just WOW/for NOW/what NEXT?

IAMBIC, single syllable- Pentameter,five feet

Any good?/better /or as silly!

I am okay with my FREER....worse read V....

Now try two verse. Two verse only Loved. Don't write us a poem. Just two lines of iambic pentameter.
And Jess is right. Context will change the meter, but don't sweat that. Keep on doing what you're doing. You're finding it and that's all I want for now.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

as poem, with the 'workshop' box ticked? That would free up this thread a bit.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

None of this is going to the Stream.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I am totally committed to English versus American spelling but in terms of prosody meter is actually spelled meter not metre.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

Here is the spelling from the Oxford English Dictionary
metre2
(US meter)
NOUN

1The rhythm of a piece of poetry, determined by the number and length of feet in a line.
‘the Horatian ode has an intricate governing metre’
mass noun ‘unexpected changes of stress and metre’
More example sentences Synonyms
1.1 The basic rhythmic pattern of beats in a piece of music.
‘a dance song in fast quadratic metre’
‘Prokofiev's complex metres’
More example sentences
Origin
Old English, reinforced in Middle English by Old French metre, from Latin metrum, from Greek metron ‘measure’.

And here is the Collins definition and spelling

2. variable noun
In the study of poetry, metre is the regular and rhythmic arrangement of syllables according to particular patterns.
[technical]
They must each compose a poem in strict alliterative metre.
All of the poems are written in traditional metres and rhyme schemes.
COBUILD Advanced English Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins Publishers

However, trimeter, pentameter etc are spelt with the 'er' ending.
Just one of the quirks of the English language.

I have taught English for quite a few years, I can spell.
Jx

------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

though even Stephen Fry, yes Stephen fucking Fry, uses meter rather than metre when referring to poetry.
tomayto tomahto, lets let this one rest, ok?

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

Yes, but come on Stephen Fry defected to America. She says grinning broadly. Jx

------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

I have always spelled it "meter", but like the other spelling.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Hi everyone

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* Amqerican Version of Japanese Poetry ~American Renga~ Free Verse, Western, Modern, etc ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka, Renga All Neopoets are welcome to join the Collaborative Poetry Writing fun.

You are on the list. Jx

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Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

Here is my attempt:

I hope my work is good enough for you.
I think I understand. I could be wrong.
I think this form is really not so bad.
I do believe the worst is yet to come.

And why yes, the worst is certainly yet to come. This may be a beginner's workshop, but beginning is still a stinker.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I have to use iamb to write this verse

if that’s not bad enough it gets much worse

I need five feet on every single line

But Wesley says it does not have to rhyme.

------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

to show how meter is actually natural.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1smuVb9PxgP

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

Couldn't have read it better myself. Jx

------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

You even used multi syllabic words and rhyme. Bravo dear. And thank you for your dissertation on "metre".
My spell check doesn't like "metre".

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

before going on. Kick it in the rear people. Keith... where are you?
Remember, this is the easy part.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Figured that I've been sick long enough, sorry about the late start.

If I seem scared, don't want to die
It's true, you know, you know it's true
You fear, I fear, the same as I
I know you do, you know it too, don't you?

Comments and critique are a vital part of our community!
Critique or comment today!

It might be the opportunity to get back my mojo....

Mark ... a soft foot is found in as to how we pronounce the word...
to DAY
HELL o
(Lower case soft)

I'm not sure it that is what you are trying to ask, or if you re looking for signs as found in music. If that's the case, check out 'foot prosedy' in wikki...
Getting a little ahead of Wes' workshop... sorry Wes, so lovely to see you back, was worried about your health xxx

My attempt
I've lost desire to write of joy or fear,
and lately found all others' ideas drear.
Perhaps this shop will help me find some bliss
and somehow write less boring stuff than this.

Love judy
xxx
.

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

attempt

Added you to the list. Jx

------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

soft or hard?
hmmm stressed or unstressed is the question.
try this
we say
The language is the same only the emphasis is different.
normally pronounced
The language is the same only the emphasis is different.
now try saying this out loud
The language is the same only the emphasis is different.

weird, eh.
Meter is based on the stress we place on syllables in normal speech. It varies only slightly with accent.
We say cigarette, Americans say cigarette.

The French do it differently, instead of stress they use long or short, which is why the heavily French influenced Southern States Americans have distinctly different stress patterns.

oh, and I've put this on Soundcloud because the Sound Tech (me) is having a temporary glitch with Vocaroo which would be the preferred site for this workshop, but Soundcloud is fine.

https://soundcloud.com/neopoet/stress-patterns-for-meter

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

This is interesting Jess. If you write a poem in say iambic pentameter, can you change its metre to say trochee just by changing the stress?
Jx

------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

Stressed syllables are part of natural speech.
It can change by context. But only by meaningful context.

Did you say that (did someone else say it?)
Did you say that (did you mean that?)
Did you say that (accusanional)

Normally context will answer the stress.

No, you can't change from one meter to another within the context of a whole poem. I've tried and it is virtually impossible without changing meaning. I didn't believe it when I was studying poetry at Uni but I've tried and tried, I love breaking rules. You all know that. I learned this in previous meter workshops.

For those poets who think learning structure inhibits their creativity, you are full of shit. Learn meter, start the poem with a meter in mind and I defy you to change the meter without changing meaning.
This is where it gets really interesting. If you learn meter think of the meaning of the poem, think of the sound it makes, when you hear it in your head you will know which meter to use. Then you can fuck with it all you like, but if you change between opposing meters it will jar, badly.
Iambic (da DUM) works with Anapest (da da DUM), Trochee (DUM da) works with Dactyl (DUM da da). Beginning and ending beats per line can enhance or detract.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

That was correct though you used some single pronunciations where two are possible. I do that all the time. Like "desire". It could be three, but I have always used two syllables in the pronunciation.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I've lost/ desire /to write /of joy /or fear,
and late/ly found/ all oth/ers' id/eas drear.
Perhaps/ this shop/ will help/ me find/ some bliss
and some/how write/ less bor/ing stuff/ than this.

and read it like this

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0kmtWhzvRth

meter done well sounds natural, not forced. This is a good example of natural feeling meter.

Did you know a lot of what we say in normal speech is in Iambic?

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

Rhythm and metre (meter across the pond)
As I understand it rhythm describes the flow, as in tides and all sorts of other natural occurrences (heartbeats for instance). These can be thought of as oscillations. Meter is strictly the flow of a word pattern. Oh, I suppose I should contribute a quatrain.
Once upon a time love caught me out,
oh dear I didn’t start this very well
but I don’t know what is this all about,
so where’s the simple story I can tell.

Keith Logan
the happy chappy
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

Let's hear more of your personal comments. You are a moderator after all.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

The first verse doesn't work. The second is iambic. The third line is tetrameter (four feet, not five). The last uses Dactyl and then a pyrrhic perhaps (we'll get to that). Try again and listen to it out loud.

sweet mu - sic will / play and I'll feel / whole. See my problem? 

A pyrrihic is two unstressed syllables together. It's almost impossible in English as something will grab the stress. As in "I'll". It's a difficult verse.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

retried

Face ME/think QUICK./just WOW/for NOW/what NEXT?

IAMBIC, single syllable- Pentameter,five feet

Any good?/better /or as silly!

I am okay with my FREER....worse read V.

forgive my insults, please.
This is an instant where context can change stress. If you were saying Face me as an order Face would be stressed, if you were talking to several people and wanted one persons attention Me would be stressed. The rest is good Iambic.
Good on you lovedly!
Here is my recording
https://soundcloud.com/neopoet/lovedly-iambic

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

me
as a request to not many but one
jess

I don't mind your kicks
they are doled out with love
years have passed
and you know
I know
no need to guess

The context must be known before it works, but I don't have a problem with that. A good verse. Now try two.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I'm (as always) in a hurry. Let's hear it Barbara.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

da DUM da DUM da DUM da DUM da DUM
like a heartbeat.
Google some examples.
When you have that beat in your head let a poem come. Silly or serious, doesn't matter.
When you hear the beat the words will follow. without taking anything from you.

I promise.

That is something I do not say lightly. Whether you think I'm a bastard or whatever, if you let the rhythm in the words will be right.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

Vocaroo is preferred because it is free and non-archival so your mistakes will go away shortly after the end of the workshop. SoundCloud is also free but having limited space I will only post polished poems on the Neopoet page there. Post as much as you want if you join under your own name.
Got any problems talk to me. If you are using a phone, tablet or laptop the microphone is built in. If you are using a desktop computer any microphone can plug in but a mike/headphone is the best solution.

Don't worry about a thing! Sound is not necessary, Wesley will guide you through everything. Sound is just a useful optional extra. If you have problems please message me directly rather than clutter up the thread, ok?

Over to you, Wesley.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

click 'Allow'. It's safe.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

From my copy of the Chambers Dictionary dated 1993.
In two or more words identity of sound from the last stressed vowel to the end, the consonant or consonant group not being the same in both or all cases.
eg.1 man, began, rattan. or tin, sin, begin.
eg 2 the ginger cat
sat on the mat.

The second example is of a rhyming couplet. One of the most common forms in poetry. Short lines like these are often used in children’s poetry, or to impart a feeling of haste to the reader. The most common form, the one that is closest to everyday speach has ten individual beats in five double stresses, la LA, la LA, la LA, la LA, la LA.

It came to me that what I saw was real
It came/ to me/ that what/ I saw/ was real.

The form, la, LA is called an iamb (pronounced I am) and the fact that there are five to the line makes it iambic pentameter.

Now for a couplet in iambic pentameter.
A lady came along who knew me well,
there’s nothing more to this I dare to tell.
and another
A dragon flicked it’s head and fluttered flame,
hot-footed knight now wished he never came.

These couplets are in effect complete stories in miniature.
Couplets are often used at the end of longer poems as a summation.
Shakespeare used them at the ends of scenes as a signal to the audience.

Keith Logan
the happy chappy
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

Do not/ attempt/ to kill / the king /alone

Your has/-ti-ness/ will on/-ly leads/ to death.

Must I/ re-peat/ our plan / a-gain/ you fool?

I swear/ you'll be/ the end/of me/one day!

I think it's time to move on.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I tried/ you cried / then smiled/ loved one/ not bad

I smiled /you tried/idiot you/do try./will you

Snowman will this now do?/

Trochee is simple enough. Trochaic, like Iamb, is known as duple meter because each foot contains two syllables.

It is simply the opposite of Iamb. From the Greek it is known as "running".

Instead of an unaccented syllable followed by an accented syllable, it is an accented syllable followed by an unaccented one.

Example:

"Round a- / bout the / caul- / dron go;

in the / poi -son'd / en -trails / throw.

Toad, that / un -der / cold stone 

days and / nights has / thir -ty / one

swelt -'red / ve -nom / sleep -ing / got,

boil thou / first i' / th' charmed / pot."    (Shakespeare)

 

"Think thou first before you write it.

Make it work the oppositic."    (me)

 

You will notice in Shakespeare's many lines that do not finish. This is known as "catalectic" and is quite common in both Iamb and Trochee. "Toad, that under cold stone". Don't panic. Trochee will do that often and it is wholly acceptable.

Be careful though. Done too easily it will cause an unaccented syllable to begin the next line turning into Iamb. This is known as "Anacrusis". It works, but don't let it control the poem.

Again, the exercise is simple. Four verse of Trochee. A quatrain. It need not rhyme and in this instance terameter (four feet per verse) will be fine. Keep catalectic lines to a minimum. 

 

Also, the Elf has requested that we mark our entries in the box for this workshop as it would seem we are automaticlly posting to the Stream. 

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

It would be tum ta tum ta...rather than ta tum ta tum. I seem to process better when i think of it in terms of rhythem

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Now the poem and post it to the Stream.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

It has been a rough few days and I apologize for the absence, I am back now and will post soon.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

In your example -"Round a- / bout the / caul- / dron go;

there's no stressed part in the 3rd foot. Is that what you mean by "Anacrusis"?

Alid

 

on Wes's part Alid

The scansion is actually
ROUND a | BOUT the | CAULD -ron | GO

Love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

I hate advanced formatting. It takes too much work on my computer. Glitches.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

My take
- ROUND/ ab OUT/ the CAULD/ ron GO
where a beat is missed at the start for emphasis.

Keith Logan
the happy chappy
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

it can't/ be this/ hard to/ retain/ meter

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* Amqerican Version of Japanese Poetry ~American Renga~ Free Verse, Western, Modern, etc ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka, Renga All Neopoets are welcome to join the Collaborative Poetry Writing fun.

Too much of what you scan is separated by syllable only and not stress. Listen to yourself. da - DUM. Then separate the foot. Try but one single line. One only and we will scan it extensively.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

it can't / be this / hard to / re- tain / me -ter. 

Do you see how you change through your verse? "Meter" accents on the first syllable making it Trochee. Listen to each word separatedly and you will find it and how it fails or works. Your verse combines both Iamb and Trochee which do not blend. Most of it can work though if you change "meter". 

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I see I'm still tone deaf
Hearing aid wouldn't help me lol. What I wrote is all I can here.

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* Amqerican Version of Japanese Poetry ~American Renga~ Free Verse, Western, Modern, etc ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka, Renga All Neopoets are welcome to join the Collaborative Poetry Writing fun.

Don't give up yet.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Not sure where to post.
Do we carry on posting here, in this thread?
Or do we post to the submit a poem tab and click the workshop box?

------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

post here, jane

Alid

as Jess has requested. I prefer to stay here, but will bow to sensible pressure. The thread will grow too long.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Rise and/ hunt them/ down, my/ lo-yal/ spawn-ling!

Crush them!/Send them/run-ning/into/ dark-ness! 

Death a/waits the/ fools who/dare to/face us 

Let them/trem-ble,/ haunted/ by our /might

Nuff said.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I tend to stay in the thread, but the Elf wants the examples placed on the Stream and marked. For now let us try it his way. When you have something you think works, post it to the Stream and I will do my level best to find it, but I have been gone so long I'm not sure I can pull it off. I will try. The simplest of experiments leave here and we will go over them.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

At the top of every workshop page, on the right hand side , in the fourth box down are listed the poems in that workshop that have been submitted to the stream...
All you need to do is click on the links...

-go check it out on your narrative shop....

Love judy
xxx
.

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

but I am handicapped with the ins and outs of the site.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Never have I ever tried it,
Trochee seems so very hard for me.
Hope I'm doing well enough now.
I'll do better on another.

Well written disclaimer but hardly the real truth.
PS: You appear to have exactly the same shade of eyes as my father. Sometimes they appeared blue, other times grey. Sorry, Shouldn't get personal.

Keith Logan
the happy chappy
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

I don't feel comfortable yet with trochee so I can't claim to have mastered it. Also, you're right about my eyes. No need to apologize.

the word "Trochee" is actually Iambic, so it throws your meter off. The rest is fine.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Are you sure? The dictionary says it is pronounced [TROH-kee] with the stress on the first syllable. Maybe I am misunderstanding.

My poetry dictionary puts the stress on the second syllable.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Perhaps it is a difference in dialect. Maybe one dictionary gives the standard pronunciation for British English and the other American English? I don't know. Just an idea.

Sing to me a song of summer

tell me tales of lazy days.

Brighten up a winter’s evening

Dreaming of those golden rays

On verses two and four, I have missed off the unstressed syllable at the end.

 

Here is my voice recording

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0ILO0FsfP41

------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

.

------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

do not effect the overall rhythm. Beautiful subject and equally beautiful presentation.

Keith Logan
the happy chappy
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

Catalectic it is, but that doesn't harm the meter. It is so common in Trochee as to almost be second nature. Take care not to let it throw you into iamb.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

is "enjambment". It is the continuation of a thought pattern from the end of one verse to the next. You did it throughout your poem and I applaud it. Nothing wrong with the meter.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Come to me and bring me joy,
love me now as only you can do.
Help my heart to thus employ
vital beats that lead me home to you.

Keith Logan
the happy chappy
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

Catalectic in a very even pattern and a lovely example.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I am
Just a piece of driftwood floating
through the seas - erosive, tranquil,
practicing the art of noting,
savouring each gifted sample.

Love judy
xx
.

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

it even has an intro (that sounds like quite a different beat).

Keith Logan
the happy chappy
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

You've had this figured out for a long time. I look forward to your Anapest.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
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author comment

You really need to read some strongly metered verse to develop the 'ear'. It really is mostly based in natural pronunciation rather than context.
Longfellow is great, he can drive you nuts, you will think in meter for weeks after reading him.
Google examples of the meters Wesley is teaching us. Read them extensively. Till you get that 'ear' you won't be able to write it except in a forced, constrained way.

The most important thing I can possibly say here is that learning meter extends your poetic abilities, it does not constrain them.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

Read.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

Enjambment can often make things much easier.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

but correctly done.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

When I was thinking of examples of trochee, I noticed that instructions and directions seem to fall naturally into this metre.
Bring me
Do it
Whisper
shout out
and a million other examples.
Action words also often seem to have a strong accent first.

------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

Continuing on is the challenge. You are right in your supposition.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

Iambic suits emotion, Trochee suit marching orders, Anapestic great for comic verse, Dactylic
suits ballads. These are not strict rules but if you read poets who bothered to really learn their craft you will see them at work.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

Time to retire for the night and listen to Nana Mouskouri belting out some Greek songs.

Keith Logan
the happy chappy
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

Trochee is not so hard is it?

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

The easy part is reading other poets who adhere to certain metric forms. The hard part is not getting addicted.

If any of you trust me at all, trust me on this. Study meter and your poetry will blossom.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

To begin with, you follow the instructions to the letter, then as you become familiar and confident with it, you drive by instinct, and use what you've learnt without thinking, creating your own style.

------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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Are we supposed to put the iambic and trochee we've done here onto the stream?
xxx
.

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

If you can't, learn.
Hear it in your head.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

Wonderful things occur in their own time,
what is it then appears to be a crime?
Why oh why should I be hanging onto
promises so patently untrue?

Keith Logan
the happy chappy
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

Some refer to it as "parsing".

The term is from the Latin for "the act of climbing".

It is the marking of a poem to indicate its metrical structure.

We use it to separate "feet" and mark stresses. There are hundreds of ways to do this. We can use lower case lettering to indicate an unstressed syllable and upper case for a stressed syllable. Here in Advanced Formatting I use unbold lettering for an unstressed syllable and bold for a stressed syllable. Thus:

"Shall I / com-pare / thee to / sum - / mer's day?"

The back slashes indicate the different feet. Thus this is "scanned" as iambic pentameter. There are five separate feet in the verse.

If our format allowed it we could use accent marks above a stressed syllable and a small "u" above an unstressed syllable.

There are other ways as well. The point is that it allows us to actually mark a poem for "feet", stresses and non stresses. In this workshop it is not necessary to scan your poetry, but it is a good skill to develop for another time. Perhaps a small workshop on nothing but scansion.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

Anapest.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

Mine's ready....
When can I post?

Lol I know I have to wait until you tell us what anapaest is, but I'm an impatient cookie
xxx
.

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

Please I will like to join the workshop.
Add me.

Christiano, the course has already started, but if you can do the catch up then I'm sure that will be fine.
We are looking at metre in poetry.
First you need to write a quatrain in iambic pentameter Look through the earlier part of this thread to find examples and then post your own.
Then you need to look at trochee and write another 4 verses ( lines) of trochee in terameter.
If you read through what's already written then you should be able to pick up and follow on.
Cheers Jane
Ps I have added your name to the course list.
If you post your course work, post it to the stream under the submit a poem tab. But at the bottom of the page you will find a workshop tab. Click on that. This is just for workshop work., not your other works.

------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

Without a home comp I've fallen too far behind in shop to catch up. Still awaiting tech support to set up something called a "hot spot" at home. I fear I'm slowing things down and thus must reluctantly withdraw as an official shop member. I hope ya'll won't mind if I still drop in later when I am set up to do so.................stan

Hi, I'm sot sure how the workshop works. Let me offer a sonnet, and tell me where we go from here.

SONNET TO FISH
(transgression - the spreading of the sea over land as evidenced by the deposition of marine strata over terrestrial strata)

What do you think about all day and all night,
In a rush to get somewhere in the open seas?
A thousand shapes in a panic of flight,
And sooner or later to be taken and eaten.
At the market we learn which to grill or to fry;
Octopus, squid and hammerhead sharks,
Species stacked up head to head, eye to eye,
By the hundreds as rainbow colored corpses
In crates like ice packed ears of corn;
Each wears the same stunned expression,
As the moment they were suddenly torn
To end up here in the final transgression.
So what was the rush, the thrill, the cheer?
Just thinking, over fish & chips and a beer.

Eumolpus
I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing
than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance
ee cummings

its better if you start with 4 verse with scansion.It will be easier for both the mentor and the others to see the stressed words.

The first exercise is to write 4 verses in iambic pentameter with scansion.

Do not/ attempt/ to kill / the king /alone!

Your has/-ti-ness/ will on/-ly leads/ to death.

Must I/ re-peat/ our plan / a-gain/ you fool?

I swear/ you'll be/ the end/of me/one day!

 

Alid

Hi there.
So far in the workshop we have looked at examples of iamb and trochee.
We had to write a quatrain of iambic pentameter and then another 4 verses of trochee in terameter.
If you look back through the course you can see our examples. To post yours, rather than clutter the thread up further, post to the stream. Use the submit a poem option, but as you are on the course, you will see a workshop box at the bottom of the page. Click this option, it will go on the stream, but will also be available under the workshop submissions.
Sooooo, if you can get those done and then turn your mind to anapest. Quite what we're doing with anapest Wesley hasn't yet said.
Cheers Jane

------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

Is in the stream......

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Greek for "beaten back".
It is a foot consisting of two unstressed syllables followed by a stressed syllable.
Single words can be anapestic such as "unaware". Beware though that secondary syllables can often steal too much stress changing the meter. It requires the context of a poetic verse.

Phrases can also be anapestic such as "in the house".
However, the same tendency can exist causing an unintentional stress in the second syllable.

Example:
"Twas the night before Christmas and all through the house."
Anapest is called triple meter as there are three syllables each foot.
Iamb and anapest work well together, but for the purpose of the workshop I would like everyone to write in strict anapest. A difficult task.

Try a quatrain, but if a poet can produce two verse of anapest that is true anapest I will be thrilled. Post your entries to the Stream as a poem and don't forget to mark the bubble at the bottom that says it's for the workshop. This puts it in "Submissions" and makes it easy to find.

Questions should be posted here.
Good luck.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

You have greater ability than you are aware of.

Keith Logan
the happy chappy
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

I was told some five decades ago that failure is the way we learn. If we get something right first time it is easy to forget but if we fail, then the lesson of how to come back from the failure stays for life.

Keith Logan
the happy chappy
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

"Just flew in" for a visit and a testing try at your first piece:-

I have / always /wanted / a little / moment
In haste / I lost / you there / without / any trust
My love / of you / became / distant / untried
I reach /ed out / c ling / ing to / a hope
Fading / into /oblivion / losing / my heart

I am not good at correct form but have tried.

Oh Rhyme without form:-

Just a moment with you a while ago
Made my heart flip as I loved you so
There in a moment of joining your life
I wanted you to become my wife
But destiny intervened causing me strife.

Just a quick write as time is my enemy
The fact that there is no time other than now.
Gives me such a freedom,
I prefer the structured write this time..
Yours Ian.

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

Posted to stream

------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

You have found it!

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

my Anapest to the stream.

Somehow I thought Anapest would bring the shop to a crashing halt and yet I have seen a slew of marvelous examples. Who are all of you and what have you done with the others?

I see no reason not to move on to Dactyl and will do so tomorrow.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I find Anapest and Dactyl far more natural to write in than the other formats. Iamb is perhaps easier because we use it so much, but Anapest and Dactyl have a greater sense of "music" to them.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Always busy weekends... sorry
Here is my anapest ex.

https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/poems/poet-anapest-ex

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
www.instgram.com/rularules1

some are highly addictive.
I've got to hand it to Wesley. Every time I've tried to run meter workshops I've gone spare and lost it. My sincere appreciation to Wesley, he is doing a fucking amazing job.

What I offer now is help in hearing your poetry out loud. That is the bottom line for all poetry and meter to me, the spoken word. If you are having difficulty recording your work, contact me. Remember you might want to read it aloud to people one day.

Also let me know if I have missed a recording you have posted.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

I don't know that this is one of my best workshops as I feel rather out of touch with NeoPoet reality from being gone so very long, but I'm giving it my best.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I think everyone is enjoying it and learning from it, so all good.
Jx

------------
Remember we are a workshop site.
Don't forget to offer critique on poems you read.

From the Greek meaning "finger".

As Mark remarked (get it?) Dactyl is the opposite of Anapest. Instead of two unstressed syllables followed by a stressed, we begin the poetic foot with a stressed syllable and follow with two unstressed syllables.

"Harmony", "bigamist" and "precipice" are all Dactylic multi syllabic words.

The danger here is that the third syllable in a Dactylic foot has a tendency to suffer a secondary stress which can favor Iamb. Something to watch out for particularly when using multi syllabic words.

My favorite example of Dactyl (a grand poem indeed):

"Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward.
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
'Forward the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns!' he said.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred."

If one will notice, Tennyson's verse seems to positively run away with the rhythm as Dactyl will do.
The impetus can become so powerful that sometimes important words are trampled while relatively simple ones will receive the stress.

To avoid this the poet can do something we have yet to touch upon yet. That is the use of Trochee in the midst of a Dactylic foot. Trochee and Dactyl CAN go hand in hand as Iamb and Anapest will (the opposite is untrue... do not use Trochee with Anapest and vice versa. In short you'll have a ghastly mess).

Since there was such success with Anapest I am going to up the ante a bit and ask that the Dactylic exercises be written as Alexandrines (hexameter... in other words six poetic feet per verse). As I am not by nature a cruel mortal I will ask for only two verse of "Alexandrines".

For the purpose of the workshop, as always, try to limit your verse to true Dactyl without the use of Trochee.
Again, they needn't rhyme. Virgil, Ovid and Juvenal all wrote in Dactyl for the most part as it lends itself very well to "epic poetry".

I'm expecting a great deal of success.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

As usual you have far exceeded your own expectations about how well a shop of yours will go.....but not mine. You know about as much about the technical aspects of poetry as anybody I know. Keep up the good work............stan

Right now I need the encouragement.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Pyrrhic, Spondee and Amphibrach.

These are seldom deliberately used, but appear regularly in our poetry.

Pyrrhic is known generally as a foot used in a war dance (I don't make this stuff up). It is two unstressed syllables in a separate foot. Usually though English won't let this happen. One or the other tends to grab an accent. I see it often in your examples and it usually creates an iambic form. This is risky as it can utterly destroy an Anapestic or Dactylic format. Beware it.

Spondee is two stressed syllables in a row. This tends to do the same thing. Be careful.

Amphibrach is from the Greek for "short at each end" which describes it perfectly. It consists of a stressed syllable surrounded by two unstressed. This also will tend to lead to another format entirely. Usually Iambic. Watch out.

Gotta go. More later.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I am not very happy with this workshop. I am a better teacher than what I have presented. Still, I have seen some marvelous poetry given to me and that is pleasing.

Whatever monster has hold of me is gripping tightly and it has produced what I consider a very poor workshop. I'm not giving up, but I needed to say how sorry I am to let so many of you down.

This will be my close for now. Those who have participated have shown me they understand the simple concepts presented and I am glad for it more than I can describe.

Thank you for putting up with me as I struggle with this "writer's block".

If any of you are bored, please join me over in "Storytelling in Verse (sempiternal). I am going to write a story in verse if it takes my life and would love for others to attempt the same. If I am alone I will still write and would like your thoughts whatever they may be.
Thank you for sticking with me as I struggle.

Iamb, Trochee, Anapest and Dactyl. You understood. Thank you.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

As I have said... I am disappointed in the workshop, but when you are seriously ready to write your sonnet... I am here and anxious to help.

Let me invite you (and everyone else on board) to check out "Storytelling in Verse (sempiternal)". It is an old workshop in which some outrageous things have been done. It has been dormant for more than a year due to my absence, but I am going to write a short story in verse on the workshop and would welcome your critique. You needn't "join", just show up at the end of the incredibly long thread and offer what you will. Perhaps you will be moved to try a story in verse. We're rather informal there... no lists of exercises. Just rough drafts of stories and critique.

Please at the very least check it out.

Rula this especially means you. Come see. Judy is there and Jess (in his way).

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

anywhere you like. I will be only too happy to be of any assistance I can. I am sure Wesley feels the same.

Keith Logan
the happy chappy
https://www.neopoet.com/community-guidelines

I've never run a meter workshop half as good as this one.

Apart from the occasional narcissist we all have great big sticks we use on ourselves.
Drop yours and give yourself a break.

You are better than you think you are and this workshop has been the best meter workshop ever.
You know I don't piss in pockets.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

but I finally did my job as Sound Tech and recorded readings of most of the works.
I hope they help you understand the sound and functions of the different meters, or at lest liked hearing them.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

on the poems and exercise, hope they help.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

and Wesley's are absolutely appreciated.
Thank you.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
www.instgram.com/rularules1

You are still one of the most dedicated Neopoet members.

What can I say but ta?
I know it's true.
I give but Neopoet has given me more than I can say.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

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