About workshops

Workshops on Neopoet are groups that meet for a certain period of time to focus on a certain aspect of poetry. Each workshop participant is asked to critique all the other poems submitted into a workshop. A workshop leader helps coordinate -- they set the agenda, give participants feedback on whether their submissions and critique are at they level expected of them, and after the workshop is over, give feedback to participants. 

To join a workshop, first find one that is of interest to you. Once you have found the right workshop (and verified that it is open -- you can find this out in the description below), you can apply to join the workshop.


Join the Neopoet online poetry workshop and community to improve as a writer, meet fellow poets, and showcase your work. Sign up, submit your poetry, and get started.

The Bottom Line

Status: 
Program description/goal: 

Description: An exercise in the four basic meter structures with discussion of some of the more esoteric. This will be Meter 101 open to all of the pools. We will again explore iamb, trochee, anapest and dactyl in some detail while holding discussions on spondees, pyrrhics, amphibrachs and more. Participants will work chiefly with quatrains of various meters in tetrameter and pentameter (to be discussed) as well as shorter lines to Alexandrines. Each week will concern itself with one of the basic meter forms while the fifth and last week will be open discussion on the less common meters.

Leader: Wesley Snow
Moderator(s): Rula

Objectives: It is hoped the participants will re-explore their understanding of iamb and trochee while experimenting with the lesser used anapest and dactyl meters. The last exercise will be to write a poem in what should be the poet's most difficult meter and succeed in producing a poem of worth.

Level of expertise: Open to all

Subject matter: Meter. 1) The rhythmic measure of a line of verse. 2) The regular measure that a group of lines have in common, despite variations. 3) The way of measuring certain poems that are written in verse or lines (rather than in prose). (The Poetry Dictionary. Drury)

Length: 
37 days
Number of participants (limit): 
10 people
Skill level: 
Date: 
Monday, September 9, 2013 to Wednesday, October 16, 2013
Short description: 
This workshop is open to all levels. The concepts we will discuss will be technical in the hopes of producing art. However, those who wish to produce art in this shop need to know they must bring a wrench as we will be dealing with nuts and bolts.

Comments

A worshop on my nemisis....meter. I guess one doesn't grow without doing the things which are difficult for him/her. So count me in although I might be a few days late in getting started...............stan

You are in and the most welcome Stan...

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Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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I've managed to crush my own egocentric view of my work as high quality so that leaves me in a good place to learn. I would love to join, if I may.

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

You're one of the finest poets here.
It's a real pleasure that you join us in this work shop.
Thank you for joining.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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I appreciate your kind words. I have unfortunately (or fortunately) taken myself down several notches and am going to have to earn the self respect regarding my writing back. It seems soul-less to me now. My writing and I have a love-hate relationship. Thanks for letting me join!

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

I think that lately you're either becoming too humble or too harsh on yourself and your poetry...or both :)

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Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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May I?

Scott

Our pleasure ..
You're in. I shall add you immediately.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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I'd like to join I have no experience w meters or even knowing the
Diffrerent types

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

You're in dear

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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thank you! I'm looking forward to being educated on meter

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

Waiting for Wesley to join, I hope you dear friends don't mind me leading this workshop as I hate to keep everyone waiting. So, I think we can start with few things to make sure that we ( I and you )- as I am also going to learn from each of you, have the right basics we need to build on. Some terminology will be indispensable, however, this will come on a later stage.

So, as a start, it would be great if you tell what is your understanding of the word METER in poetry.

 This shouldn't take too much time as we really need to practice few things rather than talking. Knowing that we have different timing zones, I shall come back with new exercise/discussion on this same time tomorrow. Of couse, I will be here checking every few hours. 

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Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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Honestly Im really not educated on meter so I do what
I always do when stumped on the meaning of a word
I look up the definition in the dictionary! No, no google search here
{not saying anything wrong with google, my wife lives by it}
I am a pen and paper kind of girl
dictionary is one of the books on my bedside table
the other is a college textbook in psychology
Abnormal Psychology in a Changing World

I apologize, completely off subject but the definition
is
a.] Poetic measure; arrangement of words in
regularly measured, patterned, or rhythmic lines in verse

b.] a particular form of such arrangement, depending on
either the kind or the number of feet constituting the verse
or both rhythmic kind and number of feet

to me it seems like basically a flow, but a measured flow
based on which type of meter one is using?
I may seem a little, um, dumb and fully admit
that at the moment, yes, completely and fully
but that's why im here .. to learn and expand
my knowledge on the subject
and appreciate the patience ya'll have with me
I lost mine a really long time ago
it was kidnapped by baby polar bears and
I really suspect they have built it an ice dungeon where
they actually poke it with a cow prod

But that's just a suspicion so far

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

Thanks for sharing. Please note that everyone's input is appreciated. Each can add something new, so never underestimate what you are bringing to the others.
Let's wait to see if others have anything to add before we continue.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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Perhaps a simpler definition would be that meter is the "beat" one hears when rhyming or blank verse poetry is heard. The different types of meter might be defined as the number of beats (or half beats) in each line. I know this is pretty simplistic but maybe it will do for a start...........stan

you're right indeed. The "beats" or the "stressed /Accented/Long syllable " Usually referred to on the net with a (/) or simply a (') Whereas the unstressed/Unaccented/short syllable is referred to as (X) or (U) make one important componant of the meter.
Different languages have different syllabic systems.We don't speak in a monotone. We have natural rises and falls.                                                                                   

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Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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of any other component(s) that might affect the meter other than the stress?

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Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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I hope I am not wasting everyone's time. I was looking for answers to prevent writing walls describing what Meter is. However getting no answers, I'll try to be brief and right to the point.(please stop me where I am not clear or when I carry on with things that are not well understood or difficult)as it is really inevitable to understand each point before building on.

 I believe a quick search on the net would tell you that Meter is simply the tool that makes the difference between prose and poetry.

Three things would determine your meter:
1. The number of syllables OR SYLLABIC
2. The duration of syllables OR QUANTITATIVE
and
3. The number of the stressed syllables OR ACCENTUAL

So, in short what any poet would do when when writing a poem is to count the syllables, the stresses in these syllables and to sort them in a certain pattern or patterns.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            

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Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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let me know how clear/ unclear that was to everyone.

If everything is clear, our next point will be to know what do we mean by syllables and recognizing when   the syllables are stressed or unstressed. 

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Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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Now we come to the real problem.The problem with parsing and trying to figure out which syllable(s) are stresssed depends on where you are from. So if one wants to be precise I guess the only way to be certain is to consult a dictionary. But doing that kinda tends to make us all sound the same and how blah would that be?

Now in my opinion counting syllables is a last resort. A person can usually tell if a poem is written correctly by listening to it. Odds are a poem which sounds right IS right.............stan

I know what you're talking about. Many things of course affect the placement of the stressed syllable, such as: the context and the placement of the word(s) among the other words and of course the accent. Of course it never hurts to have the dictionary as a reference, but most of the time, the majority will agree on which is stressed and which is not if they give their ears a chance to hear it aloud. However, I don't want to jump to this before making sure that all are familier with the syllabic system in English.

As an example, I'll take here the names of the months and try to find how many syllable(s) is/are in each. Remember, we are not talking here about any stress, just the SYLLABLES. I know that some are well aware of this, but I want to make sure that we are all standing on the same ground before moving on . So please bear with me, will you?

Try to say the following words aloud and slowly notice where you can cut the word into bits
For example January  is (four syllables). Jan/u/a/ry
February.................... is also (four)         Feb/ru/a/ry
March ...........................is only (one)         March
April.............................. is (two)                 Ap/ril
May...............................(One)                   May
June..............................(One)                   June
July................................(One)                  July

and so on, you see that each vowel sound makes a bit in the word. Each VOWEL SOUND not only vowel

for example the word BEAUTIFUL  has five vowels (e, a, u, i, and u) but it is only three syllables
bea/ti/ful
Now try as an ex. to go through the rest of the months, names of the days, or even choose any random words and let me know how that went. If this is clear, we shall move to talk more about the stressed  syllables.
Wesley will join us later this night (my eastern zone timing) In Sha'a Allah, that is if God wishes but I'd like to know if I have satisfied my part of my first workshop. Everyone's participation counts.  

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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stan whispers quietly that July has 2 syllables...........

domination has 4 syllables
I was taught to tell how many put your hand lightly
on your chin and say word
each time your chin pushes ur hand down is a syllable

if that helps anybody

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

Stan and Precious. I think that was the easy part of the shop ha?

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Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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that one-syllable Verbs, Nouns, Adjectives and Adverbs have the stress on the WHOLE word.
Whereas
the articles (a/an/the/ and the)
the prepositions (in/on/at/)
the pronouns(I/he/she/it/they/we/you),
the auxiliary verbs is/was/are/were/shall/will/must/might
and
the different forms of verb to be (is/am/are/were/was/been)are NOT accented/ NOT stressed. 

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Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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Words that come in combination such as turn off/ put on/ lift up  the stress is usually placed on the second part

turn off
put on
lift up
and so on.. 

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Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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Sometimes we put an exceptional emphasis on function words or pronouns, there we can make them stressed

e.g. They did have lunch on time 

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Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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Especially concerning prepositions, however I am as guilty as the next poet of using these words as stressed. When one is writing a poem of some 24,000 lines one tends to break the rules.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

First of all, let me apologize for my tardiness. I will likely explain in time, but I am not here to discuss my personal woes. I am here to consider meter.

Second, I must profusely thank Rula for covering in my absence. She has been a very special project of mine for some time now and though I cannot in good conscience take credit for all of her growth, I am immensely pleased with the poet she has become. Educated, imaginative and emotional, she is a testament to what may be accomplished in an environment such as NeoPoet.

Thank you my dear friend.

Let me begin with a statement of intent then and following, a small discourse on rhythm and meter.

I have previously advertised this workshop as Meter 101. More correctly it should be termed “intermediate”. We will be working with quatrains (a poem of four lines), rhymed or otherwise, generally a new one each week depending on the speed of production.

We will utilize the four most common forms of meter, being Iamb, Trochee, Anapest and Dactyl. As we progress I will be asking you to attempt to make use of also the Spondee, the Phyrric and the Amphibrach (fear not, this will all be extensively explained from the ground floor on up).

Other metric forms will be explained, but not necessarily used.

Allow me to take a moment and explain the difference between what I will call “Real Poetry” and “Workshop Poetry”.

If any would take a moment and read some of my smaller poems, one would discover a nigh mechanical perfection in the meter. This is not necessarily a good thing. It is my style, but not universally desirable.

As I will discuss in a moment, rhythm and meter are not the same thing. As Stan will tell us numerous times throughout the shop (and I agree), it is the flow and ebb of language that creates the music of poetry. Meter is a manner in which we may DESCRIBE what we have written.

However, for the purposes of learning in this workshop, I will INSIST on an attempt at metrical perfection. As a martial artist practices perfect form in his/her Kata before going into the street to “loosen” up and fight, we will be exercising “form”. Mechanical, machine like form. In this way we may learn and later “fight poetically”.

I will leave this for a moment and when I return I will offer a conversation concerning the difference between rhythm and meter.

Thank you for joining me for this adventure. I look forward to it.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I thought meter and rhythm are synonyms, but while preparing for this workshop, I found that rhythm is more general. It describes both the syllabic and accentual systems, while meter cares more of sorting those two (syllables and stresses) in repeated pattern(s), hence come the names 'monometer' (one foot of two syllables), tetrameter (four feet of eight syllables)... etc.Is that right?

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Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
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You have two subjects, so let me address the easy one first. I hope everyone is reading because this is central to what we will be talking about.

First off, Monometer consists of but one syllable- an accented one. It is strictly impossible to speak or write a single syllable without accenting it. Technically speaking any metric foot consists of but one syllable- again, an accented one and then it is "accompanied" by one, two or three unaccented syllables. The number and placement of these unaccented syllables will determine the nature of our metric foot.

Example:

HALT!

This is Monometer. A single accented syllable. As far as I know, a single monometric syllable does not have a name (i.e. iamb, trochee). If you wanted to research this it would be a worthy assignment.

HALT, fool!

This is Dimeter. Two syllables. It could be Trochee (an accented syllable followed by an unaccented syllable) or Spondee (two accented syllables). This would depend on how it is pronounced. Remember, "meter" is not determining what we write, but describing the "rhythm" of what we have written. It is therefore quite relative to things like context and personality (of the poet and the reader).

HALT, you / FOOL!

This is Trimeter. At this point our sentence structure is large enough that we've pretty much guaranteed it is Trochee, but if Trochee is a two syllable foot then we obviously have an extra syllable at the end. This is known as "Catalexis or Catalectic" (also sometimes called "truncation"). It is not the "extra" accented syllable, but rather the omission of the following unaccented syllable.

All of this could be termed "semantics" (the study of meaning, also called "significs"), but that is the point of this entire workshop. To understand "the meaning" of all these ridiculous terms and be able to apply them.

Now, your other subject. It is perhaps easiest to determine the difference between rhythm and meter in this way.

Rhythm is.
"No HTML tags allowed."
That is directly below me at this point, so I used it. It is function personified, but it has rhythm. Ugly, unpoetic, but rhythmic. All writing, all speech has "rhythm". It is what exists when we use language. It is ethereal and extremely subjective.
Relative to the writer and the reader, the time of day, the position of the stars (I wax poetic, but you get the point).

Meter is mechanical.
It is the methodology we use to "describe" rhythm. The better the poem, the easier it is to describe as the metric form is more consistent. The harder it is to apply a consistent meter to a poem, the more obvious it becomes that the poem is clumsy. Mixed metric forms means the verse stumbles and changes as it progresses.

Does this make sense?
Anyone? Everyone?
Let's have our conversation now please. Weigh in. I have much to cover and would like to move along at a fairly rapid pace.
Thank you Rula. Good points.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Rhythm is.
 "No HTML tags allowed." 

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Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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I used it as an example that "everything" has rhythm. Not always pretty, but...

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

going on here. It almost sounds as though this is a chat. Ah well, I'd like to join if I may. I will tune in tomorrow to see what has transpired! ~ Gee

Comments and critique are a vital part of our community!
Critique or comment today!

In a good shop the discussion part Should be almost like a chat but with a bit of lecture thrown in now and then.

Now to meter as opposed to rhythm....I'm gonna stick my unlearned neck out and say meter is the relation of syllabic sounds within a line of poetry while rhythm has more to do with the relationship of each line with another. Hence one can have 2 lines with different meter but if the 2 lines have the "right" variation they can still have good rhythm.
Now I'll sit back and let others explain how wrong I am lol..............stan

As soon as some others have thrown a word in or two, I will tell you how wrong you are. Oddly though, when you understand the relationship between meter and rhythm as it is understood by "the powers that be" and as I will explain it... you will find you have understood it better than most all along.
Moreover, it will explain in a nutshell what you have been discussing for quite some time.
You are closer to the truth than you know.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

... I would particularly like your participation. May I add you to the lists? You will have to write four quatrains and a slightly longer poem. That is all.

... of course their will be rules...

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

are in.
You're the most welcome.

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Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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You are easily the World's Grandest Moderator.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

But here is my prepared statement concerning Rhythm vs. Meter:

"Please listen carefully.

Rhythm is NOT Meter.

Meter is NOT Rhythm.

Although intrinsically related, they are NOT interchangeable as descriptive terms.

Meter is “the regular measure that a group of lines have in common despite variations and the way or ways of measuring certain poems that are written in verse or lines (rather than in prose).”
John Drury

In other words it is a manner in which the mechanical form of a poem may be described.

Rhythm is “the way sounds move against the flow of time. In language, rhythm is the melody of words together.”
John Drury

“Rhythm is older than speech; older than sound; older than the stars themselves. The Big Bang ushered it in. Rhythm is the heartbeat of the Universe.”
Willard R. Espy

All writing has rhythm. Being a temporal act, writing necessarily involves words moving with or against the flow of time. Rhythm is the rise and fall, the ebb and flow of words. It is the music in our poetry that we can hear.

Prose has rhythm. Whether elegant or ugly, rhythm is in every written or spoken phrase.

Meter however, is a set pattern of MEASUREMENT that is unique to poetry alone. Consider it a time signature coupled with lines of music that allows us to explain in a concise manner ethereal rhythm.

Meter is mechanical while rhythm is (for lack of a better term) spiritual. Rhythm is what we hear and feel, meter describes this sound and feeling.

This workshop will not deal with “rhythm”. Here we will address the purely mechanical essence of… meter.

When I return I will offer my first discussion on the basics of meter."

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

welcome on board

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Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
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Not sure if I'm going to stay the course...and frankly, mechanical patterning of poetry bores me. However, I was invited, so I'm going to pipe up before slinking off into the corner of the room.

Iambic Pentameter was often used by William Shakespeare in his poetry as it most resembles the natural flowing beat of spoken middle/late english. Iambs from the latin 'feet', pent from the latin for five and meter, obviously for the measured length. In other words, 5 pairs of linked 'feet' (stressed & unstressed syllables in a sentence.) In reality, the beat would be " de daar de daar de daar de daar de daar".

I can appreciate it when I feel it working...it 'pulses'. However, I've made a deliberate effort to try to not be conformist with my OWN poetry. I DON'T want to follow the strict mathematical/mechanical patterns, even though I'm aware of them. I sincerely believe that lexis/vocabulary/figurative language suffuses enough description of feeling in Freeform poetry. Wesley, forgive me, but your tone is still that of (to paraphrase)..."the best forms of poetry use meter"...I still get the sense of intellectual snobbery here. I simply do not agree.

I'm not wishing to be argumentative (even though you'd like me to be, I guess!)

<Backing away now to the furthest edges of room...preparing for Wesley to pontificate.>

I don't like to argue. I'm about as passive as they come. As I told Carrie... I'm a pussycat.

And to be honest, I do NOT think that strict metric poetry is best. As I mentioned in one of my comments, my poetry tends toward the stiff. Nigh perfect metric form and I don't consider it particularly desirable. It may be my "style", but I recognize that it limits me.
In the workshop I'm going to insist on strict, mechanical metric form for the purpose of understanding how it works. Rules are best bent or broken when fully understood.
Rhythm is the music of poetry and meter simply describes that rhythm. The better meter is understood, the easier it is for the poet to recognize why some things work and some do not.
I hope you actually participate.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I detected the same kind of bias in the announcements here and in other workshops where little snippets like: " I have given myself a task harder than most poets by choosing strict form" were thrown about. Sure being able to write mechanically precise form is a good thing, but I believe in the hands of artists, both formats work. I write both form and freeform, and for me the practice of forms is best for helping me exert more precision and creative control over my work in general. I admire the heavily metric forms, when Poe or Coleridge did them. I am almost sure that my best work will not come from strict, mechanical form, but I will certainly take every opportunity to learn and practice the strict forms. I think it's important not to shy away from new challenges, even if I do believe that in certain ways, rigid form can distract me from what I was meaning to say in a work. Still, It's best to be proficient in all morphologies of poetry.

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

I do understand the rules. I choose to not use them. Annoying, I know.

Ellie

Exploring new things is never easy but it's never difficult too. I think it doesn't hurt to explore new thing. Even free form can make use of meter so, be brave enough to accept the challange of meter. Shall I add your name, Betty :)?

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Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
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I am with Betty here I only try those meter forms and all the other forms of poetry that are deemed classic, as a challenge to see if I can write them.
As with Fibs and those that Jess asked us to try in that workshop, I find the sing song meter that is expressed by many as forced, where each line has to be the same.
I have been told off many times for not conforming, and not trying hard enough on workshops.
I have though taken on a few very hard types of poetry and have found that the number of comments on them has been very few, though these poems took a lot of thought.
What do we do in these cases, do we carry on and hope the system changes.
If I use a bad word as a title, which I shall call a comment catcher, things are a little better but not good.
Meter is excellent for song writing and classic poetry and to learn of it is good, it is a base for most poetry.
I usually put my poems as free verse though I use rhyme a lot but I shall persevere with this workshop as I did with Jess's Meter workshop so bear with me,
Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

See my comment to Betty above.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
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author comment

Thanks for the ref.
The pile of work you spoke of can we have it broken down.
There is a need to talk to everyone that takes part in the workshop.
Had I been trained in poetic correctness then I would understand more of what you talked about.
As it is I will have to look up most of what you have spoken of, and then try and sort out where we are in the scheme of things.
Your directives need to have a more simplistic approach, especially the meter words, list them and explain to all, then the picture will be clearer,
Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

I completely agree! I haven't even caught up yet
going over what ive missed and its
well shall I say its discouraging to me
at least, its a lot of mathematical sounding references
that elude me .. my wife tells me
when im backing up our 15 passenger van
that the ditch is 3ft away .. I tell her to give me some guidance not
more confusion lol
I am still continuing in hopes to understand
I write what comes out
if in a form yaay!
if not ok!

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

could you please be more specific so that I or Wesley would be able to help and clarify.
I am just hoping that all the participant would ask more and get involved in what Wesley is saying.
Raising questions always point out where the problems lie.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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I'm not quite sure
its just not "clicking in" to me ..
I thought perhaps its because I learn better
by reading writing seeing and doing it
but seeing it hasn't helped much
besides in elementary school and junior high
ive never wrote with any form or much thought
it just came out and was there without
thinking of what I was to write about or how I was
to write it
ill try harder to understand the lesson
but the mathematic references are jumbling
up what should be such a clear picture of what you both
are trying to create ..

Alone we shall find our ways into worlds of never imagined discoveries

on Wesley's and my quatrains. the scansion accompanied might help.
Tell me what you think.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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Take the three sentences I gave for everyone to scan and speak them aloud deliberately accenting each second syllable starting with the first two. It should sound appropriate, as though someone were simply speaking them in a conversation.
Then try the same thing with the sentence below.

"Off to bag a nye of pheasants- failing that, a hide;"

If you accent this as you did the three sentences it should sound ridiculous. The verse is in Trochee (the opposite of Iamb). This may help you make a distinction. Report back after you've tried it and tell me what you found to be true.

Then read the sentence above accenting every other syllable starting with the first one. It should then sound better.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

Every craft has its own vocabulary. As an example in carpentry one can say "a sloped structural member which supports a roof deck and roofing" or one can say "rafter". Poetry is the same way. So it might help to think of this as a vocabulary lesson in which we will be learning the language with which poets can describe their work. It is a shorthand way of describing something. And don't feel alone as I have a long way to go mastering meter myself..............stan

Off to bag a NYE
of pheasants-
failing that
a HIDE

Secret is the assonance...or the 'i' sound in the middle of NYE & HIDE

Nothing to do with meter.

Ells

I understand the rebelliousness against strict form, but there is clearly a cadence to this work that is separate from the assonance of the listed words and is clearly the effect of the Trochaic meter. As just a fellow traveler in this workshop, I urge you to take what you can get from it and leave the rest. Working with meter like this would fall under the heading of craft to me, which speaks to its possible dryness. Still, inspiration without craft is an incomplete package as well. Just my opinion....

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

... and when I figure out what it was again I will let you know. In other words, the line is not mine. Thanks Ron.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
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author comment

rhythm and meter, rhythm and meter...forget the rhythm, we're after the meter. I'll participate in any writing exercise if there's a chance I can improve upon what I have and don't have. LOL I'm a little late due to appointments at the Mayo in MN. Back at home and drug free enough to be a little less stupid. If space is still available, I sure would enjoy gettin' in on the good stuff. And by the way, let the instructors do what they do and as hard as it might be, students should be doing what students do. We all have various avenues of communication that can be used to discuss any "not seeing eye to eye" stuff. Let's operate under the SOP of "principles before personalities" which will help utillize our time and efforts more efficiently.

The best of metered western classic and the best of free form are Both a pleasure to read. If I understand the syllabus correctly the strick meter employed here will be a "primer" for later shop(s) where it will be shown that certain mixed meters also work. With this also covering rhythm it will be a great help in revealing how helpful meter can be in free form (as an example, one can use meter and/or rhyme here and there to emphasize certain lines). Hence this shop should be of use to Any poet regardless of his/her preferred form.............stan

Yes, 'Dad'

Gawd, Neo is getting so middle-aged!

Ells x

I wish I WAS still middle aged but I fear 59 is more like plain old. But seriously i began as and still prefer rhyming poetry. But I've found that by trying free form and other forms my preferred form has (I hope) improved. I expect that by expanding into a bit of metered stuff you will find you've become a better free form writer.
But ALL forms require effort in order to rise above mediocrity and isn't that what we all strive for?..........stan

No wonder I call you youngster sometimes. 59 I wish I could remember that far back lol.
You are so correct, in saying that to learn of correct form improves the overall poetic writing of any poet.
I seem to recheck my words more since being in the odd workshop, and I try most of the new things that arise in Neo such as Fib's and now this workshop, it is hard and means I have to find some dormant brain tissue to even have something to write on.
I have always watched your pieces and the way you use couplets and they suit you, but to me they would be time consuming but I would still try the odd one or two.
The classics are like red wine and they have matured over the years laying down a base for all poetry true to form. ( I love single Malt )
I wonder how many of the masters thought about the way they laid things out, the old English way of writing and talking was probably sing song, then the original writings were for religious books and they were all in verses.
Now us Rebels in the new ages can have the best of both worlds, as we meander like an old stream that reaches for the sea.
Go well young man and hurry up with your next task LOL
Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

welcome Raven Maelstorms.
Thanks for joining
Everyone's participation counts here.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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Meter is not a do all, end all. It is a manner in which we might analyze what we have written to suss out why some things work and others do not.
To understand meter is to understand HOW we write, not to give us strict guidlines to write within.
I will post a detailed description of "Iamb" and lay out the parameters of our first exercise in a few hours.
And welcome Raven.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

.

We will engage in five exercises, the first four using the quatrain (a poem with four lines of verse. Remember that a “verse” is a single line of poetry), the fifth will be a poem of slightly more length using the metric form the poet had the most trouble with. This form I will assign.

 

The four metric forms we will use are Iamb, Trochee, Anapest and Dactyl. I will give an explanation of them before each exercise.

 

So to begin.

 

Some of this will be review for a few of you, but I will start at “The Bottom Line”, so that everyone is on board.

 

Each verse in a poem is separated into metric (or poetic) “feet”. A metric foot has one accented syllable accompanied by one, two or three unaccented syllables.

Iamb is one unaccented syllable followed by an accented syllable.

“To be.” The normal print is unaccented, the bold is accented.

The example is a single foot of Iamb, therefore it is “monometer”.

 

“To be / or not / to be.”

The slashes separate the metric feet. Here there are three, therefore we are writing in “Iambic Trimeter”.

 

“To be / or not / to be, / that is / the ques- / tion.

 

Here we have five Iambic feet with an extra unaccented syllable. Therefore we are writing in “Iambic Pentameter”. The absence of another accented syllable at the end makes this verse “Catalectic”.

An important distinction is that the extra unaccented syllable is not considered “extra”. The verse is catalectic because of the “absence” of the accented syllable at the end that would make the verse “hexameter” (otherwise known as an “Alexandrine”).

 

Before we actually write the first quatrain, I want everyone to engage in a drill of scansion.

Below are three lines of verse. Please scan them as I did Bill’s snippet above and submit them as you would a poem.

Please do not put them here as everyone would be given the opportunity to copy each other.

The purpose is to determine that everyone in the workshop understands how to scan a verse.

Each verse is Iambic Pentameter.

 

1. “When I have fears that I may cease to be…” (Keats)

2. “I met a trav’ller from an antique land.” (Shelley)

3. “Shall I compare thee to a summer’s day?” (Shakespeare)

 

Begin work on the first quatrain. It must be in Iambic Pentameter. When you have it, don’t wait. Once you have scanned the three lines post your quatrain when ready. Rula and I will analyze the scanning you have done on the three verses and help you make corrections if necessary.

Don’t concern yourself with writing “good” poetry. I don’t care if the quatrain even makes sense. The only priority is the meter. It can be a load of nonsense and I won’t care so long as the meter is precise.

This is a mechanical exercise. The point is to write in flawless Iambic Pentameter.

Nuts and bolts… not art.

 

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

You want us to post as a poem to the stream but broken down like your example?

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

I believe these are two different drills;
the first one is to break down the three verses listed above by Keats, Shelley and Shakespear and submit it on the stream.
The second one is to write a quatrain and also submit it on the stream, each separately.  

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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... yes. Scan them as per my example just so we can all clarify that everyone knows how, then start working on a quatrain in iambic pentameter.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

Where should we post scanned lines?.............stan

Just like posting a poem. Then Rula and I will analyze and (I hope) everyone will be able to comment on them.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

Hope you'd enjoy your time and explore new things. I know you will
You're the most welcome.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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The death of me

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

... it has been brought to my attention by several poets (specifically thank you Beau) that I am coming across a bit too harshly.
I ask you to forgive me.
The emotional turmoil I've been going through lately seems to be having the effect of making me "all business" and perhaps a bit "snobbish".
That is not my intent or my desire.
I have much to share, but also much to learn.
I run workshops for a selfish reason- I learn reams of information and concept while teaching them.
So... if you will give me another chance I will tone it down, still offer what I can and pick YOUR brains while I'm at it.
Again, I apologize if I have been off putting and ask you to be patient with me while I adjust.
I want everyone to learn, but to do that I must be amenable.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

Not having read all the comments I jump in here Wesley, and say that the best teachers learn with their students, those who "Know it all;" (and who does?) cannot be good teachers, so I am sure you have the right attitude, and are very valuable to this site with it. I am sorry not to be a good student, but hope you all learn much that's interesting and inspiring from each other.

Love to you Wesley of the epic poetry.
Ann.

"The image of yourself which you see in a mirror Is dead,
but the reflection of the moon on water, lives." Kenzan.

those people who think they know it all really piss of those of who do.

That's a joke.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I do a lot of free form, tanka, rengo, haiku and haikai. Western meter is something about which I feel very hesitant. I have done some iambic pentameter with no rhyming, I would feel like a raw recruit in this workshop.

it's a pleasure to join us.
I'll add you immediately. If you have any questions please don't hesitate.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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Oh golly thank you for asking me to join, but this sounds like the grammar of poetry,
and sh!! I don't like spending time analysing grammatical points in language, 
sometimes Norwegians say what part of Norway do you come from, but I couldn't
explain Norwegian grammar to you...!!! French too, the teacher said why didn't I have
an English, or Norwegian accent in my French." J'ai hausser les èpauls," and said
I didn't know. The same thing will apply to poetry, I jump out of bed and into the sky
to sense what words the clouds can pour out today, or in the night, for me and they
come, if they don't fit the norms of poetry, then "tant pis!"

So I bow in admiration of all of you in here, and thank you for considering me capable
of following this course, but.... Love to you all and good luck in the finer intricacies of
poetry, if I were twenty, the story might be different, but then I never did like the theories
of things as opposed to the doing of them. I'll jump into this morning Love Ann.

"The image of yourself which you see in a mirror Is dead,
but the reflection of the moon on water, lives." Kenzan.

we would have liked you to join in order to spice up the workshop. Meter is quite a hard bite to all the participants I guess and a real challange. It requires a real will to learn and much patience to understand and follow what Wesley's saying, which again I guess all the participants have.
Thank you again dear.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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"Eat your damn food now",
Is this an example of "Monometer"
Would they be something akin to a shouted request or order on the parade field.
If used in a poem this would break the set form of any piece ????
I shall progress to Iambic Pentameter., just give me a minute or two..

Just sorted a four line piece:-

Touch the way I hold you in my heart
In mind my thought is so clear when needed
To hold your love my twin in life is good
Do let me melt our inner selves now love

I will get the hang of these things one day lol
Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

... Your first line is not monometer. Monometer will consist of a single metric foot.

"Eat your" is Trochaic Monometer. It is a single foot of Trochee. An accented syllable followed by an unaccented syllable. Your line is a Catalectic (because there is a hanging syllable) Trochaic "Dimeter" (there are two metric feet with an extra syllable).

If you haven't already, post your quatrain as a poem (make sure you put the workshop title in your title) and everyone can comment on it. I will wait to say anything until it's posted as a poem. I want everyone to have the opportunity to weigh in on everyone's quatrains. Have you scanned the three lines yet? If not, please do that first and post it as a poem.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

We have three more metric forms to discuss, but I'm not getting much response from everyone. Please participate. Scan the three lines and submit a quatrain in Iambic Pentameter. Everyone has life intruding, but I still want the workshop to proceed if possible.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

will try to make time to post something tomorrow..............stan

However, since most of our participants are not participating, I'm going to give everyone an opportunity to make the attempt. Even after we have moved on to another metric form if anyone still wants to submit a quatrain in Iambic Pentameter, I will gleefully discuss it with them.
Otherwise, those prepared to go on please consider a quatrain in Trochaic Pentameter.
Trochee is the opposite of Iamb. An accented syllable followed by an unaccented syllable. Five metric feet per line and take care to include the last unaccented syllable. It is quite common for poets unfamiliar with the form to disinclude that half foot and end as though Iambic.
I will post my example shortly.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

participated...lack of sleep and all....considering my lack of internet for the last two weeks, this is as quick as I could get something submitted....

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

I was lonely for you.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

I left my quatrain in the stream for you...if you are interested...i know i didnt get the five feet in there but i got four...sleep deprivation is killing my brain cells one by one....

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

give me some sound effects to go with Trachee. You gave me the da dum rhythem to go with iambic pentameter. I do much better when I can hear it...I think it comes from my years learning to play guitar...Jimi Hendrix I am not, but I did learn a few things.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Just the opposite of iamb . It is DUM du/DUM du/DUM du......( five feet )
Hope that helps.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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help a great deal. i wanted to make sure i had the beat down before i tried to write anything. I speak in rythems, it is the musician in me, i relate everything to sound and music...

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

I promised to stay away from this workshop because all my meter workshops I have lost my temper and abused the poets who think their originality resides in ignorance of poetic form.

You are wrong. Learn the craft and the terminology and you will become much better poets.

Wesley has done a superb structure.
And you will never realise your full potential without it.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

Those whose "express themselves" regardless of all the body of craft are normally geniuses. They are usually people with genius innate talent, like Esker and Lonnie. he rest of us have to work and learn.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

But anyone one of you who does not commit to this workshop is making a mistake. You are losing your potential to be better poets.
If you don't learn meter you commit yourself to mediocrity.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

Great to see you visit this workshop, I is all those nasty words and a few more.
Also I is the nice ones, according to how I feel.
Still loves you unconditionally no matter what you say.
Your words of wisdom and experience are accepted and most welcome, Yours as always Ian.T
PS:-Sadie showed me how to love Elves even the weird ones lol.
Take care talk soon...

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

First, let me begin by saying I am participating. I have been without internet for over two weeks as my family was put in a dangerous situation and we had to move. I have been in touch with Wesley letting him know my status. I just got back on the grid. Second, I have three children. Two did not handle moving well and have kept me up most of the night for the better part of these weeks...I literally was asleep on my feet. I dont have the privilege of sitting home and writing poetry by the hour. I am a mom, full time employee and a student. Poetry is what I do for fun and for release. It isn't suppose to create drama or insults or a good tongue lashing when someone thinks I am not meeting their unreasonable standards or expectations. I shouldn't have to justify myself if I fall off the map or take a leave of absence. This is not my job..I don't get paid to take the crap and that is why I took a break...plus personal reasons that I don't want to make public on here. I am far from being an adolescent and am sick of being treated as such. I have more responsibility than those who criticize can imagine and I do a damn good job of juggling it all. I am a grown woman not a personal stomping ground. Those of ypu who dont know me I apologize. That being said, I could care less right now who likes or dislikes me or my poems..I am here to learn a few things to try and improve....nothing more

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

I believe you're doing really good and your participation is highly valued. I am sure no offense intended. I think jess is just reacting towards your initial thoughts here in the discussion. I assume he didn't have the chance to see that you've already submitted the two drills you are supposed to do and did even better than many who have particpated only by names.
I just hope that others who asked to be listed would have the courage and step in and positively participate just like you.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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I believe I am caught up now. I have to work on perfecting my Trochee later on when I have time. I can't really do it from work because I have a hundred other things to do. I just have one word to change....now its finding that one word to take its place...

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

I reacted without considering your personal circumstance.

Still, the worst poets on Neopoet are the ones who "write from the heart" and make no attempt to improve their craft.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

that I am not a good writer. I know this, I accept this and I am attempting to learn different techniques. I am not sure if this will make me any better or not but always good to learn something new. I was not born with any God given talents, I write from darkness, a place most do not understand....We all have our definition of what makes a good writer and whose poems are good and whose are not. You are a educated indivdual, I am not. I like to think that I am but I am not. These are things I have learned about myself and can admit. I am sure I am not THE worst writer on here but I know I am one of the worst. We shall see if at the end of this workshop if I can produce something even mildly acceptable.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

soryy.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

my whole life by teachers, relatives etc that I was a good writer. How wrong they all were and how horribly I was misled. A reality check is better than living in a fantasy. At least in reality, you know where you stand.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

You may be a brat, but you still make things happen.

I confess to being a little disappointed that not everyone who signed up is participating, but quite honestly if I had but one poet who gained something from the workshop I would consider it successful.

We all have lives (though I'm not always sure what I've done with mine... I haven't looked in the bathroom yet) and reality will interfere with art always, but for my part sharing what I understand is a blessing and keeps me from despair.

I will hurry no one. If in the last week of the shop someone submits a quatrain in Iambic Pentameter I will welcome it for discussion.

As Jess said, poetry is a "craft" and as such much be studied if we are to produce the best we are capable of. I am no Esker. Without my studies of this craft my poetry would be worse than it is.

I hope that everyone will participate in even the smallest way. I am a mentor by choice. I enjoy it and learn from it. I am ready to assist in any way possible... I do not however, do windows.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

I wanted to leave this workshop entirely to you.

I will butt out in future.

My apolgies to you and Carrie.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

I never thought I was one of the worst on here but like I said, reality is better than fantasy. Prevents you from making an ass of yourself....I guess I dont really know myself at all

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

I value your opinion almost as much as I do mine...
was that too arrogant?

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

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author comment

I think you know better. You are a marvelous writer. Emotional and provocative. Uninformed concerning classical forms is not synonymous with "bad".

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

While you are struggling with Trochee I thought I would introduce Dactyl and Anapest for your perusal.

Don’t panic. The quatrains are not due, but these two meters are quite different from Iamb and Trochee, so I want to give you the opportunity to consider them from afar for a short time.

 

Dactyl and Anapest are different in a number of ways. First, they are called “treble” (or triple) meters as they both use three syllables per foot.

 

However, the greatest difference from Trochee and Iamb is that in the English language it is “almost” impossible to write an entire poem in one of these meters. The term commonly used is “runaway meter”. Meaning that a poem written entirely in Dactyl or Anapest tends to “roar” through itself and sound rushed, insincere and unnatural.

This does not mean it cannot be done, but in most cases of traditional poetry these meters are used in conjunction with Trochee (Dactyl) and Iamb (Anapest).

 

I would still like to see quatrains written exclusively in these meters as an exercise in understanding them knowing that after the workshop few poets will use them alone.

 

Dactyl (Gr. “finger”) is a foot of three syllables: one accented syllable followed by two unaccented syllables.

This is the / fo-rest pri- / me-val. The / mur-muring / pines and the / hem-locks.” (Longfellow, Evangeline) This verse is catalectic hexameter.

Anapest (Gr. “beaten back”) is the natural opposite: two unaccented syllables followed by an accented syllable.

“From his saw / pit of mouth, / from his char- / nel of maw.” (Melville, The Maldive Shark) This verse is tetrameter.

 

When we write the quatrains I will not insist on pentameter. A minimum of trimeter or tetrameter will suffice.

I will discuss these in more depth when we are ready to begin along with my personal examples.

 

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
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author comment

take a closer look at these from home tonight...I need to charge my laptop as it has been sitting in a box for a few weeks now. The desktop is up and running but I will have to wrestle Jody for that or wait til he goes to bed and hope the kids stay asleep. I will also keep working on Trochee and see if I can't get it totally right. As far as my writing goes, I don't know what I consider myself anymore. I never considered myself a bad writer, just informal etc etc...all the things we have discussed...you have challenged me to be more structured...perhaps it is my inability to conform to everyone's ways...I am not sure...acceptance is few and far between...

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Understanding meter will not make you more "formal", but rather add music to what you already write.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Have ya'll ever noticed that some of the best metered poetry has slips in meter? Before you accuse me of trying to excuse my own unintentional slips, listen on. This is important. The best metered writers are not those whose slips occasionally work. They are the ones who have learned enough about meter to Know when a slip will work and add to a poem........Why do you think I'M here? It would be nice to learn enough to have my poetry work on purpose rather than by occasional accident.

Now to those who prefer free verse. Most contempory free verse writers seem to think good free verse is merely prose chopped up and put into a loose stanza form...WRONG ! GOOD and great free verse also employs poetic devices such as alliteration, vivid imagery, occasional meter and sometimes even (gasp) Rhyme.

So Both forms stand to gain from one another. Heck if even a dyed in the wool rhymer like me can try other forms surely it's not beneath a free verser to attempt to learn how western classic poetry can be of use to them.
I know I'm preaching to the choir because all who read this are already enrolled here...........stan

It is the difference between "Meter", which describes and "Rhythm", which creates. For the purpose of the workshop I have asked for very strict meter, so that we may learn. A solid grasp of how to "describe" what we write means we can relax and write "what works", "what sounds and feels good".
Rhythm is poetry and you write very good poetry, but what you said... that we would like to produce on purpose and not by accident is the basis of the poet.
I agree utterly.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

When parsing a poem, as Wesley said, use Advanced formatting, however the little buttons at the top of the form don't have a 'bold' button. It is correct to put a /  between feet, but to put a syllable in bold select the syllable, hold the control key and press b.

One other thing. You don't have to use one syllable words. Multiple syllable words have stresses and it is ok to use part of the word in one foot and the rest in another. Beware regional accents. Americans say cigarette, English say cigarette. Southern state Americans are all over the place. This is because their accent was heavily influenced by French and other dialects and they tend to use long and short syllabels rather than stress.

I am jealous, Wesley is running this far better than I have run any of my meter workshops. You will all be far better poets by the end,

sincerely,

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

Your original meter workshop taught me a lot,
I know I am a ass hole at learning but I did learn in that workshop.
My application of the forms you showed us as with all courses I attend leaves a lot to be desired but I do learn and appreciate the teachers a great deal.
You can come and critique my work any time,
Yours as always Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

Understanding dactyl. Perhaps you could give me a beat to follow like with the others. My mind is rather foggy at the moment. Any help is appreciated.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

... right now.
Sorry to be MIA. Again.
Problems at home, but I won't let you down.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Understanding dactyl. Perhaps you could give me a beat to follow like with the others. My mind is rather foggy at the moment. Any help is appreciated.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

A treble syllabic meter;
Three syllables make one feet, DUM-du-du/ Dum-du-du/.....
You need to repeat this 4 times each verse-(each line )as said by Wesley.

Does this make any sense now? Please let me know.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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I will try this again now that I can hear it....

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Where are you?
There's a shop here
Waiting for you
Will you?

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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It is also the thing that will make you a better poet.

Encourage everyone you know to join this workshop.

Most poets are lazy, they think that anything they write is true honest expression. Unfortunately that ends up being bad poetry.

Don't be lazy, learn.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

Dactyl is kicking my big ol' butt..........stan

I need to revise mine when this cold I have decides to move on. Then maybe my eyes will stop burning and watering long enough I can read what I write...LOL

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

It may help, it may not (Carrie, I'm a little behind. I will get to yours tomorrow, my word)

Think in terms of dance if you can. This won't work for everyone, but those with a bit of musical background may find this helpful.
Think of Anapest as a Cha-Cha. (cha-cha-CHA). In a traditional Cha-Cha the second beat receives the primary accent (clap on one and three and die). The "cha-cha-cha" is a syncopated beat (meaning three movements or notes are done in only two beats. That gives the strongest emphasis on the last "cha".

Now think of Dactyl as a waltz. In a waltz every two measures or bars receives six beats, but we only need the first measure. The first of the three beats in that first measure is accented (we are no longer Latin now. so we are clapping on one and three preparing to die).
So: ONE, two, three, FOUR, five, six.

As I said this won't work for everyone, but everyone give it a go.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

Sorry I haven't participated or submitted anything! I think I'll have to opt out, time and circumstances are not on my side and now I'm way behind. I will look in on the workshop and try to learn from everyone's comments. Maybe, in the future I will have more lee way to join in.

Thank you though Rula and Wesley for your time and for inviting me into the group, you are doing a wonderful job.

Love Mand xxx

Good workshop...so busy with my life at the moment...but I HAVE been reading the comments and making mental notes.

I am going to be a little more sensitive to the meter of my work.

Ells x

your comment last has vindicated everything we've done.
Thanks.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

Yes, I do. I'm a dufus.
Here is some reading material in Dactyl and Anapest. Certainly not all there is, but extraordinary examples.

First Dactyl which is commonly referred to (when in Hexameter) as "Heroic Meter".
The most obvious examples of Dactylic Hexameter are "The Iliad and The Odyssey" (Homer) and "The Aeneid" (Virgil).
Some less obvious would be "Evangeline" (Longfellow) in Dactylic Hexameter as well.
Browning wrote a short poem entitled "The Lost Leader" in catalectic Dactylic Tetrameter in which he berated Wordsworth for abandoning the liberal cause later in life.

For Anapestic Tetrameter there is the anonymously published "A Visit From St. Nicolaus" or " 'Twas The Night Before Christmas".
We have "The Destruction of Sennacherib" (Byron) also in Anapestic Tetrameter.
Then evidence that Anapest has traditionally been the meter of whimsy and humor: "The Hunting of the Snark" (Carroll) and to finish it off... every limerick you ever heard.

Begin considering our last exercise. I don't want you to stop reworking your quatrains. Let's try to truly grasp the concepts here before going on, but last of all I want to see each of you produce a poem "of worth". I originally was going to assign a meter to each poet, but have changed my mind.
I would like to see a poem written in an appropriate combination of meters. Meaning Dactyl with Trochee or Anapest and Iamb. These meters traditionally work together and I would like to see a poem of some little length (three quatrains at least) using them in conjunction with each other.
Importantly we do not want to mix Dactyl with Iamb or Anapest with Trochee as that makes for a choppy piece of junk.
Start thinking about this exercise while I and Rula continue to advise on your quatrains.
Thank you everyone for the effort put into a rather difficult subject.
When this is through I hope no one "leaves it in the workshop". This is the basis of Western poetry and every poet worth his/her salt will incorporate the concepts into their poetry. It will not happen overnight (been there, still trying).
Growth is the basis of art.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I'm here. Right away I'll read syllabus and comment then will start participating.

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka. All Neopoets welcome to join the Collaborative Poetry Writing Workshop.
https://pixiblogs.blacpixi.com/

On behalf of Wesley too. I know he will be more than happy to have a new participant in.
Just added.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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When I write in meter I mentally sing each verse rhyme or not. I also rhythmically count each word in my head so every stanza will have its correct syllables count. Understanding the sound of different types of meter is where I feel I need the most practice. Staying within prescribed structure as you create a pictorial theme I think is what meter is all about.

I learned a new word by accident. I was looking for a word alternate for camera, camaraderie popped up. So I check the dictionary to make sure of its meaning. Surprisingly the word didn't fit my poem theme.. It did though strike a unknown in me. A feeling I never experienced. After a long search Neopoet is the only place that come close to inciting this feeing in me.

With camaraderie in my flesh a poem is brewing like coffee. Once finish I hope to write it in meter of one type.
This workshop can only sharpen my understanding educating me more.
,

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka. All Neopoets welcome to join the Collaborative Poetry Writing Workshop.
https://pixiblogs.blacpixi.com/

As new comers I would recommend that you start with four lines (a quatrain) of Pentemeter (five feet) in each feet two syllables that goes
unstressed/stressed (du-Dum / du-Dum / du-Dum / du-Dum / du-Dum)

Please, find here Wesley's example quatrain.
http://www.neopoet.com/workshop/poems/wesleys-quatrain-bottom-line-workshop

Any question please don't hesitate.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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Please don't forget to choose the name of the workshop from the dropdown list and lable your quatrain
as a (Bottom Line Workshop).

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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A Syllable is how many sounds you pronounce in one word whether it be a vowel or consonant. Based on dialect syllable count can be different for each individual.
Therefore, when writing in meter we must be aware of our reader.
E.g Austria> has two syllables Aus.tria. But I hear three Aus.tr.ia. So, when writing in meter dialect is important when writing and critiquing poetry.

Now syllables stressed or unstressed is a major problem for me. So I'll be paying close attention to this area. I found a website that makes knowing when to stress or not, easier http://www.writingrhymeandmeter.com/?page_id=1787.
I realize the word stress changes the meaning of the word such as PRESent and preSENT. Enlightening for me. The big deal is getting the stressed or unstressed right in a particular type of meter of choice.

I love getting presents. I hear 6 syllables. Knowing when to stress could be vague. 'Present' is clear, but 'getting' is not. At least in my brain it isn't. Lol
Staying focus on every aspect is like multitasking. Which is impossible as some area of importance will go lacking. Practice practice and the workshop makes all the difference.
E.g
I love getting presents
So I presented my case.
There is a part of my brain where new cells need to grow to get this down with ease. Hehe

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka. All Neopoets welcome to join the Collaborative Poetry Writing Workshop.
https://pixiblogs.blacpixi.com/

ALWAYS make sure to insert the workshop name from the droplist at the end of the page before submitting, otherwise it's more probably that your work will be lost in the stream and not seen by me or Wesley to be checked.
If you haven't choosen the workshop from the droplist in your earlier submissions, you won't find your work here.
 http://www.neopoet.com/workshop/view/12775

Please go back to your submissions and insert the workshop from the list down.  

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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Sorry about that! I'll get used to it in the end. Lol I've posted to the "Bottom Line workshop". Not very computer savvy but I'll get there in the end.

Mand xxx

Please read here and vote for the idea if you like it.

http://www.neopoet.com/idea/uploadingdownload-audio-site

Many thanks for your co-operation.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
www.instgram.com/rularules1

We desperately needed this!

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

I am all for it.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Please DO NOT stop working your Dactylic and Anapestic quatrains, but it is time to start putting together a final poem.
Its purpose is (hopefully) to demonstrate our new found grasp of complex meters.
The (unlike the quatrains) should be a work of some quality.
A minimum of three (3) quatrains in either Dactyl or Anapest. Do not shy away from combining meters, but you MUST combine them appropriately. Dactyl may be used with the occasional Trochee and Anapest with a bit of Iamb.
Combine Dactyl and Iamb or Anapest and Trochee and I will burn you at the stake.
I am posting my final poem now. I welcome the harshest comments on my success or failure at the form I used.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

Still struggling....going to have to dig deep for something meaningful....

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Still struggling....going to have to dig deep for something meaningful....

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

you can do it, Carrie.
Use the resources provided in this thread.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

give it my best. Hoping to have some down time tonight between loads of laundry to sit and work at it.

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Just use the meter and you will find the poem writes itself. You have all the innate talent to produce "meaningful" without conscious thought. The only thing I'm trying to do to your writing is put the sounds in a musical order.
Trust yourself. You are one of the most innately talented poets I know. Focus on meter alone and you will find the art takes care of itself.
If you cannot yet trust yourself... then trust me.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

trust you. I just need to find the time to sit and think...perhaps between loads of laundry and the children who don't stay sleeping....

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Where are the resources provided in this thread. Rula suggest I'm a visible learner. I can't find videos she mention

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka. All Neopoets welcome to join the Collaborative Poetry Writing Workshop.
https://pixiblogs.blacpixi.com/

Also, I have been asked to keep this workshop open until Beau has made some progress on her audio experiment. With the final poems still to go it should not be difficult. Please, though some of you have not yet experimented with Dactyl and Anapest (do so I implore you) those of you who are prepared start putting together a final poem. I will not accept a simple Iambic treatise. The poem MUST utilize either Dactyl or Anapest and unlike the quatrains (whose content I was unconcerned with) this should be a poem of some worth.
We are not finished.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
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Thanks Rula I watched one of the videos. It truly helped. It it all sinks in I revise the third attempt. I'll be watching them all. I'm gonna grasp this.

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka. All Neopoets welcome to join the Collaborative Poetry Writing Workshop.
https://pixiblogs.blacpixi.com/

Practice.
Take Ron for example. I trust everyone has been partaking of his success. He stumbled at first, he stumbles still, but much of what he produces is metrical bliss.
Soon, very soon (he may be writing it right now), Ron will write a poem in Dactyl or Anapest (my money is on Dactyl) and give thought only to its content and emotive qualities. The meter will care for itself.
How is this possible, you ask?
Practice.
He (as did I) began with the “tooth pulling” period. My first Dactylic poems were essentially molar extractions with a pair of tweezers. They were bloody, painful and utterly unsuccessful, but with each one I was able to say to myself- “closer”.
Ron is leaving the “slog through mud” period. Exhausted and emotionally bereft he recognizes what I ultimately did.
We are MUCH closer.
Practice. Failure. Practice at failure and finally…
When I penned “Chrysalis”, it wrote itself. The subject was close to my heart and other than the first few feet to give myself the “beat” I gave no thought to the meter.
Practice.
Nothing in your poetry will change unless you are willing to move out of your comfort zone and “practice” something unfamiliar to you.
Any growth requires pulling some teeth and carrying them back through the mud.
Practice.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

Ron, congratulations! You do surely deserve Wesley's praise. Keep on the good work!

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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It's an honor to embody the means to grasping form in an applicable way. It's true, I care a lot about poetry, and am willing to put in tons of work. Truth be told, I started several poems that I deleted before I got the ones I finally submitted. That's the craft of writing, and is as true for my prose as my poetry.

Thanks so much for this Wesley and Rula, you've set the bar very high for future leaders and moderators.

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

It's very kind what you've said. Kind and utterly unexpected. You are correct, I do understand more about writing form than I did before. I knew the terms before, now I'm understanding the concepts. A true failing that will eliminate a talented poet is ----not writing---- seems obvious, huh? Well the opposite of not writing is writing, and writing is practice. Any art form will require discipline. I fight with it everyday. I can also say this: There is not one of you that cannot excel at writing poetry, form or freeform. The questions are what is the level of your passion and what are you willing to do to improve.

Thanks,

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

If we speak as we normally do only the truth will come out.

This will be proved when we get our shit together and link audio recordings to our works.

(You realize, of course I am saying this because very, very soon, with Beau's help, we will will have empirical proof of the value of meter)

[ggrrriiinnnsss]

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

I love you very much.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I am on verge of pulling the last of my few hairs out. The damned dactyl is driving me even crazier than I already am. Main reason? How in hell can one determine if a one syllable word is stressed or unstressed and thus know whether it fits into the form. At least with multi-syllable words I can resort to dictionary. Now I'm aware that almost all 1-3 letter words should be considered unstressed but that doesn't help with longer words..........We need a workshop for dumbasses writing just for me lol. But I'm still working on these last two exercises. I expect to complete them with Something which isn't total crap about the same time democrats and republicans start agreeing........TIME FOR A TYLENOL....................stan

it doesn't have proper stresses like real English

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

Youse talkin ta Me? lol...............stan PS I finally found out at least that monosyllabic words which end in consonants tend to be stressed while those which end in vowls are unstressed........of course I also learned there are exceptions. So i posted Something for dactylic .,..but it's probably wrong

staring at a online dictionary seeing if the words I want to use fit the bill, if not, then I am looking for alternatives that mean the same thing...damn this structured writing, makes every hair on the back of my neck go up....LOL

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

who wants to run that workshop??? My mind automatically rebels strict structure of any kind...i fly by the seat of my pants..words just come out...so my mind is screaming right now, I cant count syllables to save my soul...math was never my strong suit...LOL

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

We can form an idiot's club as soon as I get around to finishing a procastrinators club lol. But seriously anything worth learning is likely to be difficult......at least I Hope it is. I don't see me using dactyl unless it's to emphasise anothe form within a poem but this dactyl stuff might well suit a Real poet just fine...............stan PS just kidding about you also being an idiot. in this shop that's MY job

Is helpful, Stan. I am doing my research....LOL...I think I belong in the procrastinator club too
https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/570/03/

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

I went through the same grief. It IS maddening, but it also has benefit.
Practice of course and inevitably it will relax in your mind. Then (as you said Stan) it will influence what you write for the better. You will not use these meter exclusively, but as color for what you produce.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

Is an under statement but I am persisting....

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

For those of you who may not have access to recording equipment for your computer, want to listen to it prior to recording or simply don't like the sound of your own voice, you can make a pdf file of the poem and have Adobe Reader read it back to you

Scott

I wish you had said this earlier.Too late for me.Too bad.
But the whole aim of the audio is to listen to as many accents as possible, no matter how beautiful are our sounds or good our accents.After all we are poets , not singers, lol. Well, at least l.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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Whether literal questions or not, a poem is filled with questions that require answers.
This is not a new concept and is prevalent in music as well.
e.g. “ ‘Twas the night before Christmas and all through the house…”
Though not actually phrased as a question this line poses what I refer to as a “therefore” moment. A statement is made that needs a response.
“… not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse.”
A simple statement is made that is followed by an unspoken “therefore”.
A question with an answer.
Again.
“The stockings were hung by the chimney with care…”
Therefore- “… in hopes that St. Nicklaus soon would be there.”
This has relevance to meter and concerns “enjambment” (the continuing of a thought into the next line of poetry).
The difficulty in using enjambment is that often it leads into the next line with its thought not conforming to the meter.
“ ‘Twas the night before Christmas and all through the house
creatures were stirring and one damn big mouse.”
Here I have written a “sentence” that makes sense, but breaks my meter.
Though it is a simple enough matter to conform to our chosen meter in the second line, I use something that I call a “half-halt” at the end of the first line which makes it easier to begin the next with an appropriate meter. This half-halt is not quite a caesura (a substantial pause usually in the middle of a verse), but rather a catch breath to make it easy for us to “begin again” in the second line, on meter, even though it is a continuation of a thought.
Most poetry can be scanned for questions and answers whether the poet intends them or not, but awareness of this concept aids in making our “internal logic” sound.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

Not only is it the last assignment for the workshop (which is being carried on a little longer for Beau), but Jess and I had hopes that these finished works (Dactyl/Trochee or Anapest/Iamb) would be the first submissions to Beau's audio workshop.
Please consider it.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
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author comment

I am burned out....

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

write about burn out

Scott

I could write a novel on such a subject.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

is shot. i am in desperate need of something to stimulate me. things are starting to sink in...very gray indeed...

Keep Writing,
Carrie

"Quoth said the Raven, NEVERMORE"

very gray indeed
these thoughts
in desperate need
searching for purpose
while the world
lurks just beneath the surface
visions flash and visions flee
on those mental walls
which only we can see
and yet there is no desire
so kick it back
and set the room on fire

Scott

You're banned for writing mixed meter. This workshop is but about writing in strict meter..(((smiles)))

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

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That's all I had to do? Although Wes will be upset now that I can't submit my assignment.

Scott

Beau needs you to submit, so you can tape the thing.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

my voice was once described as a bad Bob dylan. no one wants to hear me speak. and that was my friends trying to be polite.

Scott

between Donadl Duck and a bumble bee, yet I will post voice poems here.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

:)

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Follow me
www.instgram.com/rularules1

I have the basic content but there are places where I know the meter is just off. I wish I had gone with telling a story but I chose what was on my mind and that was a polemic. I'll be finishing it up in the next couple days.

Ron

Blue Demon77

"What I want is to be what I was before the knife,
before the brooch pin, before the salve, fixed me in this parenthesis:
Horses fluent in the wind. A place, a time gone out of mind."

The Eye Mote-Sylvia Plath

Seriously.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I am so far behind that I fear it will be sometime next week before I get both anapest and mixed poem done.........stan

I will keep this shop open until some (if not all) of the mixed poems are recorded for the estimable Beau.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

The differences in stressed/unstressed and long/short vowels is even greater than I thought.

I encourage everyone to post links to their own readings of their exercises and poems.

Meter is the most important single aspect of poetry and the hardest to learn for those who don't have the "ear". If all else fails use Stan's technique and use a dictionary to find where the stress lies in spoken English.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Directors

This is the end of The Bottom Line. It was kept open longer than planned in hopes of supplying Beau with fodder for her Audio Workshop. Since that is no longer needed I will bring this to a close.
Thank you to everyone who participated in one of my most productive (for me) workshops.
Let me take this opportunity however to say that as any good poem... no workshop is ever finished. As Director of the Mentor Program it is my pleasure and responsibility to assist poets in any way possible. If anyone has a question or problem concerning meter, rhyme or classical forms, please do not hesitate to send me a Private Message directing me to your work. I will offer whatever assistance I can and joyfully. I will not always have the answer, but I have some of them and those I do not have at hand I will find for you.
As Jess I believe that rhythm and its describing formulas meter are a poet's Bottom Line. The cleaner the meter, the better the poem.
Please consider this workshop never truly closed and come to me if you desire a "second opinion" on anything. I will always give the best I have to offer such as it is.

W. H. Snow

A poet is a nightingale, who sits in darkness and sings to cheer its own solitude with sweet sounds. Percy Bysshe Shelley

Learn how, teach others.
The NeoPoet Mentor Program
http://www.neopoet.com/mentor/about

author comment

I have been in and run a number of shops and this is the first one which has kicked my butt lol. But isn't sometimes reaching beyond one's grasp a good thing? I appreciate your patience with my stumbling along and wish I had done better as a participant.............stan

Thank you for your efforts. I believe I am a better poet for it. special thanks to Rula for her efforts, as well.

Scott

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