but i have been guily of this
i tend to re-write if what i am trying to say to the poet is complicated
i try not to change words or their way of saying it
and i stress that it is mho only

i hope i don't offend with my critiques
love judy
xxxx

Hello moon man and how are you doing. Missed you as well here.

I totally agree with you about rewriting a poem. It does not help the writer in my opinion and let me state my reasons here. First of all not only does it make the author free to use it all but it does not help them to learn what they need to learn to help them in their writing. I do agree with suggestions given forth to a writer for improvement but to work the whole poem I think is a little overkill. I may have been done this myself. My idea of crits is to suggest what could make the poem read or format better and I do suggest a different word or phrase.
The main thing I find in reviewing is to be utmost honest and offer your insight into someones piece. I think a writer needs to reflect on feedback without offense for it is only to help them and not to hinder them and then again you have some writers that will be offended no matter how hard you try to help them. I have always noted that it is their write and by listening and reviewing the crit they get is only to help them all in anothers perception of the write and how they felt about it. Not all will be recepted in that manner but I do feel for the most part that the help and information is valued for the time you put into it. That is my rather long comment and you know I could not have said it any shorter then this.

Love and Hugs to you and the family and hope all has been well with you. Missed you guy:)

Magics Mona

don't bother me, I find them very useful. I am writing for an audience, and it is very handy to know what that audience wants to see.
As for re-writing others' entire poems, it's not something I do, I think it is a little egotistical on my part. But I do feel that it is useful to show others examples of what one thinks alternatives might be, in terms of individual lines and stanzas, particularly if the poet is someone young and inexperienced. It is the best way to illustrate ideas and technique, in many cases, but it should always be presented with the caveat of "this is my opinion, I don't expect you to do it like this."

IMHO, as Judyanne :) might say!

I try my best to never critique as to content. The times I offer rewrites on a line or phrase I try to make it clear that it is only meant as an example of an alternate form. I sometimes catch myself suggesting a change that doesn't improve a work but only makes it more my style. I try to avoid this and wonder if others have the same tendency. I try to offer the minimum in change as it is often difficult to know if a suggested change will affect the message a writer intends to convey. It seems that most writers here DO appreciate honest attempts to help as long as a person doesn't get too carried away. I know I welcome all help then pick and choose what I use and hope those who I make suggestions to feel the same way..........scribbler

Outstanding idea!!

Victor

I find it extremely rude if I write a poem/song and somebody feels that ithey can write it better without first offering me their wisdom on where changes may go first. If they re-write it for me, then I have learnt nothing for myself and the new author who has now STOLEN your work and made their own version sits all triumphant leaving the original author to feel somewhat of a lesser being.

I enjoy getting critique on my work and the whole point at Neo is to learn and evolve together but a complete re-write is out of order unless specifically asked for.

If anybody wishes to re-write my work, they won't be getting a thank you or even an acknowledgment from me.

I have been asked on occasions to re-write people's poetry into lyrics, but again, I will only do this if specifically asked to...and that is the key...ask the author first before stomping ahead with your own version.

Ok, that's me off my soap box now, well I slipped a little as soap does get slippery don't it.

If anybody wishes to defend their position and begin to get a little personal over this posting, please PM me and don't ruin Richard's blog...that seems only fair and not rude in anyway,

kindest regards,

HS

For me, line and stanza suggestions are part of the critique. I try to take careful notice of author intent and construct suggestions to support that intent. But if a section or line or poem does not work and I have an idea that may be helpful, I feel compelled to offer an example.

This is why, as a rule, I offer critique only on request. I know my critique can be seen as harsh and brusque even while I do not mean it that way. My critique is always about successfully communication the intent of the poem, never about the author.

Having spent some time today reading poems and commenting...it is apparent that we are still getting comments that are not helpful at all.

Typical example:

"really nice poem"

It just seems a pointless comment to make...it says nothing at all to help the author of the poem.

Can we try to keep this site a workshop and step above pointless comments and be critical/suggestive.

If you can only say something pointless like 'really nice poem'...don't bother!

I have heard that workshops are being created on various topics...so I fully support the 'Critiques' workshop...we all can learn to be better at critiques, but surely we are intelligent enough to write more than a simple 'nice poem!' comment.

regards,

HS

Now you're on to something! I think they would need to run a brief psych. assessment test first - to check that their motives are entirely honourable ;) But seriously, I like how you've opened this can of worms and that you have had such a deluge of responses - suggests a lot of people did too.
My sense, and I stand corrected - but most people have different reasons for posting. I think the male folk are more driven to being 'punctilious' and the women - to being 'stroked'. Either way, it's horses for courses and I'm speaking subjectively when I say - I HATE someone to re-write a piece of work. Make suggestions and say why - but don't pro offer and then proceed to re-write the entire poem! It's about each person's unique response to a work. Respond sincerely and use "IMHO" as a reminder, that that is what it should be - ' a humble opinion'!
THanks

remarks here! I should have thought before I vented in my blog. lol.
Great advice for us all and i concur with just about ......everything!

Always,
Tonya

Hi Richard,

I think the intent and the differant folks opinions for this subject is correct. But we have people of all levels and grading curves. Some who don't know the rules and what is polite.. or not. All here for differant reasons and intent. We are a workshop. But we are an open workshop. We don't pre-restrict members before joining. And shouldn't. So to me this Ideal would be better suited for a private membership community.

I am sure I have rewritten a verse or two many times. My intent of coarse to honor the poet and their intent for the poem. Staying well away from content judgement. But I did have to learn that lesson.
I only ever am trying to show how I would have made it flow differantly. Flow doesn't always have a rule that is explainable. It was never meant to be wright or wrong, Just my opinion. Sometimes just a line, usualy NOT the whole thing. But cut and paste and just adjusting what I would change may have pushed it. I would hate to think someone took my efforts wrongly. But it wouldn't be the first time someone thought I did.

I try to, like with a poems content, not judge people on what or how they comment. I know we are are a workshop. But we are one of all levels. So in my opinion we should stay away from rules restricting comments, or comment style. Just like we stay away from judging content. We would have to enforce them and be irrated the many times the line is crossed. In my opinon it would be easier to train our members to take what they need and leave the rest then trying to direct how people, espeacialy new or young people may choose to comment.

If someone offends me, I usualy tell them. And after that 90% of the time I have made a new friend and thought of something in a whole new way. Whether I needed to or not, it didn't kill me. Suppressed people who let things botttle up until they have peeves and then try to set limits are so stressful. Not only to themselves but others.

But I do admit to having my own pent up pet peeve. Trying to wade through blogs. Pages and pages of blogs from the same person. On the same day. Day after day. They know who they are. So many blogs you can't find other people's blogs. I don't want blogs limited. I just wish the person would take thier ego down a notch and not force the whole site to wade through every single random thought they decide to post. I also know I am not the only one that is peeved by that. Anyways back to the subject.

But I do agree that we need to foster a sensitivity to our authors. I just think we need to toughen them up a little too. We are an open community with many people here for differant reasons.

But I do doubt I will be changing anyones work anytime soon. I do see your point. I hope mine is not to intrusive to this great conversation. Sorry I was so late to the topic. I haven't written in awhile either so it appears to be extensive opinion. I think I was in the jibber jabber mood. And your a man of few words.... Sorry.

Much love to ya Moonman!

Julie