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A question

What makes a great poem?

Comments

Very funny Lonnie lol. But you know that doesn't really answer the question.....................stan

author comment

or telling me???
a poem is just a poem
some love it
some curse it
depends who has composed it
and who is reading it
then if you know me
you may see
and say
lovedly

as i always do say
Stanly

loved

I'm asking Everyone. There are poems around which are considered great by all who read them. So you are dodging the question.............stan PS ever consider a career in politics lol?

author comment

nah never me politicks??
it sticks

loved

Damn it man do you need to ask..
Read some of anyones poems and you will soon see the good, the bard, and the ugly.
The Bard being the one that all poetry hinges on which could be bad...lol
You sometimes write a piece where the reader is walking by your side and seeing with your eyes, that is good poetry, need I say more..
Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

Ah Ha! another artful dodger lol. I am aware that about everybody here writes a good poem on occasion. But this question is what makes for a Great poem.....................stan

author comment

I like that!

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

Sorry, forgot what you asked.
A great poem is one that is remembered bt the reader and kept for their own thoughts and help, even printed and put up on the wall.
Then again one that scares the mother in law away would then be a great piece.
I can't even remember my own poems let alone other poets writing, in fact what do we remember of the bits we read.
When at school I had to remember One poem a few bible pieces and most of those have stayed with me all those years so "Home thoughts from abroad" must be a great poem.
A question without a positive answer Stan, as the wise old owl would say Whoooo Knows,
Yours, Sparrow

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

I tend to agree that a great poem must be one which is remembered but does that make "Mary had a little lamb" a great poem? there's a lot to be determined here ain't there?............stan

author comment

Look there is no need to bring unusual sex habits in children's nursery rhymes into our lovely clean site..Not really a poem more of a cross gender song, La La black sheep..
Take care out there, Yours Sparrow..
Ian.T is out with Cata taking notes for an epic work or so they say ????

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

the goodest poems are those
which one reads again and over again and yet again....
like
ba ba blacksheep
have you any wool
Stan have you>??

Then
IF
by Rudyard Kipling

The Road Least Taken
by Frost

ONE BY YOURS TRULY
SO far read by over 2600
which one?
I shall have to trace back
shall soon

the ball is in your court
to agree or
agree to disagree Stan

loved

I think you might be close to the mark about a poem being read more than a few times being a part of it. Now for the next thing....what makes one want to read a poem often over a length of time?...............stan

author comment

I believe there is no good and bad poems as long as it has a good grasp of language, and grammar. Now, the rest depends on the reader's taste.Does the poem relate to him, appeal to him or delivers a message, then the poem is good. Otherwishe, it isn't but still that doesn't mean it is not a good one, (IMO)
Thanks for sharing.

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Come on now....no such thing as a bad poem? Leave "political correctness" behind. We all know there are bad poems and I'll admit to having written some myself. But there IS something which elevates a poem beyond good to being great. Think back on poems which affected you strongly enough to be remembered (if only a few lines). For being remembered must a part of a poem being great.............................stan

author comment

the latest one

beautiful ones

of course you haven't read still
and need to comment too
hope you do...
then all your doubts about poetry
would have been answered by
Lovedly
follow STANLEY???

loved

(not to be confused with memorisable)

The nitty gritty of how to make poetry M&M is not so clear, if it was everyone would write M&M poetry and none of it would be!

A few factors I think are important are-

  • originality, whether in form or content
  • effective use of language
  • effective use of imagery
  • effective use of prosodic devices (rhyme, meter etc)
  • startling or powerful ideas
  • strong emotive content

 

This just a start but I suspect is closer to what you are asking Stan. Of course not every factor is present in every great poem.

 

I would like to see what other factors people can add to this list.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

Thanks for dropping by and beginning a list of the things which help make a poem great.....................stan

author comment

Jess I will try to add to your list of the needs yet we can call a poem great if it should portray just one of these things:-

originality, whether in form or content
effective use of language
effective use of imagery
effective use of prosodic devices (rhyme, meter etc)
startling or powerful ideas
strong emotive content

Yours and a little addition:-

The awareness of yourself
The awareness of Mankind
The love of ones self
The unconditional love of others
Selfless struggle for perfection
The acceptance of others guidance..

I wonder how the great poets fared as they went about their ways, as we know there were few that went solo.
Artists of all types usually gathered together, playing with (As Poets) each others words, and as we do here giving their slant to a theme or format of others poetry.
Should we then select a poem and make it so, why can't we as they did, hone each others works to a degree of beauty in poetry, that will last as the old Masters did.
The nearest we come to that is the Eternal Renga where we all donate our words, but then we seem to withdraw and leave it hanging there.
We need to find a way to perfection or as close as we can be without the Ego's getting in the way.
I will await a reply before talking more on this subject as I feel a new opening in the poetry of Neopoet, Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

it should be sweet too (((smiles)))

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

"I believe there is no good and bad poem as long as the language usage and grammatically accepted [this is bad grammar!]. Now , the rest depends on the reader's taste" at almost every point, I do think almost everyone is capable of at least a few M&M poems.

Sure people have different degrees of innate linguistic and creative abilities but if you learn poetic form, expand your mind and vocabulary with reading and thought and if you write, write, write, always striving for improvement, your poetry will certainly improve and when the muse visits, when you have one of those glorious epiphanies of inspiration, your toolkit of poetic skills will be ready to create grand poetry.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

for bringing my weaknesses into attention jess. As if you don't make mistakes!

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Yes we all make mistakes, but your comment about no bad poetry is... [jess, for once stops himself before becoming abusive and insulting] just wrong.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

was an opinion.I edited to correct a grammatical mistake .
Opinions are not divine laws , they might be right or wrong

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

but your comment was what I call pluralism, it makes everything right, nothing wrong, everything cozy and nice. Like Stan said, it's over-political correctness, but it's even worse than that, it denies real achievement of quality. and transcendence. Everything people write can be just plain bad lousy shit and if we have any reason to write we should acknowledge that. Otherwise take up sewing and make sure not to drop stitches.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

I too don't want to get into a fight .

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Please keep in mind this blog is about GREAT poems, not good or bad ones. In my opinion a truly great poem broaches little argument as to its worth regardless of the reader's background.................stan

author comment

sweet and sour
One must discern the crap in order to appreciate the great.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

Some great poems are sweet but not all are. Nothing very sweet about" do not go gently into the night, rage rage against the dying of the light" ....................stan

author comment

I was just kidding. As you know the M&Ms , refers to a kind of candy . Have you tasted it before?

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

Still, I did want to say what I said in relation to your earlier comment.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

I got your idea and I work hard to improve my poetry ((I hope it shows))

❤❤❤❤❤❤

Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words
........Robert Frost☺

There seems to be a consensus developing here that greatness is entirely dependent on knowledge of writing. This is probably usually true but if it were the only thing needed wouldn'y all who had studied poetry write only great poems? I wonder how many Poe, Bukowski, Frost and such wrote that have been resigned to the dust heap of forgotten poems?...................stan

author comment

I acknowledged the part of innate ability and also encouraged the development of mind in general.

We can't do anything about innate ability but there are lots of things we can do to improve the power and scope of our thoughts. Starting by challenging our own accepted beliefs.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

I am aware that many poets pretty much try to stick with controversial poetry. And a lot of it is at least good and some might even be referred to as great. But if challenging one's own beliefs was a prerequeset (I bet that ain't spelled right lol) how does one allow for Frost< longfellow and the modern poets whose works are not filled with angst and self doubt but are still considered great by many people?
The longer this blog gets the more evident it becomes that defining great poetry is easier said than done...........stan

author comment

perhaps challenging our preconceptions. Whatever, my point is that we can develop our minds. It does not have to be controversial.

It seems to me there are two basic trains of thought here-
those that define great poetry by its subjective effect
and
those who attempt to name the factors that make great poetry.

In terms of a discussion for poets I think the latter approach is more useful.

[sic prerequisite]

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

a great poem says something profound and true, in an arresting and poetic way, about something that is of interest to all peoples no matter their creed or beliefs, and makes the reader want to remember the quotation for future use

'Moving Finger writes: and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.'

'this too, will pass'

'for sale
baby shoes
never worn'

love judy
xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

"profound and true" ..........hmmm........not sure that a great poem must be both.But I'm nearly certain it must be at least one or the other..................stan

author comment

Now they have defined poetry have I got to go and clean all those toilet walls of their wonderful short statements ???
Graffiti is an art and sometimes a poetic statement, it abandons true verse by its shortness but the message is so clear.
I would love to know who wrote the shortest poem and if our great Bard had a wastepaper basket filled with scribbles.
Someone said the other day that Neopoet is evolving into two Schools of thought one was traditional and the other modernism, I feel that no matter what, a great poem will shine through whatever structure it is written in.
Let us not forget that we have to start somewhere, and we are all not going to become Bards like the old Master.
Let us think carefully before we correct others words they in their structure may be great after we have all left.
Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

I guess Some grafitti could be considered great poetry although I have yet to see any that was. And don't forget that there are still poets here at Neo who produce both modern forms and traditional.
It was not my intent in posting this blog to try whipping folks here into producing great poetry. Heck even if one of us does we'd never know it because it takes a lot of time before a poem can be judged truly great............stan

author comment

Omar Khayyam
'Moving Finger writes: and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.'

'This too, will pass'

THIS is also what Shakespeare said

Time and tide wait for no man

‘‘‘I say...

‘‘You are you
Others can never be you
Nor you can be them...'''
So be your true self….

How do I qualify
Stan the only man

loved

As I stated above I think a great poem must stand the test of time. Hence trying to judge a collegue's works for future readers is pretty iffy. .........................stan

author comment

we shall wait
that passage of time
then the poem is great or not
none will know
my friend
as our generation too must end

So read a poem
if it’s worthy today
perhaps get back after another day
just to say
what you want to
or wanted to

Give a task to all stalwart poets here
to read all comments
with diligence my dear
then evolve a consensus,
if you may
and
come out with the best poetry
all will say
I am part of it...
then the poem will be worthy
of the salt and spice
that you wish to sprinkle
may be

loved

The delight and rapture it brings to the reader. In other words, touching a chord. IMHO.

always, Cat

When you fling poo, some of the stink sticks to you!

"The Book of Styx" can be ordered and purchased on line at:
http://eddystyx.mythramuse.com/

So perhaps there are 2 levels of greatness as there Are poems which touch deeply when read. This is admirable. But then that old test of time intrudes. Is a poem truly great if at least a few lines can't be recalled in the future?
But then being merely recalled doesn't do it either eg. "Mary had a little lamb" We all recall this but it can hardly be judged great can it?.............stan

author comment

You obviously didn't know Mary..
Yours Sparrow

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

xxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

let's dance

to nite
the hour beckons so
the music is soft and slow
the master jazz is
like Louis Armstrong has come to play
for only us today
let's dance a last dance
I pray

loved

I am having a bad night it is 00.00 on the computer clock.
Does this mean that time has ceased to exist and you argued when I said it was man made...?????
It is Mary Mary quite contrary, that rings silver bells for me.
She has an allotment by the coast with lots of funny things in her garden.
Come on get real lol,
Yours Sparrow

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

i thought we were talking about the mary with the lamb

now you bring in the contrary one
- did you know that that was about bloody mary
silver bells and cockle shells were instruments of torture...

xxxx

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

It's 07.40 on the box, there are that many Mary's about it's not funny,
this one also has told me that her husband treats her cruel, she says that the whip is ok but draws a line at sadism.
Yes in history things were very bad, and then to make nursery rhymes to scare the kids or make excuses is worse.
Later I will ask my Mary if it's sheep or shore if that usual blank look comes across her face then I will just smile..
Take care out there and have a great evening, Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

of your company
tomorrow wake up and see
where are you
and where is lovedly

god night
sweet dreams
let slumber brain wash thee
to be the authority of what you be

loved

Good question, Stan.

It depends, doesn't it? All great poems have a universal quality but appeal to our individuality. Whether it is through matching experiences or that certain je ne sais quois. It harmonizes within.

For me it's often something that I don't do. Whether Shakespeare or a Ginsberg. Or one of my old favourites and a few new ones by relative unknowns.

~A

Thanks and good of you to join in. I'm getting a lot more feedback than I'd expected. I have readmany very good and (if the passage of time agrees) maybe even great poems here. But might many of them become dated as to content over the years? And nearly universal appeal might well be a requirement for greatness................stan

author comment

of course great poetry impacts and affects the reader. The only reason to talk about it is to try and figure out how, so we can learn to do it.

That is the point. How does great poetry work? I've offered my opinions.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

And your and all opinions are welcome here. The tough part of the question is what beyond the technical aspects and subject of a poem makes it great. THAT is the real question isn't it?...................stan

author comment

Beyond analysis of all its aspects it must come down to the 'ah!' factor. Discussion becomes meaningless. Well, not quite, however we are venturing into almost spiritual grounds. Which is fair and good, and by it's nature ineffable.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

It seems it keeps coming back to whether a poem is memorable or not. After all, how could a poem be great if it's not remembered over time?.......................Of course memorable isn't the only thing needed..............stan

author comment

All opinions on this subject of how to recognise greatness in poetry.
Well we are all stuck there are so many famous poets that people quote from and they mostly are dead, brought up by the old school and in bands of brothers learning from each other.
Later someone says that is a great poem, and nearly everyone starts to agree, then the greatness is born.
We cannot see what the future holds for our scribbles and correct forms, though I feel that all this learning is just a guide to a poet where he/she can select how they present their works.
The greatness hides there until it is spoken of, I shall watch with interest at our friends, from a spiritual advantage point, to see if any of my words become great or that I rubbed words with the future famous.
This is written as a reasonable comment.
Yours Ian.T

PS:- I have scolded Sparrow and sent him to bed early as his fatuous crap was driving me mad,.. LOL He He

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

Therein lies the rub. Can we ever truly judge whether a poem is great that was written in our own times? For what We consider great might later be judged to have been lacking at a later time due to a number of different reasons such as a subject whose relevence has passed or a style which is easily dated or even a particular form which has been abandoned.
At this particular point in time I think a current poet is seldom even given consideration for being great unless he/she is judged such by the media........................stan

author comment

perhaps people should name great poems and do their best to explain just why they are great.

Let's get real and specific. Judyanne posted some great lines here. Let's go the extra mile and explain why they are great. Or admit the discussion is pointless.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

You just gave me my next workshop. Now I need to get a syllabus together........................stan

author comment

(that was my intention, subversive, manipulative or gently guiding? You choose) [teehee]

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

I have a new word, you have been "Welfed" its meaning has been hidden in a land far away, in a wandering man.
It means to manipulate another person to do something, either without them knowing, or even by explaining what they want you to do in such a way that you think it came from your own thoughts. ROTFLMAO
So you have been well and truly "WELFED" just watch out next time lol,
Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

thanks Ian

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

Now stop belittling yourself,
it is not a Common word
it has been passed down through the ages
to be used only on special occasions, lol
Good to see you, Yours Ian.T

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

sometimes the simplest words are most descriptive........like SNEAKY or UNDERHANDED lmao...........stan

author comment

macchiavellian?

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet Managing Directors, with Richard (themoonman)

That word sounds like double Dutch to me, I have syllabled it and it is asking me in Afrikaans to make mosquito netting or some sort of Veil??
"Maak a Veil Ian" I have looked it up and it just makes no sense I will stick with "Welfed" it summarizes everything LOL..
Have a great evening,
Yours Ian.T
The children say you are "well fed" but I think they misunderstood the word, lol Night Night.

.
There are a million reasons to believe in yourself,
So find more reasons to believe in others..

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