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Aesthetics of Sunku

Recently in one of Neopoet forums we discussed a fissibility and rationale of creating a new poetic form, Sunku. We have talked about the structure of Sunku.
Poets here have created a number of astonishing examples as well as asked questions about what is beyond structure of Sunku.
Here are my thoughts on the matter.

The aesthetics of Sunku continue Zen tradition and are based on three elements:
1 ---- rustic simplicity that makes us accept imperfection and shift the focus away from our ego
2 ----- withered elegance that reminds to focus on present while it lasts
and 3 ----- mysterious beuaty that makes us accept incompleteness and let readers fill the gaps and solve the mystery the way they want

A poem recently posted by Sparrow
is a perfect example implimenting the above princeples.
Here is the poem:

I wait
Sitting here
Clothed in shade

Wine flows
A soft voice
Enjoying the now

Loving
Memories glow
The past eclipsed

Simplicity:

I wait
Sitting here
Clothed in shade

The few words create very powerful metaphor! Its simplicity is the most delightful!

Here and now:

Wine flows
A soft voice
Enjoying the now

Mysterious beauty:

Loving
Memories glow
The past eclipsed.

He does not specify what kind of memories, what happened in the past, his image creates associations with celestial cycles, refers to the law of nature without mentioning all these overused words.
I think Sparrow has written a timeless poem.
Comments and questions are welcomed. This is a midterm summary of the Sunku workshop.
Please join me there for more fun developing a new poetic style.
Your help and inspiration are imperative to the success.

Comments

Thanks IRiz for providing more insights as a WS Leader which helps amateur participants like me in comprehending the expected levels which you have explained nicely using Ian's Sunku...which also served the purpose of a mid term review for me to give a thought while writing a Sunku..

I am happy that there are many seasoned poets like Ian, Barbara, Geezer, Stan who are demonstrating their prowess and quick adaptability to this new form...I am sure Rula would also pleasantly surprise you like wise..

A message for you:-

Refill
bird feeder
in your court yard

Enjoy
the drama
as it unfolds

Listen
to music
truly rustic

thanks again

raj (sublime_ocean)

Dear Raj, you stimulating questions and beautiful poems were instrumental to development of the concept. I love the poem you posted here. Could you posted again in the stream?
But maybe think a little more on the last line?
The image is chirping in my head and makes me smile with joy! I love it.

IRiz

author comment

Dear IRiz

Thank you for your kind words. I am an amateur poet and therefore keep on nagging (stimulating) being hungry for more learning.

I will certainly work a bit more on the poem i posted above keeping the recent lesson on aesthetics in the back of my mind.

raj (sublime_ocean)

you've come a long way in a short time!
Congratulations.
I'm looking forward to your essay, please post a link when you post it.

Regarding your 'definition' in this blog I would only add that, whilst retaining compression of meaning, elegance of expression and especially evocation of deeper themes and meanings 'between the lines' the form has proven itself elastic enough to encompass a variety of themes and subjects, including humour, perhaps comparable to haiku and senryu.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I echo your comments which are very succinct and congratulate IRiz and extend best wishes in her endeavor...many have taken to this new style / form like fish to water..
.......

raj (sublime_ocean)

Yes. I agree with the above.
To illustrate
I posted some examples of a range haiku cover.
Find three of my posts on the subject in the collection of books I love https://plus.google.com/collection/AcozEE

IRiz

author comment

It's ol' Mr. Nit picker lol. I've never tried to have a new form offially recognized as such although I think I Did come up with one. But that aside I suspect you are going to have to put some type limitations and rules on it. Now i Don't think the rules need to be as strict as most Japanese forms where the number of syllable and such are so specific. But you might well consider saying something like the first line must have between 2-3 syllables and the second between 2-4 the the last between 3-5. This will keep the form from being confused with being just an off shoot of free verse. just something to think about.....stan

You kept pushing for strict rules but that was not her process. It is an entirely new form. Did you see her original Forum post? She invented it from scratch, even the name.
https://www.neopoet.com/forum/22223

It is now settled at 3 verses of 2,3 and 4 syllable lines.

Is you tidy conservative brain happy now?

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I was happy from the start. I just wanted to help out by asking the questions ahead of time she might be asked by the "review board" or what ever it's called that determines new forms.

you know I can't resist it.
You are like a big elephant with a target on it and I'm holding a rocket launcher, just in case. [grins]

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

not post more more Sunkus . And my apologies for my ill humour before I edited this.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Noted...

made me check out meaning of "sycophantic" which i learn is "a self-seeking, servile flatterer; fawning parasite". ..

I wonder if IRiz too shares your opinion which is perhaps why she does not critique my recent posts

of course everyone has their own opinion..i continue to hold you both in high regard...

Regards..

raj (sublime_ocean)

just some of your comments feel that way to me.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Is there a possibility of Sunku being listed in the drop down selection of poetry forms under "Style Type" since at Neopoet at least this form seems to be receiving a wide acceptance?

Regards...

raj (sublime_ocean)

that drop-down currently lists: free verse, structured eastern and structured western. If we added Sunku we would also have to add-
Abstract (or Sound) Poetry. Abstract was a term used by Dame Edith Sitwell.
Acrostic. A form for hidden messages.
Ae Freislighe. Irish quatrain with intense rhyme scheme.
Alphabet Poetry. Perfect back-to-school poetry.
Anagrammatic Poetry. More fun with letters.
Blackout Poems. Making poems from articles.
The Blitz. 50-liner invented by Robert Keim.
The Bop. Three stanzas and three refrains, developed by Afaa Michael Weaver.
Bref Double. French quatorzain.
Byr a Thoddaid Poems. Welsh quatrain.
Cascade. Variable length form invented by Udit Bhatia.
Chanso. Five to six stanzas with an envoy.
Chant. If it works once, run it into the ground.
Cinquain. Popular five-liner.
Clogyrnach. 6-line Welsh form.
Concrete Poems. Shapely poetry.
Contrapuntal Poems. Independent poems that get intertwined.
Curtal Sonnet. 11-line sonnet invented by Gerard Manley Hopkins.
Cyrch A Chwta. 8-line Welsh form with 7 syllables per line.
Cywydd Llosgyrnog. 6-liner with internal rhymes and variable syllables........

and that's only from A-C. I can think of about 80 different accepted forms and I bet there are hundreds more.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Lol

IRiz

author comment

Gosh....you have plenty of reasons for sure Jess...I wonder if you have made a case for not having "Poetry Type" which list only a few...

which poetry type should one select from the menu on "Poetry Type"

regards..

raj (sublime_ocean)

but it's there for those who choose to use it. Even when I use forms like haiku, limerick, sonnet or villanelle I tend to play pretty loose and free. Those three categories give a pretty broad range. Perhaps African or South American forms could be added? I admit I am woefully ignorant in those areas.
Could any of our African or South American friends help here?

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Sunku is in the N - Z of poetry that I have compiled a blog, I re-stream it every so often especially when we have a new one to contend with.
I will have a look at the ones Jess has mentioned to see if they benefit Neopoet..
Take care will talk later,
Yours, Ian..

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

Thought of drawing your attention. The closure date of Workshop mentioned is 11th March. I thought you might want to extend it since IRiz is away and there are no concluding wrap up remarks from both/either of you.
...............................

raj (sublime_ocean)

Us ratbag poets are never much for rules and workshops end early if no-one turns up or late if it's still going strong.

Don't worry, Irene or I will give you closure when it does end.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Noted Jess

regards...

raj (sublime_ocean)

I do apologies for not saying a great thanks for your use of one of my writes as an example for the new Sunku writes.
I have been a bit lax on comments of late having been away and other low band excuses, please forgive my silence..
I have enjoyed writing these and it suits my way of being vague and sometimes speaking in riddles..
Sometimes we have to work at knowing the meanings behind the writes and that is much better than a white paper that has to cross every T and dot all I's.
You have brought a new energy to Neopoet with this form.
Now not only this form but we can think outside the box and make communication between poets more lively, I have some tiny Ideas like a meeting between two or more poets , fictitious of course but in poetry a talk to others that is never possible in real life.
I enjoyed the meeting in Washington sort of thing and some other writes of mine have this sort of theme, anyway that is in the future where I hope you will take up the lead,
Yours as always Ian..x

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

Hello Ian,
No apologies needed.
It is nice to hear from you.
I am looking forward to hear about your ideas.
Do not call them small.
Meeting in virtual reality is a great way of knowing each other. I enjoyed your poetic invitation.
I am still recovering from my skiing trip. Red eye flights make me think about the end of the world with less than usual objection.
Best, I.

IRiz

author comment

You just rest up a bit, we have had a few combined stories in poetry.
Wesley ran a good long workshop on an epic type of work.
As you have seen I sat there in Washington.
There are three Serial killers on Neopoet,
There is Killer that Gee controls
Also Nevermore from Carrie,
and my own Digit who has met them and arranged a party in the States.
This is probably before you arrived here but I will try and find the one OI wrote where Digit organised a beach party.
We can also reach out in many ways with combined writes where three or more combine to write of any subject but must involve an alias of the poet themselves it should be fun..
Barbara Writes, her workshop on the Japanese style of poetry written by several members ha brought out a great series of poems and poetry, then your own Sunku had the themes been the same this would have produced a great combined series.
I will look for Digit and his beach party and put it on stream when found.
This will do for now you take care and return when you are rested,
Yours as always, Ian .x

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

But Alex Machette prefers murdering poets poetically to poetising.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

is that Lovedly hates it. [grins savagely]

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Lol. Don't make me laugh.
He has a power of writing and no discipline of mind and reminds me a boy who sees a grand piano for the first time in his life and pretends he plays Schoenberg

IRiz

author comment

is that Lovedly hates it. [grins savagely]??????!!!!!!>>>>>>>.......
I just came by
and thank you for your intense impartial support
I don't hate nor decry
I am a poet since early 1950's
with a current times mind galore
so I have my own mind
not on rustic rails
I wander all over the universe

my teachers all said this guy wanders
but could not correct and say why

so I took to my own heels
and rode the world

I compose with impartial diligence
yes am MISUNDERSTOOD mostly
and that's on my part
no failing
sad if others don't follow me
it's their shortcoming...

I am a pseudo poet
many trolls keep trailing

If I come out in the open
I assure myself a NOBEL

lol lol lol
Okay now all RFLOL..
LOVEDLY IS
A GENE of HUMOUR ONLY
born never to EXCEL openly
but after my life
LOVEDLY will live
poetry is not every one's cup of
coffee
or
tea!!!!
as you may like it to be

And I seem to remember I had the shits with you at the time when you threw a hissy fit because I refused to comment on one of your contest winning poems.

You know that at your best you are very good but your constant attention seeking behaviour shits me to tears.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Was it an end of something we thought was full of promise...nothing much has happened it appears since the eventual closure of the work shop...anyways it was a god learning experience for me irrespective of what emerges out of it..
...................................................................................................

raj (sublime_ocean)

You showed great skill in working with it.

It was a workshop and workshops end but Sunku doesn't have to.

Any progress on getting accreditation, Irene?

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

Hi Jess.
I am rock climbing this weekend. I will have a draft for FrogPond, soon perhaps next week. I wanted to distant myself from the subject a little bit to have a fresh look. I think I am ready to come back to my notes. Next week.

IRiz

author comment

x three lines into 3 paras
some r using more
any restrictions do let me know Irene
after your HILL TREK

You have got it right.

IRiz

author comment

For this short form is it expected that the title should also ideally [if not necessarily] be short [single word]?
...............................................................................................................................

raj (sublime_ocean)

Hi Raj,
i think you are right, but again i don't think we need strict rules on the matter.

i am more concern about aesthetics of Sunku.
remember people wrote some poems with killings and gutters?
what do you think about that?

IRiz

author comment

I agree with you on both counts..about the title and aesthetics..i am working on both and recently posted 2 more Sunkus over the past couple opf days....looks like you may not have had time to read them
....................................................................................................................................

raj (sublime_ocean)

I will check them out soon.
I am still thinking about Sunku.
Something makes me feel we are not completely ready to write an essay.

IRiz

author comment

take your time IRiz..no rush...i know you are multi tasking and working on many fronts....I am just making a small effort to showcase the form to encourage others...
........................................................................................

raj (sublime_ocean)

Thank you

IRiz

author comment
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