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Community discussion - AC proposal: The Lab (June 2018)

Note: the AC has reposted this in a new thread: https://www.neopoet.com/forum/25082. Comments are closed on this old thread.

Original text:

This is the discussion thread for the recent proposal by the AC (https://www.neopoet.com/community/news/proposal-the-lab)

“The Lab”

[Note - this first paragraph was updated on June 23rd]

This is proposal to create a different and unique workshop called "the Lab".  Poems posted in the Lab will also appear on the Stream, but with special status.  They will be by poets who have offered thoughtful comments to submissions in the Lab  (praise, critical reviews, suggestions etc). The goal is to encourage responses, which is the best reward and feedback all of us poets can receive from an online workshop.  The lab is open to all.  Here's how it works:

Details:

About “The Lab”

  • Poems in The Lab would still go to the stream and would act like any other poem. Neopoet would try to make poems in The Lab especially visible however - this may take the form of color coding, a badge, a special front page block that shows several recent submissions to The Lab, etc.

Submitting to “The Lab”

  • In exchange for 3 “credits” a member can submit to “The Lab” – to be detailed later in this proposal
  • Submissions to The Lab will only be allowed every few days (initially once per 5 days; threshold can be changed by a vote of the AC).
    • The existing 1 (non workshop) poem per 23 hours limit will be unchanged – for a submission to The Lab, essentially the more restrictive of the two would apply. For example, after posting a poem to The Stream, one could post to The Lab a day later. A day after that, one wouldn’t be able to post to the Lab again, however one could still submit a second poem to The Stream.
  • There will be a checkbox in the current "submit poem" page that will opt a poem into "The Lab" (near the options for contests, workshops, co-author)

“Credits”

  • When members post comments (on any poem – including poems in The Stream or in specific workshop), they get 1 credit per comment/critique
    • Exceptions:
      • Posting a comment on your own poem
      • In addition, the AC may vote internally on new conditions from time to time, such as a word count limit
  • Over time, the AC will define the qualitative and quantitative (such as word count) eligibility for a credit - initially the bar will be set fairly low (i.e. all substantial comments are eligible)
    • In cases of specific and repeated abuse, the AC can restrict a member's eligibility to submit to The Lab, either temporarily or permanently
  • In time [this may not be part of the initial implementation due to the complexity] Advocates (and the submitter for a particular comment) can see if a comment has earned a credit. Advocates can "downvote" a comment if it is deemed not eligible according to qualitative criteria set by the AC - a certain number of downvotes will cause that comment to lose eligibility (and the owner to lose a credit)
  • Each existing member starts with a blank slate: zero credits. Comments start accruing credits when the proposal is implemented
  • Each new member starts with a number of credits to be determined by the AC - initially, as an experiment, we will test 3 credits, and will then test zero credits, to see how this affects new member retention

 

[Update: we've added an example timeline that showing a member, who is trying to aggressively post as much as possible, would be limited by both the "23 hour" rule and the 5 day timer - this illustration assumes the member is not limited by credits] Example timeline: https://www.neopoet.com/sites/default/files/faq/TheLab-TheStream-Timelin...

apologies Richard but the intention was not to be vague but to cite an example...
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raj (sublime_ocean)

I think raj's point is very valid and complaints against irrelevant or perhaps inappropriate or even abusive comments should somehow allow to easily have their points removed.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

I do appreciate that there is always a flip side / exception. My bringing this possibility to notice is not with an intent to question the merits of qualification norm for The Lab or put pressure on the administrators by making their work unduly laborious...if Andrew and his team do not find an easy way out to tackle such situations we will take them in our stride and move on...ultimately we need to look at the bigger picture and ignore such aberrations.. hope this clarifies my intent...
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raj (sublime_ocean)

I agree, we just can't have people
dismissing points because they don't
agree with an assessment of their poem,
even when we may disagree with the
tone ...
Because of situations like these, I believe
we will need to settle disputes with AC,
whoever they may be at the time. Depending
on how often there are complaints, we may
even need a special complaint block that
will ensure a quicker response.

author comment

to see if there is any information / development/update about The Lab
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raj (sublime_ocean)

looks like nothing much is being reported about this plan since July 2018...hopefully not aborted..
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raj (sublime_ocean)

This project has not been abandoned,
we are only a few so please be patient.

author comment

and this has been said but needs to
be underlined ... this still depends on
member participation, you all should be
giving each other thorough critiques now,
or attempting to.

author comment

the lab effort? Not really sure what
that means but yes, the lab will continue
to evolve and may require new and improved
rules to keep some order ... did you have
specific details in mind?

author comment

Rules are because of the less than
honorable among us, so yes, there
will be some. It goes without saying
that in the lab critique is the center
but I think if a member doesn't participate,
they should be bounced back to stream,
this hasn't been presented as of yet .

author comment

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