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Phase ll Primal Poetry

Cycling Being ~ read backward from right to left and reverse ~ continuing rhythm

BORN
is place from
inside out
spiraling
out inside
from place is
DEATH
is place from
inside out
spiraling
out inside
from place is
BORN
is place from
inside out
spiraling
out inside
from place is
DEATH
is place from
inside out
spiraling
out inside
from place is
BORN

Review Request (Intensity): 
I want the raw truth, feel free to knock me on my back
Review Request (Direction): 
What did you think of my title?
How was my language use?
What did you think of the rhythm or pattern or pacing?
How does this theme appeal to you?
How was the beginning/ending of the poem?
Is the internal logic consistent?
Editing stage: 
Workshop: 

Comments

from right to left? From the bottom or the top? It doesn't seem to make sense either way. Not sure of what you hoped to show.~ geezer.
.

Please acknowledge critique and comments.
They are a vital part of our community!
Critique or comment today!

my obviously confusing remarks. I meant to say as a continuum, the words may be read in a conventional way (left to right) from top to bottom and then at the 'end' (which I'd hoped to show doesn't exist) start with the word 'BORN', then read each line backward (right to left) up to the top, i.e. 'BORN is place from inside out spiraling out inside place is DEATH', etc. The word order should match. They did for me during the drumbeat. It became a simple chant. As I read it now, I think the word ‘from’ just makes it more confusing. In my mind’s eye, these words made sense as they formed into a spiraling circle, visually similar to a DNA strand. Sadly, I missed the mark in translating it to readers. Thank you for your critique. It was absolutely on spot.

Respectfully,

Marthalyn

author comment

or even interpretation.
I'm getting contrived.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

I wrote a lengthy response to Geezer whose reaction was similar to yours. I think I may have misunderstood the instructions for Phase ll since my response was to listen to the drums and let that sound introduce a new vision to be written in poetic form. My intention was based on the simplest presentation of a poem. Life and death cycle came into view and I wrote it in a "contrived" way, as you stated in your critique. However, my poem was not even presented well enough to translate its meaning to the reader. This one obviously missed its mark.

Respectfully,

Marthalyn

author comment

but "we will introduce some simple direction but again letting go as far as possible, letting our subconscious throw up imagery", nah, I think you were afraid of being blinded, like I said on Facebook-
"Poets, if they regard rules at all, regard them in rather the manner of an enraged bull in a china shop.
Instructions are things that will burn a poet's eyes out if they even look at them.
Organising poets is like herding wildcats in a thunderstorm."
[grins]
We want our conscious brains to intervene as little as possible, just describing the images and emotions. In a way it's a big trust exercise- trusting our own subconscious.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

You did not give bad instructions. As a poet, as a human being, I do not easily trust. I do trust my intuition and I live by it, but to allow my subconscious to be revealed, well, just the thought of it feels like death.

Marthalyn

author comment

or a predilection for repeatedly raping the cat,
you are allowed to censor yourself. [smiles]

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

I like this stream; It is like a palindrome poem; novel in its interchangeability

I don't see it as contrived I see it as a poem of suggestion and inversions Sponge brained as one may be after a drumming session or a long meditation The poem is itself a purgation of the concrete inferring multidimensionality as in down side up and upside down You float; points of reference are lost: I think this piece could use some breaks structurally albeit you specified them in capitals

BORN
is place from
inside out
spiraling
out inside
from place is

DEATH
is place from
inside out
spiraling
out inside
from place is

BORN
is place from
inside out
spiraling
out inside
from place is

DEATH
is place from
inside out
spiraling
out inside
from place is
BORN

Further I find myself always wanting sonic inventions and here's why

If a poet is writing a narrative if it doesnt break the heart its feels like another ho hum poem
But when sonically smart as in the play of vowels it takes language into the realm of art
EX:
I dangle from a nightingale floor Her silent eyes and her soft foam-white brow

In your poem you exploit the dimensional aspects of space; for me to much of a one trick pony because it doesnt touch the sensations of those dimensions and that in my opinion remains critical to poetry, so it keeps me at a distance I like that it is simple in its construction but to hold my interest it needs to be more complex in its effect

Best Z

You seem to have no grasp off the effect this particular process can produce.
Why not try it yourself, it involves letting go, surrenderiing to the process and the results quite distinctly emerge from the subconscious, waking dreaming, not a attempt to compose a poem.

We report what we see and feel, that's all.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

Jess; with all due respect you are mistaken; Im an initiate of the Royal Yoga. Ive meditated deeply for going on 50 yrs and left this 4 dimensional world many times and concurrently been a practioner of hermeticism for 30. The work I do is all about the subconscious and its link to superconsciousness My life has been all about interfacing with the hidden. Drums are a means, and in and of themselves an externalization at best that must be accompanied by the inner work which you have little mention of even in passing, that I've read

Again with all due respect; in my extensive experience transformational meditative work requires a special and hidden knowledge that transcends guided meditations, drum flutes or didgeridoos. Further while the exoteric aspects remain expressed differently in different cultures; in my opinion the core of the work (esoteric) if really meaningful remains the same to all cultures as sure as the breath of life
In the final analysis; my experience dictates that in no way can one be the judge of another persons inner experience. This I know from every night meetings 7 days a week for over a decade in the company of sannyasa's

In the final analysis I look only to the poem as It cues me to the issues of writing; not the souls passage or state of evolution unless in direct consultation and a careful study of their soul map ie esoteric astrology

I say all this because I think it is unfair of you to be so caviler about judging what others are doing spiritually When one is in deep meditative state they can not write The writing is done body sense centered in thought process One doesnt write notes in an altered state unless channeling or possessed

Altered State Poem
…….
…….
…..
….
…..
Huh

Telling ain't selling..... If you care what people experience why don't you ask members directly about their experience and maybe they will open up
We are here voluntarily, not to be beaten dogs! Ask yourself are you a wise meditative facilitator or about being annoyed and bossy when you say things like ….You seem to have no grasp off the effect this particular process can produce..... So I ask you Jess why don't you give us a full explication of drum induced meditative higher seeing, the illusion of reality simulations and the hologram of consciousness ?

Best Z

Bullshit.

I am not trying to educate people into the mysteries. I am offering a distinct, specific technique that activates visual memories of the brain. It simply stimulates visual areas of the brain and memory not normally accessible and provides a technique inducing a highly visionary state.

I am not interested in hermeticism, here. Drums are a means to induce visual imagery that have no need of inner, mystical work. It is a poetic exercise allowing participants to to reach hitherto inaccessible parts of their mind to find new ways to express themselves.

Yes, look only to the poem as it cues us to the issues of writing; not the souls passage or state of evolution. No soul map or esoteric astrology.

I am not judging what others are doing spiritually, I'm give them a new poetic tool.

I care what people experience and ask members directly about their experience. That's all. And it is working expect for a few, like you who refuse to take the simple exercise and try to control and manipulate it to your own agenda, ignoring what I have said quite clearly and trying to control and manipulate it into a transcendental, mystical journey. It isn't so please stop.

If you can pull your ego into line, just sit in a comfy chair, relax, breathe, clear your mind, close your eyes and listen to the drumming.
Then you don't see blackness, you see colours and forms.
Let go, don't try to think, just watch. The colours and forms will resolve into images. You are in a waking dream. When it is finished just write down what you saw and felt without trying to make poetry.

If you can do that you will learn something about poetry.
Please cut the mystical crap, it is an irrelevant distraction.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

Hermeticism is an equivalent and trance work to your approach and others ie a doctrine that affirms the existence of a single, true theology that is present in all religions and that was given by God or self effulgent source to man in antiquity.

You apparently think they are different and deem one more valuable or interesting and the other To me this is a case of misapprehending the essential commonality ie universalism of all meditative and ritual work. All have exactly the same goal of integrating the higher and lower in other words healing the dual nature with in us The super consciousness emerges through the subconscious not through the conscious mind which is facilitated by the function of trance or meditation
Some cultures do it with drums; some with body movements and sonorous sounds as in dance like the dervish dance masters or the raising of energies through invocations While there are important differences in the outer sense they remain relatively superficial distinctions beyond the epistemological / cultural and linguistic differences Hermeticism facilitates a process of letting go no less then drums If you are interested in a specific methodology religion dogma we part ways If you are interested in the pursuit of multidimensional consciousness we share something

I listened to the drums my friend But if think its all about a trove of images why not just imbibe Ayahuasca or shrooms They are also instrumental in shamanic seeing and hella more powerful; the remembrance of which would induce some real transformational writing

Hermeticism is an equivalent and trance work to your approach and others
True

a doctrine that affirms the existence of a single, true theology that is present in all religions and that was given by God or self effulgent source to man in antiquity.
Not true, at least in this context.

You apparently think they are different and deem one more valuable or interesting and the other
They Are Similar But Neither Has Greater Value When Used For Purpose.

To me this is a case of misapprehending the essential commonality ie universalism of all meditative and ritual work.
Agreed, There Is A Universality To All Mediative And Ritual Work, but here we are being ratbag poets and imposing our individuality.

All have exactly the same goal of integrating the higher and lower in other words healing the dual nature with in us The super consciousness emerges through the subconscious not through the conscious mind which is facilitated by the function of trance or meditation
Exactly

Some cultures do it with drums; some with body movements and sonorous sounds as in dance like the dervish dance masters or the raising of energies through invocations
Yes

While there are important differences in the outer sense they remain relatively superficial distinctions beyond the epistemological / cultural and linguistic differences
Strongly disagree. The particular form of shamanic trance is far more versatile in application.

Hermeticism facilitates a process of letting go no less then drums
No less, no more, but significantly different.

 If you are interested in a specific methodology religion dogma we part ways
We Would Certainly Part Ways But I Have No Interest In Any Religion Dogma

If you are interested in the pursuit of multidimensional consciousness we share something.
Yes, where we differ slightly is that i maintain that the shamanic trance form is particularly flexible and almost inherently suited to poetry.

I listened to the drums my friend But if think its all about a trove of images why not just imbibe Ayahuasca or shrooms
two reasons. The shamanic process lends itself readily to poetry whereas the drug enhanced experience is more chaotic, the drugs can be difficult to obtain and, above all, hallucinogens can cause severe psychotic breaks in some people.

They are also instrumental in shamanic seeing and hella more powerful; the remembrance of which would induce some real transformational writing
Yes, And That Would Lessen The Shared Experience Of The Group

 

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

a doctrine that affirms the existence of a single, true theology that is present in all religions and that was given by God or self effulgent source to man in antiquity.
Not true, at least in this context.

The context is perceptual, closed or open.... Thats context for you and perhaps what is distinct from one soul to another
…...

There Is A Universality To All Meditative And Ritual Work, but here we are being ratbag poets and imposing our individuality.

Thats what poems are for....as individuals writers we are free, yet this prompt asks us to pull in the wild horses of our minds, which is what makes us individuals, or as you may prefer rat bag poets and join in a group activity that requires that we focus on the universal and lose ourselves in the primal and then translate what may be unutterable into the complex task of crafted verse

…...

While there are important differences in the outer sense they remain relatively superficial distinctions beyond the epistemological / cultural and linguistic differences
Strongly disagree. The particular form of shamanic trance is far more versatile in application.

Yes it is more versatile; but is versatility the issue here and is drumming necessarily better or more more effective then chanting., sonorous invocations or meditation upon the hidden God?

…..
Yes, where we differ slightly is that I maintain that the shamanic trance form is particularly flexible and almost inherently suited to poetry.

Not to me in spite of their versatility which I find beside the point; and here's why. While drums produce entrancing rhythms the hidden remains within us The inner work supersedes all external support systems like chanting drums soundings etc although they may support it if one is initiated

…..

The shamanic process lends itself readily to poetry whereas the drug enhanced experience is more chaotic, the drugs can be difficult to obtain and, above all, hallucinogens can cause severe psychotic breaks in some people.

We agree there; but that is actually what the authentic shaman does He breaks with this 3 dimensional and linear time reality, travels through the abyss towards interrelations with aliens, the dead, and a multitude of other realities and their beings ie a separate reality. In the Jewish religion you are not suppose to study Kabbala until you are over 40 under threat of madness What happens to a one dimensional mind when confronted with a 26 dimensional reality or even 5 dimensions for that matter

In spite of your judgments about who lets go ...a tyrannical egocentric commentary on your own impulse to controll

pray the process is slow, that when time
confronts us with its choices, the numinous wisdom will teach me
when to hold on, and when to let go.

Best Z

This work was not what I wanted it to become. The simplicity was intentional, however, I got stuck in it. Multidimensionality is exactly what I was aiming for by using a simple method of expression. You are quite right that it did not create a connection with any sensation. As I review it now, even I am bored with it. Thank you for your critique.

Respectfully,

Marthalyn

author comment

Precisely. You, Zebra and Stan are allowing your experience and preconceptions to try and control the outcome.

Let this simple technique show you something new.

cheers,
Jess
Neopoet is a workshop. Poets take the time to read and think about your work and offer suggestions.
There is no obligation to make any changes however please acknowledge critique and comments.

I can sort of relate to the spiraling. I say sort of because an objective at least for me would be a pulling. Like waiting on the edge of being alive to being pulled somewhere else, someplace new. Like a dream yet fully aware. I dream a lot and am often in wonder of where in the hell the images or movies come from. Not my life. Perhaps I should allow myself to fall past the drumming and into wherever I go. But for now I'm working with a Mantra and staying aware. The drumming helps with that awareness.
I think your writing is cool because it builds around the experience of spiraling. I can see and feel that. Spiraling up or down, falling, shot out, being sucked out, pushed out ...I think there are many variations of how the point of being in one reality than suddenly another could be expressed.
A complicated structure ... well done.
Later,

~Mark~

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I appreciate your personal experience and perception that relates to this piece. I think you saw what I was trying to do but, unfortunately, I never got out of the chant. In my mind's eye, the image was 3 dimensional, like that slinky (toy) from years ago. In its stretched out version, the coil was similar to the image I tried to present. It is simplistic, but that was intentional. I would have liked to combine the words following that slinky trail to create a word/art image.

Thanks again for your critique,

Marthalyn

author comment
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