About workshops

Workshops on Neopoet are groups that meet for a certain period of time to focus on a certain aspect of poetry. Each workshop participant is asked to critique all the other poems submitted into a workshop. A workshop leader helps coordinate -- they set the agenda, give participants feedback on whether their submissions and critique are at they level expected of them, and after the workshop is over, give feedback to participants. 

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Super Quickie Critique

Status: 
Program description/goal: 

Description: A quick exercise in Critique

Leader: weirdelf (Jess)
Moderator(s): Volunteers please.

Objectives: To practice giving constructive feedback on bad poetry.

Level of expertise: Open to all

Subject matter: This is widely regarded as one of the worst poems of all time. For this workshop simply pretend that it has been posted by a Neopoet member and write a critique.
We will then critique each others critiques.

The Tay Bridge Disaster
by William McGonagall

Beautiful Railway Bridge of the Silv’ry Tay!
Alas! I am very sorry to say
That ninety lives have been taken away
On the last Sabbath day of 1879,
Which will be remember’d for a very long time.

’Twas about seven o’clock at night,
And the wind it blew with all its might,
And the rain came pouring down,
And the dark clouds seem’d to frown,
And the Demon of the air seem’d to say-
“I’ll blow down the Bridge of Tay.”

When the train left Edinburgh
The passengers’ hearts were light and felt no sorrow,
But Boreas blew a terrific gale,
Which made their hearts for to quail,
And many of the passengers with fear did say-
“I hope God will send us safe across the Bridge of Tay.”

But when the train came near to Wormit Bay,
Boreas he did loud and angry bray,
And shook the central girders of the Bridge of Tay
On the last Sabbath day of 1879,
Which will be remember’d for a very long time.

So the train sped on with all its might,
And Bonnie Dundee soon hove in sight,
And the passengers’ hearts felt light,
Thinking they would enjoy themselves on the New Year,
With their friends at home they lov’d most dear,
And wish them all a happy New Year.

So the train mov’d slowly along the Bridge of Tay,
Until it was about midway,
Then the central girders with a crash gave way,
And down went the train and passengers into the Tay!
The Storm Fiend did loudly bray,
Because ninety lives had been taken away,
On the last Sabbath day of 1879,
Which will be remember’d for a very long time.

As soon as the catastrophe came to be known
The alarm from mouth to mouth was blown,
And the cry rang out all o’er the town,
Good Heavens! the Tay Bridge is blown down,
And a passenger train from Edinburgh,
Which fill’d all the peoples hearts with sorrow,
And made them for to turn pale,
Because none of the passengers were sav’d to tell the tale
How the disaster happen’d on the last Sabbath day of 1879,
Which will be remember’d for a very long time.

It must have been an awful sight,
To witness in the dusky moonlight,
While the Storm Fiend did laugh, and angry did bray,
Along the Railway Bridge of the Silv’ry Tay,
Oh! ill-fated Bridge of the Silv’ry Tay,
I must now conclude my lay
By telling the world fearlessly without the least dismay,
That your central girders would not have given way,
At least many sensible men do say,
Had they been supported on each side with buttresses,
At least many sensible men confesses,
For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed.

Length: 
14 days
Number of participants (limit): 
50 people
Skill level: 
Date: 
Sunday, September 11, 2016 to Tuesday, September 27, 2016
Short description: 
Have a free shot at a terrible poem.

Comments

Even before I've added you to the participants list you can post your critique and start critiquing others' critiques via replies.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

Your critique of the poem was good but as the whole thing was written quite a while back and about a place in Scotland obviously it needs you to research the place as an exercise.
Here I shall do it for you:-
Tay Bridge disaster
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopaedia..
For William McGonagall's poem on this subject, see
The Tay Bridge Disaster.

Tay Bridge disaster.
Date
28 December 1879 --Time 7:16 pm
Location:- Dundee, Country:- Scotland. UK
Rail line:- Edinburgh to Aberdeen Line.
Operator:- North British Railway.
Cause:- Structural failure
Statistics:- Trains 1 -- Passengers -- 70
Deaths:- 75 estimate, 60 known dead. Injuries:- 0

List of UK rail accidents by year,
The Tay Bridge disaster occurred during a violent storm on 28 December 1879.
When the first Tay Rail Bridge collapsed while a train was passing over it from Wormit to Dundee, killing all aboard.

The bridge—designed by Sir Thomas Bouch—used lattice girders supported by iron piers, with cast iron columns and wrought iron cross-bracing.
The piers were narrower and their cross-bracing was less extensive and robust than on previous similar designs by Bouch.
Bouch had sought expert advice on "wind loading" when designing a proposed rail bridge over the Firth of Forth; as a result of that advice he had made no explicit allowance for wind loading in the design of the Tay Bridge.
There were other flaws in detailed design, in maintenance, and in quality control of castings, all of which were, at least in part, Bouch's responsibility.
Bouch died within the year, with his reputation as an engineer ruined.
Future British bridge designs had to allow for wind loadings of up to 56 pounds per square foot (2.7 kPa). Bouch's design for the Forth Bridge was not used.

The river Tay is a well known river in Scotland but it is not a great river and this was probably the most news that ever came out about it.
There are two bridges over the same river now, one rail and the new one a road ..
Cast Iron was used a great deal in those days and the structure type, we still have a few cast iron bridges as historic pieces here, look up the type and you will be surprised at the number..
Sometimes we have to check on things, and expand our knowledge of other countries.
Take care and keep writing, Yours Ian.

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

mostly we don't have the time to spend this much time on even a long poem.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

Though I'm mentally exhausted I'll try. My critique needs tuning

*Collaborative Poetry Workshop* American Version of Japanese Poetry ~ Renga ~ Haiku, Senyru, Tanka.

Neopoet Community

Add me to the list of participants, I am at the moment very busy with a few problems so my critique will be delayed.
The poem was bad so I will need a little time to give a good comment.
Take care my Bru, Yours as always Ian.

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

I'll be back .... :)

'Each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
shall draw the Thing as he sees It, for the God of Things as They are.'
(Rudyard Kipling)

please critique Mark's critique, even if before posting your own.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

BRIDGE ON THE RIVER KWAI

.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

This poem was to my mind written in a way where though the theme may have been good,
The author degraded the loss of so many people, and the incompetence of the designer, to a prosy type of write to make this tragedy into a rhyming, what I would term as childlike poetry. Even at my level of writing I would hope that I could write this better to mean something to the reader, where the people that lost their lives could be remembered with respect,
Yours Ian.T

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

Sorry I was back in 1880 and the critique was on that poet not one of our new writers, when I have time I will amend and write as I would for a new poet.
This one just annoyed me in his way of writing..
Had it been a newby my critique would have been much softer..
Yours Ian.

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

Here is one I wrote on a very bad situation:-

Can we really see?

It is with heavy heart that searches the skies
It is with love that I realise, you have gone from me
We sit in Ivory towers, safe from all we have done
No damn it, we think we do,
we have just seen it is not true.

It was our towers that took us down,
even our God may frown
He would ask of you, what of your fellow man,
did you see him?
Do you build and live like this,
so that they can see you there?
Do they mean so much to them,
in other world’s you see now and then.
Are we wrong that they should, take them,
and you away from us?

I cry for you, oh my lost family,
I cry just for you, I saw you there
I also live in my Ivory tower,
needing to seek the words of a God

It is not my fault, or can I lie to myself,
that I do no wrong
Now I must think that this must never happen again.
The tears that flow must wash the mind,
so that it can see.

See the rest of humanity,
in every corner of this world just so.
So that it never repeats this terrible dream
of things seen gone by.

It is no dream, that they are gone,
it is a reality, it has been.
Hold me close as my tears do fall,
I saw it all.

Now let me mourn for time to heal,
the wounds are deep.
But let me rebuild all new things
with washed tears, and brave heart.

Clean buildings for the whole family of man,
it is hard but I can rebuild.
Washed ways, that hold no grudges, in any land,
build with my washed hands.

Let me build a new world,
please let me build, so that all can see
A world that has new washed Ivory towers,
for all of us to be.

Tower’s that all humanity that see,
then can hold forever in their mind
Saying they built these towers,
for you and me, and mankind.

In a new world?

Mark this was written a few years ago when the world was shocked by the attack on the twin towers, hope my write was more thoughtful than Williams.
Yours as always Ian..

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

it would have to be a new member because you don't know any of their other work.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

Firstly welcome to Neopoet, here we learn to write and our workshops are excellent, the critique you receive will aid your learning.
As we are hard in some critique please remember we are all learning
A great theme but the way you have written it is coming over as cold, the rhymes and play with words seems to have sidestepped the feelings of those left behind.
Try to feel the way they felt as their loved ones perished.
We don't have to be soft on the words but we are dealing with real people..
Take care when writing that you separate fact from fiction,
Not sure how old you are but the simplicity of some lines could do with a gentler approach, just keep writing.
Read some of the classics and modern poetry there you will find mostly the tops in poetic writing, but they had to start somewhere,
Yours Ian.T.

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

william..I tend to find the use of Tay
a tad repetitive old sport.
otherwise the rest is a remarkable
note of the great railroad malady!

THANK u!

The word malady in your critique seems to be strange, as it describes an illness.
The Tay Rail bridge was a disaster as was this poem, I did put on my early comment a rundown of the disaster and what happened.
Due to bad construction, and the weather at the time, it destroyed the bridge, the people on the train were all killed, it was one of the worst rail disasters the UK has had in its history.
Hope you don't mind me saying about malady..
Yours as always.. Ian.

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

Here's my critique of this:

The first thing to note is, Jess introduced this as "widely regarded as one of the worst poems of all time." Which already forces me to look at it uniquely. Which is unfair from the start, but not entirely avoidable in the real world.

The poem suffers from very poor use of rhyme to convey the story. It easily reminds me of some of my earlier work that still makes me cringe. The poet, in trying to rhyme, sacrifices the power of the narrative and ruins it as much as the storm ruined the bridge and train and men.

"Beautiful Railway Bridge of the Silv’ry Tay!
Alas! I am very sorry to say
That ninety lives have been taken away
On the last Sabbath day of 1879,
Which will be remember’d for a very long time."

The train wreck begins in line two, which feels so out of spirit with what you'd expect from a tragic poem that it might inspire laughter. Lines three and four work well, but the poem dies again in the last line of the first verse.

Generally, the work, if it was done by someone known for excellent poetry, could pass as a parody of poetry. The fact that this isn't intended as a parody is quite unfortunate.

No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. - TS Eliot

http://www.wsgeorge.com/

critique of William's critique, please.

If we get bored all covering this poem perhaps someone could suggest another really bad poem?

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

engineers...the constructors were ill in their logic of structure
until over time they got it straight
But...nature wins..eventually..
its supposed too...

We had a bridge collapse in Ontario
Nipigon....Loosened bolts and
something about the design
Modern world and a simple thing
like a bridge falls down

go figure....

guess they were Ill..

I think William...U mention the word
Tay...to stay stuck in peoples minds
My earlier comment on your
well structured work was that
U mentioned it too many times...
But funny....Your poem
stays very vivid in memory
the frequency of the repetition
so great!

thank U!

and Thank U Ian

!

To the edited version of Esker's comment.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

thanks friend,
we let our own stuff get in the way.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

Will wait a little while to see if anyone else joins in then close this workshop.
We need to be willing and able to offer suggestions.
It is wrong to suggest that any attempt at poetry is beyond critique.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

sanitized ..

that need to comment on the Tay Bridge Disaster poem, have I to remind you of a few things:-
The Grisly bear does not snap at the wolf.
The dingo does not snap at the Inland taipan
They treat each other with respect, and know that there is a place for everything to coexist.
This is going to have a good reply as all we have here is the Adder and wild cat to contend with but if the hat fits wear it with pride.
That's the end to this, good workshop it has produced a great response from a good cross section (cross being the underlying word)
Remember to love all you meet it may give you Brownie points for later, and know that I love you all if you are lonely,
Yours Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti..

.
Give critique to help keep Neopoet great.
Unconditional love to you all.
"Learn to love yourself first"
Yours as always, Ian.T, Sparrow, and Yenti

Seldom with such vitriol.
I'm learning and trying to make amends for when I fail.
Some of us new to actual critique over-react.
We can all learn and be brave for the sake of others.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

Any further comments are still welcome.

Any suggestions for the next one?

I'm thinking meter.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

Mark, your comment tells me that you desperately need to learn the difference between rhythm and meter.

cheers,
Jess
A new workshop on the most important element of poetry-
'Rhythm and Meter in Poetry'
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/rhythm-and-meter-poetry

author comment

alliteration is clunky, the assonance is off, everything about it reads like a List Poem while trying to be something else. It is bad.

Add me if you would be so kind.

I Did like the build/ killed rhyme. But far too many of the end line rhymes were repeated far too many times...................stan

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