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Submitted by Paul Butters. on 28 September 2008 - 6:27am.
Looking at a 19 year old’s poems recently reminded me what a struggle poetry writing was at first. Recall making myself write in iambics, which I sometimes still do. More and more I compose line by line, using Shorter lines for emphasis etc., and just get freer and freer. Am relieved to hear folk LIKE the ‘content’ of my verses and are not fazed by all this ‘freedom’ of form. Have written a lot of ‘religious’ stuff recently but may well turn my attention more to space, both ‘outer’ and ‘inner’, from now on. Inner emotions especially. In other words I find myself going more and more for “subtance” rather than “form”. Wonder if others find the same.
I notice my poems are more
I notice my poems are more and more *empty* of words and thus *full(er)* of meaning. Perhaps a bit egotistical…however, it’s all about the *poet* and the poem. lol.
~A
At first I misread you
and thought you meant I, (ME), was being egotistical etc. - then I realised you were (I think) talking about yourself. Your message I take is just to “Be Yourself” whatever you write. Appreciated. Paul.
Misread? Well yes and no.
Misread? Well yes and no. Poets may as well admit (whilst joining 12-step programs
to the contrary) that we are HUGE in ego. As Whitman eloquently said: “I contain multitudes”.
~A
OK I admit it!
That’s why I majored in English Lit rather than geography or history or indeed a science. Actually Geography was my best subject results-wise but becoming a top cartographer or anthropologist or whatever had far less appeal than the prospect of becoming a “great writer”. Wasted 10 years as a teacher through this dream. Serves me right! Guilty as charged. However, it does annoy me how CELEBRITIES like Jordan and David Beckham get richly published while real writers get nowhere. Nuff Said. Cheers. Paul.
I suppose there is method
I suppose there is method behind that madness, Paul. There is only one Jordan and Beckman and millions paying tickets to see them play and then hang on every word in hero worship. Just like there are millions of writers, only a few that make millions such as Rowling and King. How many know Diaz, 2008 Pulitzer Prize winner for fiction? Probably more than know the winner for Poetry, Schultz.
You ever wonder if we’re stuck in a dead zone, with christine running a creepshow, the green mile of misery, needful things, dark visions nightmares and insomnia, four past midnight?
smile.
~A
"Jordan" is a reference to model... Katy Price
- who was top writer in the UK recently. Not to be confused with Michael Jordan or any other sportsmen or women. Same difference. Frankly Rowling leaves me cold too. Tolkein forever. Unfortunately my alleged talents lie in writing, table tennis and anything else that does NOT make money. Yet I’ll Try to smile! Cheers. Paul.
I take it as it comes
my muse is a slut, often off inspiring others while I am sad and lonely, then I get my own back by writing something from my head. I don’t think my poetry can be easily categorised, just stuggle to get this mess out of my head in some coherent form. Yes, like you, I have experimented with most of the poetic forms, now they spring to mind when needed, or not.
Look forward to more of your work.
cheers,
Jess
This is my second attempt at a reply.
I must have previewed only, as lunch was ready so I hurried and lost a long reply. Argh! What I said roughly was that experimenting with “forms” is not for me. Sonnets: Ugh! Dryden at school with his oxymorons: Ugh! Ala Beach Boys: “Help me Rondeau, Help help me Rondeau, bowm bom bowm bowm bowm….” It’s all “Soul” for me I have to say. Can’t be arsed with lots of intricate “forms”. Rock On. Let’s hope I post the B… properly this time. Cheers. Paul.
Awesome
I applaud the time you must put into study of poetics. Lewis Turco’s book of forms alone has hundreds of poetic forms and I have only found time to study a few dozen. In addition to the shear number of forms is the complexity of many. I found the study of quantum mechanics to be far easier than my attempts to come to terms with poetic forms of wales.
To be able to have most poetic forms pop into your head, “when needed,” is a noteworthy accomplishment.
My hat is off to you sir.
Bryan
Form vs. substance,
the endless debate. In art, I don’t think the two can be separated. Isn’t the art in picking the right form for the content? (Even in math, I remember getting graded on “elegance” of proofs, in addition to correctness.) I doubt you’re neglecting form (I hope not, anyway), in its broadest meaning. Maybe it’s become less conscious (thanks to your conscious devotion to it earlier in your writing.)
Slut? My muse abuses,
Slut? My muse abuses, misuses, amuses and rues me with HIS ineffable presence and absence.
Form vs substance is much like nature or nurture. One can’t delineate the pilgrim’s progress. Tis only in the eye of the reader/social entity. One (wo)man’s folly is another (wo)man’s ____________.
~A
Sluts and Don Juans-
Come, come … the muse isn’t a man or woman. It’s the ocean. Sometimes you’re floating, sometimes drowning, in the best case swimming and, too often, landlocked. ;)
Sometimes I lie there
- settling down to sleep… thinking of this or that…and suddenly something clicks and a good line or idea pops into my head. So I have to go scribble it down, then work on it when I get chance. Of course I have some half finished…. This must be Muse. Thing is, it drives me to write. Can’t help being a writer. Simple as that. P.
That's a good time for me, also.
I think the brain is a little less inhibited then.
Paul
I recently blew my mind out trying to reach a pinacle of reading/understanding and commenting and went into a mind fff aaah block. Yes block and have not fully come back. But what I did was join a contest
where I was pushing myself to write six new poems in a week. It helped and I saw that I could do it. Not that you are in a block and not that I have my mind back but on the mend. Thought I would share that. I myself look at content much moreso than structure. The poet I really believe is conveying a mesage (talent) in a form be it freeform (skill) What are you saying? Is the question I ask of a poem (the poet)
Anyhow, back to my brew and welcome once again :~)
Mark
Old bandits are really young rascals.
Talking of old bandits
- sometimes I feel like Zaphod on “Meerkat Manor”: he is old and widowed so they make him babysit tho still strong. He leaves the clan and seeks a new life. Have written a meerkat poem by the way. Again inscape\instress rather than external structure. Cheers. Paul.
Paul
Speaking for myself, I know I used to only write when something stirred an emotional response: being pissed off, an injustice, a dedication, etc. Lately, I’ve just been writing down my brain farts, and going from there. I have scribblings all over (actually they’re in a folder) about complete nonsense. Some of them will never see the light of day on this site. Some of them are inflammatory.
I’ll tend to pick and choose my postings, instead of putting them all here. Granted, the odd write will come through (Slip Slide was one of them - pulled that out my ass in a few minutes while listening to a Billy Joel song…) but, I’ve learned to be a lot more choosy now.
As for the whole quantity v. quality - it doesn’t matter to me. It’s your stuff, ultimately, and it shouldn’t matter what others think. As long as no one is too horribly offended, or it’s not a direct (or even subtle) attack on someone, then we could write 50 complete pieces of shit if we want. However, taking into consideration that this is a workshop site, the prior is not recommended….
Besides, one man’s shit is another man’s treasure. Outstanding thoughts, Paul.
~Jess K.
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“If you’ve ever emptied the back of your pickup truck by driving backward really fast and slamming on the brakes, you might be a redneck” - Jeff Foxworthy Bill Engvall: “that’s how we moved”